Mini 1804: Poker Mafia (Game Over)

[Persivul]

Yee haw! I've been hankering fer a good old-fashioned game o' cards.

Well I'll be horn-swaggled, these here cards suck.

Fold

VOTE: Lane

He's got to be scum sometimes.

[Persivul]

The current pot is $230.

mod, might be helpful to also say "The current amount to call is $100."

[Persivul]

Raise $500

Snap!

He's bluffing...

[Persivul]

Wow, so on a scale of 1-10, how good are y'all at poker?

7 or 8, but this is an unusual format, especially since you can take someone's bankroll by lynching them.

[Persivul]

Lol still no. I'm afraid to play scum when you're in the game so I'm just going to be town this game

If you win the first pot we're going to lynch you anyway, just to take your $.

[Persivul]

Alch, is it possible to change poker variants each DP or no? Also, I expected this to be like a traditional no limit hold em format so I'm a little bit sad.

Yeah I figured it would be holdem or draw.

[Persivul]

I been runnin' around like a chicken with his head cut off so much I done gone and broke character.

Consarn it.

[Persivul]

Cool now if everyone comes in and calls or folds this hand resolves and we get a new deal.

[Persivul]

I won't win lol

So why did you bet all your money?

Could be scum dumping money to each other so they can buy out one of the bigger PRs early.

mod, did scum have pre-game talk? Do they have day talk?

[Persivul]

And consider my vote real now, i.e. not RVS.

[Persivul]

Eww. Earning money is not necessarily part of your wincon. Although I think that 42 is an awfully big leap to take.

I'm sure scum had pre-game talk, I've never seen a game where they didn't.

Money buys PRs. The top tier in particular is sweet for scum. But note that after a PR is bought once, it's off the market. So, scum have incentive to go after 2 and 3 as well. The lowest one is pretty meh.

[Persivul]

And even if that was my plan to give my money away, magna, chances are it goes to town.

Unless your scum buddy told you he had a strong hand.

[Persivul]

mod, when we get to a showdown, I assume all hands involved are shown. Is this correct?

[Persivul]

Does this necessarily point to lane as scum though? I'm thinking no. lane strikes me as the impulsive type. I don't get the feeling that his bet was part of a gambit, but it's something to still consider going forward.

I also consider lane to be impulsive and could see it coming from town!lane, but yes, it needs to be watched. It shouldn't matter for today. If Lane loses as he says he will, then it would be the winner we would want to lynch. I'm kind of kicking myself for mentioning the possibility when I did. It might have been more informative to let the hand play out before saying anything.

Fold

... are we going in any specific order? I didn't see anything about this in the rules. If not, should the town organize a makeshift order of players so that the scum cannot act in unison to their advantage? We could use dice tags to keep it random.

No, then we're all held up by the slowest player. I want to see more hands.

[Persivul]

How is my all in scummy? Unless the mm is my partner. Otherwise it could just be someone who tried to bluff and got called. You guys obviously know nothing about poker. People bluff. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. I think it's obvious you guys know nothing about poker to think that there would obviously be a call on all in first hand. You're trying to make it scummy when it isn't.

I would have liked it better if you pleaded ignorance. Before the US got shut down I played a ton of online poker. First-hand all-ins usually got at least one caller on 10-person tables, and here we have 13. Also note that the sites watched for collusion, including chip dumping from one player to another.

[Persivul]

VOTE: The MM

Based on the chip dumping theory and a reads list full of nulls. If you don't have any reads yet, why put up a list? Oh yeah...because it looks kinda townie.

[Persivul]

Habit - I usually play 13s. The point remains that with 11 people an all-in is likely to be called.

[Persivul]

I also an very, very wary of Lane’s buddying / borderline hero worship with Pers.

There's no hero worship. We just have a history of working well together once we're convinced each other are town (I'm not there yet).

Otherwise that was a very good post.

[Persivul]

It is also possible that MM has a good 5 card draw hand and he pre-empted scum’s plan as Town.

Actually MM would look a lot better if he had simply said he has a great hand and so he called. Claiming he was pre-empting scum's plan is bad. As has been already noted, if here were really thinking at that level, he would have waited for scum to call before going in himself.

[Persivul]

MM claimed that scenario himself in 88: "Even scum wouldn't give away monies at random, the only way that it makes any amount of sense is scum trying to give away their monies to a scumpartner with a good hand, to get this perk out ASAP.

I called to break that

, as I am quite confident in my hand."

If he was really thinking at that level, he would have waited for other scum to get in before calling himself.

[Persivul]

player's

[Persivul]

Red Coytoe(2)

mod: if you're going to screw up his name, I suggest making it Red Cameltoe

[Persivul]

Lol no draw?! And no claiming cards?!

Raise $500

VOTE: rc

mod: it's been 48 hours since the all in. Does this mean hands of people who haven't acted are automatically folded?

Per the rules:

-Any player who has not chosen an action by deadline or within 48 hours after the last action was made will forfeit their hand.

While this is a little vague I think my interpretation is probably what was meant, and it's best for the game. Otherwise people could space out folds so that there's never a second hand.

[Persivul]

IMO it should be 48 hours since the most recent bet or raise to avoid confusion.

[Persivul]

That's bullshit.

[Persivul]

Sorry, but I didn't join a poker-themed game to get one crappy hand and then have to wait forever for the next deal.

[Persivul]

So, anyone up for an RC wagon?

No reason to change before the showdown. The hands might tell us something.

[Persivul]

This time...

[Persivul]

Bet 50

[Persivul]

So Lane, you had garbage, and went all in when there wasn't much to win, but significant number of people left to call. Why? Again, I could get that if you pleaded ignorance about poker, but you then acted as if you're pretty knowledgeable about poker.

MM's call with a straight is of course reasonable. If the chip dumping theory has merit, it has to be based on lane's action alone. Although as noted lane claims poker knowledge but made a bad play, he does goof off at times, and its not like this is for real money.

[Persivul]

Persivul, now you understand why MM called.

Yep.

Do you understand why he kept changing his story about why he called?

Nope.

Do you think that says anything about his alignment?

It's scummy. If he had just said

I had a big hand and got excited when I saw the all-in and called

, that would make more sense.

[Persivul]

MM making excuses as a response to being attacked for a mistake is natural both as scum and town.

Giving the true reason is natural as town. Making one excuse after another isn't.

[Persivul]

It's against the rules. Call me and you can see it later. Oh yeah...you're broke...

[Persivul]

MM, if you end up with your current cash at end of phase, what will you do with it, and why?

[Persivul]

This reaction seems a little odd to me given Kappy was set to auto-fold in under 7 hours.

I hadn't checked it. When mod pointed it out I said This time... just to be a dick.

So what exactly did the hands show you then?

Lane's hand is as bad as he indicated. This is compatible with a chip dump, or a bluff gone wrong. As previously noted, the bluff gone wrong isn't convincing because lane later claimed decent poker knowledge, and with this many players someone who knows poker should expect a call. OTOH and as also noted, when real money isn't on the line people do shit like that.

MM's hand is compatible with a chip dump. Scum aren't risking all their chips without a good hand to back it up. But, it's good enough that town might have jumped on the all-in. The problem with MM isn't his card play per se, but rather the changing explanations he gives for the play.

If one of them flips scum, I think the other needs lynched as well. If one of them flips green, it doesn't say as much about the other.

[Persivul]

I buy it because I made the same mistake - albeit not directly in thread. At one point after I initially read the rules I thought it was odd that Governor and Vengeful were exactly twice the starting amount. I went back to double check and found out I was wrong. SO i don't see it as some smoking gun.

Did you read your role PM?

[Persivul]

Mine said that the initial rules had changed so be sure to read up before confirming.

[Persivul]

Mine said that the initial rules had changed so be sure to read up before confirming.

Your point?

Point being that having seen what I take was an earlier price list isn't a good excuse, as the PMs specifically said stuff had changed and we were to read it before confirming.

Regarding red cameltoe: He comes across as somewhat stilted, but his argument and vote on MM seems reasonable. He null- then town-read Lane despite my having paired them together, so he wasn't just sheeping.

[Persivul]

BBT: not saying shit, which isn't unusual for him.

[Persivul]

Same for FAQ unfortunately.

[Persivul]

Same for FAQ unfortunately.

Give me time - been a busy week.

No. Last time I saw you lurk like this you were scum.

VOTE: FAQ2

[Persivul]

This is rather blatant role fishing. There is no town reason to tell scum what you are going to do with the money gained - it jsut tells them who they need to eliminate and/or what potential a particular slot may have.

The best choices are really fucking obvious. The point was to see his frame of mind.

[Persivul]

Persivul is next because of his reaction to me calling him out on role fishing. Rather than engage me on it he sidestepped it and went OMGUS with a bullshit reason.

The role fishing charge is terrible in this setup. The people with enough money to buy roles is public knowledge, and scum will be motivated to kill those people.

[Persivul]

OK, so I'm kind of fucked. I have a good enough hand to call, but don't want to call just to see a raise. So, I was holding off calling until the 48 hours from the last action had almost passed. But, it just hit me that my call will be an action, and reset the clock to 48 hours for the people who are still in the hand.

[Persivul]

Fire Assassin and qubixes: if you're folding or raising can you do so in the next couple of hours?

[Persivul]

Lane is also listed as needing to act but he should be out of money so I think that's an oversight.

[Persivul]

-If a player loses all their money, they remain in the game but will no longer receive a poker hand.

[Persivul]

I bought back in, in exchange for being gayer

I'm not sure that's possible...

[Persivul]

Actions need to be 12 hours or next post. Whichever is greater. Or something like that

If we're going to use 48 hours, then only bets and raises should count as actions. Folds and calls shouldn't.

[Persivul]

Yes, or just make every hand 48 hours. If you can't act, then your hand is folded.

Yeah that would work.

[Persivul]

Possible avatars for Lane:

[Persivul]

Call

[Persivul]

When lane plays poker, a pair of queens beats a straight...

[Persivul]

It's already up from the fact that we'll be waiting at least two more freaking days for this hand to resolve.

[Persivul]

@Persivul: I already folded

Cool, that means if fire calls or folds, the hand is over.

[Persivul]

Holy shit, you spent an hour just because someone said

you always scum read me

?

[Persivul]

The point of the meta argument is that if Red Coyote was being honest his assessment of my play should say I'm probably Town. But that's not the conclusion he reaches.

A more likely possibility is simply that his memory was off. I've said similar things as town and found I was wrong after researching, and I've only been her a year.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Fire Assassin

He's posting all over site but not here thus playing to his scum meta.

From what games do you get that meta?

I just checked two of his games.

In Micro 597 he was scum and was the second highest poster.
In Mini 1785 he was town and his post count was in the middle of the pack.

So, while I'd like an easy answer, I'm not seeing it.

And I'd like the douchebag to at least come in to call or fold.

[Persivul]

In Micro 597 he was scum and was the second highest poster.

I can't find another scum game for him.

VOTE: Magna

[Persivul]

Lets see what this does:
VOTE: FA_Q2

Would you please make your poker action?

[Persivul]

I can't find another scum game for him.

If you can't find a scum game in here you are not looking very hard -

http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... &sr=topics

Maybe I could, but what's the point? What is that search?

I clicked on FIre Assassin, then on "view their topics," and got this:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... &sr=topics

I found the one scum game that I mentioned.

If you have others in which he lurked, please name them so we can check them.

[Persivul]

I feel so dumb. I just figured out what fa_q2 means

I haven't. Enlighten me.

[Persivul]

If that's the case, with as many games as FB has played there's probably some where he's lurked as scum, but probably a bunch where he's had high post counts as scum too. But Magna is willing to spend an hour going back four years over a minor comment, so I would think he could prove the meta charge if it's accurate.

[Persivul]

I looked at persivul's iso and it contains a lot of votes changing around without a lot of explanations or reads. Don't think his vote on faq2 is a bus though.

I've had 4 votes, 1 in RVS.

I checked your ISO. You've had 4 votes, 1 in RVS.

Why do you characterize my ISO as having "a lot of votes changing around"?

[Persivul]

WTF, if firebringer doesn't act soon I'm replacing. This is bullshit.

[Persivul]

What action?

I call $100

Oh fuck the dipshit just now realizes that there are special mechanics in the game he joined.

[Persivul]

Ohh hey, I subbed into a game and didn't see the bottom of my role card had a "hand" i just saw a "role"

Exactly. And you didn't see that is said there are special mechanics and you should read them before confirming.

If you can't handle the number of games you're in, don't play so many games.

[Persivul]

I swear to god if this is a scum meta based on my other account I am going to tear you down with a machine gun.

When an alt is known, behavior of the main is fair game for a meta read.

Whether it's an accurate meta read has not been demonstrated at this point.

[Persivul]

Hate reads on me based on meta, I am playing this account to engage in playstyles I don't normally do, so to say I am town or scum based on games from a different account is insulting me and I really just won't stand for it. Kthx (I am likely going to have to point that out some more)

It doesn't work that way. If you want to use an alt to try different styles, it's up to you to keep the alt secret. Magna hasn't given games to prove his meta charge yet, but there's nothing wrong with him going to your main's games if he gets around to it.

[Persivul]

Two words, first one is "Fuck."

mod, please replace me.