BLOODBORNE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[Shinobi]

Not!Varsoon joked that I should completely ignore the poll and instead make a Mike Tyson Mysteries theme game.
But that'd be, like, the definition of me making a game only I'm excited about.

But
that sounds fantastic.

[Nahdia]

Oh, another fun fact about this game.

In KC's role PM, there's an ability which details how a player can achieve a secret 3rd party win condition if they hammer her while at 7 insight.
What Varsoon FORGOT to include was that the person hammering has to be TOWN. So I immediately started plotting how I could ally myself with town and promise them two scum removed from the game if they helped me.

Then he clarified

[Cheetory6]

If Varsoon hosts an undertale game, I would consider ruining my life by playing more mafia.

[Nahdia]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p8075743 My favorite part of the game.

[Varsoon]

How is Shadowrun not in your pool Varsoona?

'cus Shadowrun is definitely happening AND it's a joint Titus-Varsoon effort. <3

[SirCakez]

...Does anyone even read these?
I feel as though my efforts are pointless.

LOL

If Varsoon hosts an undertale game, I would consider ruining my life by playing more mafia.

Now you have to run Undertale Varsoon
It's obligatory

[Shinobi]

Oh, another fun fact about this game.

In KC's role PM, there's an ability which details how a player can achieve a secret 3rd party win condition if they hammer her while at 7 insight.
What Varsoon FORGOT to include was that the person hammering has to be TOWN. So I immediately started plotting how I could ally myself with town and promise them two scum removed from the game if they helped me.

Then he clarified

I'm quoting this the next time we're stuck in some kind of cold equation.

[Nahdia]

...Does anyone even read these?
I feel as though my efforts are pointless.

I read that and PM'd Varsoon about it! I use those beginning indicators constantly. It's how I immediately found out RI came back to life :p

[SugarJan]

Also can I get any tips for becoming better beyond "post more" which I think I got as hard as that will be because aaaaaugh smart people will be reading my posts and they'll all immediately think I'm stupid ^_^'

[Elbirn]

Varsoon, baybee, doughnut bid yuself up, frend

We all love you and we love the amount of time and effort you put into your games. It's no exaggeration to say that you're one of, if not THE best mod on site.

Now that the niceties are out of the way, we gotta talk some theory broseph.

1. I recall playing a game with you where you denounced a reliance on mechanics and flavor over rhetoric in mafia. While I don't recall the exact specifics, it seemed clear that you value the cerebral, puzzle solvey aspect of mafia.


Pedit: lol ice been typing this for like 15 minutes on my phone and oh my god that like 2 page pedit

But this doesn't seem to be reflected in your games, and it confuses me. I wonder, like, did I misunderhear you? Am I remembering someone else? But no I'm sure it was you

My point being that I so very much agree with that notion, and you gotta get yo groove back. We need to move either to a mechanically minimilast setup or one where the roles emphasize the use of rhetoric and communication; in a lot of ways, your use of multiple private threads, private messages, and the ability for even the dead to speak does a wonderful job of this! And I so very much like that part. But the fact that your games can be broken open by exploits or proper knowledge of the setup makes me sad which leads into...

2. I mentioned this in the nightmare pt, idk if you were still following along (probably because you're great) but I disagree with multivoters on a spiritual level. That this game turned into "Multivoter: The Game" made me super sad.

This is another point in favor of rhetoric over mechanics; when you give someone more vote power, you've weakened the ability of rhetoric and discourse to shape the game. You've gone from playing mafia, one voice, one vote, and if you want more votes you must earn them through persuasion and debate; to "lol well I have TWO votes fuck yo couch". This game was that reduced to an absurdity. That the last, what, 3 days of this were just quicklynches by nahdia within the first minute? And then the day before was a quicklynch by house?

I don't need to beat a dead horse here and my purpose is not to complain, but I really want to drive the point home that multivoting is as perverse to the spirit of mafia, to me, as godfathers are to you

Sidenote: this game was so confusing that if I didn't have a hydra partner, my slot wouldn't have been able to vote. I literally had no idea how to, between the 30 weapons shop items Magic conch shell and Ben Franklins bifocals that we got out of olmecs hidden temple. I think more than once I told cerb "you do the mechanical stuff, I'm gonna play mafia"

So just. Again. Less confusing mechanjcs. Cuz if I was confused and demoralized by that, I'm sure it contributed to a lot of others flaking.

3. I'm pretty sure I had another point to make but I forgot, I'm just going to note again that you're awesome, and thanks for seeing this through. You da real mvp

[Frozen Angel]

K thats all for this game

still the point stands

no one refer me about this game. I don't fucking played this game. I will rage in a way you never saw from me yet if you do so.

thax for considering that.

[Varsoon]

If Varsoon hosts an undertale game, I would consider ruining my life by playing more mafia.

I might have to ruin your life sometime, Cheetory.
In the meantime, man, can someone buy me a pizza?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p8075743 My favorite part of the game.

Despite this game stressing me out, it had some really great moments. Like that one.

Not!Varsoon joked that I should completely ignore the poll and instead make a Mike Tyson Mysteries theme game.
But that'd be, like, the definition of me making a game only I'm excited about.

But
that sounds fantastic.

It kind of would be. The temptation is there.

inb4 Varsoon rebels and starts running Newbie games instead

Oh man that's a great idea
(never ever)

P-EDIT:
@Elbirn: I love you, man. I keep trying to see how mechanically complex of a setup I can make with mechanics that pour into the game rhetoric. This one is clearly the breaking point. Now I'm going to probably swing the other way and see how mechanically simple/concise of a setup I can make with roles that contribute the rhetorical game play.
I agree on multivoting being a huge issue this game, but it was a part of the design--how do players rhetorically play when other players are pursuing such mechanical power publicly? The answer is they don't. :/

[SirCakez]

OH
Varsoon what did the Music Box do?

[Nahdia]

Honestly, being outted scum in my Nightmare and taunting my prey was pretty great.

Randomly remembered; another dumb mistake I made was not making Ranger make all the kills earlier. She uses Beasthood! I should have had her do the kills on town people to get her access to more redirects, but I didn't force the issue when she mentioned not wanting to make the kills. Having Klingon do them at any point except when she was strongkilling was a waste of resources.

This game was a lot of fun. Sorry I played a huge part in... well, quite frankly, breaking it. I did what I had to do :[ and yeah by the end it didn't exactly feel like... mafia, per se.

[Nahdia]

Oh yeah, and why was Mixed6 added to my nightmare the night I murdered him?

In game the Music Box stuns dwlee's role. Did it interact with him at all? :p

[Frozen Angel]

Thax varsoon your game design is awesome anyway,

I hope you don't get upset for me attacking it and i hope you consider working on it cuase I like it to be perfect as I have higher standards for your games. I like what you do and your the best who can do it.

with love!

Frozen Angel

[House]

One person using two controllers in a console game remains one player, afaic.

The site's rules are hugely specific about loopholes being bullshit, but apparently that goes out the window when it comes to mechanics.

I still say the game was bastard because it allowed the very action Varsoon explicitly stated the game was designed to prevent.

If quicklynches required two people to be online at day start, town would have had a bit more of a fair shake at the end.

[Varsoon]

OH
Varsoon what did the Music Box do?

If used, I would mod-post the following video:


It also renders Gasciogne (Dwlee) unable to cast votes or take actions during the day, iirc.

Thax varsoon your game design is awesome anyway,

I hope you don't get upset for me attacking it and i hope you consider working on it cuase I like it to be perfect as I have higher standards for your games. I like what you do and your the best who can do it.

with love!

Frozen Angel

Thank you for playing. I'm sorry it was frustrating, but glad that you were on-board.

[Patches the Spider]

Not the first time a proxy slot mechanic has been used, it just had a unique application in this game.

[Varsoon]

One person using two controllers in a console game remains one player, afaic.

The site's rules are hugely specific about loopholes being bullshit, but apparently that goes out the window when it comes to mechanics.

I still say the game was bastard because it allowed the very action Varsoon explicitly stated the game was designed to prevent.

If quicklynches required two people to be online at day start, town would have had a bit more of a fair shake at the end.

I agree that Patches was a problem, but I disagree about the bastard aspect.
It's shitty, though, so I'll give you that. I shouldn't have designed something so shitty.

[Nahdia]

Well from the role PM's, it's kind of clear that no one being allowed to unilaterally lynch was like, a last minute decision.

I guess Patches just wasn't considered.

[Varsoon]

Well from the role PM's, it's kind of clear that no one being allowed to unilaterally lynch was like, a last minute decision.

I guess Patches just wasn't considered.

It was made late into the design, but I did not want to change the roles that were originally quite dangerous from making it explicit to those players.

[Nahdia]

fair enough.

anyway, keep the Nightmare PT's aspect in some form if possible; that was awesome. I'm sad I didn't have the opportunity to use my Events.

[SirCakez]

Are Hydra PTs being released?

[Varsoon]

A couple of the games I'm thinking of making have that same "PTs with Events" thing going on.
I like letting people continue to play after death, too.

Hydra PTs will only be released on request of the players involved.