Mini 1812 | Quolls | Endgame
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Plotinus Kitten Caboodle
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The failure mode of clever is asshole.
Modding checklists | Sequencer is in Game 5 | Space II is in Day 4-
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MURDERCAT he/himSurvivorhe/him
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All In Goon
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I think hiplop is someone who doesn't let go when he thinks you're scum. So leaving him alive when he's on to you is the worst thing you can do.In post 598, Vedith wrote:So you think Nacho would normally night kill 1 person suspecting him?
Do you think that Hiplop was going to have enough of an impact today instead of yetserday to lynch Nacho?
Whether or not he would have enough impact is another story, but he surely has the capability to pull it off.In memory of All In, Radja's character pick in Reality Show X.-
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All In Goon
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this so muchIn post 601, MURDERCAT wrote:I need to reread hiplop but I can pretty much promise you he was on scum.In memory of All In, Radja's character pick in Reality Show X.-
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Shadow_step Mafia Scum
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Or they suspected that he was a PR.(hiplop)
I prefer an ASP lynch today.ShowThe shadows betray you, because they serve me.
"Chrim and Shadow_step town MVPs. There was a point at the game I was legitimately in fear." ~Zach
"I'm mightily impressed by Shadow's ability to find town PR's, by the way. He was the one directing the first two nightkills." ~Michel-
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Shadow_step Mafia Scum
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Quickly skimmed through Hiplop's iso.
He was mainly scum reading Asp and Nacho.ShowThe shadows betray you, because they serve me.
"Chrim and Shadow_step town MVPs. There was a point at the game I was legitimately in fear." ~Zach
"I'm mightily impressed by Shadow's ability to find town PR's, by the way. He was the one directing the first two nightkills." ~Michel-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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VOTE: ASP
Criticises wagon spot as opposed to the votes themselves and why/how this is scummy. Wagon position itself without context is shallow; in every wagon there are "non-confrontational spots' and on a basic level pointing this out without saying why/how it's bad isn't saying anything. No judgement on why my wagon position is bad vs people in the same "wagon spots" on other wagons; or why sheeping or even being "non-confrontational" is necessarily bad.In post 535, A Simple Plan wrote:Taking the 'non-confrontational' spots on the KTS and now Dragon Wagons, coupled with this post here in which it's clearly specified that I would be the ideal lynch and does nothing else but offer hypotheticals; if I'm the top scumread, vote me.
The implication is he's casting doubt on me for being non-confrontational with wagon positioning and not voting him.
But this ignores
1. ASP wagon's being tried but not taking off, half the playerbase opposed. On top of ASP's own inactivity and the game in general stalling the value of sticking there on a lost cause vs trying elsewhere.
2. Deadline, the scramble to actually get something going; voting ASP at that point is pure vanity (as it probably wasn't happening) and doesn't affect the day as opposed to consolidating on a lynch.
3. That there ever is a reason for anyone to vote lesser scumreads or even nulls.
In other words it's shallow thinking because it's ignoring obvious problems with why someone wouldn't always vote their top scumread for the entirety of a day. No reason to believe he considered the flipside or genuinely thought things through.
Maybe (2) or (3) aren't that obvious when coming in inactive butas a lurker slot coming in 24h to deadline with people consolidating and saying "if I'm the top scumread, vote me" is disingenuous.
This is brought up to support the above but doesn't really follow since nacho exchange absolutely was "confrontational" (as was the asp wagon before he lurked through the entire day) and ASP doesn't say anything about how/why leaving the nacho wagon for KTS is a bad thing or scummy.In post 535, A Simple Plan wrote:Keep in mind that the moment Nacho starts producing, Rask is off the wagon to serve as a sheep (457) to Murder, who curiously enough had also been the first vote on Nacho.
Like no comment on the stance or unvote itself being bad or good? If you scumread this shouldn't you be thinking "oh that's a fake read on nacho and fake unvote" but it's like the emphasis is purely on timing rather than looking at the read or interaction itself. I think this approach comes from someone picking me to scumread and working backwards; if you're actually reading that exchange naturally and going through the content your mind makes some conclusions there, it doesn't jump to the vc significance without in any way judging the content and at least making a basic statement on the read or the nacho wagon.
Faint suggestion of something bad being from joining murder's wagons (which are actually most of the wagons in the game) but nothing really said there.
If this was the original point and why he has a problem with me his case would make more sense (I don't like rask because he wagons everything) but this is like an afterthought thrown in. I mean this could have been a half decent argument if it was taken anywhere, but it's just left like this.In post 535, A Simple Plan wrote:Also worthy of note, Rask has been on every leading wagon (every one to at some point be the closest to a lynch via the VC) since it was Rask on Page 7.
Now I think ASP brings this up because "hey being on all wagons looks bad and I can mention it" but hey I'll break down why this can be half-decent to begin with but why just leaving it here doesn't say anything.
Spoiler:
Standalone there's no problem saying this fact, but not saying how or why it's worthy of note leaves it a weak statement.
This sounds pretty certain of a dragon scumflip considering ASP inactivity.In post 535, A Simple Plan wrote:I will not be around between now and day's end, but I see some merit to the Dragon wagon. I like Rask right now for top scum, but based upon this wagon and Rask's place on it, I could see them as partners.
I just don't buy that townASP comes in and scumreads me, sees "some merit" to dragon and confidently suggests that partner association (that convinced on dragon too?), all without once saying anything about murdercat or KTS wagons which were going on at the time. I think its unlikely someone naturally comes in with this stance after lurking day 1 and it just reads to me he actually knows what happens next WRT the flip.
Spoiler:
Overall I assume he looked at me because I scumread him (like vedith earlier) and decided to make this from skimming VCs; I don't see consideration. Probably didn't read the game or most of my ISO and didn't go into my reads or anything I said (other than that I would ideally lynch him). Basically pointing out things but not taking them to conclusions, and the way he comments (stating facts instead of making judgements) vs the feeling I get from it I don't think it's a real read. It isn't immediately obvious but specifically talking on wagon positioning and timing instead of once going into CONTENT is a wtf approach but especially at d1 before any flips the vc analysis I don't get it. Same with his weirdness earliergame, I really can't follow this train of thought as town.
The vote itself (how it was a vanity/for-show vote) on revisit isn't bad since as town one would also legit want to vote vanity if they did genuinely scumread dragon (as opposed to unannounced hammer or no-vote), but with the reason being to leave your other scumread there and explained for people in case you died. But him not saying anything to that effect and approaching this as he did I have no reason to believe that VS him just wanting to tie association with his partner. Scum ASP at that point can't really counterwagon if their partner is l-1 and also wouldn't want to unannounced-hammer so supporting the lynch while talking about something else makes sense.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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I want to make a distinction though. ASP isn't scum because his arguments are bad, he's probably scum because he's not thinking about the game in a way I see as beyond puddle-deep or genuine.
Obviously given his activity it doesn't make sense to expect anything in-depth, but given that I'd expect a lower level of confidence 'expressed'(what I feel he gives off) from him, furthermore I think he misses basic obvious considerations and doesn't focus on things which make sense.
His approach reads to me like someone who decided to scumread me and skim for justification afterwards.-
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Killthestory Jack of All Trades
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
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Vote: A Simple Plan
I think this should be the lynch for the day.
If you think hiplop was killed because he was on scum, I was pretty much his suspect. MURDERCAT, why didn't you two follow up your thought with a push/doubts on me?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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Although to address this piece of reasoning, I don't kill lurkers who suspect me. Hiplop didn't have clout. Hiplop didn't have reasoning. The only reasoning for scum to kill him last night is because people had suspicions of him having a power role; a competent scumteam doesn't shoot there for any other reason.In post 596, All In wrote:Well, it's very interesting that hiplop was killed, being of the wagon on scum.
He basically has been shouting Nacho is scum the entire time.
ASP was also someone on hiplop's radar.
hiplop is very good at scumhunting, so I think at least one of these 2 must be scum or they would not have killed him. Especially considering the low amount of content hiplop produced.
Simple as that.
Deletedidenticalduplicatepost.--PLast edited by Plotinus on Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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MURDERCAT he/himSurvivorhe/him
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What are you referring to?In post 609, Nachomamma8 wrote:MURDERCAT, why didn't you two follow up your thought with a push/doubts on me?
I think we should lynch asp and then insta lynch nacho if asp is town.-
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MURDERCAT he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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MURDERCAT he/himSurvivorhe/him
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MURDERCAT he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
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Dwlee99 They/themSurvivorThey/them
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MURDERCAT he/himSurvivorhe/him
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MURDERCAT he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dwlee99 They/themSurvivorThey/them
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MURDERCAT he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dwlee99 They/themSurvivorThey/them
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MURDERCAT he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dwlee99 They/themSurvivorThey/them
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MURDERCAT he/himSurvivorhe/him
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