New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[zakk]

also, scum are much more liekly to focus on what people say about THEM, than about what people say about OTHERS



also, NEWB scum are much more likely to REPLY to that stuff




that's 2 things which make me think it

[Titus]

I'm srry, I never said Kop was alive.

No those dead players need to start posting and help us.

[Titus]

i thought it was significantly funny.

Me too. :$

I make funny slips like that all the time.

[projectmatt]

regarding my switch from copper to seth, I felt more confident in my own observation skills than sheeping titus's in this case, copper was looking at bit more townie to me on a first glance.

I could buy this if you didn't proceed to still FOS Copper pretty strongly throughout the rest of the game, and never once actually state that he looked more town to you. This reads like a silly excuse to me.

I posted what I believe to be substantial posting about anon (my responses to his case on me), but yeah I didn't vote him at the time. Why? The closest answer I can give you is partially self-doubt and partially just "I dun wanna".

What??? This is not true!

In this post:

I'm not refusing to vote for anen, but I won't be today, because anen can be vigged or can be hit by cross kills. Kop is a much more realistic risk. When you've got two people who commit a crime, do you indict the construction worker who killed a man or the med-tech executive who committed fraud? The med-tech executive, since he's a flight risk! A commuter is objectively higher in priority in lynches because you can't vig him, unless you try over and over again, and at that point you're wasting vig targets.

You literally gave your reasoning for not voting Anen, and it was nothing close to "self-doubt" or "I dun wanna". Boo!

I swear my point went over your head so fast, so high; you looking up and trying to make sense of it made your nose bleed right onto your keyboard and typed this post. The idea is that with the number of people suspecting me and the small chance of anyone changing their read because of the way I approached anen's wagon makes busing a waste of two scum members.

I understand your point, I just don't think it's true. Your argument hinges on bussing Anen being a big waste of time, when in most cases, it likely wouldn't be.

[projectmatt]

Matt – so your conclusion as far as this section goes is that Nos treated Copper and Anen the same (weak attacks without a major push), they flipped opposite alignments, and both make Nos look more like scum?

Yeah, but for different reasons. His attack on Copper looks scummy because he did it with little reasoning and as an easy line of attack, but he backed off when Copper's wagon wasn't getting as much traction. His attack on Anen looks scummy because he gave a long case against Anen, but weirdly distanced himself at the same time.

So for the sake of argument pretend Nos is off the table – which of the others would you be most likely to support? Because I think you are Town and have similar reads on the other three but don’t see myself going after Nos.

Probably Shaziro, as he's my most confident of the reads apart from Nosferatu, and I want to give Egg a little bit of a chance to catch up and post content. If he doesn't, then he'll become my primary target. (after Nos, of course.) Why can't you see yourself going after Nos?

Shotty further confirmed my townread on him in the last few pages.

Everything else is still the same. Cy's readlist is so painfully bad, but w/e.

[Ircher]

Lynch Shaz or Liger pls & ty.

Prod Dodge tbh. Nothing new to say.

[Nahdia]

V/LA for the weekend.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be V/LA from today at 5pm EDT til Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties.

4. 2098 - Failed lolhammer; tries to make up excuses in 2099 - Ofc, you switch wagons right when it's convenient: right when you think you can get away with lolhammering Percival. DIE SCUM! - Very Scummy (-4)

Actually this is something I had forgotten had happened. Thanks for the reminder.

Eh. Nice try.

So what … I’m wrong that you are a Serial Killer and you are a Werewolf instead? What’s the point of this response?

So, I'm back from my break, but with that I'm actually am going to start playing this game more seriously....starting with this post.

Why as Town would you wait until now to start “playing seriously”?

I really don't know how good my instincts on this. I am really sheeping a dead player on this.

Why are you sheeping a dead player again so systematically again? I get that you know his reads are honest but let’s look at his last big read post (2519) again –

He was wrong calling Anen Town being “pushed by scum”. By further contrast his scum reads on Nahdia and PMatt are probably wrong given those two don’t stand much of chance of being Anen’s partner.

So Copper while well meaning clearly isn’t infallible and I don’t think mindlessly sheeping him is necessarily smart play if you are Town.

Probably Shaziro, as he's my most confident of the reads apart from Nosferatu, and I want to give Egg a little bit of a chance to catch up and post content. If he doesn't, then he'll become my primary target. (after Nos, of course.) Why can't you see yourself going after Nos?

More precisely – I don’t see myself going after him today. Probably should have been more clear.

This game - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=65953 is why.

If you need to read anything read my Day 4 (Day scum Ranger got lynched) back and forth with him. With him eventually being Town it is my baseline calibration on what I can expect from Nos.

Granted I don’t have scum meta on him I have bigger fish I think need fried currently.

Also – how much time does Egg need to catchup you think? This is effectily the second full game-day he’s been doing it.

[Lowell]

I voted egg and I see a lot of people circling the pool trying to decide whether to jump in. Just do it. Magna's point on this is the right one.

I'm also okay with a liger wagon if that's what is happening. I'm ready to kill some chumps.

[zakk]

@mod: V/LA this weekend

[Nosferatu]

regarding my switch from copper to seth, I felt more confident in my own observation skills than sheeping titus's in this case, copper was looking at bit more townie to me on a first glance.

I could buy this if you didn't proceed to still FOS Copper pretty strongly throughout the rest of the game, and never once actually state that he looked more town to you. This reads like a silly excuse to me.

You can tell the scum read diminished, because I stopped voting him.

I posted what I believe to be substantial posting about anon (my responses to his case on me), but yeah I didn't vote him at the time. Why? The closest answer I can give you is partially self-doubt and partially just "I dun wanna".

What??? This is not true!

In this post:

I'm not refusing to vote for anen, but I won't be today, because anen can be vigged or can be hit by cross kills. Kop is a much more realistic risk. When you've got two people who commit a crime, do you indict the construction worker who killed a man or the med-tech executive who committed fraud? The med-tech executive, since he's a flight risk! A commuter is objectively higher in priority in lynches because you can't vig him, unless you try over and over again, and at that point you're wasting vig targets.

You literally gave your reasoning for not voting Anen, and it was nothing close to "self-doubt" or "I dun wanna". Boo!

I gave my reasoning for Kop > Anen. I could've voted him before then but I didn't.

[Liger_Zero]

Then do something about it.

If you don't want to be lynched, then participate. If your town, then the previous lynch should've been a wake up call for you.

You, Cy, Kop.... All you need to stop lurking and actually do stuff rather than prod-dodge constantly.

Okay? I think you are not understanding the situation totally. Though I could be putting more effort into the game, I wouldn't say I am deep lurking...

[Liger_Zero]

Why are you sheeping a dead player again so systematically again? I get that you know his reads are honest but let’s look at his last big read post (2519) again –

He was wrong calling Anen Town being “pushed by scum”. By further contrast his scum reads on Nahdia and PMatt are probably wrong given those two don’t stand much of chance of being Anen’s partner.

So Copper while well meaning clearly isn’t infallible and I don’t think mindlessly sheeping him is necessarily smart play if you are Town.

I am nowhere saying his reads are 100% gold....I am saying there's reasons for him being dead and me being here.

[SirCakez]

Votecount 3.4

K2 in Pakistan/China!

Titus (2) - cytheflyguy, Shaziro
Liger_zero (2) - Ircher, drmyshottyizsik
Shaziro (1) - Titus
Ircher (1) - Nahdia
Egg (1) - Lowell
Nosferatu (1) - projectmatt
MagnaOfIllusion (1) - Liger_zero
cytheflyguy (1) - zakk

Not voting (3) - Egg, Nosferatu, MagnaOfIllusion

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch someone.

Egg is V/LA until June 24.
Nahdia is V/LA until June 26.
MagnaOfIllusion is V/LA until June 27.
zakk is V/LA until June 26.

(expired on 2016-07-02 18:44:00) remain until day end.

[zakk]

Oh and VOTE: Titus in case that happens while I'm vla

[Egg]

Page 110:
Ircher, so you don't think a town vig killed Brawl?

Page 111:
So Copper thought Magna was scum reaching out to opposing scum Ircher. Copper was killed last night. Interesting.

Because Anen is dead scum, I have to note his soft defense of cy (chainsaw?) when addressing Kop who is dead town. He does it twice in 2759. He's also going hard after Nos but then saying he "has doubts" about Nos. I feel like this could be distancing. I also see him defending Titus a couple of times on this page, but such a hard defense is probably more likely to be buddying to influential town than defending a buddy.

Projectmatt questioning Magna on his town read on him is looking townish.

Copper asked me about the connection between his slot and Kop's brought up by Ircher. My answer was going to be that it was BS. Copper and Kop have since flipped town though so it's pretty irrelevant.

Page 112:
The response to the first quote in 2777 by Anen shows that there is probably scum in Nos/Ircher. No, I'm not confirmation biasing on this one. Same post: if Shaziro or Titus is scum, I'm looking hard at the other. Mostly a note for later though as I'm townreading both.

Ircher using Kop's claim against him "likely a scum role" sucks. It feels like a framing attempt and his claim that he's mostly seen commuter as a scum role rubs me the wrong way. I honestly don't remember seeing a scum commuter before. And I don't get why the "two shot" modifier was so damning either. The whole thing just reeks. It looks like Copper picked up this line of questioning for me. Cool.

Not a fan of Lowell bragging about starting the Kop wagon.

Dead town Copper called the Kop wagon "likely scum pushed". Dead scum Anen was on it with the following living players: Lowell, Ircher, Magna, Nos. Yikes, that looks scum pushed even WITHOUT the fact that Copper and Kop have already flipped town. Noting that Copper also scumread projectmatt because of the timing of this wagon. Lowell jumped off Kop to projectmatt after that post. Hmm. Did Copper scare the scum off the wagon?

Page 113:
Note to self: I'd like to fact check projectmatt on calling himself lynch bait.

Given the flips, projectmatt's point that Lowell has had Anen as a scum lean for a while but hasn't voted him or interacted with him definitely stands out. Actually, 2813 by projectmatt is a pretty good post as a whole. I also like his point that Ircher's calling Copper primarily an association read doesn't add up after scumreading Copper before Kop was even in the game. However, the "sudden silence" comment from projectmatt makes no sense. The fact that it had been a whopping 10 minutes and Ircher hadn't answered doesn't mean Ircher had suddenly gone silent.

Page 114:
Nos' post about a rolecop is pinging hard for me. Also,

I want everyone to look at Post 2835 in hindsight

. This looks like frustration at the Mod for outting the fact that Nos' team has an encryptor. Anen flipped encryptor.

Page 115:
I don't like Magna's assertion that Copper's Seth push can't be considered "hard" because the wagon didn't pick up. Two reasons. First, what other people do has nothing to do with how hard one person was pushing. Second, four votes is decent for a wagon. Sure, the wagon was on town and scum was part of it, but we didn't know that at the time. Or at least most of us didn't.

I'll do more when my phone is charged.

[Ircher]

Then do something about it.

If you don't want to be lynched, then participate. If your town, then the previous lynch should've been a wake up call for you.

You, Cy, Kop.... All you need to stop lurking and actually do stuff rather than prod-dodge constantly.

Okay? I think you are not understanding the situation totally. Though I could be putting more effort into the game, I wouldn't say I am deep lurking...

Put more effort in. You are too lurking.

[Nosferatu]

@egg I asked the mod if my scum team had an encryptor and then got mad at him for outing it? You're hilarious.

[Egg]

Page 116/117:
I agree with Liger that Nahdia's replace out post is both upsetting to read and town.

Zakk, Lowell was a chronic lurker years ago, left the site for a while, and came back and still doesn't seem to pay full attention to games. I can buy that he didn't 100% know what a commuter is. It's not THAT common of a role, especially for someone who mostly only plays normal games. Doesn't mean he's town, but that's not a great point against him. (As I keep reading, I see that Lowell addressed this himself. Just acknowledging that)

I feel like I should mention that while I've been mostly townreading zakk, I do have it in the back of my mind that he might be intentionally playing against his scum meta as scum. It's an idea, but I'm not leaning that way. It's just kind of there as a theory.

Magna's Copper tunnel is pretty painful to read knowing that Copper was town.

Page 118:
Not sure what to make of zakk's re-read of Seth/Kop. Why wait until he's L-1 to express doubt? At that point, his lynch was near inevitible. If you wanted to stop it, you needed to speak up sooner.

Page 119:
Lowell's hammer doesn't feel like an "lolhammer" to me. The lynch was going to happen and he just happened to be the one to deliver it. Kop had already claimed. Not sure why he phrased it that way.

Page 120:
Nos' "I was right" post makes me even more sure of my earlier theory that he and Anen were distancing.

Zakk, you mentioned being more interested in Copper's reads after his town flip, but didn't expand on it. Did any of your reads change as a result of that? Also, why vote Titus before ISOing Anen rather than waiting to see if the ISO shows anything.

I don't like Ircher's phrasing of "how am I implicated" after Zakk's reads update from the flips. It feels like he thought he and Anen did a decent job of not looking like buddies.

Shaziro, how confident are you that you were misreading Nos earlier? Do you have any other reads that either changed or were strengthened for similar reasons? What are your two strongest reads?

Page 121:
Liger, can you elaborate on what Magna said in the PT that looked town?

I like Nahdia on this page.

Page 122:
Oh, cool. Titus VCA coming up. Looking forward to it.

Ircher, I don't buy that you don't understand what the scum motivation would be for directing a vig to town.

Shaziro, I'm probably going to vote Ircher. You should join me if you think he and Titus were distancing earlier.

Page 123:
I don't like Titus saying that no one is pushing Ircher as scum. Drmy and myself have been scumreading him all game. Copper was scum reading him. Nahdia was voting him at the time Titus said that. And now Shaziro hints at a scum read on him. It's a real misrep of gamestate. Also, I know I've mentioned this in the past, but you really should be more subtle about power role thoughts... Don't reply to that last sentence.

Magna's "hard reset" is what I was expecting. If he didn't do that, I was going to call him out.

I hate to say it, but drmy's defense that he would have made his buddies bus him for the "BUSSED SO HARD" title as scum is something I actually buy...

Hmm. Lowell claimed two shot vig. Uhhh. If true, nice kills. I'm going to sit back before making a judgement on that for now. Knee jerk reaction is to believe him though. I don't think SK Lowell claims vig yet here, especially not two shot. As scum, it would be ballsy as fuck to claim vig especially given Anen's scum flip. And by ballsy, I mean stupid.

I was impatient last time and took my phone off the charger before it was ready. Now it's dead again. So that's probably as far as I'm getting tonight.

Preview edit: Ah. I missed that you were the one who asked. Ok, fair enough.

[Shaziro]

I'm seeing him as townish now, to be real with you. Especially in his talking about where he was right and where he was wrong. I definitely don't think if he was scum with an encryptor, he would have effectively gotten it called out and brought to surface. It's possible that he's on a scum team against another team, and wanted to see if they had one when his team didn't, but I'm thinking town. Why are you preferring an Ircher lynch over Titus? What do you think about him outright saying "Lynch me first instead of Titus" knowing that Titus has claimed odd-night now?

[Egg]

I'm guessing I haven't made it to the "lynch me first" thing yet. But basically, I'm still townreading Titus. My Ircher scum read is independent of Titus and my ISO is full of why so give it a skim when you have some time.

[Shaziro]

I'll do that. I've been mostly skipping past you posts because I'm not a fan of your perpetual catching up. I'm waiting for your big wrap-up.

[Liger_Zero]

Put more effort in. You are too lurking.

No.

[Egg]

Page 124:
Can we stop referring to Titus' odd night claim as a counterclaim. Odd night and two shot modifiers can both exist and Kop already flipped two shot. Lowell isn't being lynched unless someone else claims his kills (a vig who made those kills should just kill Lowell tonight though) or explains why he'd make that claim as scum. And if we're lynching Titus, someone needs to explain why as scum she'd fakeclaim odd night just to secure the already inevitible lynch of a two shot commuter whose day play wasn't helping us at all. Basically, Titus and Lowell's claims are town claims.

Zakk, do you honestly believe Lowell is making it to endgame with a vig claim? I don't.

And now we're wagoning Lowell. Wonderful...

Page 125:
Titus/Nahdia, yeah a non-Lowell vig should be shooting Lowell. If they are out of shots, they counterclaim. Simple play if he's scum. (Ok, Titus says that later)

Shaziro, we aren't lynching for info. We're trying to lynch scum.

I don't get Titus' Shaziro vote at all. Frustration maybe?

Ok there's Ircher's thing that Shaziro was talking about. I'll admit that looks town.

Shaziro, you said Titus sounds like a scum power role. Does that mean you believe her about being odd night?

Page 126:
Ewwww, Titus, why rolefish Shaziro like that? And then trying to bully him into claiming. Damn.

Page 127:
And then Ircher trying to get Shaziro to claim too? What the fuck is this?

I'm actually feeling Lowell's Magna vote.

Shaziro, you should probably just not even reply when Titus and Ircher try to get you to claim. This is pretty bad.

Page 128:
I'm finding myself on the Nahdia/Shaziro/Zakk side of the arguement against Titus/Ircher for the record.

Page 129:
Zakk wants my reads:
Strong town: Shaziro, Lowell, Nahdia
Town: Zakk, Titus
Weak town: Drmy, Liger
Can't decide: projectmatt, cy
Weak scum: Magna, Nos
Scum: Ircher

Zakk, you also said you want my opinion on "everything". Can you be more specific?

Magna siding with Titus and Ircher is making me cringe. It's blatant rolefishing. How can you support that? 3214 also seems to ignore that Shaziro is new. His grasp on balance isn't nearly as good as someone who is an experienced Mod for example. Shaziro JUST pointed this out too...

Drmy is looking worse as the game goes on. I don't like his comments about Magna "proving" he's town or his sheep vote on Shaziro.

Page 130:
Eyeballing Ircher's vote counts real fast, can we acknowledge how town that Day 1 Ircher wagon was? And who was on Persivul where no scum have flipped yet? (Magna, Titus, Ircher, zakk, shaziro, cy, projectmatt, nahdia). The Persivul thing won't be settled until more of those players flip but holy shit that Ircher wagon. So town. Also, Magna is on every single one of those leading wagons (Brawl, Persivul, Kop) except Ircher.

Nahdia, to be fair I'd make every effort to catch up on this game even if I was scum. I hate playing from behind. I'd much rather be up to date on everything. I took on more than I can handle which is my own fault, but I did that before getting a Role PM.

Page 131:
Hmm, so all anyone has to do for Ircher to take their opinions as 95% fact is post them on the wiki. Noted.

Page 132:
I know we've basically established Lowell is town, but I want to point this out anyway. "I feel like a dumbass for claiming if it's SK" is ridiculously genuine.

Page 133:
Zakk, the difference you are seeing between killer instinct and Day 2 and 3 here is that I haven't been caught up. It's a fast paced large game. I was alive in killer instinct for something like 8 RL days and confirmed town for like half of that so my confidence was through the roof. Here, I feel shitty because I haven't contributed enough but I'm catching up now even if it takes until 3AM (it's looking like it will) so hopefully that changes. Also, Copper isn't alive for your reaction test JUST FOR HIM where you skipped Liger in your reads list =P
To your 11 shot dayvig question, I'd shoot:
Ircher -Pretty convinced he's scum.
Magna - I like him for scum.
Nos - Scum distancing with Anen or SK both make sense.
Cy - Can see either scum or SK.
Drmy - My earlier town read has faded. I could see SK or maybe scum if my scum reads are wrong
Titus -Meh, I don't think she's scum but I've hardly agreed with her on a single thing this game so maybe
Zakk - If you're manipulating your meta, you're doing a good job of it
Projectmatt - Probably not an Anen buddy. Maybe SK? Or opposing scum if that's still a possibility
Liger - Meh. I don't think I'd get this far without ending the game but my other town reads are stronger and he's a neighbor so worth a shot especially if Magna is town
Nahdia - *shrug*. I wouldn't want Nahdia in LYLO.
Bring to LYLO- Lowell and Shaziro and lynch Lowell. If the game isn't over at this point, Lowell played a ballsy ass SK game.

Notice Ircher's dayvig list still revolves around people's reads on him in at least one case (Nahdia). I feel like that drmy shot is some of that left over too.

I don't like projectmatt and Nos thinking my buying a house, moving, and working 16 hour days is scummy. That's effectively what you are saying when you scumread me for being behind. Just FYI.

Page 134:
Zakk, yeah drmy is posting but a lot of his recent stuff is fluff so that might be why you thought he was lurking.

Page 135:
Liger wanting a 1v1 with Magna and then voting him is very town. If Magna is town, Liger's got to know people are going to push him next. I don't see scum forcing the issue there.

I disagree with Magna null reading Liger (as opposed to town) for trying to draw a NK and then saying that's what he was doing when it didn't work. For the record though, when I said I was sheeping Magna's town read on Liger earlier, that was me saying that I realized Magna knew Liger was a power role (or at least it looked that way at the time).

3367 explains why drmy hasn't been posting much content and I'm back to townreading him. Sorry to hear about all of that. Drmy, do you really think scum Liger would be pushing "idk neighbor" as a case against Magna knowing full well he'd be lynched either instead or next if Magna was town?

Page 136:
Not loving Cy's "let me just post town reads instead of scum reads". Reeks of not wanting to step on toes. Cy as SK is actually making a lot of sense. I eased up on him earlier mostly because I'm scumreading Ircher and doubt they're scum together and because that early Cy wagon was mostly my scum reads. But SK I can see.

Page 137:

Vote Ircher

[zakk]

I thought you said ircher was town