kuribo in Wonderland - [Game Over]

[KittyMo]

Brian ignored a question of mine

What question?

It's not very clear to me if you find anyone besides Axel's stances on election alignment indicative

Technically not a question but I was expecting a response

[SirCakez]

dz post_id=7942623 time=1464100568 user_id=15399 post_num=1093]

Everything above is incredibly nitpicky

What does this mean?

Using the "timeline of events" doesn't look like something town would bring up to push someone with

You don't think the order in which events happen is important, or you don't think it's something a town player would mention if they think there's an inconsistency based on the timeline?

Either way, you're wrong.

Like, where is any of this coming from?

... They were the three major candidates being discussed for the purposes of electing a king at the time.

And then I don't like this post because he's offering to voteslave himself in exchange for an Anti execution? That's not a townie offer and that's not a townie viewpoint on Anti, there's zero consideration of if he could flip town or not, just "execute him!"

Assuming I was completely serious in what I was saying, what does scum have to gain by doing that?

-http://www.dictionary.com/browse/nitpick
-I think it's ridiculous that you went, "ha, that doesn't line up with the order of events that your read came after mine" which is incredibly incosequential and minor.
-Not that, I mean the reasoning for each read.
-Forcing through a misexecution on a strong player and buddying.

dz post_id=7942638 time=1464101136 user_id=15399 post_num=1095]

Zakk has loads of bizarre and scummy posts with next to no actual scumhunting, for example his desire to hammer Kats in 235, his expression of not caring in 238, a random unexplained Godz townread in 297, and his basically hand waving of game events in 962.

None of these things are "scummy" - at best, they're neutral.

I suppose you could argue "next to no scum hunting" is "scummy" but even then, not really (even apart from the fact he's been V/LA most of the game now).

It's coasting, wanting a quickhammer, vague reads, take your pick, it's definitely scummy.

It's worth stating that Nacho was the one shot I was talking about that may have been controversial.

What's controversial about a Nacho shot? He's widely scumread...

Before the spiffeh wagon, katsuki, votes in this game meant nothing. The kings were just going to kill some random scummy-ish person, who even if scum, the scumteam probably wouldn't feel too sad losing. They would vote for whoever and pretend to do things knowing that there was no accountability.

The spiffeh wagon has direction and meaning. A vote for spiff is a vote for nacho's death. Unlike a normal game, however, there remained an alternative of voting for non-accountability.

If Nacho is scum, scum are voting to lynch a strong partner, or lynch elsewhere. If Nacho is town, scum are voting to be accountable for a town death, or voting to be non-accountable. In both cases, scum want to be on the Fate wagon (or at least off-wagon). This is also why I find it more than a little odd that Fate is calling out the Nacho wagon for being scummy, when there is little incentive for scum to be on it.

This doesn't make sense. Scum has to push mislynches at some point. Scum aren't just going to avoid wagons because they're on town.

They would still avoid electing spiffeh. I think you're stuck on "town must elect a town king, while scum want to elect a scum king." Scum want to elect a town king who lynches town. Town doesn't care who they elect as long as the elected player will lynch someone they think is scum.

My guess would be the scumteam is in {skybird, implosion, brian, nacho, zakk, kittymo, godz}. Might be willing to append fate.

This is what makes Gaiden such a good king. He will follow the Will of the People.
Join ME and WE shall ride Eternal in Valhalla, Shiny and Chrome.

Can you offer anything besides promises of justice and fairness?

[DrippingGoofball]

Zakk going VLA immediately after coming back from one makes my teeth itch. Just remember: even if he's telling the truth about personal problems, it doesn't necessarily make him town. I liked his early posting but some of that has been marred by his posting since.

Nacho I'm not super confident in, and I never got around to ISOing him yesterday. Probably will do tonight although super late. I feel like I can't quite put my finger on why I feel that way about his slot and id feel better about the read one way or another if I ISO him.

That's a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge scumtell

[Katsuki]

Katz- I agree completely. The Spiff-wagon speed is crazy.
But lets talk nacho. implosion wants that anyway.
You and I had the pleasure of reading him/kagami's brilliant scum comeback in my apartment. Is his tone and approach not exactly the same here?
I know I said the same thing in Gumball.. so it may be that the NEW (post camn-hiatus) nacho is just consistently thoughtful/political/semi-wall-posting. I am open to that idea. But my instinct is that he is scum here.

My tingling for Nacho began early on in the game, I think starting from the 200s-300s if I recall. My read here is independent from the past couple games that've occurred. I have my reasons for having scumpings, and they are more personal tells than share with the class tells.

I'll be happy if Nacho flips scum because that will settle the uneasiness I have for Godz, despite my enjoyment of his posts.

[SirCakez]

I'll be happy if Nacho flips scum because that will settle the uneasiness I have for Godz, despite my enjoyment of his posts.

How? Nacho has been supporting Godz, a Nacho scumflip would make my read on Godz worse, not better.

[SXTLHGaiden]

They would still avoid electing spiffeh. I think you're stuck on "town must elect a town king, while scum want to elect a scum king." Scum want to elect a town king who lynches town. Town doesn't care who they elect as long as the elected player will lynch someone they think is scum.

My guess would be the scumteam is in {skybird, implosion, brian, nacho, zakk, kittymo, godz}. Might be willing to append fate.

This is what makes Gaiden such a good king. He will follow the Will of the People.
Join ME and WE shall ride Eternal in Valhalla, Shiny and Chrome.

Can you offer anything besides promises of justice and fairness?

Water, Gas, and Bullets

[SXTLHGaiden]

Question: how many mafia are expected in a game this size?

[SirCakez]

They would still avoid electing spiffeh. I think you're stuck on "town must elect a town king, while scum want to elect a scum king." Scum want to elect a town king who lynches town. Town doesn't care who they elect as long as the elected player will lynch someone they think is scum.

My guess would be the scumteam is in {skybird, implosion, brian, nacho, zakk, kittymo, godz}. Might be willing to append fate.

This is what makes Gaiden such a good king. He will follow the Will of the People.
Join ME and WE shall ride Eternal in Valhalla, Shiny and Chrome.

Can you offer anything besides promises of justice and fairness?

Water, Gas, and Bullets

That's not what I meant

[Axelrod]

Implosion seems sincere in his belief that Nacho is Town (or maybe I should say, in his belief that the current arguments against Nacho are bad and that Nacho's behavior up to this point isn't scum-indicative).

So now I'm wondering if this sincere belief comes from his own inside knowledge that Nacho is Town. Because he's scum. Like that.

[kuribo]

Zakk going VLA immediately after coming back from one makes my teeth itch. Just remember: even if he's telling the truth about personal problems, it doesn't necessarily make him town. I liked his early posting but some of that has been marred by his posting since.

Nacho I'm not super confident in, and I never got around to ISOing him yesterday. Probably will do tonight although super late. I feel like I can't quite put my finger on why I feel that way about his slot and id feel better about the read one way or another if I ISO him.

That's a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge scumtell

Yuuuuuuup

And if he's town, he's a liability at best

[G[o]dz]

Nachomamma8 probably isn't scum. And no, Kastuki, I've never once thought he was in this game.

[Cephrir]

I will attempt to limit the degree to which my catch up posts are super annoying by keeping as much as I can in my head.

I think that hypoing the results is probably the way to go if that's how we want to do things. I'm not sure that's the way that we want to do things.

Come on Nacho, take a stand!

The real question: can I be fucked to fake cop results?
Right now, probably not. Tomorrow, sure.

I don't understand this post.

I might just be half asleep, but I had a REALLY hard time just now following his progression from "I don't know Fate so I don't trust him to be king," to "I found Fate's platform reasonable, I want him to be king," and back to "Katsuki should be king."

I was thinking Brian was town, but this fits my experience as well. However, I pretty frequently cannot be fucked to follow things like that due to limited attention span.

Wtf is hypo copping

cops claim results
non-cops make up results and claim those

Never shoot Antihero either

What on earth was so town about anything Anti had done up to this point? And yes, I know he's me.

dz post_id=7934775 time=1463812194 user_id=15399 post_num=323]

heres the thing


it's not enough to know what your kinda-sorta-reads are


we need to know WHY you have those reads

if it's just gut or whatever, say so, but "oh i'm not getting into it" and "oh, i can't explain it"

if you want to help, then help, but tossing out fence-sitty platitudes isn't helping the rest of us

Thank you for giving me tips. I will keep your advice in mind when giving reads in the future. I apologise for being so incompetent - please don't think ill of me because I am not explaining reads like others are.

A) I think everyone has gotten all up in Godz's grill basically for being a new player and kind of think he is town
B) But wow this is such a bizarre reaction.

Currently, my top suspects are SirCakez and implosion. The latter I suspect might just be a tonally weird person who doesn't post the way I would post. I expect these scumreads to change early and often.

[Cephrir]

dz post_id=7934841 time=1463814751 user_id=15399 post_num=343]"I have a could shots in mind" "Guess who" "It's zakk"

Yeah, I suppose if you squint, that could be interpreted as a scum read. My bad. You've given a read. Two if we count spiffeh. Now three if we count me. Zero town reads and zero explanations (wait, isn't it unhelpful to do that?) and, more to the point, zero scum hunting effort. If I'm being really, really, really generous, "does he always act like this?" is maybe scum hunting? Not really, though. So still, no.

You go off about how I'm not being helpful and shit. Where's your fucking explanations? You've been asked and refused to elaborate. Why are you "spamming" and "shitposting"?

dz post_id=7934850 time=1463815135 user_id=15399 post_num=345]Oh, actually, you did ask KittyMo why he thinks Skybird is a scum. Technically that could be construed as scum hunting, too. I guess it's not fair to say zero.

I think it's best to rephrase: the amount of scum hunting and the reads you've given is so pitiful in comparison to the amount of posts you've made that have nothing to do with finding scum that I think it's more likely you're not fighting for justice than not.

And now we've gone from weirdly apologetic to weirdly aggressive. I am not really sure what to do with this and will probably not post about it for a while.

[implosion]

The latter I suspect might just be a tonally weird person

I seem to get this a lot.

[G[o]dz]

I am not a newbie. I'll have you know this isn't my first game on site, man-with-Pumbaa-avatar.

[SirCakez]

Currently, my top suspects are SirCakez

oh boy I'm excited to hear this one

[Cephrir]

zakk is another good candidate for town.

Why? I'm viewing his contributions so far as null.

Zakk's posting feels devoid of content but to me it's more like the free and casual posting one makes when they know they're town

Zakk posts like that as scum though Kuribo. I was just scum with him in Killer Instinct and he posted similarly.

A lot of my reason was the same as kuribo's. In particular his "I'm willing to hammer katsuki." The only other thing was the timing of his godz townread. But actually looking back I'm willing to drop him as a townread in light of this.

zakk is another good candidate for town.

Do you have any scumreads?

I just gave spiffeh as one at the bottom of the previous page.

I also think kuribo is a decent scum candidate. I'm still not sure what to make of some of the inconsistencies in attitude he's shown (there's the one Fate mentioned, and one other that I don't remember atm). His apparent uncertainty as to whether to take the game seriously or HUEUEUEYAHIEO reads as potentially scum trying to gauge what kind of game it's going to be or generally just being self-conscious.

I think that is the opposite of scummy.

Nacho I'm finding it very difficult to buy that you are engaging Godz like this to make him a more electable King.

Meh.

I assume you are all going to make something out of Nacho's fixation on Godz. I don't really mind it. I believe I also saw someone insinuating they are scumbuddies, and to them I say I believe you're not attributing enough complexity to mafia players. People seem to have trouble figuring out the level of complexity with which scum actually play because I constantly find myself correcting people on this in both directions. I'm not saying they cannot be scumbuddies, only that this isn't really a fantastic reason for thinking so.

I think Godz is town. I think a newish scum would most likely not have made Nacho do this for three pages and would have let the point drop or admit he had a point somewhere instead of continuing to be stubborn, among other things.

[G[o]dz]

The way he intervened on Anti-Hero's behalf and his efforts over multiple posts to convince Godz of the error of his ways just felt weird and off.

Why?

And then, when asked to explain why he was doing it, he said he was strongly Townreading Godz and was concerned about making Godz a more electable King in the future. Which, again, is just a weird and strange thing to say.

Why would he say that as scum if he didn't really think that's how he'd approach the game as town? i.e. He could have easily just said something like, "I think they're town and I want to stop in-fighting," or something along those lines and nobody would have batted an eye.

Ultimately, either it's something he's saying because he genuinely believes it's a good thing to do as town in this setup or it's something he's saying as scum because he genuinely believes it's a good thing to do as town in this setup.

I've never really understood this as a point against him.

Usually you don't develop super-town reads on people who are making bad/misguided attacks.

This... isn't at all true.

He also has a decided lack of scumreads.

I do not really find this concerning. Perhaps it would be in a regular setup (and even then, not so much), but this isn't exactly a regular setup. Do you think he's the sort of player who would have difficulty pretending to scum hunt as scum?

I also do not really have an issue with him qualifying his Skybird read and I don't really see why you do.

It also feels like since he's been coming under suspicion he has dramatically reduced his posting.

I don't think this is game-specific.

I also don't like his saying he won't be claiming today, and he left without answering my question of "why" he won't claim if it looks like he's the target.

I am not sure what scum motivation you think there is here. Unless you're just suggesting that he's scum saying that because he thinks it benefits him in some way?

[Cephrir]

dz post_id=7943949 time=1464127236 user_id=15399 post_num=1164]I am not a newbie. I'll have you know this isn't my first game on site, man-with-Pumbaa-avatar.

You'll stop being a newbie when you stop posting like a newbie.

[Cephrir]

Currently, my top suspects are SirCakez

oh boy I'm excited to hear this one

You probably won't have to.

[G[o]dz]

If Nacho gets lynched today and flips town, I'll stop posting like a newbie, I suppose. But nobody really wants that to happen.

[Cephrir]

Page 25ish and realizing that my top townread has expressed a scumread on my only at all serious scumread.

VOTE: KittyMo

[kuribo]

Page 25ish and realizing that my top townread has expressed a scumread on my only at all serious scumread.

VOTE: KittyMo

And which scum read of Kitty's are you agreeing with because I'm having a hard time figuring out who she reads as scum

And how is she your top town read? And why are you even bothering to start a wagon on Kitty when there's almost no chance of her being made king?

[kuribo]

At page five she had like five posts, and she's your top town read?

[kuribo]

At page five she had like five posts, and she's your top town read?

EBWOP: page twenty-five I mean