Newbie 1720: Arctic Mafia - Game over!

[House]

If CCC is voting for Hayato, then they're unlikely to be on the same team, right?

That's a faulty assumption.

Go to the wiki and look up distancing and bussing.

Also, please don't try to make associatives preflip, it's really bad play.

Okay, looked up distancing and bussing, and this leads to confusion. Earlier in the game, you got on someone for thinking you and Hayato were teaming up as mafia and implied that you wouldn't be doing it opening if you were both mafia. But you knew about bussing and distancing being something mafia do sometimes. So that would have cancelled your argument out. Still, bussing would be retarded on Day 1 when there are only 2 mafia members. The numbers alone would make it pretty much impossible to win. CCC would have been doing some pretty scary bussing to put him one vote away from a lynch like that.

Also, I can't figure out what "make associatives preflip" means.

I didn't say either were happening here, I was just addressing your faulty assumption that it wouldn't happen.

Thinking somebody else is scum because of a different scumread is making an associative. Doing that before one of them does and is shown to be scum is really bad play because your scumread of one is based on an assumption that has nothing to do with that slot and might, in fact, be town

[Dunnstral]

I got ignored

[SirCakez]

Aragorn the Ranger has been prodded.

[CCC]

Marginal is substantially better than policy.

If you're sure of your case, yes. But I also have to seriously consider the possibility that you are mafia, throwing up a vaguely plausible-sounding case on some poor Townie. If so, you'd be doing a very good job with it...

[SirCakez]

Votecount 1.5

Dunnstral (3) - House, Skrub, boring
boring (2) - HayatoBL, Aragorn the Ranger
HayatoBL (2) - Drixx, CCC
Aragorn the Ranger (1) - Dunnstral
CCC (1) - Apricity

Not voting (0)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch someone.

Drixx is V/LA until June 27.

(expired on 2016-07-04 07:05:00) remain until day end

[CCC]

If House is town or if he's mafia, it doesn't negate his point. You can't avoid voting someone because they're not acting like a jerk.

That is worth bearing in mind, yes.

Then there's CCC's remaining on Hayato. With my Hayato theory, I was pretty sure that if Hayato was mafia, then Lazy(now CCC) was his partner. If CCC is voting for Hayato, then they're unlikely to be on the same team, right? Part of my hunch on Hayato was that he was remaining silent about Lazy/CCC's early town label. If they aren't mafia together, then it's less likely for them to be mafia individually.

It's important to bear in mind that mafia will do things to make themselves seem less mafia. Including, as the wiki shows, voting for each other. On the other hand, it would be really stupid for one mafia player to actually get his partner lynched, especially this early in the game. After House's not-quite-a-hammer of hayatoBL back here, hayatoBL was literally one vote away from a lynch for several posts; anyone could have, without warning, jumped on that last vote and lynched hayatoBL in an instant; a state of affairs that lasted until House withdraw his hammer-vote later on the same page.

[Apricity]

I will be V/LA from 6/27 (tomorrow) to Saturday afternoon (7/2)

at a summer camp. I should still be able to post about once a day, but just letting you guys know.

[CCC]

I got ignored

Let me fix that

I'm not suspicious of Boring because I believed her to be genuine and my reads are good. Notably I did mention lazy wasn't as genuine and could lean either why

Lurk stuff is maybe, but lurking is absolutely not my style regardless (this game is slow and I've been phone posting due to computer issues)

Also your point on me being afraid of experienced players is downright silly, I'm not a newbie and I didn't queue to pick on newbies

You missed one of House's points:

VOTE: Aragorn The Ranger

All of your posts seems to be skirting around the discussion adn you're not taking any stances (and seem overly defensive of your rvs vote)

This case is downright fallacious. Aragorn wasn't overly defensive of his rvs vote by any stretch of the imagination.

And the point you missed, marginal as it may be, does appear to be House's strongest point against you. The fact that you

didn't

give any response to it, therefore, isn't really a point in your favour.

So, now that I've pointed it out specifically,

do

you have a defense against this argument to make?

[Apricity]

Still a townread, but not for the question. For the effort she's putting into trying to figure things out and scumhunt. I've also been neglecting this game a little in favor of two others I'm playing, but that should change when I get more time tonight.

Which posts stuck you as particularly towny?

63, 72, and 107, although I don't totally agree with the reasoning there.

[Dunnstral]

And the point you missed, marginal as it may be, does appear to be House's strongest point against you. The fact that you didn't give any response to it, therefore, isn't really a point in your favour.

So, now that I've pointed it out specifically, do you have a defense against this argument to make?

It's wrong though, and that could be verified if you had checked Aragorn's iso for yourself

[Apricity]

Aragorn, is there a reason you placed your RVS on Boring?

No particular reason whatsoever. Its called RVS for a reason.

I don't see this as particularly defensive, overly so or otherwise.

[Apricity]

Invitation to ride the boring wagon is still open.

Consider this my RSVP.

VOTE: boring

Is this a ploy against boring by the mafia? Are you trying to lynch an innocent or are you pretty sure that she's a scum, eh?
Since I've also got a vote on her, I really gotta give this one a thought

What does ping from the little Aragorn has posted is this awkward post. I don't think the last sentence was ever followed up on either.

[Apricity]

I also think Hayato's reaction to the fake lolhammer was extremely fake, just hahahas and smilies. Speaking from my own experience, even though I'm generally a calm person, if I were at L-1 early in a game, I'd be extremely pissed. I'd be doubly pissed if it were a lolhammer. So Hayato's comparatively unconcerned reaction there doesn't seem to square with his situation at the time.

Have yet to read everything, but it's 12:30am now and I leave early tomorrow morning. Will do what reading I still have left tomorrow hopefully if I can get good wifi.

[Dunnstral]

if I were at L-1 early in a game, I'd be extremely pissed.

I won't be mad

Just disappointed

[House]

If House is town or if he's mafia, it doesn't negate his point. You can't avoid voting someone because they're not acting like a jerk.

That is worth bearing in mind, yes.

Then there's CCC's remaining on Hayato. With my Hayato theory, I was pretty sure that if Hayato was mafia, then Lazy(now CCC) was his partner. If CCC is voting for Hayato, then they're unlikely to be on the same team, right? Part of my hunch on Hayato was that he was remaining silent about Lazy/CCC's early town label. If they aren't mafia together, then it's less likely for them to be mafia individually.

It's important to bear in mind that mafia will do things to make themselves seem less mafia. Including, as the wiki shows, voting for each other. On the other hand, it would be really stupid for one mafia player to actually get his partner lynched, especially this early in the game. After House's not-quite-a-hammer of hayatoBL back here, hayatoBL was literally one vote away from a lynch for several posts; anyone could have, without warning, jumped on that last vote and lynched hayatoBL in an instant; a state of affairs that lasted until House withdraw his hammer-vote later on the same page.

True, but to be fair people generally don't bother voting after they see a "hammer". One reason I posted a big ass GIF to point it out.

[hayatoBL]

What I would recommend, and what I am deliberately trying to encourage, is to treat a newbie question that looks scummy as if it had not been asked when voting. Anything else that a newbie does, aside from asking newbie questions, can of course be treated as being worthy of a scum tell or not. So, if a newbie makes a scummy comment, then by all means vote for them, and use that comment to justify it. Just try not to discourage newbies from asking questions and getting answers.

...I hope that makes my position clearer.

Your position is clear. But I disagree with it. I understand, those kinds of scum read *might* discourage other new players or Town-boring from asking further question, but I hardly feel that it is my responsibility, because I'm doing here what I'm supposed to be doing, which is scum-hunt and help lynch the best possible candidate. It's not like I intend to discourage them from asking...

A better solution would be for *them* not to feel discourage and again, they shouldn't. Because, if I instead hid my suspicion, then I'll look weird suspecting boring without being able to explain it. This will potentially make me look like scum. Are you still going to encourage this?

Still, bussing would be retarded on Day 1 when there are only 2 mafia members.

In one game I have bussed my scum partner from D1 until end of D2. Won the game with her on D3. Sometimes retarded plan wins you the game. It's always *situtational* like House said. In retrospect, I probably overbussed my partner in that game and *that* should have been a scumtell.

I also think Hayato's reaction to the fake lolhammer was extremely fake, just hahahas and smilies. Speaking from my own experience, even though I'm generally a calm person, if I were at L-1 early in a game, I'd be extremely pissed. I'd be doubly pissed if it were a lolhammer. So Hayato's comparatively unconcerned reaction there doesn't seem to square with his situation at the time.

Simple. It *was* fake. Now what?

About Dunstrall wagon, I think I'll consider it and decide later after an ISO.

[hayatoBL]

I'm buying House's town read on Skrub. He and House can dip their toes in town-pool for now.

[Skrub]

And the point you missed, marginal as it may be, does appear to be House's strongest point against you. The fact that you didn't give any response to it, therefore, isn't really a point in your favour.

So, now that I've pointed it out specifically, do you have a defense against this argument to make?

It's wrong though, and that could be verified if you had checked Aragorn's iso for yourself

Show us how it's wrong.

[hayatoBL]

Furthermore CCC, I don't see boring or anyone else effected by this "discouragement" right now, albeit boring did claimed she was intimidated, but not anymore. So your policy lynch stance seems to have overstayed it's welcome and starting to look a bit scummy to me.

Do you honestly still see everyone(minus boring) as the same Null right now?

[CCC]

For the other newbies: click on the word ISO at the top of a post, and you get a list of all the author's posts in the current thread! That's pretty nifty.

And the point you missed, marginal as it may be, does appear to be House's strongest point against you. The fact that you didn't give any response to it, therefore, isn't really a point in your favour.

So, now that I've pointed it out specifically, do you have a defense against this argument to make?

It's wrong though, and that could be verified if you had checked Aragorn's iso for yourself

I have now checked Aragorn's iso, and I find your defense against House's accusation to be very, very dismally lacking. I'm not seeing defensiveness at all, never mind

over

-defensiveness. Between this lack of defense and your questionable defense against House's claim of "finding an excuse to lurk", you've tipped the scale juuuuust about enough for me to:

VOTE: Dunnstral

[CCC]

Speaking from my own experience, even though I'm generally a calm person, if I were at L-1 early in a game, I'd be extremely pissed. I'd be doubly pissed if it were a lolhammer. So Hayato's comparatively unconcerned reaction there doesn't seem to square with his situation at the time.

In all fairness, he could have screamed and yelled and thrown his keyboard at the wall, and we would never know. He might have calmed down before posting.

[House]

Speaking from my own experience, even though I'm generally a calm person, if I were at L-1 early in a game, I'd be extremely pissed. I'd be doubly pissed if it were a lolhammer. So Hayato's comparatively unconcerned reaction there doesn't seem to square with his situation at the time.

In all fairness, he could have screamed and yelled and thrown his keyboard at the wall, and we would never know. He might have calmed down before posting.

So you think going from screaming, yelling, and throwing the keyboard to posting smilies and jokes when he posts is a possibility?

Seriously?

[CCC]

Your position is clear. But I disagree with it. I understand, those kinds of scum read *might* discourage other new players or Town-boring from asking further question, but I hardly feel that it is my responsibility, because I'm doing here what I'm supposed to be doing, which is scum-hunt and help lynch the best possible candidate. It's not like I intend to discourage them from asking...

A better solution would be for *them* not to feel discourage and again, they shouldn't. Because, if I instead hid my suspicion, then I'll look weird suspecting boring without being able to explain it. This will potentially make me look like scum. Are you still going to encourage this?

You are

really

not helping your case here. A lynch vote that

directly

quotes asking a newbie question as reason to lynch is

going

to be intimidating, whether intentionally or not. And simply saying "they shouldn't feel discouraged" when you do something discouraging is just making me more and more inclined to reinstate my policy lynch.

I do think Dunnstral is more likely to be mafia than you are. But the margin is very slight, and I can very easily see myself reinstating my policy lynch on you if Dunnstral is able to offer a half-decent defense to House's detailed read.

Furthermore CCC, I don't see boring or anyone else effected by this "discouragement" right now, albeit boring did claimed she was intimidated, but not anymore. So your policy lynch stance seems to have overstayed it's welcome and starting to look a bit scummy to me.

Do you honestly still see everyone(minus boring) as the same Null right now?

My current rankings for the players, from most to least scummy:

Dunnstral
House
hayatoBL
Apricity=Skrub=Drixx



boring

You will notice that Aragorn the Ranger is not on the list; that's because he's posted so little that I can't read even a flicker of anything off him (I'm choosing to assume that it means his computer has been trampled by an angry rhinoceros, and waiting to try to get a read on his replacement before I rank him). The distance between Dunnstral and Apracity/Skrub/Drixx is marginal; anyone in that top section could be mafia (though I very much doubt that Dunnstral and House are

both

mafia). The big gap before boring is, however, a major gap; I would be

very

surprised if Boring turned out to be mafia.

[CCC]

So you think going from screaming, yelling, and throwing the keyboard to posting smilies and jokes when he posts is a possibility?

Seriously?

Given how much this game depends on impressions? Yes, I do think it's possible. I don't think it's

likely

, but I do think it's possible.

[House]

So you think going from screaming, yelling, and throwing the keyboard to posting smilies and jokes when he posts is a possibility?

Seriously?

Given how much this game depends on impressions? Yes, I do think it's possible. I don't think it's

likely

, but I do think it's possible.

Now that is a crazy thing to hold onto.