With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Mini 1800 - Game Over
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GreyICE Fifty Shades
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Official Vote Count
karnos(5): qubixes, MechaGoomba, Persivul, Kappy, Dierfire
Wingback(3): Mathblade, MagnaofIllusion, The Bulge
MechaGoomba(1): karnos
Mathblade(1): Wingback
Kappy(1): Saru
Not Voting(2): Masquerade, JohnnyFarrar
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline: (expired on 2016-06-22 15:59:48)ShowThat which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil
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Read Mother Jones-
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MechaGoomba Goon
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Okay, if it was warning L-3 or L-2, I could see that. If it was warning L-1 soon after a vote count, maybe. But marking L-1 when vote counts are sparse and multiple people are rereading rather than following along? Really?
Even when about to be lynched, when you have your last chance to contribute to town, you're still so cautious!In post 586, karnos wrote:Of course, by saying this I might just push him to quickhammer me. I honestly hope I am wrong, I hope an actual town player is on my side here, but knowing I might get lynched in the near future I'd rather out this theory now rather than wait.
You're not saying "These people are the scum, lynch them tomorrow." You're saying "OK, you asked for reads? Here are reads."
Above all, that's what I really don't like. When you have a chance to contribute, you equivocate, but you are willing to reiterate your flimsy defences as much as you need to.
Do you believe Karnos would expect that your defense would be able to get the lynch off of him? If yes, why? If no, then why would he care whether you defended him or not?In post 597, Wingback wrote: Scum rarely push back against one of the only people defending them when almost everyone else is against them. They'd be ecstatic about having an ally.
@GreyICE: Apparently the votecounter registered Mathblade's vote for karnos as for Wingback because they capitalized the first letter?-
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MathBlade He/HimTechnical SupportHe/Him
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Wingback Goon
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I think that's up in the air. Maybe I succeed. Maybe I fail. But I'm still his last hope and burning that bridge isn't something scum would want to do but does make a lot of sense if he's town.In post 601, MechaGoomba wrote:Do you believe Karnos would expect that your defense would be able to get the lynch off of him? If yes, why? If no, then why would he care whether you defended him or not?-
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MechaGoomba Goon
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MagnaofIllusion has been killed Night 1
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Greetings. I haven't been following this game at all and only replaced in because GreyIce is a cool guy and I wanted to help him out.
As stated I'll be V/LA with tons of Father's Day stuff to do this weekend. Probably will be Monday til I can get a full read and catchup in. Luckily the thread is pretty short.
UNVOTE: Whoever I am voting"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.-
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MathBlade He/HimTechnical SupportHe/Him
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Dierfire Mafia Scum
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Dierfire Mafia Scum
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@Wingback
I thought that I'd telegraphed my vote on karnos--since my question in 393 (responding to his 382) I have been suspicious of the way that karnos seemed to be looking at a very superficial level for things that could be characterized as suspicious rather than trying to determine whether those things actually come from a Mafia mindset. At the very least, I think that my 492 and 557 should have given an indication of where I was going, and should weigh against your characterization of my vote.In post 569, Wingback wrote:@Dierfire, what made you abandon the push on Kappy and vote Karnos? Qubixes's case was there for a very long time. Why did you only now decide to verify Karnos's meta and put down a vote?
More than Dierfire's vote, I'm far more interested in what Mathblade thought was so awesome about Dier's Post 558. "It seems spot on. Looks like they are trying to figure out the game and analyze things" is an odd way to describe a post where Dierfire agrees with qubixes and sheeps him.
To the question of why I only now got around to looking into those games, I can only answer that it seemed lower priority than some of the other things that I've been doing. I've had "check into those games" on my list of things to do for a little while now (I mentioned it in 228, so it must have been on my radar at that point, although at some point I noted that I wanted to review the case presented by qubixes in 372 specifically), but I didn't get around to it earlier.
Finally, I'm not abandoning my read on Kappy. He's done nothing to improve my read on him (and it frustrates me that he hasn't found time to actually read and respond to my questions), but I can only vote for one player and my read on karnos certainly deserves a vote.-
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Dierfire Mafia Scum
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@Masquerade
I disagree with your assessment of 510 by karnos (in your 542). I don't believe that his action (asking other players to speculate about which other players would be Mafia if he is) is particularly unlikely to come from a Mafia player for the reasons that I listed.In post 593, Masquerade wrote:@Dierfire: What exactly in my post are you not agreeing with?-
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Dierfire Mafia Scum
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Masquerade Mafia Scum
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MathBlade He/HimTechnical SupportHe/Him
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Still rereading the thread but the more I thing about it Wingback is almost certainly derp town. Still don't like Masquerade and don't like Dierfire either now or the species/Magnos slot.In post 475, karnos wrote:I'm not going to keep banging my head into the wall to make a point, if you want to lynch me go ahead. As long as the scum who started this wagon on me get lynch in the following days, I'll consider it a fair trade.
Karnos isn't even consistent in his defeatist statements.
He voted a fucking town read who the hell does that as town? Like what?
586 actual town player was this a slip? This made me re-evaluate my Wingback read into derp town. No town says actual town. 586 IMHO comes from a place of knowledge.
I also don't like Dierfire's pedal back after that post. That is sketchy as hell. Who retreats after someone says "actual town"? Not ready for claims/lynches on your top scum read is bullshit. If they aren't your top scumread anymore say so and who is. If you are unsure of who your top scumread is say that. But this is fucking sketch.
Combining that with the prior defeatist posts puts a big FoS on Dierfire especially the one quoted.
I believe we have caught scum in Karnos and now scum are scrambling to find any sort of lynch and revitalize it. Do not let that happen. We should be lynching Karnos today.-
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MechaGoomba Goon
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This. So much this.In post 612, MathBlade wrote: He voted a fucking town read who the hell does that as town? Like what?
If we had quicklynched karnos after 499 I wouldn't have batted an eye.
I mean, "I voted the guy I was townreading as a reaction test" is up there with "Yeah I fakeclaimed a cop guilty, but I was really sure the guy was mafia."
People - a lot of people - were scumreading karnos even before 499, and now nobody's bothering to mention anything but it.
Even if you believe karnos's explanation for that ridiculous gambit, he is still scummy for a multitude of other reasons! But you have people that are actually using the ridiculous gambit as a reason to townread him.
I understand that a lot of people, replacing in, are getting overwhelmed by this argument. I get it. There's not actually much of use in the last few pages.
The pre-499 part of karnos's ISO is probably the most important thing to look at, actually. 499 is important, but it's just the clincher at the end of a long string of scumminess.-
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MathBlade He/HimTechnical SupportHe/Him
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Kappy Goon
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I know this question isn't for me, but I feel that if karnos is scum, he has done a good job avoiding implicating his scum partner. I have no idea who it might be.In post 614, MathBlade wrote:@Mecha -- Assuming Karnos is scum, who do you think is scum with him?-
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Kappy Goon
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karnos Mafia Scum
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WTF dude. Being at L-1 doesn't grant super-cop capability to detect all the scum. What I know comes from the reads I have made in the thread. 586 is my best guesses. If I just wanted to live, maybe I could stomach lying like you think I should and say X is obviously scum lynch them tomorrow, but I have to be honest. I don't know who is definite scum, best I can give are my reads and opinions. I don't want to be lynched, but I'm not going to insist on a lynch of someone I am not 100% sure about. Read 586- pick one of the suspected scum talk about it and lynch the right one. I can't tell you who is absolutely scum because I don't know.In post 601, MechaGoomba wrote: Even when about to be lynched, when you have your last chance to contribute to town, you're still so cautious!
You're not saying "These people are the scum, lynch them tomorrow." You're saying "OK, you asked for reads? Here are reads."
Above all, that's what I really don't like. When you have a chance to contribute, you equivocate, but you are willing to reiterate your flimsy defences as much as you need to.-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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Really? I find it really strange that you would say this.In post 613, MechaGoomba wrote:
This. So much this.In post 612, MathBlade wrote: He voted a fucking town read who the hell does that as town? Like what?
...
I mean, "I voted the guy I was townreading as a reaction test" is up there with "Yeah I fakeclaimed a cop guilty, but I was really sure the guy was mafia."
He was reaction testing. He never scumread you: your contradiction just gave him a platform to reaction test.
Therefore, he never believed sloppiness was scummy. No contradiction exists.
(You could argue that this is deception and therefore scummy, but reaction testing like that is a well-known strategy for town, and, well, it worked here. He sorted you as town.)
Sound familiar at all? That was YOU. In 300 you indicated that deception, voting, & reaction testing is all kosher and well known town strategy. Now you are claiming town would never use it? WTF dude?
It's obvious what I missed, and I'm sorry to out you, but you are obviously a mason. There is no other way you could spew so much contrary BS without being scum-read by more players than me. I'm sorry I didn't see this earlier, but I am not sorry for outing you: you forced me into a corner and I am not going to let me lynch you because it's your fault that your mason game makes you look scummy as all hell. Obviously, deny, don't confirm the claim, but now that I know I realize why pushing and voting you made me look like scum. You are the one making the huge contradictory posts, not me. I've never said that town never lie, or town never vote town reads. I have been consistent and honest, you haven't.-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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Is that really an argument? I was pretty sure you would double-down after my read of you as scum, but "actual town" is a scum tell?In post 612, MathBlade wrote: Who retreats after someone says "actual town"? Not ready for claims/lynches on your top scum read is bullshit. If they aren't your top scumread anymore say so and who is. If you are unsure of who your top scumread is say that. But this is fucking sketch.
Combining that with the prior defeatist posts puts a big FoS on Dierfire especially the one quoted.
I believe we have caught scum in Karnos and now scum are scrambling to find any sort of lynch and revitalize it. Do not let that happen. We should be lynching Karnos today.
There you go Mecha, there is the scum. Trying to pushing the lynch through on Father's day weekend when a lot of players won't even be around to chime in.-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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MechaGoomba Goon
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"You're still being too cautious and this doesn't fit your townplay." "But how can I know for certain anyone is 100% sure to be scum!"karnos wrote: WTF dude. Being at L-1 doesn't grant super-cop capability to detect all the scum. [...] I don't know who is definite scum, best I can give are my reads and opinions. [...] I'm not going to insist on a lynch of someone I am not 100% sure about. [...] I can't tell you who is absolutely scum because I don't know.
You're kind of proving my point there. If you really needed someone to be 100% scum, you'd never vote for anyone ever, because everything leaves some uncertainty. Even cops have godfathers to deal with.
If you knew the people you were voting for were 100% town on account of being scum yourself, on the other hand ...
In post 618, karnos wrote:In 300 you indicated that deception, voting, & reaction testing is all kosher and well known town strategy.
Most of that applies to Persivul as well.In post 547, MechaGoomba wrote: Look at how I was dealing with Chumba if you want an example of a proper reaction test.
Differences: I applied actual pressure, I finished the assessment quickly rather than letting it drag on, I explained what I was doing as soon as I finished testing, Ididn't lie(I was actually scumreading Chumba at the time, just changed my read after the reaction), and I was doing it during the early stages of the game where it would actually be useful (because once the early stages are over, discussion is much better at getting information than reaction testing).
You see that there are a bunch of people that seem to be buddying me, ignoring my "contradictory BS" and pushing my wagons. Their goal seems to be to get you lynched, and since (assuming you're town) you know you're town, this would be a mislynch.In post 618, karnos wrote:It's obvious what I missed, and I'm sorry to out you, but you are obviously a mason. There is no other way you could spew so much contrary BS without being scum-read by more players than me.
Why would you ever assume "they're masons" and not "they're scum"?
PS: I'm not a mason.-
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MathBlade He/HimTechnical SupportHe/Him
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Wtf Karnos!
1) This is scum and needs to die.
2) Mecha may or may not be a mason I don't know but you sure as hell don't give any ideas to scum.
3) No matter what you claim I don't believe you and you're just making shit up to save your own ass.
4) Today has been OMGUS weekly. Scum are trying to start a counter wagon on me. Don't let them.
5) Karnos would not be a NK target because he is scummy as fuck.
6) "Actual town" This means Karnos thinks there is such a thing as "fake town".
7) I will post my arguments whenever I damn well please. I don't give a shit what day of the week it is. I play when I want and others play when they want. I want scum lynched today and you are not sneaking out of this.-
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MathBlade He/HimTechnical SupportHe/Him
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Did you see this Mecha?In post 614, MathBlade wrote:@Mecha -- Assuming Karnos is scum, who do you think is scum with him?-
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MechaGoomba Goon
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I have the entire nightphase to figure such things out and so really don't want to waste time with preflip associatives, but if I absolutely had to pick someone, I'd go with either Kappy or maybe Dierfire.In post 614, MathBlade wrote:@Mecha -- Assuming Karnos is scum, who do you think is scum with him?
Also, I find it really strange that karnos has been going "you're scummy and terrible and we should lynch you for all these blatant contradictions" and such, and then as soon as MathBlade shows up and starts 1) voting for him and 2) not looking super town, karnos suddenly hypertownreads me with a flimsy mason explanation and then tries to get me to jump onto MathBlade. Not really seeing the read progression there.
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