Mini 1804: Poker Mafia (Game Over)

[Infinity 324]

You have any other reads? Why vote lane over persivul?

Why vote persivul?

You said something was a blatant rolefish, sounds like you think he's scum.

I feel like people this game are looking too much at people's actions and taking those at face value rather than trying to analyze the motivation behind them. If lane/mm were scum trying to get money for scum, they wouldn't do it so blatantly. Based on play alone, I think lane and mm (and persivul as well btw) look quite town.

FAQ2, I feel like you're just looking for things to comment on as opposed to actually trying to scumhunt. Some reads with reasons for each, please.

[Infinity 324]

Based on play alone.

I meant that their posts and thoughts look town to me

[Alchemist21]

♠ ♡ DAY 1 VOTECOUNT ♢ ♣

MM(3):

lane, Red Coyote, BBT

Red Coyote(2):

Infinity, Magna

BBT:

qubixes

lane:

FA

Persivul:

MM

FA_Q2:

Persivul

Not Voting(2):

Kappy, Something Smart

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

The current pot is $200

The amount to call is $100

Still in the hand: MagnaOfIllusion, Persivul, Kappy, lane0168, qubixes

Persivul, Kappy, lane, and quibixes must act.

Spoiler: Betting History

Bet orders:
Ante
Persivul bets 50
Bbt folds
Mm folds
Infinity folds
Something smart folds
Magnaofillusion raises to 100
FA folds
RC folds

Day ends in (expired on 2016-07-05 12:30:00)

Kappy's replacement request has been acknowledged..

[/quote]

[Alchemist21]

Fire Assassin replaces Kappy as of now.

[Fire Assassin]

An assassin walks into town and calls you all out to play a poker game with me.
Are you all yellow or what?

[Infinity 324]

What's up, are you scum?

[Fire Assassin]

What's up, are you scum?

Not much, and Probably.

[The MM]

What's up, are you scum?

Not much, and Probably.

I can't even believe he's saying this just like that. Assassin, I don't know if it's a good idea to get the most fingers of suspicion cast on you.

[Fire Assassin]

I don't really like your reaction to that. It suggested to me you either knew or think I am town already but are suggesting me to be careful and are slightly buddying me.

I would say its scummy, but it could be just nothing. Though usually I have seen town react to this in very few limited ways some are annoyed by it and don't take it serious others take it at face value, but this is a different reaction. My gut says its scummy.

[lane0168]

Must be partners

[RedCoyote]

RC, what is your read on Persivul? You've gone to great lengths to argue that lane's bet was non-alignment-indicative, do you have a read on him outside of that? (Especially given that his terrible hand was revealed.)

As previously stated, Persivul would rank as my top townread at this time. At this point, lane would be followed shortly thereafter.

He responded how you wanted. What issue do you have with him pointing out his objections with those questions? What was the point of the last two questions?

It's my responsibility to decipher whether or not those objections are found earnestly or whether they're part of an ulterior motive. Thus far, I am not impressed with MoI's scumhunting, but I'm understandably biased.

---

Why did you just happen to hop on the biggest wagon again?

There's no reason not to vote my top scumread at this time. Your incriminatory rhetoric is not appreciated.

I don't remember specifically. Frankly I didn't pay a huge attention to the shop aspect given it doesn't come into play until Night 1. I was more interested in the actual mechanics. You know ... things like Jokers.

I'm beginning to notice a pattern of you "forgetting" or "not paying attention" to events or activities that should would concern town-aligned players attempting to scumhunt honestly.

---

This is rather blatant role fishing. There is no town reason to tell scum what you are going to do with the money gained - it jsut tells them who they need to eliminate and/or what potential a particular slot may have.

The best choices are really fucking obvious. The point was to see his frame of mind.

It's worth asking, I think. Since the powers are made public, and MM has won the hand in public, there's little reason to act mum about it. If MM chooses not to say, he may argue that position, but I don't see the harm in asking him.

---

Lane is moving up to pretty strong town for being open with all his thoughts.

Agreed. That would be my position on lane as well. I don't know if he could conceal that level of openness if he wanted to.

---

You have no idea about my meta at all.

Pathetic vote.

It would be more productive to prove him wrong than complain about it.

[Infinity 324]

Still think RC is trying to generate content as opposed to actually scumhunt.

RC, what do you think of my reasons for calling you scum? Why do you think MoI "forgetting" or "not paying attention" is scum motivated, given that scum would want to have more information as well? Do you have a read on s_s or faq2 atm?

[RedCoyote]

I don't understand how one may scumhunt without "generating content" (defined by me as engaging people, asking questions, and answering questions).

As far as your reasons, going off of 135, you seem to be calling my posts "forced". Well, they kind of are, and, as I often have to begrudgingly admit (I say begrudgingly because it generally gets me in trouble even though it's true), I often do have to "force" myself when I draw town. I don't really enjoy playing town. Indeed, I only play Mafia for the opportunities to play as scum. Paradoxically, I tend to draw a lot of negative attention as town due to being more aggressive and devil-may-care with my posts. As scum, I tend to be much more muted and calculated.

Anyway, that's my meta rebuttal to your vote. Take it how you will.

S_S seems town. FAQ does not. I'll continue to interact and see if these reads change.

[RedCoyote]

Oh, and your bit about MoI. I think it's certainly anti-town. I don't know if it would be scum-motivated. I think it's difficult to say his scumhunting is honest when he "forgets" that I'm voting (despite that fact that a big part of his push was over the fact that I wasn't voting... and there was an official VC posted almost immediately before he made that contention). Additonally, I think it's irresponsible to "not pay attention" to the shop. Given that someone just won a poker hand, I went back and checked the shop again. Other players have asked MM about the shop. It just strikes me as naturally townie to be inquisitive about it.

Is it scummy? Maybe not. I think you've got a fair point. Still, I want to draw attention to it as I have not made these same mistakes.

[Infinity 324]

I don't understand how one may scumhunt without "generating content" (defined by me as engaging people, asking questions, and answering questions).

You certainly have to generate content to scum hunt, but there's a difference between trying to scum hunt and trying to generate content, and I feel like you are doing the latter.

As far as your reasons, going off of 135, you seem to be calling my posts "forced". Well, they kind of are, and, as I often have to begrudgingly admit (I say begrudgingly because it generally gets me in trouble even though it's true), I often do have to "force" myself when I draw town. I don't really enjoy playing town. Indeed, I only play Mafia for the opportunities to play as scum. Paradoxically, I tend to draw a lot of negative attention as town due to being more aggressive and devil-may-care with my posts. As scum, I tend to be much more muted and calculated.

You seem to be more calculated as opposed to aggressive this game, can you explain that?

You say you're going to interact with people to try and read them, but I don't see how your interactions so far have been motivated by an attempt to try and determine people's alignment, that's a lot of why I think you're scum.

As far as I can tell, you think MoI is scum because his case on you is a stretch, but I don't necessarily find stretching to be scummy. I think it could also be a sign of confirmation bias or trying to explain a gut read.

[qubixes]

Your votes for me basically say I'm transparent scum, guys; which would mean I'm bad. I'm not.

I am [a noobie]. This is my second game with people who actually know how to play. What makes you say I'm not?

Choose? Why draw the newbie card, when you consider yourself at least not bad?

VOTE: The MM

[qubixes]

@MoI: Ref: 203

Why do you think MM is less likely to be scum here given the hand? He would have a no-brainer regardless of his alignment? You also said that a strong hand by MM would make it more likely that lane and MM are a team. Why did you (seemingly) abandon this line of thinking?

Also, I think you underrepresented the arguments against MM, so it looks weaker than it is. Did you do that on purpose? What is your read on MM?

[qubixes]

If I was scum and had day talk... And I planned a scum money dump, how do you think that would actually go? What would be the actual plan?

First of all I wouldn't do the plan if we didn't have better than a pair. And I would've been aware of jokers so a pair doesn't mean much. You can figure this out by saying I have a bad, meh, good, very good, probably unbeatable hand.

2 options to start. Either the one with the good hand goes all in, and the shit hand calls. Or the bad hand goes all in and the good hand calls.

To me, it makes sense for the good hand to go all in first. Then if town calls and there's a chance they have a better hand, the bad hand can save its money. That obviously didn't happen.

So now if the bad hand goes all in, and even if a town calls, the good hand would still go all in, because it would've been decided its a very good hand that probably wouldn't get beat.

Considering there was only one call, the only option here is me and mm.

That's no way we would do that plan unless we were very confident we wouldn't be throwing money away. Cause that'd be dumber than town going all in on a bluff.

I think there is one big problem with a good hand going all-in first. The hands are shown and calling all-in with a bad hand is very suspicious.

[Infinity 324]

I think there is one big problem with a good hand going all-in first. The hands are shown and calling all-in with a bad hand is very suspicious.

This is a good point.

Do you have any reads other than mm?

[lane0168]

Ok. Good point. So if I'm scum and tried to dump money, after deciding yes we should go through with it cause good chance the good hand is good enough to beat anything, my scum partner either would've called after the mm, or my scum partner is the mm. There was no call. So if this is the story fa_q2 is going with, there should be no reason not to be voting the mm. Was my main point.

[lane0168]

Your votes for me basically say I'm transparent scum, guys; which would mean I'm bad. I'm not.

I am [a noobie]. This is my second game with people who actually know how to play. What makes you say I'm not?

Choose? Why draw the newbie card, when you consider yourself at least not bad?

VOTE: The MM

Also a good point

[RedCoyote]

You seem to be more calculated as opposed to aggressive this game, can you explain that?

You say you're going to interact with people to try and read them, but I don't see how your interactions so far have been motivated by an attempt to try and determine people's alignment, that's a lot of why I think you're scum.

As far as I can tell, you think MoI is scum because his case on you is a stretch, but I don't necessarily find stretching to be scummy. I think it could also be a sign of confirmation bias or trying to explain a gut read.

I'm sorry to hear you think that given that I would put you as a townread at this time. I think consciously promoting a leading wagon and giving out strong, unequivocal reads is fairly aggressive, certainly moreso than simply reacting to votes or criticism on me. I wouldn't characterize it as scheming or calculating given the fact that I'm unabashedly putting myself out there, not doing what I think will get me to survive longer, but doing what I think will help the town more.

My interactions are indeed helping my reads, even if you disagree. I don't see how you can contort my position on MoI as "confirmation bias" or "gut" when, first, I'm not voting him nor planning to do so at this time, second, I have not advocated or stumped for scumMoI, only pointed out what I found interesting and anti-town, and third, explained with some detail as to why I disliked some of MoI's arguments (in other words, if I am giving you rationale, doesn't that necessarily mean I'm

not

relying on "gut"?).

[Fire Assassin]

My assassin instincts are heavily telling me that Lane is scum in this game.

[Infinity 324]

I think consciously promoting a leading wagon and giving out strong, unequivocal reads is fairly aggressive, certainly moreso than simply reacting to votes or criticism on me. I wouldn't characterize it as scheming or calculating given the fact that I'm unabashedly putting myself out there, not doing what I think will get me to survive longer, but doing what I think will help the town more.

Well the careful part has a lot to do with how you word your posts. Pushing the biggest wagon part is pretty NAI, though I agree you have given strong reads.

I don't see how you can contort my position on MoI as "confirmation bias" or "gut" when, first, I'm not voting him nor planning to do so at this time, second, I have not advocated or stumped for scumMoI, only pointed out what I found interesting and anti-town, and third, explained with some detail as to why I disliked some of MoI's arguments (in other words, if I am giving you rationale, doesn't that necessarily mean I'm

not

relying on "gut"?).

What? I was talking about MoI's stretchy logic being explained by confirmation bias or trying to explain a gut read as opposed to MoI being scum.

PEdit: I think your assassin instincts are misguiding you.

[Fire Assassin]

I think your assassin instincts are misguiding you.

Have anything to add? Want to go into why I am wrong. I assume you have a townread so you can maybe shed some light on that?