Newbie 1718 [Game Over!] Mafia

[gigabyteTroubadour]

What about Racer/Kaori?

This is what I'm thinking, but I feel bad lynching people who just replaced in without some defense on their part.

[RadiantCowbells]

I need to make a full catch up post. that will be tonight.

[RadiantCowbells]

Kraska. What's your read on me and how do you think of me as a player?

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm caught up. I'm not going forward without a Kaori replacement and a response from Kraska.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

One, I find it incredibly odd that you, Giga, dont think both scum could have been on the wagon i pushed.

ok like i've already responded to this but it's still ???

why is it incredibly odd? My two consistent scumreads are off of the wagon, and my three strongest and most consistent townreads were on it... I feel like for some reason you want me to scumread you but that makes zero sense.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Dr Pepper

This vote is going back down for now though.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: Dr Pepper

This vote is going back down for now though.

do you mind giving a readslist? Don't really worry about reasoning, it's just I don't know the order you scumread Racer/Kaori/DP, or who you're townreading? I'm OK if you want to wait but it's still bothering me a little.

[Lycanfire]

I'm caught up. I'm not going forward without a Kaori replacement and a response from Kraska.

VOTE: Dr Pepper

This vote is going back down for now though.

Then this is a problem. My post #808 is laser focused at you RC. I guess this is my answer?

cases incoming

I'll start off by saying that DP as scum in Kraska scum scenario is a red herring. Why would I declare DP most likely scum partner and not vote the scummy PR claim? No, in fact I put my vote on Kraska and said it was going to stay there. As I said in my first post there was another partner I was considering, and that's who the post was aimed at.

Let me preface this by saying that I will probably eternally nullread RC and be suspicious of him because my reads never match his own. Going over this game I disagreed with him all over, but I also disagreed with him until day 2 Newbie 1717 until he became obvtown. So long as RC pushes his reads, I think I can stand his playstyle. That's what I wanted to think until I saw these exchanges.

Kraska's entrance was really town, I liked her vote, and I was townreading her predecessors.

This post was beyond a joke to me. Kraska later admits that #240 was a bad post. If there's something I know I need to be more assertive about, it's perception and who is trying to control it. Kraska lands at his towniest slot. Too obvious for scum!RC? I spoke about "interesting interactions", and this is what I meant.

Feel free to share your thoughts but after seeing Kraska flail around for a page, I was surprised to see a good post like this come out of Kraska:

Spoiler: Post 306, 309, 313(!!)

tbh the thing i find most curious about this is how some of the people on the wagon do not have harlii as the highest scum read, and yet quickly jumped on the wagon.
let's see.
DP insists foe is scum, but then happily goes for a harlii lynch. why?
dont know about house but post 207 obviously means harlii was not a main scum read for him. i get the impression house prefers a DP lynch instead. am i wrong?
giga's changing votes makes it difficult to know who she really reads as scum, this is what i meant when i said changing votes so often is problematic. dont know how serious she is about getting harlii lynched. giga i would appreciate it if you weigh in on this
dont know about RC, but i get the impression they've been throwing votes so far to test reactions(?)(????)
for the record i have harlii as null leaning red, mostly because i feel like they have not made a real push on anyone so far, not really an appreciable read as you can see so i wont join this wagon until i have more solid reason to suspect harlii
oh and racer's reasoning for why harlii should be lynched is too weak


atm pretty sure there's atleast one scum in this pool: mns, DP, racer
fos: house and rc

Posts 306 and 309 in the context of the Harlii wagon are very good, but 313 is the one I liked the most.

RC wasn't as happy as I was:

I really hate Kraska's recent posting.

Since I didn't think I'd get much out of RC as a player I had to go by motive. Forget town!RC, would a townie think this? I couldn't wrap my head around it, so I considered scum motives. You could think of many, but RC didn't seem too bothered beyond thinking it was bad. He wasn't the only one, but taking Harlii's posting seriously esp. after they decided to sheep RC is pretty pointless. In my eyes post #318 was a distancing post and an excuse argue Kraska stopped being his top town read at around this post if ever questioned about later support of Kraska.

Finally, RC's ISO is so incredibly in depth for him, but in the end they all point to reads that are meanngless to me, in addition to that I'm not used to him being so unsure. It seems like he's going with the flow while not immediately calling for people to hang. This game was a clusterfuck and a half to read through, but RC proved in Newbie 1717 that he is able to ignore noise, protest, other peoples cases and whatever else is necessary to stay on his target.

Meanwhile, the "BP must claim" proposition was the most confident I've seen him all game. He pursued the BP dilemma like he was scumhunting which is uncharacteristic for this thread anyway. He got his claim despite DrPepper not having to say anything (??????????). In the DP as town scenario this only hurts us, so why do it? Motive says scum!RC could argue that pushing so hard for this is town, but I would say that scum!RC has a lot to gain and nothing to lose for this push. It's only scum!RC that could know whether there was a BP present (presence of RB), town!RC can't know for sure, and can only point us to theory. The cat comes leaping out the bag and RC goes on an emotional tangent the moment DP pushes back. He shouldn't know whether DP is telling the truth or not but pressured someone they previously townread hard (#123/125/261/362). None of this looks right ignoring the fact DP didn't have to claim.

This actually all looks pretty good on RC. You want to see someone active, aggressive, but this is topped by what looks like a genuine display of emotion... This outburst is something I noticed in Newbie 1717 too when he had enough with one of the goons tunneling me (this host, actually), swore at them and said he would policy lynch them if he continued. RC then lamented that he was going to die anyway (because town!RC reasons) and fake claimed cop as tracker and inno in a gambit. So, my problem with RC going allcaps lamenting about his impending death either by lynch or NK is that the last time he let his emotions bleed into the game, he was lying, and claimed inno on scum to get people to sheep his read. Whatever is going on here, it's anti-town to be sure either by manipulation or staging the BP claim.

Meanwhile #657+827. Are you prompting him to say something?

[Lycanfire]

answers

So, if you're going to scumread Kraska, I have to ask – why would she pick MNS as her mislynch and not change it when no one else joined her? There was a perfectly fine mis (assuming that DP/Kraska is the scumteam) lynch in Harlii that started pretty shortly after that.

It really doesn't matter who scum!Kraska picks so long as they appear to be scumhunting. It was a lazy, awful post, so it's suspicious.

Two. Lycan makes me okay with my vote. Me ignoring a would be easy lynch would be the shitty thing to do if I was scum. Why fight a losijg battle with RC. And then you discredit my Racer vote despite the fact that me and RC called for a truce for 3 days.

1) ofc you want the easy lynch as scum. kaori is the easiest lynch available rn.
2) Why is RC a losing battle? They're your top read aren't they?
3) Yes, you voted racer because you gave your top read a "truce". Get real.

I'm honestly considering replacing out if this is the level of scum play in this game. Not challenging or fun in the least and lazy as hell

People don't usually put conclusions at the beginning of their post unless they're creating the narrative afterwards.

Meanwhile, #475 doesn't help your case at all. Admitting a bad post is bad is the only thing you can do. Accusing someone isn't going to make them appear if they're scum-you have to ask them questions. If you want to make them try to fly under the radar, then accuse them all you want. Also, the "now being interested in Kaori" bit is hilarious. I'll take this opportunity to answer Giga.

I would seriously give you so much towncred if you hammer right now.

You just done even know.

hey

@lycan and kaori

why do you think House felt this way about Kraska?

Spoiler: 440,441

Seriously? Is this your attempt at deflecting a lynch. I am pretty sure you're scum now. If by some weird chance you are saying the truth and you're town, then not only did you play pretty badly, but you're also making baseless recs for future lynches.

You're scum though, period. And I'm not letting this lynch not happen.

I think we only need two more votes. There is no need to rush though, I'm going to see who will buy your shit.
there is no reason for me to follow your read on dp, it amounts to nothing more than meta. Likewise i did not give much weight to the experienced player's comments on RC, i just put him out of the picture of day 1 because I know his voting patterns will speak more volumes than the explanations he won't make (and gets away with not making for some weird reason). Just because I've not paid much attention to him on this day doesn't mean I won't in day 2 (if i stay alive, that is).

If we do wind up lynching Kaori and he flips town, I'm going to become very interested in kraska.

Kraska said he wasn't going to not let the Kaori lynch go through. House noted this, and knowingly asked Kraska to hammer when there was still two days left. Kraska obliged, but the obvious consequence was that if Aishuu and Kaori are town, Kraska is scummy as sin for wanting two mislynches.

Exactly why is harlii town then? Because I'm scum reading him for the exact same reason.

1) Harlii/Fiddler voted Racer day 1, not Aishuu.
2) Harlii was obv noob town

3)

Overall, from what I can read, this seems to be some pretty weak logic and your case against Kraska is flimsy at best. I'm getting a slightly scummy vibe off this, tbh, but I can't figure out why a scum!Lycan would want to lynch Kraska.

This is 100% obvtown. My argument was intentionally flawed.

then imply that koari acquitted himself as town later. Except koari has done pretty much nth since his entrance+accidental alt reveal. He has done nth since house's tunnel on him. That is like pretty much the bulk of his posts in the game so far. So you admit it's scummy lol

1) Reads the same scumteam as me
2) Didn't scumread Harlii
3) Wasn't on the Aishuu wagon

[Lycanfire]

Anyways, clearing Kaori/Fiddler was necessary to put the scumteam on the Aishuu wagon. The scumteam is there, and it's either Kraska/RC or RC/DP.

[Lycanfire]

i made an error in #833 by implying that DP wants a kaori lynch. i thought he said in #810 "ignoring an easy lynch would be a shitty thing to do as scum"

[DoctorPepper]

VOTE: Dr Pepper

This vote is going back down for now though.

You've done jack shit since the truce, you havent analyzed anyone else and you're continuing this low activity shit???

Jeez. I should have never agreed to that truce.

VOTE: RC

[DoctorPepper]

RC is a losing battle since all of you are gonna sheep him anyway. But what the hell was this. You call for a truce on a promise of focusing on other people and scum hunting yet 5 days go by and nothing happens. Notice how he's always busy yet somehow the days I was fighting him, he was active as hell. Somehow he's only active when people suspect him, but he does jack shit when its gone. The "Im busy" shit goes away once you proved you weren't busy enough not to respond to attacks.

RC or me guys

[kraska77]

It really doesn't matter who scum!Kraska picks so long as they appear to be scumhunting. It was a lazy, awful post, so it's suspicious.

you're still misrepping my post and refuse to acknowledge it as a pressure post/vote for a player who was being both shade and inactive. obviously i was not going to disclose as much early in the game when mns kept coming back and not really doing much or saying much, because that would betray the point. people got off the mns wagon and were moving on to others so i had to be aggressive to make up for the lessening pressure and push him to do something so i can confidently sort him out.
keep telling yourself a utility post is a bad post

im really exhausted and brain dead right now so i'll come back later after getting some sleep

Kraska. What's your read on me and how do you think of me as a player?

nwell i suppose it's pretty obvious im hard townreading you at this point. dont know what lycan means by you pushing and manipulating perception when you have pretty much been riding solo and have an idgaf attitude the whole game and it was others who joined you of their own volition(without any effort on your part to make them join you) even though they had their own scum reads. RC's case on foe is nuanced and intuitive as hell and that makes it extremely genuine and RC has been expressing suspicion of foe since earlier in the game. i dont see why RC would not have saved himself the trouble and let house ride the racer lynch to happen, why would RC put all the spotlight on himself and case a person who was not even a lynch candidate prior to that point? you know the stuff that rubs me the wrong way in lycan's case against RC is im pretty sure if RC were NKed day 1 and house was in his place now, he would have used the same exact arguments against house. the point im getting across here is lycan is conveniently pointing fingers at the person under the spotlight(the player who got the day 1 lynch wagon going). pretty sure he would have also accused house of manipulating perception or whatever. theres other reasons i can think of for why RC does not make any sense as scum but im too tired now and this is enough to get my point across i guess

dp's meltdown in his row with RC reminds me a lot of my meltdown when i was pressured last game i played(town). his earlier stuff on foe was bs imo like i said. towards the end of day 1 had him as a null with very mild red lean. but after the episode with RC i have him as null leaning town

it's koari/lycan or koari/fiddler or lycan/fiddler in order of most likely to least likely for me.

[innocentvillager]

	VOTECOUNT 2.2
Player	Being voted by (in chronological order)	Number of Votes
1. Kaori Miyazono	gigabyteTroubadour	1
2. fiddlercrabontheroof
3. gigabyteTroubadour
4. Lycanfire	kraska77	1
6. kraska77	Lycanfire	1
7. RadiantCowbells	DoctorPepper	1
8. DoctorPepper	RadiantCowbells	1

Not voting: Kaori Miyazono, fiddlercrabontheroof

NEW!!!!

Deadline to lynch is in (expired on 2016-07-16 21:37:02)

With 7 eligible to vote, it's 4 votes to lynch

Please let me know if there are errors in the VC, or if you have any questions in general. Don't forget to bold such requests to me.

[Kaori Miyazono]

Hey guys, sorry, had work and life stuff. I will catch up here either tonight after work or tomorrow adter class.

[fiddlercrabontheroof]

it's koari/lycan or koari/fiddler or lycan/fiddler in order of most likely to least likely for me.

Why do you scum read me so much?

[kraska77]

its harlii's non committal play that makes me scum read the slot
sorry fiddler but im really not feeling okay right now
i'll get back to this and lycan's part of the post about harlii and explain everything later

[fiddlercrabontheroof]

Alright, well feel better Kraska!
Also my vote for Koari is dependent on her upcoming post, but I'm still declaring intent.

[DoctorPepper]

it's koari/lycan or koari/fiddler or lycan/fiddler in order of most likely to least likely for me.

Why do you scum read me so much?

Your slot was scummy and your play today hasn't been towny. I don't remember a single stance from you

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Since I didn't think I'd get much out of RC as a player I had to go by motive. Forget town!RC, would a townie think this?

Kraska, if you keep ignoring my posts, I'm going to suspect you have a fake agenda.

Idk, Lycan, someone else besides RC and Harlii seemed to dislike that set of posts, and they're confirmed town...

---

Although, I am starting to feel a bit shakier about town!RC. Lycan, you were in 1717, which was running concurrently with our game's day 1. Why was RC much more active in that game than he is here if he was also busy? I also do think it's weird that as DP said, RC hasn't utilized the three-day truce. This isn't enough for me to change my read, but it's just making me uneasy that RC isn't doing anything too helpful when he posts now. I really would like more content from him.

As for where I stand, it's either Kaori/Lycan or DP/RC from my PoV. I still mostly nulltownread the latter two scumteam, so it's mostly in my head if I can disprove DP's claim. For some reason my gut wants to townread Lycan but it really doesn't make much sense, which is also throwing me off. This game is hella weird and I swear to god I'm not this waffly most of the time.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Koari, ignore my questions from before, I felt I asked them with too much confbias in mind, that they kinda sucked, and that they lack relevancy now. If you feel differently though it can't hurt to answer them, yeah?

Here's a buttload of different questions though.

• Since it's part of your playstyle to find townies and now that House is conftown: What do you now make of the interactions between House and Racer? You had them as a possible scumteam, so previously I would assume you interpreted it as SvS. Has your read changed?
  
  I skimmed through a good portion of your (not that) recent newbie games and I really hate the fact that you, and
  very specifically
  you, brought your own meta into this game. Thoughts?
  
  Who did you expect to be the nightkill and why? (yes this is the same question i kept spamming)
  
  Are you able to explain some of the crypticness between you and DP from D1? I'm referring to #433's post-edit and #483.
  
  Assume Kraska dropped dead right now and flipped town. Who is the scumteam from your PoV?
  
  Assume RC dropped dead right now and flipped town. Who is the scumteam from your PoV?
  
  This is asking Kaori as a player, not the slot: Why do you typically not vote? Again, reading through your recentish newbie games, you almost never vote regardless of your alignment. It's just an interesting playstyle and I'd like to know what the logistics behind it is.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

ok js i take back what i was saying about feeling uneasy about town!RC, I just reread the last few pages and I think I'm still OK with it.

But I do want a lot more content from him, that sentiment is the same.

[Lycanfire]

Idk, Lycan, someone else besides RC and Harlii seemed to dislike that set of posts, and they're confirmed town...

citing house when he's unclear what he was referring too is awfully lazy. if i want a confirmed townies' opinion why don't you give me yours? or is there a problem with that question?

Although, I am starting to feel a bit shakier about town!RC. Lycan, you were in 1717, which was running concurrently with our game's day 1. Why was RC much more active in that game than he is here if he was also busy? I also do think it's weird that as DP said, RC hasn't utilized the three-day truce. This isn't enough for me to change my read, but it's just making me uneasy that RC isn't doing anything too helpful when he posts now. I really would like more content from him.

RC wasn't more active in 1717. If anything he was more active here while the other game was going. This seems to be pretty standard RC. Still, I thought it was strange that he left some pretty big posts in this thread when he didn't in the other, and he hasn't exactly been tunneling either.

You've done jack shit since the truce, you havent analyzed anyone else and you're continuing this low activity shit???

Also, he never said he would push a read... Just that he would let others look at people that aren't DP. It was sort of implied that he would put in some effort with the "if you're town maybe I'll impress you" comment but no real promise was made.

RC or me guys

coming from the person that gave up and accepted their lynch earlier in the day there's no way i'm to play ball. i'll give you one opportunity to call his partner, but don't expect to be prompted again, because you should have done that already.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm like 95% sure that it's Lycan/DP right now.