Mini 1800 - Game Over

[MathBlade]

Okay talk with me. I gave you concise thoughts you did not respond. What are your thoughts about my reads?

[Masquerade]

@Magna: I reread Mecha around twilight and in 2 posts he goes from not great but understandable hammer to all kinds of bad hammer. My Mecha-read today comes from his scummy response to my knowing about scum daytalk.
Mecha not wanting to vote Karnos today because people have bad reasons for scumreading him looks weird because yesterday for a long time he was scumreading Karnos. What's changed?

So who do you think is in best position to call a wagon on Town bad? That’s classic scum 101 “Claw for Towncred on a Mislynch” play.

Sorry what?

I still keep getting the feeling Magna is manipulating me..

Keeping my vote on Karnos. As long as he keeps throwing stuff around to see what sticks and not committing to a read 'because I know I'm not even 50% accurate' he deserves it. Also, how is Johnny not a scumread for defending you and Wingback and me to a lesser extent were?

JohnnyFarrar: I really don't see the scum read here, but

maybe I'm being bias because he defended me to a degree.

He can't keep using the "busy" excuse forever, especially as we approach the end of the game day. null/town

I also still find it weird you would scumread me today on one ping. How does that warrant an immediate vote when I was a townread at the end of Day 1?

Spoiler: Karnos progression

Readlist: I know, it was intentional. I don't have a strong read on you [Masq]. Your slot was absent for a long time before you replaced in, so I don't have a strong read for it prior to you either. However, see my read of wingback - the same logic *could* apply here, but you have been more subtle and less confident so I don't think it's nearly as likely that you could be a scum going for town cred.

Masquerade: Was mostly a null read, but the recent interactions with Mathblade moves him to

a solid town read. My sense is that masq and mathblade couldn't be same alignment.

Mathblade: See above. I am in the minority here though, and I am will to switch votes to prevent a no-lynch, but would much prefer to just lynch mathblade. scum

Wow, I wasn't expecting that so quickly.

Lets hope for a scum flip!

Anyway, if anyone wants to shoot out an investigation suggestions I will take them into consideration, though I have a person in mind already.

No apparent issues with my vote, he shouldn't have as he just stated intent himself and when someone unvoted had placed his vote for L-1.
1102 is where he votes me today.

To be clear, Mathblade is still scum. I'll revote him upon request. What I noticed from masquerade demands a vote.

[MathBlade]

/me hugs Masquerade

The Karnos train based on everyone else's "site meta" won't go anywhere I believe he is scum I think you see the light but there are staunch people who just say no. Hence me buddy hunting to try to figure out how to be somewhat productive in the thread.

Assume Karnos is scum: Who do you think is scum with him?

[MathBlade]

And the other question is are you bussing now or just trying to get me to start up on Karnos again.

Ugh Going to Shadowrun will think about this afterwards.

[Titus]

Or Masq is town and you both buy the same dumb thoughts. *smacks you*

Seriously, concise isn't anyone's thing. I wish I could lock y'all up for crimes against brevity.

I actually am not feeling many wagons but I would go Dier at deadline.

[Masquerade]

If Karnos is scum I see a good chance for Magna being scum as well. He came in after Karnos claimed, he could have easily caught up knowing he would have an 'out' I'm not saying this happened, but it is a possibility. He completely discarded his scumread on Karnos and doesn't take a stance on the claim other than 'we don't lynch uncc'ed pr's in a closed setup'
I have scumreads on people that logically can't be scum together, like for instance Magna/Mecha (I don't think they can be scum together based on their communication, but both have said/done very questionable things.) and that makes me lean towards multiball. We only had one kill but there are several options for it, and I also remember one time playing a multiball where 1 of the scumfactions didn't have a factional kill.

Also, 1253 looks like an afterthought as if you just realized you were not supposed to townread me. Which it looks like you do in 1251. Why can't I be buddying you btw?
And no, I am not pushing Karnos with the intent to get you riled up again. I just can't see his recent posting coming from a town-mindset (if I was a townread why does he immediately assume I'm lying instead of first asking me?) and that made me agree with you about how we shouldn't just disregard scummy behaviour after a claim.

Gonna continue isoreads and see if I can make sense of my thoughts and get some decent reads.

I don't know yet about Dierfire, Titus. I mean, he could be scum but that conflicts with other reads I have so I want to do a reread first. Can you give your opinion on what I'm pushing Karnos for? I think I made it pretty concise in my previous post and here even more. This goes for others as well, I would like some feedback to help improve my reads overall.

[Titus]

Claim, no result, noob

Dude is obvtown yo.

Take a look at other ppl. Ty.

[MechaGoomba]

I have scumreads on people that logically can't be scum together [...] and that makes me lean towards multiball.
[...]
I don't know yet about Dierfire, Titus. I mean, he could be scum but that conflicts with other reads I have so I want to do a reread first.

Discounting the fact that this definitely isn't multiball (either the scumteams would be different sizes or there'd be a 2:1 town:scum ratio), I find it disturbing that you're considering multiball only insofar as it supports your reads and then dropping it.

[Masquerade]

Excuse me?

VOTE: Mecha

Where do we know there is 3 scum?

[Masquerade]

Oh for crying out loud, I reread that post like a dozen times to make sure I got that right :/

Ok, dude, Mecha, we started with 13 players. It's perfectly possible to be multiball. Why would there be an uneven number of scum?

[Titus]

VOTE: Mecha

Baaaaaah. Get flocked scum.

[MathBlade]

Masquerade to answer your thoughts, I am conflicted about you.

My gut is screaming to me that you are town. Like ever since your apology post I see a radical shift. I like this shift and it feels town. But at the same time my logical side then screams "look at how neat their argument is". Look at how they are pushing exactly what you want now that Dierfire is getting ran up.

See the scary thing is I suggested Karnos you and potentially Dierfire on D1. Like I literally want to be wrong. But it is like a back and forth in my mind. After I hit submit I realized I did not accurately portray my thoughts and followed it up.

About the Mecha wagon I have a very strong suspicion they are town. It is very unlikely to be multiball. Still possible but unlikely.

If it were multiball I would have expected more dissent on D1. The voting pattern strongly suggests a single pattern team. Not only that but if a second team were to have existed they would have had to either A) shot at Wingback B) had no kill or C) Shot at a person who was doctored/jailkept

I guess maybe it is possible but that is way too many coincidences for me.

However 3 v 13 even with daychat seems underpowered for scum, especially if Karnos is town like majority seems to think.

[MathBlade]

@Titus --Be useful and setup spec this while I am driving home. Be home in an hour or two.

[karnos]

Oh for crying out loud, I reread that post like a dozen times to make sure I got that right :/

Ok, dude, Mecha, we started with 13 players. It's perfectly possible to be multiball. Why would there be an uneven number of scum?

But in 1197 you were sure that I was in error by suspecting two diametrically opposed players as both scum.

Another one of those weird inconsistencies. It seems you assumed it couldn't possibly be multiball back in 1197 and now suddenly you are sure it is a possibility?

I do find it interesting that mecha seems to be positive there are 3 scum, he indicated that earlier in the game and I pointed it out and apparently nobody thought it was a notable statement then either. Is there some basic formula rule of normal games that makes 4 scum an impossibility?

[MechaGoomba]

Where do we know there is 3 scum?

For a 13 player game, I assume 3 scum unless there is evidence to the contrary. "OK there was only 1 kill night 1 but doctors exist you can't prove me wrong and my reads don't make sense if it isn't multiball" is not evidence to the contrary by a long shot.
Do you seriously think basic knowledge of how to construct a balanced game is a scumslip? karnos did the same thing you're doing in 382. He was wrong then and you're wrong now.

[Titus]

@Titus --Be useful and setup spec this while I am driving home. Be home in an hour or two.

Setup spec is largely useless, but could give scum hindsight into whether I am a PR or not. *squint*

We have one night kill and a neopolitan claim. Singleball no sk is default. No evidence otherwise.

[Titus]

Where do we know there is 3 scum?

For a 13 player game, I assume 3 scum unless there is evidence to the contrary. "OK there was only 1 kill night 1 but doctors exist you can't prove me wrong and my reads don't make sense if it isn't multiball" is not evidence to the contrary by a long shot.
Do you seriously think basic knowledge of how to construct a balanced game is a scumslip? karnos did the same thing you're doing in 382. He was wrong then and you're wrong now.

Seems to be written from a Karnos is known town perspective.

[MathBlade]

@Titus --
I think that I must dumb because I don't see what you and Masquerade hopped onto?
Most everyone has been suggesting three person scum teams and I find that most likely too. But why is Mecha scum for thinking that?

Their play to me has been so obvtown to me and this looks more like Masquerade reaching and lynch shopping more than Mecha scum.

Why did you feel the case was strong enough to vote and push even after 1259?
Can you explain your Mecha scum read?

I don't really see Mecha and Karnos as scum together and I scum read Karnos a lot.

[Titus]

That's the problem. It's not that Mecha isn't scummy, it doesn't fit in your worldview of Karnos scum. I'm pretty sure on Pers slot plus Mecha at the moment. When he was ok being linked to you and not Persy, that's a big hint.

[MathBlade]

@Titus -- You seem to be reaching only to insanity and really trying my patience. Sure you call Mecha scummy and think Mecha and Persivul are scum together but I just don't see it. I don't see Persivul scum making me drag my head out of my ass where I had lodged it. Of course Math always has it backwards and Titus always has it right.

I know one thing is for certain if I had to pick between someone who gives a damn right now to present an actual argument when asked and you I know who I'd pick.

[Masquerade]

UNVOTE:

I don;t know anymore and I don't care anymore. Tell me who to lynch.
Not Math.

[MathBlade]

@Masq I am not sure whether you mean I don't tell you my opinion or you mean that you don't want to lynch me. I can't tell if you are town genuinely frustrated or that you don't care because you are scum fucking with me.

If you want my opinion I will gladly give it.

[Masquerade]

I meant I don't want to vote you today. I don't really want your opinion either because I know it's all based on a Karnos-scumread. If you're wrong about Karnos, all your reads need reevaluating. Therefor I can't trust your reads.
I can't read Dierfire so I can't base any opinions based on other players' reads on him which sucks tremendously.
I have reasons for believing Magna is scum, and I have reasons for believing Mecha is scum, the tone in their posts makes me pretty sure they are not scum together. So that's massively conflicting.
And now I am frustrated. I'm stuck and I can reread all the stuff I want but it;s not helping me clear up the above.

[Masquerade]

VOTE: Karnos
I want clarity on this slot.

[Masquerade]

I can do Magna too because I still don't like the way he handled Karnos' claim and he feels manipulative and if anyone wants to talk to me about it please go ahead. Especially if you don't agree.