Mini 1804: Poker Mafia (Game Over)

[Persivul]

Holy shit, you spent an hour just because someone said

you always scum read me

?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Holy shit, you spent an hour just because someone said

you always scum read me

?

If it takes an hour to run down enough games to give me a conclusion that I can take back to the thread ... yes.

Why the pointless post?

[Infinity 324]

I like MoI's defense of mm, but lane has no reason to go all in as scum if mm is town, which basically debunks a large part of the case on him. (I didn't think it was scummy in the first played, I tried to bluff too cause I wasn't used to this many players in a poker game).

Lane and mm are both town guys. Seriously.

[lane0168]

If you think MM is scum who is his partner? Is Lane also scum?

Why did you throw my name and only my name into that hat? That makes no sense

[Infinity 324]

I don't like how MoI is using a meta argument to try to prove he's town and not having paranoia that he might be wrong on rc again, but ehh his other posts have been so town

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't like how MoI is using a meta argument to try to prove he's town and not having paranoia that he might be wrong on rc again, but ehh his other posts have been so town

Frankly I don't like how a number of your post straddle both sides of the fence in a manner that suggests you'll go with whichever way is most expedient. Seriously this post and 325 recently are both "Meh this person could be Town could be scum". Which goes without saying.

The point of the meta argument is that if Red Coyote was being honest his assessment of my play should say I'm probably Town. But that's not the conclusion he reaches.

Not to mention the fact that his initial post was deliberately misleading. What do you think of that specifically Infinity?

[Infinity 324]

I look like I'm being indecisive cause I am, still trying to figure this game out :/

I think the wording he used ("no matter our alignments") was misleading, but his point was that you arguing for him being scum was normal even if he was town. So the point was meant to be in favor of him being town as opposed to you being scum, and I think he has a point.

What do you make of the fact that you thought he was scum in those 3 games and he ended up being town? Does that make you at all worried that you're wrong again?

[Persivul]

The point of the meta argument is that if Red Coyote was being honest his assessment of my play should say I'm probably Town. But that's not the conclusion he reaches.

A more likely possibility is simply that his memory was off. I've said similar things as town and found I was wrong after researching, and I've only been her a year.

[The MM]

Because I am a newbie. But you're confusing "newbie" with "bad. I'm bad only relatively to you, maybe, because I'm not good at reading people.

@MM: I can't really follow the logic. [Mafia scum Pro's ---- you ------ Mafia scum newbies ------ everyone else] Like that from good to bad?

You know, the scale of being good and bad isn't exactly one-dimensional. There's about as many scales as there are aspects to Mafia, which is a lot. But if you want to make a flat scale, bother to adjust the levels. It'd more look like this:
[MafiaScum Pros ------------------------- MM - Mafia Scum Newbie ----(give or take a few)---- Non Mafia players]

I like MoI's defense of mm, but lane has no reason to go all in as scum if mm is town, which basically debunks a large part of the case on him. (I didn't think it was scummy in the first played, I tried to bluff too cause I wasn't used to this many players in a poker game). Lane and mm are both town guys. Seriously.

I agree with the basic idea. Lane looks pretty townish to me now.

I don't like how MoI is using a meta argument to try to prove he's town and not having paranoia that he might be wrong on rc again, but ehh his other posts have been so town

It only takes one slip, you know. But so far I've somewhat liked MoI's vibes -- barring that. Once again, pure gut...

---

I need to reread a bunch of things, three pages of posts since my last visit... Another post incoming.

[The MM]

[Plan about scum giving each other money.] I called

to

break that [..]

Here he basically tells us that he tried to do something good for town by calling, through breaking scum's plan. The word "to" is the important bit, if he said "I called and I broke that" for example, it would be a different thing. His response wasn't very convincing, giving all sorts of reasons why he called, and saying that I/we are reading too much into it. It just seems to me he tried to look like a white knight fighting for the good of town.

What's so wrong about it. I called to break the idea, just not in the most effective way. Other reasons are at the side.
Also, about that white knight thing: all townies are town?

The bad part of MM’s full readslist is not that it is not strong. I don’t expect that on Page 4. Why it may be an example of scum play is it appeared right after MM had drawn a couple votes (Infinity and Lane) and has the feel of “Have to post content to look Town before a wagon develops”.

That was the plan in a shellnut, though you put it to parody levels. But wanting to look as Town as possible is not limited to scum.

Admitting to try and look town because of pressure. Admitting it doesn't really make it better in my opinion.

You're assuming it made things worse, but you're not even saying "it's an easy way for scum to break debate" or any reason though.

And to all of you who say I'm playing bad, that's normal: this is my second game here, and it's months after my first due to a quite tense situation I got into IRL. As for being hasty, I was: one of the primal needs of the human body is sleep, and I was in lack of it. I'll be coming up with a readslist as well as I can, but keep in mind that didn't help me much in my first game so don't be surprised if I only dig myself deeper and you end up lynching me.

Your votes for me basically say I'm transparent scum, guys; which would mean I'm bad. I'm not.
My reads are null with very soft leans in case you can read and spot them.

In the first quote he tells people to keep in mind that he might be playing bad, because it is only his second game etc. So, he is pre-emptively defending himself with the newbie/being bad card. Then in the second quote he says that he wouldn't be so bad and transparent as scum. I think he's using both sides of the argument here.

Scum are usually more careful; I trust this applies to myself too -- but you wouldn't know. Also, there's a difference between one play and the player. One bad play does not necessarily make a bad player.

[Alchemist21]

♠ ♡ DAY 1 VOTECOUNT ♢ ♣

MM(4):

lane, Red Coyote, BBT, Qubixes

Persivul(2):

MM, FA

FA_Q2(2):

Persivul, Infinity

Red Coyote:

Magna

Not Voting(2):

Fire Assassin, Something Smart

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

The current pot is $250

The amount to call is $100

Still in the hand: MagnaOfIllusion, Persivul, Fire Assassin

Fire Assassin must act.

Spoiler: Betting History

Bet orders:
Ante
Persivul bets 50
Bbt folds
Mm folds
Qubixes folds
Infinity folds
Something smart folds
Magnaofillusion raises to 100
FA_Q2 folds
RC folds
Persivul calls

Day ends in (expired on 2016-07-05 12:30:00)

[MagnaofIllusion]

I think the wording he used ("no matter our alignments") was misleading, but his point was that you arguing for him being scum was normal even if he was town. So the point was meant to be in favor of him being town as opposed to you being scum, and I think he has a point.

What do you make of the fact that you thought he was scum in those 3 games and he ended up being town? Does that make you at all worried that you're wrong again?

Um whut? That’s a not a point for him being Town.

I’ll state again – I was 1 of 1 (100%, small sample size aside) in reading him as scum when he was. I was 1 of 4 (25%) reading him as Town when he was. But you are just tossing aside the fact I did read him as scum successfully and saying “Whelp, he read him wrong when RC was Town often enough that RC must be Town” which is frankly a stupid conclusion.

Is it possible I’m wrong? Of course. Mafia is not an exact science. How many games have you been wrong about players? Does that mean you should not pursue them in the future if you think they are scum?

Also – given your strong Town read on MM what do you think of the players on his wagon as it stands now? You think Lane is Town. For reference -

MM(4): lane, Red Coyote, BBT, Qubixes

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Fire Assassin

He's posting all over site but not here thus playing to his scum meta.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Fire Assassin

He's posting all over site but not here thus playing to his scum meta.

From what games do you get that meta?

I just checked two of his games.

In Micro 597 he was scum and was the second highest poster.
In Mini 1785 he was town and his post count was in the middle of the pack.

So, while I'd like an easy answer, I'm not seeing it.

And I'd like the douchebag to at least come in to call or fold.

[Infinity 324]

I’ll state again – I was 1 of 1 (100%, small sample size aside) in reading him as scum when he was. I was 1 of 4 (25%) reading him as Town when he was. But you are just tossing aside the fact I did read him as scum successfully and saying “Whelp, he read him wrong when RC was Town often enough that RC must be Town” which is frankly a stupid conclusion.

Dafuq

I said nothing about "RC must be town", I'm just saying that it makes it slightly less likely for RC to be scum and I'm saying most townies would at least mention that or take it into consideration

How many games have you been wrong about players? Does that mean you should not pursue them in the future if you think they are scum?

No, but you might use your past experience with a player to help determine whether they are scum in the first place and/or pursure them with less convinction.

Also – given your strong Town read on MM what do you think of the players on his wagon as it stands now? You think Lane is Town. For reference -

MM(4): lane, Red Coyote, BBT, Qubixes

I don't know yet. If there has to be scum on the wagon, I would guess BBT, but it could definitely be all misguided town.

[Persivul]

In Micro 597 he was scum and was the second highest poster.

I can't find another scum game for him.

VOTE: Magna

[MagnaofIllusion]

I can't find another scum game for him.

If you can't find a scum game in here you are not looking very hard -

http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... &sr=topics

[lane0168]

What is that search?

[lane0168]

I also found 2. The one he was middle of the road he replaced halfway through and still had a very high count.

I don't like he's posting elsewhere, I haven't checked the validity, but what are you talking about moi?

[lane0168]

Looks like a case of engaged in one game and not really all that engaged in the others. Would be nice to see him though

[lane0168]

If you think MM is scum who is his partner? Is Lane also scum?

Why did you throw my name and only my name into that hat? That makes no sense

Hello? Magna?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So, I decided to play some Mafia and you guys are the lucky people who get to see my posting.

I'm too good to you.

[lane0168]

Was... Was that it? I personally feel honored.

[RedCoyote]

So, I decided to play some Mafia and you guys are the lucky people who get to see my posting.

I'm too good to you.

[RedCoyote]

I am not anti-Fire wagon, but I want to see MoI-Pers discuss a bit more more.

Who are we waiting on Poker-wise? This it taking entirely too long.