Mini 1804: Poker Mafia (Game Over)

[Fire Assassin]

2 scum versus 9 town can be ridiculously scumsided depending on the setup. I doubt there's a traitor.

And what about my calling you scum doesn't sound genuine?

The fact you ask me to reconsider.

If I was scum, what point would there be for me to "reconsider" you?

It sounds like you are just trying to convince me to reanalyze you to come to a different conclusion.
If I was scum, it wouldn't matter my read on you at all. So you asking me to reaccess while you scum read, looks scummy and manipulative as all hell.

[lane0168]

Quit fucking saying reaccess! Delete that shit from your phone! Fuck! Lol

[Something_Smart]

I was talking about MM. Yesterday we both scumread MM. Today you want to lynch him and then reconsider your reads, but he was one of the reads I wanted to reconsider.

[Infinity 324]

Looked at wingback slot again, it's town.

Fold

Fire is prob scum as well.

I think this is a lot of the reason why BBT died tonight, kill on me would probably be too obvious.

We should all be following the plan of betting and giving the hands to our townread.

Fire continually pushing this makes me suspicious that scum have something up their sleeve, like a strongman for example. Anyway everyone who's obvtown already folded...

Lane just skipped you, giving you too little time to express yourself, before he kicked FA_Q2 out of the game. He just denied you opportunity to talk and potentially approve / disapprove, and he did that for what..?
Also, wanting money back on him at the cost of a foolish early hammer, especially taking some THAT WAY, just pings the hell out of my gut. Plus I take offense to your "without committing to it" thing. I commit.
VOTE: lane

Seems just like more impulsiveness...

I think I understand the BBT kill. It strikes me as kind of a "don't rock the boat" kill, to eliminate a strong player who hadn't really contributed much this far.
It reminds me of the droog kill in this game.
And I think what it suggests is that town's collective reads are way off, as they were in that game. I'm very disappointed that my MM/FA theory didn't end up being true, and I think that flip means that MM is town too. I definitely want to take a closer look at farside once again.

I think you may be right here, or at least the most active/towniest players have some wrong reads.

Why aren't you dead? You had a lot of money

Cause he's still mislynch bait, and the powers probably aren't going to break the game

Fold

I need to think about a few things before I vote.

This is a very self conscious post.

You didn't want to vote anyone....yeah okay, but why do you feel the need to say that..?

I tend to overthink things and I had a theory i was looking into when I had time.
My first reaction was to just vote MM.
But then I thought about how something smart was blaming people for pushing votes while he sits on his vote for FAQ2.
My brain finds it hard to see them scum together and I start going, farside are you looking at everyone or ignoring people.
Then there is you who's said nothing except willing to hammer.

Right now I'm just going on fumes and waiting for tomorrow before I do anything.

I think I understand the BBT kill. It strikes me as kind of a "don't rock the boat" kill, to eliminate a strong player who hadn't really contributed much this far.
It reminds me of the droog kill in this game.
And I think what it suggests is that town's collective reads are way off, as they were in that game. I'm very disappointed that my MM/FA theory didn't end up being true, and I think that flip means that MM is town too. I definitely want to take a closer look at farside once again.

@Shadow: if only one person wins a hand in any given day, they will be bulletproof the following night. That's the mechanic that Fire wants to (ab)use by throwing hands to townreads.

Are you meaning that we should look at the reads made during day 1 and take them completely opposite? Who didn't even get real votes on? Who looks in control?

No, it just means that scum think they are doing well and don't want us to rethink our reads. Thus, we should rethink our reads. We shouldn't necessarily rethink all of them.

Fold

I need to think about a few things before I vote.

This is a very self conscious post.

You didn't want to vote anyone....yeah okay, but why do you feel the need to say that..?

It's self-aware, not self-conscious. Why did you feel the need to say that?

Wait, why did I vote something_smart?

VOTE: the mm

Why aren't you dead? You had a lot of money

If scum kill someone with a lot of money, most of that money just goes right back into town hands. And why would scum necessarily kill a potential mislynch like MM if he is in fact town?

I think I understand the BBT kill. It strikes me as kind of a "don't rock the boat" kill, to eliminate a strong player who hadn't really contributed much this far.
It reminds me of the droog kill in this game.
And I think what it suggests is that town's collective reads are way off, as they were in that game. I'm very disappointed that my MM/FA theory didn't end up being true, and I think that flip means that MM is town too. I definitely want to take a closer look at farside once again.

@Shadow: if only one person wins a hand in any given day, they will be bulletproof the following night. That's the mechanic that Fire wants to (ab)use by throwing hands to townreads.

I don't even know what you mean by most of this.

Scum want to kill the person who they don't want alive the most. This could be a person liable to start catching them, or one who is widely townread and is leading town in a dangerous direction. Since the scum killed BBT, who wasn't really active, engaged, or in a town leader position, it probably means they aren't too afraid of the above things happening, which probably means that the town's reads, as a whole, are fairly bad.

Wait, why did I vote something_smart?
VOTE: the mm
Why aren't you dead? You had a lot of money

I won a hand, I was freaking Bulletproof. Read'em rules.

Bulletproof only goes into effect if only one person wins money in any given DP. Read'em rules.

Cause I didn't really feel that farside needed to add that to her post.
She simply could have folded and said nothing. She must have thought only doing that would look scummy.

It looked like a conscious effort to not look scummy.

This is quite the stretch...

We are doing both but mostly should be reading players.

Which I think we should 100% lynch MM today

And you still never gave a real reason why you scumread mm...

Regardless. Nothing anyone could say could convince me the mm is town.

This is not helping...

I was confused. I was thinking the mafia who killed them died. Change of plans. No one is getting vengeful lol. We get like 5 people the jail keeper?

Dafuq what?
You've been on this site 5 years, don't tell me you've never encountered a vengeful before.
This looks like a fake town slip.

how would that be a town slip?
Thats him not understanding a role mechanic......
Like thats not exclusive to town, thats a dumbass slip lol. No offense Lane.

It isn't(exclusive) but it generally comes from town, as scum tend to be more careful with the setup and possible roles etc and don't make such obvious mistakes.

That would be some next-level WIFOM

I think I understand the BBT kill. It strikes me as kind of a "don't rock the boat" kill, to eliminate a strong player who hadn't really contributed much this far.
It reminds me of the droog kill in this game.
And I think what it suggests is that town's collective reads are way off, as they were in that game. I'm very disappointed that my MM/FA theory didn't end up being true, and I think that flip means that MM is town too. I definitely want to take a closer look at farside once again.

@Shadow: if only one person wins a hand in any given day, they will be bulletproof the following night. That's the mechanic that Fire wants to (ab)use by throwing hands to townreads.

I'm tempted to sheep this, but... it's one thing to say this and then actually confront yourself with the realities of it. In reality, farside would be the weakest townread, I suppose, when compared to Wingback/SS/lane, that is.

---

People are concentrating too much on the money and abilities instead of the actual game.

A similar thing happened in Blood borne, it was a large theme game which recently finished. Town ended up self destructing which cost us the game.

Two of my more substantial scumreads just flipped town here, so I'm at a bit of an impasse. I'm now thinking MM probably shouldn't be pursued and I should vote one of my town reads from yesterday.

---

I wouldn't mind throwing hands to lane right now? His reaction seemed townie to me saying him too.

I tend to agree with this. lane is my rock this game. Fire acknowledging this just feels town to me, I can't help it. This is going to be a very frustrating game.

VOTE: farside22

This goes against my instincts, but I think farside is a strong candidate for being a scummer in this game that can fool me into thinking she's town. With regard to MoI, some of his attacks were pretty objectively bad, and he may have wanted to get out of dodge this game because he thought he was setting himself up to get pressured. Anyway, let's go with this now until I see something more enticing.

This post is so bad, I may have to re-evaluate my read on RC. You're not trying to re-evaluate your reads, just voting your weakest townread because she could be a good scum? And fire looks town cause he said lane is town? Why don't you explain why you have a townread on everyone.

I'm referring to this post, pre-flip.

@FA: q = qubixes.

I will say that I feel really bad about my top scumreads both being easy mislynches. I think there is a decent probability that one or both of them will flip town. Tomorrow, regardless of who we lynch and what they flip, I want to look in the players controlling the discussion, particularly farside.

Replacing out is NAI end of story. I have heard this bullshit over and over again about one replace out is scummy or one is town and they are virtually always random. Replacing out for personal reasons or because you do not enjoy playing with a particular player/play style does not suddenly evaporate when you are scum or town. Nice try though.

Wrong.

Bullshit. replacing out is NAI period. reading into it more without some sort of reasoning is reaching and asinine.

I once played a game where I had to replace out because I saw my friend posting in the scum PT. Now if I had shared that reason with the town, do you still think it would have been NAI?

This is a hell of a stretch...

Also I love when players dodge questions like something smart does.

You want me to answer the question?
The answer is that I don't have a magical voice inside my head telling me everyone's alignment. So of course I'm going to recognize that my scumread might be wrong.

What did you expect to learn from asking that question?

Town response.

Would like a reads list from shadow, I don't like how he just jumped in and gave intent to hammer on d1. I think farside would've died if he was scum though...

VOTE: fire

[lane0168]

Really? So you're completely writing off the possibility for the mm scum as well. Brilliant. Absolutely fucking brilliant. The mm can't possibly be scum. The only explanation is he must be mislynch bait. What the fuck? There are several reasons he should be lynched. Love how he's one of the leading wagons all day yesterday and all of a sudden hes lynch bait.

Infinity. Why is the mm town then? Why do you townread him?

[lane0168]

Bet $40

I have no idea why everyone is folding when we can organize this much better.
Just frustrating me and I am probably going to stop talking about this mechanic and just focusing on scumhunting.

I have town reads on Lane and Wingback,
I feel pretty confident on those, I am thinking that MM is scum, but unsure of allies still.
Something Smart possibly not sure on who with?

Farside I am null on but I could possibly see it.

TOo many preflip asosciations.

I say we flip MM today and if we are wrong we can reaccess.

ANyone elses thoughts? (Not on the poker mechanics that we obviously can't do)

Sorry about that.
I have wing and lane as strong town reads too. Next hand I would give to either of them.
Fire I would put as town.

Not sure why I'm null but whatever.
Side-Step is null.

I had a crazy theory about MM, Something smart and Infinity as scum team. But that seems too easy and I don't think Infinity is that dumb.
MM for sure, waiting on Smart to explain himself better and infinity, well he made one case and seems pretty quiet overall today, which is disturbing me.
RC went to null mostly for being a lazy ass.

Id like to hear this now

[lane0168]

Infinity, why is that a town response?

[Infinity 324]

Infinity. Why is the mm town then? Why do you townread him?

He seems like frazzled noob town the whole game and has been going against the flow mainly. He seems to believe what he says.

Infinity, why is that a town response?

Scum would probably at least recognize why what they did was scummy.

[lane0168]

Hmm id say town is more likely to realize why what they did was scummy. Remember when I was laundering money to the mm?

[Infinity 324]

From my experience, that's not really the case. I also liked how he asked the purpose of the question...idk it just felt town to me

[lane0168]

Ok. Imagine he's scum. Reread it. Does it still sound like town?

[lane0168]

Or does it sound like something that can easily be scum?

[Infinity 324]

Looks like something that's hard to fake for me

[lane0168]

Are you fucking with me? Or... How is that hard to fake? Sarcasm is used my scum to discredit town often.

Farside. I'm going to need you to come in here and explain your mm, ss, infinity theory

[Infinity 324]

Ok so I'm pretty sure scum!smart would know why he said faq2 might flip town: because he knew faq2 was town.

Even if he didn't, I think it wouldn't be simple/natural to get in the mindset where he cares about why the question was asked. That's a town mindset.

-_-

[Shadow_step]

2 scum versus 9 town can be ridiculously scumsided depending on the setup. I doubt there's a traitor.

And what about my calling you scum doesn't sound genuine?

Why would it be terribly scum sided? I don't understand, 9v2 would mean that scum need 4 mislynches.
I'd call that terribly town sided if anything.

[farside22]

Are you fucking with me? Or... How is that hard to fake? Sarcasm is used my scum to discredit town often.

Farside. I'm going to need you to come in here and explain your mm, ss, infinity theory

I'm phone posting so no links or quotes will be used during this.

The reason I thought this was the way infinty keeps calling the 2 of them town above others.
Also on day 2 ss said with faq2 lynch mm is town.
Based on theory?
That's just crap.
Infinty pushes mm scummy comments as nothing and calls players scummy for making points against him.
Again I can't see Infinity being this bad as scum to defend scum buddies that blantenly but I can't see town Infinity ignoring someone blantenly scummy either.

Anyways that's were I stand currently.

[farside22]

Also I love when players dodge questions like something smart does.

You want me to answer the question?
The answer is that I don't have a magical voice inside my head telling me everyone's alignment. So of course I'm going to recognize that my scumread might be wrong.

What did you expect to learn from asking that question?

You apologies for the read.
Called it a mislynch and kept your vote on a player, all while throwing shade at others for making cases.
That's town to you?

Umm... It's 11

Ah.

I don't know standards for 11 players.

I'm still sticking with 3 scum reads.
You have none so duck off.

I have one.

I'm blacklisting after this game.

[lane0168]

Infinity, why do you say the most active/Towniest players have wrong reads? How do you know this? How can you know we don't have right reads?

[Infinity 324]

I can't see town Infinity ignoring someone blantenly scummy either.

The fuck...?

How about you explain to me why mm is scum.

Infinity, why do you say the most active/Towniest players have wrong reads? How do you know this? How can you know we don't have right reads?

I don't

know

anything, I'm just saying the kill on BBT makes that a possibility.

[The MM]

Bet $40

I have no idea why everyone is folding when we can organize this much better.
Just frustrating me and I am probably going to stop talking about this mechanic and just focusing on scumhunting.

I have town reads on Lane and Wingback,
I feel pretty confident on those, I am thinking that MM is scum, but unsure of allies still.
Something Smart possibly not sure on who with?

Farside I am null on but I could possibly see it.

TOo many preflip asosciations.

I say we flip MM today and if we are wrong we can reaccess.

ANyone elses thoughts? (Not on the poker mechanics that we obviously can't do)

I'm folding because I have no interest in tossing the little that remains of my money to the first lucjy guy, that's pretty much that. Antes will probably eat at the rest of my wallet like popcorn but it barely matters at this point.

Lynching me is exactly what scum want you to do; it's the reason they left me alive in the first place since I wasn't BP. Now consider why I was left alive.

Possibly seeing me and farside as scum is kinda dumb imo, considering I've said I'm kinda scared of scum!farside, maybe you were too busy drowning in your own made-up scumtells on me to notice.

Lynching me is wasting the Tracker shot. This is complete and utter town sabotage, since the Tracker shot isn't given to anyone. This entire plan is dumbnut.

Really? So you're completely writing off the possibility for the mm scum as well. Brilliant. Absolutely fucking brilliant. The mm can't possibly be scum. The only explanation is he must be mislynch bait. What the fuck? There are several reasons he should be lynched. Love how he's one of the leading wagons all day yesterday and all of a sudden hes lynch bait.

All your monies are belong to me, which ofc would make me lynch bait because scum wants the power roles dead. It's one of the few cases where

town wins nothing

. As for your several reasons I should be lynched, your dumbassery doesn't count as a reason, me having the Tracker shot is a reason NOT TO LYNCH ME, and of course I've been making the fire wagon, so you're relying too much on fire not to be scum.

Infinity. Why is the mm town then? Why do you townread him?

He seems like frazzled noob town the whole game and has been going against the flow mainly. He seems to believe what he says.

I don't like the term "frazzled" for some reason. Going against the flow is kind of in my personality, especially when the flow is dictated by other people.
Also, the only people with no reason to believe what they say are lying scum. Townies only lie for gambits, and even then that's pretty horrid.

Lane looks like in the middle of a meltdown that is so incredibly stupid I can't get a true read on him because he pushes for my lynch like his life depends on it. Which makes no fucking sense.

Farside hasn't satisfied me. Calling me blatantly scummy means squat because I don't abide by your standards anyway; deal with it. You'd have to explain how in factual terms. Otherwise, I'll just treat that as throwing shade around for no reason.

[lane0168]

On the next hand, I want the mm to bet 300. He should have no problem with this, because if he doesn't have that much money, it can't go through.

[lane0168]

If you're worried that will put you all in, we'll just have everyone fold quick, so you can keep your 100 bucks

[lane0168]

Notice infinity and something_smart delaying poker hands.

[Infinity 324]

I like your plan.

I folded btw