New York 196: My Game, My Flavor Mafia (Mafia Win)

[Zachstralkita]

if kraska is trusting A50, I should be clear according to A50's claim so by extension I should be town in her eyes.

why aren't you clearing kraska and shannon based on this though. They're also clear if they're non-strongman scum. You're the same level of clear as they are.

Then maybe there is a strongman amongst them. I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility.

[Zachstralkita]

No, that is the truth since you are confirmed and I believe A50.

I'm pretty sure we win if we lynch inside kraska/shannon.

[Zachstralkita]

A50's initial claim did not indicate a scum gambit to me. That is my decision so now the solution is clear to me.

[Zachstralkita]

not me.

If A50 is scum it's a pretty clever tactic to have claimed to have protected me and taken out the other PR. Now we're less likely to risk lynching A50 (since he's our last claimed PR) and everyone is confused about who the scum is.

Implosion is here, so A50 is not the last claimed PR. That point is null.

[Zachstralkita]

No, that is the truth since you are confirmed and I believe A50.

I'm pretty sure we win if we lynch inside kraska/shannon.

And what do you make of the negative motion detector result on shannon?

Was there one on kraska too? No? THENNNNNNNNNNN WE HAVE A ROPE WINNER DING DING DING DING

[Zachstralkita]

But wasn't Kraska JKed and a kill still went through?

Strongman.

[Zachstralkita]

What stops you from being a strongman?

I'm town. Theory is destroyed.

[Zachstralkita]

Varsoon's role confirms implosion

[Zachstralkita]

Yeah. OK, so back to you - which nights were you protected/monitored, and who died those nights?

I need A50 to confirm he went on me N4 and N5 or tell me I'm fucking crazy.

[Zachstralkita]

It's most likely kraska.

[Zachstralkita]

just uh vote kraska

[Zachstralkita]

Except it's not Zach, and this is why it happened

[Zachstralkita]

at the risk of adding a wifom element to the kill tonight, zach is very, very probably scum. Very, very, very probably. Assuming kraska flips town.

Except I'm town so the probability of that drops to 0.00%

[Zachstralkita]

Given the nature of roles that have been flipped I think the only conceivable situation in which power roles' targets tonight matter is if Zach is a limited-shot strongman who is out of shots. To that end it would be helpful if A50 either jails zach or doesn't announce his target or follow a plan for the sake of following a plan. If he doesn't trust me then he should jailkeep me though.

It'd be fucking nice if you had you know not rushed when actually coordinating these things in advance is KIND OF IMPORTANT

A50 jailed me two nights in a row and a kill happened on one of them. I'm vanilla townie, so I cannot be a strongman. I am clear.

[Zachstralkita]

see zach if we're both alive tomorrow and you want me to not lynch you you're going to have to make actual cogent arguments. Just a warning.

Not lynching me and the town winning are connected -- what do you need to warn me of if we both have the same objective? Do you actually think I should feel threatened? There's nothing I can do if you want to ignore the obvious. Just a warning.

[Zachstralkita]

Varsoon's role confirms you as town -- so you'd be throwing.

[Zachstralkita]

A50 jail shannon tonight pls

[Zachstralkita]

The only other possible outcome is implo is a scum-aligned nurse

[Zachstralkita]

Which is NOT a possibility so

[Zachstralkita]

Since strongman , whoever A50 goes on doesn't matter but to be on the safe side it should be either one of me or implo

[Zachstralkita]

A50 jail shannon tonight pls

Are you trying to save me here or prove something? Because I've already been jailkept *and* motion detected.

Haha. No.

Since strongman , whoever A50 goes on doesn't matter but to be on the safe side it should be either one of me or implo

But if implosion is jailkept he can't doctor anyone

If it's a strongman as I suspect, his doctor ability becomes useless

[Zachstralkita]

zach how can the last scum possibly be a strongman fypov. It can't be me because I'm role-confirmed. It can't be shannon because she had no motion on a night with a kill. It would have to be a50 and then your discussions are irrelevant and him being a strongman is much less relevant than you being a strongman. Like, post 6210 makes 0 sense.

Really as far as i'm concerned shannon is clear because she would literally HAVE to be a joat with shots of ninja & strongman and have used them perfectly. Just outside the realm of possibility.

The more I look at a50's claim and subsequent play the less it makes any sense whatsoever as scum. He doesn't strike me as the kind of player who would be audacious enough to say "lynch me then implosion" as scum today, or who would make the jailkeeper claim at the time he did to try to counterclaim Dunnstral. Zach strikes me as a player who is very definitely audacious enough to do the things that he's done (his selfvoting shenanigans, his callimg himself clear) as scum. They do 0 to convince me he's town.

Except I'm town tho and while I have definitely contributed to such a result happening, if you continue along this train of thought we are going to lose.

If you believe A50 and you yourself are clear and I am town, POE leaves shannon.

If shannon can't be scum to you then A50 has been lying. But as I have said before, I don't see the circumstances surrounding A50's claim scum-motivated at all. Thus I am left with shannon, A50 played a masterful scum game, or this game was loaded.

Option 1 is most likely in my eyes.

[Zachstralkita]

Then please explain to me how shannon can be scum having been both jailkept and negatively motion detected during kills.

- I'm not scum

- you're not scum

- A50 is not scum(this is the ONLY debatable)

You can try and contest the fact that I'm town but that will contribute to scum winning.

[Zachstralkita]

zach how can the last scum possibly be a strongman fypov. It can't be me because I'm role-confirmed. It can't be shannon because she had no motion on a night with a kill. It would have to be a50 and then your discussions are irrelevant and him being a strongman is much less relevant than you being a strongman. Like, post 6210 makes 0 sense.

Really as far as i'm concerned shannon is clear because she would literally HAVE to be a joat with shots of ninja & strongman and have used them perfectly. Just outside the realm of possibility.

The more I look at a50's claim and subsequent play the less it makes any sense whatsoever as scum. He doesn't strike me as the kind of player who would be audacious enough to say "lynch me then implosion" as scum today, or who would make the jailkeeper claim at the time he did to try to counterclaim Dunnstral. Zach strikes me as a player who is very definitely audacious enough to do the things that he's done (his selfvoting shenanigans, his callimg himself clear) as scum. They do 0 to convince me he's town.

Except I'm town tho and while I have definitely contributed to such a result happening, if you continue along this train of thought we are going to lose.

If you believe A50 and you yourself are clear and I am town, POE leaves shannon.

If shannon can't be scum to you then A50 has been lying. But as I have said before, I don't see the circumstances surrounding A50's claim scum-motivated at all. Thus I am left with shannon, A50 played a masterful scum game, or this game was loaded.

Option 1 is most likely in my eyes.

Zach I think you've backed yourself in to a bit of a corner here. It's not that I can't be scum 'to him', it's not based on a read of my play it's based on me having been JKed and MDed on nights that had kills.

Exactly what does this corner entail? Hang on... let me look at the wall.

" Lynch Zach if kraska flips green and CONGRATULATIONS!!! you lose the game "

Okay, I think I'm up to speed here.

[Zachstralkita]

Just saying you're town is not enough to prove that you're town. A50 and Implosion have both claimed roles, gone unchallenged, and given results that seem plausible. I've been cleared by a MD and by the JK, on nights when there were kills. You've only been cleared by the JK, so you could've dunnit if you're a strongman - or the JK could have done it and being lying the whole time. If you're town, then it's A50, and you ned to do something to try to show that.

I don't " need " to do anything. Especially if you tell me to.

[Zachstralkita]

^ Submitted that one earlier so it came off like I was actually trying to be a dickhead


The entire reason scum let me make it to MYLO/LYLO was so this situation could fuck itself up and we'd lose. This is the truth.

[Zachstralkita]

If you're a ninja the motion detector problem is easy to get around.

You yourself doubt A50 and encourage me to so you can't really be " cleared " by a JK if you don't believe the JK is a JK, enough to try and persuade me into voting the JK when I think it's clear what the real answer is?


I think you are actually the one in the corner.

[Zachstralkita]

If you're a ninja the motion detector problem is easy to get around.

You yourself doubt A50 and encourage me to so you can't really be " cleared " by a JK if you don't believe the JK is a JK, enough to try and persuade me into voting the JK when I think it's clear what the real answer is?


I think you are actually the one in the corner.

But if she's a ninja then she's not a strongman... and if she's scum then a50 has to be town (assuming one scum left).

It's like you're not reading what we're saying. You don't get to simply declare "I'm town, and that isn't open to discussion." That simply isn't how the game works. You are, in my opinion, the strongest candidate for scum. I've made it very clear why i think so and you haven't directly addressed the one very simple reason that I think shannon is town.

Um, but like,

I told you

, if you keep thinking that then we're going to lose. This is what you're missing. Why would I EVER deceive you, friend?

My entire point of that post was:

Sure, I can call A50 a JK because I think it is. She can NOT doubt his legitimacy and believe he is a JK at the same time, which is EXACTLY what happened.

[Zachstralkita]

Zach you've literally never played mafia with anyone who uses logic before have you

That's uh, a stretch.

Let me spell this out nice and clear.

I don't give a shit if shannon disbelieves A50 but also trusts his ability to clear people as a jailkeeper. I don't give a shit about this for two reasons. The simpler is that it isn't actually logically inconsistent like you seem to be implying it is, at least, under the assumption that one scum remains. But the other reason is that

she is cleared by both a motion detector and a jailkeeper claim.

I don't care what she's saying; for her to be mafia, she would have to be an extremely specific role and have gotten very lucky. And the odds of that are just too low to even consider, not that I even find her play scummy in the first place (I frankly would likely be townreading her over you based on reads alone but I don't need to think about that anymore).

well RIP

I'm effectively asking you a question and getting a response in an entirely different language.
I don't know that you're town. If you want me to believe that you are town (and if you are town and believe that I am town and shannon is scum, you should want this), then I need to know how you're reconciling your belief that shannon is scum with the actions that were claimed on her.

she could be a wacky JOAT

i'm not sure why this has to be such an impossible impossibility

[Zachstralkita]

It's a matter of probability. She'd have to have an incredibly specific role, and have happened to use both of her abilities on precisely the correct nights. I am willing to bet the game on odds that slim, especially given that I think she looks town anyway.

Famous last words.

[Zachstralkita]

Guys what if transcend was right and a50 somehow cooked all of this up

implosion seems to have you covered on that front, OR he could just you know continue to think im scum

its really a 50/50 then

[Zachstralkita]

Yo A50, who is scum?

[Zachstralkita]

Strongmen can bypass roleblocks

I also don't believe scum had a JK AND a RB (who A50 would be), so A50 is still an actual JK.

[Zachstralkita]

There is a world where A50 and I can both be town

And it's the one that we're in.

[Zachstralkita]

I don't believe Almost50 is a jailkeeper at this point,

I'll play. Let's ASSUME for the sake of argument (and I can't stress more on this being a HYPOTHETICAL assumption, bc I AM a JK). This only leaves us with 2 possibilities:

1- I'm town and BSing like many of you have been.
2- I'm scum and KNEW my OWN PARTNER was a JK, yet I opted to claim a JK of all possible fake claims available in the wiki.

Take a pick.

[Zachstralkita]

Oh, so what the fuck?

[Zachstralkita]

So A50, what was your actual fucking role? Did scum have a JK /RB, or two JKs?

[Zachstralkita]

So A50, what was your actual fucking role? Did scum have a JK /RB, or two JKs?

I have no idea what you're talking about. I jailed implosion as we had agreed. He was the only one left for me to jail.

I'll be frank: If YOU were the 1-shot strongman then you've done a hell of a job. This would explain why the first night I jailed you there was no kill, but then how did you guess I was going to jail you the next night too?

If it's implosion, he certainly wasn't a 1-shot or he was really really really lucky picking his targets.

I know it's not me, but I can understand how the town player of you two can get confused, and I won't blame them if they do end up voting me along with scum.

I certainly won't be voting either of you before I've re--read the whole thread once more and figured out "who said what why". From a recent skim through I noted Dunn would have voted you over implosion, but Transcend, Boem & kraska would have gone for implosion. Wake would have voted me though, and podoboq may have been on me or implosion but probably not you.

Anyway, because there's definitely something I'm missing here I think I need more time to try and figure it out, and if not then it'd be like a penalty kick. Scum now feel the goal is too wide for them to defend, while I see it as small as a needle hole!

My only question is if this

I am a backup Nurse.
I know there is a Nurse and a Doctor in the game.
I had thought my role told me they were a

town

nurse and doctor, but it turns out that they could be any alignment.
At the very least, I can confirm their claim, which is likely to be town, imo.

post by Varsoon leaves it open for implosion to be scum. Otherwise his role confirms implosion and this is check for you.

[Zachstralkita]

checkmate. checkmate. LMAO

[Zachstralkita]

My answer is "I don't know", but here's an excerpt from the wiki (page: Normal Game) under "Roles" and it says "Modifiers which are explicitly Normal for any alignment include: Ascetic, Backup (with or without primary role present), Bulletproof, .. etc .. etc..

What did catch my attention is the "with or without primary role present". It might be weird, but it's possible to to have had a doctor + back up nurse without the presence of a nurse, so when the doctor goes then the backup nurse would become a nurse (i.e. backup doctor) without the presence of a doctor.

However, it is still weird, and what's weirder is the vibes I'm getting from your posts today. You are not exactly you tbh. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I it feels like you feel victorious already. I'm still undecided and I would like for implosion to come share his views at this point. If he IS a doctor, and IS town, then you -sir- have played an awesome game thus far, but you need to convince him to vote me or me to vote him still, which won't be easy. I'd hate to come this far and then vote for the wrong person.

I don't really have to prove anything, I am VT after all

[Zachstralkita]

I got prodded? Holy shit.

Yeah guys, if I'm using logic here it can only be A50.

[Zachstralkita]

mate its time to olbiterate ye

[Zachstralkita]

Tell me something, Zack: How come you've always defended me all game long and never doubted me until today? Also, why would I clear you and keep you alive, and then come today to declare I also jailed implosion last night? If I'm scum (thus by default I'm NOT a JK to begin with), why clear you and off someone else like Varsoon? In my mind, the right play would've been to kill YOU and let Varsoon live (or -generally speaking- kill the clears and leave the unconfirmed to end game).

Probably cause I'm on some serious drugs.

You're really aiming in the wrong direction going at me, though. I want you to know that.

So I want to vote imploder.

[Zachstralkita]

on the 1.4% chance he's a SCUM NURSE JOAT STRONGMAN 6-SHOT

[Zachstralkita]

Because you're right, I have seen you as town all game. I only stopped seeing you that way because logic.

[Zachstralkita]

CONVINCE you I'm town? I've been blatant town since Day 1. I pushed for a Nosferatu lynch when people weren't even talking about him. What fucking reason do I have to bus my partner that early? I also gunned for Airick's lynch on D4, was it?

[Zachstralkita]

If you looked at me and Titus interactions when we were voting each other and you DON'T see TvT, then I can't help you.

[Zachstralkita]

Zach might actually be mafia who bussed hard

Zach is normally completely (like 90%) wrong on who is scum so it's weird that they've been falling left and right - heavy bussing suspected

Even Dunn couldn't believe my reads were that good this game. And they WEREN'T even that good.

In light of this I'm reconsidering my stance on you, tbh. Your most recent "I don't need to prove a thing" is also bugging me. We're in LyLo, and you do need to convince me you're town if we're going to win this, but I fear if things stay the way they are I might be persuaded to vote you over implosion and hope that it's the right decision.

Please tell me detective, why would I intentionally do that when I could have, you know, played like I played the rest of the game where I didn't get lynched? What do I benefit from bluffing hard when there's no need to and would decrease the chances of me surviving?

[Zachstralkita]

I fucked up because I helped speedlynch Boem and kraska. I effectively canceled out the advantage we had.


Why the fuck would I be so reckless as scum when

caution

is the exact reason the last scum has made it to the final 3? It doesn't make sense. As scum, the objective is to not get lynched, not to appear town. And you can see that implosion is trying to not get lynched in his post.


implosion wouldn't have wrote those 3 extra paragraphs if he were town. Varsoon's role along with Peregrine's flip should have been the only reason he needed. Instead, he also says " but there are other better reasons to think that I'm town over him.", which is excessive and seems paranoid. It looks like he's just covering all his bases, but if he was honestly town there would be literally no reason to do that.

[Zachstralkita]

If you looked at me and Titus interactions when we were voting each other and you DON'T see TvT, then I can't help you.

Oh, shut! Titus did flip TOWN!

Like I SAID SHE WOULD ON DAY 1?

[Zachstralkita]

OK, you both are bringing good points to the table, although I still feel implosion's arguments are more solid to be extremely blunt.

OK, Zack: how do you explain the Varsoon role in light of Scum!implosion? Because that point in his argument is solid as a rock.

I am a backup Nurse.
I know there is a Nurse and a Doctor in the game.
I had thought my role told me they were a

town

nurse and doctor, but it turns out that they could be any alignment.
At the very least, I can confirm their claim, which is likely to be town, imo.

Point blank, Varsoon's role confirms role, not alignment. He even says here that it's ambiguous.

[Zachstralkita]

Nah, I'm gonna vote A50.

[Zachstralkita]

That's objectively not true.

I have a 50/50 shot of lynching scum between you two and I'm TRYING to make the right choice.

[Zachstralkita]

What part of what I said are you calling objectively not true? And why do you say that?
And if it's that I don't think you look like you're trying to figure out who scum is today, in what way can you justify that you objectively appear to be scumhunting today?

I've ISO'd you both and I didn't want to believe it because A50 has been my townread all game. But what sealed it for me is that A50 is acting like the conf here when you should be. I dunno, picking between you two was probably the worst LYLO I could end up in, and I directly helped influence that.

[Zachstralkita]

This game is killing me. I hate to lose, but I'd hate it even more if I was the reason we lost. For what it's worth, implo still looks more convincing to me. I took Zach for granted way too long, but -gun to my head and forced to cast a vote right now- I think I'll vote him.

Is there anything more either of you would like to add, ask, or advise me to do? (Other than the "vote him bc I'm town" cliché).

I would appreciate if you voted yourself and lost

[Zachstralkita]

I would appreciate if you voted yourself and lost

Now you're being overly silly! I can't do that as either alignment, but I view this as a tactic to avoid responding to the points thrown your way by both implosion and myself.

Is that right.

Let me get this straight: You are town, and you believe implosion is town, and think that I'm scum. Is this your final stance?

It would appear so.

[Zachstralkita]

I would appreciate if you voted yourself and lost

Now you're being overly silly! I can't do that as either alignment, but I view this as a tactic to avoid responding to the points thrown your way by both implosion and myself.

Let me get this straight: You are town, and you believe implosion is town, and think that I'm scum. Is this your final stance?

This game is killing me. I hate to lose, but I'd hate it even more if I was the reason we lost. For what it's worth, implo still looks more convincing to me. I took Zach for granted way too long, but -gun to my head and forced to cast a vote right now- I think I'll vote him.

Is there anything more either of you would like to add, ask, or advise me to do? (Other than the "vote him bc I'm town" cliché).

I may as well lose here if no one sees that these posts are practically a scumclaim.

[Zachstralkita]

LOL.. a scum claim?? The reason I asked if that was your final stance is to help me ease my mind voting you. Even if you're town; voting me loses the game. So -from my own PoV- I can only vote you and hope implo will join me AND that he is actually town.

No. Your supposed " POV " should have two outcomes, implosion being scum and him winning when he helps you vote me.

You say " even if you're town; voting me loses the game" and in the same breath you declare you're going to vote me?



You realize what that means, right? It means you acknowledge that I could be town(you know I'm town) and you still opt for that. You're not attacking implosion because he's not a threat to your safety. You don't really care about the town's win condition -- your play doesn't indicate such.

I am curious what exactly in those posts you're referring to, Zach; I think I know what you're referring to (in which case I have more questions of course) but. If you could explain things clearly rather than just pointing to posts and irreverently declaring them scumclaims it would be much more helpful.

You know what, JUST for you.

This game is killing me. I hate to lose, but I'd hate it even more if I was the reason we lost.

For what it's worth, implo still looks more convincing to me. I took Zach for granted way too long, but -gun to my head and forced to cast a vote right now- I think I'll vote him.

Is there anything more either of you would like to add, ask, or advise me to do? (Other than the "vote him bc I'm town" cliché).[/

quote]

BOLDED: LAMIST, for lack of a better term. He's treating himself as the conf and deciding vote and indirectly assuming authority. YOU'RE the one that should be holding and wielding this authority, implosion, by all means.

I would appreciate if you voted yourself and lost

Now you're being overly silly! I can't do that as either alignment, but I view this as a tactic to avoid responding to the points thrown your way by both implosion and myself.

Let me get this straight: You are town, and you believe implosion is town, and think that I'm scum. Is this your final stance?

BOLDED: An obvious twisted interpretation of my actions to suit his agenda. He also says " I can't do that as either alignment", just to cover all the bases like a smug fluffy scum ostrich would. Do you not agree this is the case?


The last sentence is like, he's... there was no need to say that. It's obviously what I'm saying.

[Zachstralkita]

LOL.. a scum claim?? The reason I asked if that was your final stance is to help me ease my mind voting you. Even if you're town; voting me loses the game. So -from my own PoV- I can only vote you and hope implo will join me AND that he is actually town.

No. Your supposed " POV " should have two outcomes, implosion being scum and him winning when he helps you vote me.

You say " even if you're town; voting me loses the game" and in the same breath you declare you're going to vote me?



You realize what that means, right? It means you acknowledge that I could be town(you know I'm town) and you still opt for that. You're not attacking implosion because he's not a threat to your safety. You don't really care about the town's win condition -- your play doesn't indicate such.

I am curious what exactly in those posts you're referring to, Zach; I think I know what you're referring to (in which case I have more questions of course) but. If you could explain things clearly rather than just pointing to posts and irreverently declaring them scumclaims it would be much more helpful.

You know what, JUST for you.

This game is killing me. I hate to lose, but I'd hate it even more if I was the reason we lost.

For what it's worth, implo still looks more convincing to me. I took Zach for granted way too long, but -gun to my head and forced to cast a vote right now- I think I'll vote him.

Is there anything more either of you would like to add, ask, or advise me to do? (Other than the "vote him bc I'm town" cliché).[/

quote]

BOLDED: LAMIST, for lack of a better term. He's treating himself as the conf and deciding vote and indirectly assuming authority. YOU'RE the one that should be holding and wielding this authority, implosion, by all means.

I would appreciate if you voted yourself and lost

Now you're being overly silly! I can't do that as either alignment, but I view this as a tactic to avoid responding to the points thrown your way by both implosion and myself.

Let me get this straight: You are town, and you believe implosion is town, and think that I'm scum. Is this your final stance?

BOLDED: An obvious twisted interpretation of my actions to suit his agenda. He also says " I can't do that as either alignment", just to cover all the bases like a smug fluffy scum ostrich would. Do you not agree this is the case?


The last sentence is like, he's... there was no need to say that. It's obviously what I'm saying.

FUCK. I FUCKED UP THE QUOTE SO I DIDNT BOLD IT. fixed.

[Zachstralkita]

I know I considered implosion scum (first, actually, and moreso than implosion) but I'm either a fucking moron or... A town backup nurse and a town doctor but the nurse is scum? I don't want to believe the game is loaded.

[Zachstralkita]

I know I considered implosion scum (first, actually, and moreso than implosion) but I'm either a fucking moron or... A town backup nurse and a town doctor but the nurse is scum? I don't want to believe the game is loaded.

*moreso than A50

[Zachstralkita]

sorry, I'm just in too many games.

replacing out

rip my replacement for having to read through all this.

pedit: or you guys could lynch me, that could happen too.

Is this an invitation? This doesn't sound towny.

that's a loaded question. If you guys were still looking for scum, ^^^^^.

Loaded questions are more like " Hey, how often do you beat your wife?" or " Did your elbow hurt after you shot John F. Kennedy?"

For someone who doesn't have time to spend in this thread, it would seem you have... time to spend in this thread when it's deflecting people off your scummy ass. Au revoir.

I would have directly bussed Nos (To reiterate, I was the SECOND initial vote on Nosferatu's wagon BEFORE Nosferatu was even Vedith, back when there were a few votes on Nos the first time. The first person on that initial wagon was WAKE. ) for NO REASON?

vc 1.12

Zachstralkita (1):

Mirhawk

Sickofit1138 (2):

PeregrineV, Dunnstral

Dunnstral (2):

Sickofit1138, Varsoon

Titus (2):

AGar, Lapsa

PeregrineV (3):

Almost50, podoboq, implosion

Wake88 (1):

shannon

Transcend (1):

Titus

Almost50 (1):

Transcend

Nosferatu (2):

Zachstralkita, Wake88

No Lynch (1):

Performer

Not Voting:

Airick10, Nosferatu, Boem_u_dusi

Nosferatu was not a topic beforehand. The votes on him PRIOR to this in other VCs were podoboq and Dunnstral -- all separate, so one vote each. He was not receiving pressure whatsoever.

Now my vote on him means I actually wanted his lynch because I actually pushed for it later on, after all the bullshit.



So yeah, I'd have bussed him, like, hard as shit for no reason instead of getting any one of the fucking townies lynched, for towncred? Yeah? Just so I could look town all the way up to............. NOW?

Say what you want, but I never expected it to make it this long in the game. But I'm scum and that's what I did? And even in LYLO I'm playing as brash as I am with virtually no " content " in your posts or presenting a defense backed up with facts and evidence until now?

LOL

[Zachstralkita]

^ content in MY posts. Okay thats like a 7tuple post I'm sorry

[Zachstralkita]

@Zach:

Of course I treat myself as "conf", and if you were town you should too. I mean, the MOD must've told you your alignment, so you KNOW whether you are town or not. I may not be confirmed to wither of you, but TO ME I am! Duh!

no. Implosion is role-confirmed, it is right for him to be acting as such. What you're saying here and what I was addressing are two different things.


You're asserting that you're the deciding vote and the one who determines the outcome of this.

That's why I asked if that was you FINAL stance. You said it was, so there's no chance we're winning this if I vote implosion anyway, and I would rather bank on our 37.5% chance of winning by voting you than on a 0% chance by voting him.

Vote me.

[Zachstralkita]

I'm a 1-shot vigilante, I shot Lapsa.

What's important here is that Dunn claims the Lapsa kill first. Let's all applaud his brilliance for a second. (blatant sarcasm)

Lapsa dies. But scum sees an opportunity for a fakeclaim because they targeted Lapsa as well.

A50 can claim JK off of the strength of this, and he'll be believed because it lines up. There was no real reason for him to claim Jailkeeper in the first place, even if he WERE a jailkeeper? Why?

---> Lapsa dies

---> Dunn claims to have targeted Lapsa

--> Dunn was " jailkept " (In this theoretical scenario, only town!A50 knows this and it has not been announced in the thread.)


OBVIOUS CONCLUSION: SOMEONE ELSE TARGETED LAPSA. BUT WHAT HAPPENS????

OK.. I'm totally lost, so you guys work it out.

1- I'm the Jailkeeper
2- Dunn didn't shoot Lapsa bc I Jailed HIM (Dunn).
3- I let him go with it to see if he was faking, and it looks to me that he totally believed his shit, so he may still be a vig and all, but he DID NOT SHOOT LAPSA! Period.

?????????

He couldn't have done the numbers in his head, and went to 4, and said, " Oh, shit. I guess scum shot Lapsa too."

Only investigative role that town has heard from is ME and my role is super weak as it is.

Well, I'm about to prove to you that JK COULD be used as an investigating role too. It's one of the basics you learn in BEGINNERS games.

This quote right here from D4 shows us A50 is not a beginner, so he does not do this because he is a confused townie and doesn't know any better.

No, he completely feigns ignorance and instead claims -- when a few posts earlier he says

Ok scum probably targeted me LMFAO but I had someone looking out for me

Probably no kill from mafia because I got docced.

Anyone else want to claim NOT doctor??

Berating myself and Dunn for narrowing it down, yet his claim OUTS another PR in theory (himself) and does the same thing.


Furthermore, we're still being theoretical here, but why does A50 "jail" Dunn in the first place?

a50, opinions on a vedith lynch?

I'm neutral on that lynch. That sot has not provided much through either of it's occupiers. I guess I'll go with it if it's between Vedith & Titus though. I'd much rather Peregrine still, but I'm the only one who thinks PV is lurking scum.

My full reads (in no particular order):

Town: Lapsa, Dunn, Zach, Mirhawk, Performer, Varsoon, Titus
Leaning town: AGar, shannon, Transcend, Boem, podoboq, implosion
Not sure (i.e. null): Sick, Airick, Wake, Vedith
Leaning scum: Peregrine

And I do realize I have too many town reads vs too little scum reads, but that's the way it is and until I see a flip I cannot draw connections, so the above table maybe redone upside down with a flip.

This was his most recent reads list, circa Day 1.

In his posts AFTER that before Day 1 ends, he does NOT address Dunn a lot, and his read on Dunn DOES NOT change.


Why does A50 jailkeep a

townread

of his?

The logic of A50's claim only follows because Dunn's claim happened. It is absolutely ludicrous otherwise.

Before Dunn even claimed, A50 jailkeeping Dunn on Night 1 does not make sense given the facts. That is, probably because A50 is not a jailkeeper and he is scum. Scum DID have a jailkeeper, though, and they could have used Airick to keep up the illusion that A50 indeed WAS the jailkeeper until Airick died, and THEN the illusion could be kept up by A50 selectively NKing.

And what does our hero do on the day Airick is lynched?

a50 who did you roleblock today?

*Scratches Head*

Airick!! This is getting confusing. we have at least 2 Mafioso members on the lose, and I'm not sure if the second kill the comes from vig or some second killing role with X shots. And yes, 2 Machos apparently were in the setup together, so I'm confused as hell.

My list of suspects include Transcend, beeboy and AGar, but I have no case on either tbh. Any good ideas?

Claims he jailkept Airick so Airick is absolved of suspicion. Later, he leaves himself room to backpedal on this when he says

Anyway, Airick might be scum yes, but he's not the one who shot "whoever the Mafia shot of the two" last night. But if there's another anti-town killing role then he's right back in it (the kills of last night) too. If it was Dunn who shot Wake/podoq then Airick steps back a little in favour of finding the actual killer.

But hang on, this doesn't make sense at all.

No matter what the fuck Airick was to anyone at that point in time, he couldn't have made ANY kill if he was actually jailkept. If another member of the mafia committed the kill, Airick is STILL cleared of that kill on the basis of being JK'd.

But what's this? Later... we have...

Frankly I'm getting bored, and I don't think my prime suspect (beeboy) is getting enough attention, so let's just end the day.

VOTE: Airick

If you read what I wrote just above and then come back to this.. does it make sense?

So.. just directly contradicted the results of his claim there with his own vote... that or mafia that WASN'T airick made the NK, in which case that certainly should have been pointed out by A50.

yeah, that..

all of that's fine.

You're asserting that you're the deciding vote and the one who determines the outcome of this.

Actually, implosion is the deciding vote right now. You and I are cross voting and he will get too choose between us.

Um, that was what I said he was supposed to be. But it's what YOU were acting like.

Is this a trick of some kind?? Because if it is; you've got me! OK..

VOTE: Zach

You yourself say implo is confirmed, so it's either you, you or you!!

Okay, leave that there. And the LAST thing I want is for implosion to come in and make me look like a fucking idiot by hammering me and winning the game on the .003% chance he's scum, but so be it.

[Zachstralkita]

VOTE: Almost50

[Zachstralkita]

(this is not a hammer)

I hope this wasn't to make me look even more like a fucking idiot when you actually do it.

[Zachstralkita]

God damn it, implosion. Now I know it for sure. It has to be A50. WHAT do I have to do to convince you of this?

Would you like me to quote you a bunch of fluffy scummy ostrich fur posts by him?

[Zachstralkita]

Otherwise idk why they wouldn't have just had airick claim the jk if they wanted to.

Because if A50 does it and got vigged or miraculously lynched, the scum doesn't lose their actual jailkeeper? That claim drew the entire spotlight on him.

[Zachstralkita]

OK, please hold on and let me address the last Zach post point by point (those points that I think do matter)

This is scum

If you don't hammer him he's only going to cloud your judgement more, implosion. He's survived this far.

[Zachstralkita]

He couldn't have done the numbers in his head, and went to 4, and said, " Oh, shit. I guess scum shot Lapsa too."

OK. What "other" meaning does my quoted post have, if not "scum must've targeted Lapsa"? The reason I did eventually claim is people were wondering who the mafia shot, and YOU -good sir- were suggesting they might've targeted you (which -by implication- was a blatant attempt by you to clear yourself by portraying as a "mafia target").

You're missing the point. The point was, if YOU came to that conclusion there was NO NEED to claim Jailkeeper.

were suggesting they might've targeted you (which -by implication- was a blatant attempt by you to clear yourself by portraying as a "mafia target").

Dunnstral also did the same thing, this was before he claimed vig and the kill on Lapsa, thus by extension being before you claimed.

What you just said has no relevance.

[Zachstralkita]

fucking quote tags

[Zachstralkita]

Mate, your paranoia calling every post I make scum is really getting to me. Actually, what you're doing IS the scummy behaviour at it's prime, and leaves no further doubts on my mind.!

One this is irrelevant because implosion is ten thousand percent town -- he would have voted and won by now. OF COURSE you're scum.

Also, implosion is here and he has us both voting eachother, so he is 100% town now, bc why would he not just hammer either of us and claim the win if he was scum??

Did they promote you to Chief Inspector at Scotland Yard yet? You realized I already acknowledged that, and that's why I'm voting YOU, right? Yep, you did.

[Zachstralkita]

Mate, your paranoia calling every post I make scum is really getting to me. Actually, what you're doing IS the scummy behaviour at it's prime, and leaves no further doubts on my mind.!

One this is irrelevant because implosion is ten thousand percent town -- he would have voted and won by now. OF COURSE you're scum.

Also, implosion is here and he has us both voting eachother, so he is 100% town now, bc why would he not just hammer either of us and claim the win if he was scum??

Did they promote you to Chief Inspector at Scotland Yard yet? You realized I already acknowledged that, and that's why I'm voting YOU, right? Yep, you did.

Man, this is funny! I can't stop laughing!! You say something and then quote an earlier post that states the same thing, but think bc your text is placed above the quote that you actually said it before me???

My VOTE on you before YOUR post was the acknowledgement of that. If I considered implosion was scum I wouldn't have voted you to let him hammer.

Seriously, selfvote.

Also, why did you feel the need to interrupt my posts in response to your quote wall? Are you too afraid if I put it all in sequence that your cover would be blown away?? Relax, mate. I'm not THAT convincing, and never have been. In fact, anybody who cares to read my previous games would realize 2 traits I cannot get rid of still:

I don't care about the rest of your points because town is in autowin if implosion lynches you. But this is just doubtcasting me for no reason. Everyone in this thread should know that I post like a coked up spidermonkey. It annoys people.



If implosion is scum here, he's absolutely heartless, probably the type of sick motherfucker that pours milk BEFORE the cereal,and I'm going to be taking a break from my life to collect myself emotionally if he is.

[Zachstralkita]

Same reason why I jailed YOU. I do jail my town reads for protection.

So uh, you're contradicting yourself here if I'm reading things correctly...

LYNCH DAT.

[Zachstralkita]

You imply in the post I linked that you jailed him because you thought his last-minute hammer was scummy, as far as I can tell.

His post just now is literally him trying to save himself.

[Zachstralkita]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHhHHHHHHHHH

Alright. Let's go ahead and compile a list of reasons right now for A50 being town:

The claim. Although I agree with Zach that the logic for it isn't great as town, it's a train of thought that i can certainly see happening. I just really don't see a ton of scum motivation for the d2 jailkeeper claim. A50 wasn't really under pressure, the result doesn't help frame anyone, it sticks his neck out there and limits the scumteam's future options for claiming, he risks drawing a counterclaim, it might have other interactions with roles in the setup making it a bad claim, it might be verifiably false by a tracker/watcher/rolecop (the former two assuming the scum didn't have two full jailkeepers), etc, etc.

-The no-kill. I protected A50 that night so if he is scum he chose to no-kill on n4. I don't see motivation for him to no-kill there: he has plenty of great kill targets (like dunnstral and Varsoon) and he'd need to whittle down the pool of town PRs quickly as he'd be screwed if, say, Dunn gets off enough shots. If Zach is scum then he's probably a limited shot strongman and so he realized "I got blocked last night, I need to use the strongman tonight" or something like that, which is a perfectly reasonable explanation for the lack of a kill.

-The willingness to be lynched. 6099 feels genuine. I just don't think he opens the day that way as scum with that much willingness to die. In 6168 he looks like he's legitimately trying to prove that there's no mafia strongman, which would seal his doom if he were scum. 6239 is also a post that's very unlikely to have been faked (I specifically highly doubt that he's lying in that post about his understanding of the strongman role). If he is being honest then I cannot imagine him committing actual suicide as scum by elucidating exactly why scum would have to be either him or me.

-Dunn's second vig on Zach failing. Why does A50 jail Zach that night if he's scum? I guess he might want to keep Zach around as a mislynch but he'd know that killing Dunn + not jailing Zach would lead to two kills on town that night which would subsequently put the game in evens, which would be very advantageous to him since he'd be able to guarantee a kill each night.

-The Vedith wagon. This is what it looks like if A50 is scum:

Titus (3): Lapsa, Varsoon, Wake88
Vedith (10): AGar, Performer, PeregrineV, Zachstralkita, beeboy, Titus, Transcend, Boem_u_dusi, shannon, Dunnstral
AGar (4):

Airick10, Almost50

, podoboq, implosion
shannon (2):

Mirhawk, Vedith

Not Voting: None

This just looks absurd. Scum parked their votes on two other wagons like this, and no one wanted to bus/distance from Vedith? I really imagine at least some scum would be voting Vedith here because he was being pretty scummy and I think scum would want to gain some cred from a likely lynch target.

.

1. How does it risk drawing a counterclaim if scum have a JK? If scum had a JK, why the fuck would town? You know why I see it happening? because it happened.

2. So I can be a strongman but A50 can't? You know... he's not a JK...

3. I've had a bunch of selfvoting shenanigans this game and tons of occasions where I did not fear death. When A50 acts like this, it is somehow convincing to you but I am doubted still? Dude, town was in autowin before I lynched a bunch of townies. Also, the post that immediately follows that is kraska voting ME, which I think proves something... and you should know what it is.

4. What exactly proves that I

was

jailed? I'm VT. It's not like I have an action. You seem to think A50 is still an RB, when this could have been faked with Airick's assistance while he was alive.

5. Scum have to bus? Obviously not, and it worked well since he's in LYLO. He bussed Airick at the end, sure. Did you see where I pointed out how bad that whole thing looked?

[Zachstralkita]

well apparently i'm still awake so

1. How does it risk drawing a counterclaim if scum have a JK? If scum had a JK, why the fuck would town? You know why I see it happening? because it happened.

a) scum having a role does not mean town doesn't have that role... I mean, you were accepting A50 as town up until today.
b) this is one of six reasons I gave why the claim doesn't make sense with a50 as scum. You're engaging with a tiny fraction of the argument I'm making.

2. So I can be a strongman but A50 can't? You know... he's not a JK...

I mean, if A50 is scum he's probably not a strongman (he could be but there's nothing that points to it). I don't understand how this is refuting or addressing my point at all, I still don't see why A50 would have no-killed on that night, for the reasons that I stated.

3. I've had a bunch of selfvoting shenanigans this game and tons of occasions where I did not fear death. When A50 acts like this, it is somehow convincing to you but I am doubted still? Dude, town was in autowin before I lynched a bunch of townies. Also, the post that immediately follows that is kraska voting ME, which I think proves something... and you should know what it is.

There are important differences between your selfvoting shenanigans and what he's done:
-You were essentially just selfvoting whenever anyone called you scum as if to say "lol fuck you." That to me doesn't sound like a genuine willingness to be lynched whereas A50 laying out the reasons for his willingness and essentially painting himself into a corner with his definition of what a strongman is does.
-You strike me as much more... not sure what the right word is, maybe risky. Based on what I glean of A50's personality based on his play this game I just don't really see him taking the "kill me then him" tact as scum, a tact that I could easily see you taking in a situation in which you view yourself as behind. Note that this point is less important than the first.

I also don't know what you're getting at with kraska voting you.

4. What exactly proves that I was jailed? I'm VT. It's not like I have an action. You seem to think A50 is still an RB, when this could have been faked with Airick's assistance while he was alive.

The fact that you lived through the night that Dunn died proves that you were jailed that night. Airick was dead at that point. Dunnstral almost certainly shot you, I think. He shot beeboy the night before and there was no scumkill with a jail on you, and he'd been airing suspicion of you all game. You'd be the natural shot that night. How else can you possibly explain his vig not going through? Do you think he shot A50 (who I protected)? Because I don't think it's feasible that he'd have shot A50 that night.

5. Scum have to bus? Obviously not, and it worked well since he's in LYLO. He bussed Airick at the end, sure. Did you see where I pointed out how bad that whole thing looked?

Again, you're not engaging with the actual points I'm making... I specifically think that scum would have wanted to have

at least someone

bussing Vedith for towncred because he replaced into a lurky slot and was acting pretty scummy and was, once he replaced in, a pretty obvious potential lynch target. You're ignoring almost all of the points I'm making.

1. a) okay.... AND? my decision has reversed given the circumstances.
b)


I'm legitimately tired of arguing the obvious. YOU want to be sure and I GET THAT, but to me the answer is obvious and I'm impatient after it's been THIS long and we've got THIS far.


2.

3. Dude, I was perfectly about getting myself lynched. I could say some shit about how I'd do it right now to spite you, but let's be real. I want to win this game and my literal only obstacle is convincing you that A50 is scum. Also, the point there was after he said " kill me then kill him", NO ONE TRIED TO kill him. It's called a bluff, and it worked.

4. Why did Dunn even have to take a shot that night??

5. So as scum with one vote to hammer me I'd be intentionally obtuse interacting with you when you've expressed your disdain for that MULTIPLE times over? Even if you think so, there's no reason scum expressly HAD to bus Vedith. And there's no reason A50 was the one that had to do it. Think about it, the ENTIRE wagon of that lynch being town? Bussing probably would have been suspected off of meta anyway. They were just working against that.

[Zachstralkita]

"I started getting ideas". The "act" was scummy, alright, but my "idea" was that he was intentionally trying to draw a NK. I didn't want to lose him on N1 bc he is a very GOOD asset to town.

Ah. This makes sense. Actually also a pretty significant towntell since that's a line of thought you'd be unlikely to think of faking as scum.

REALLY? holy shit.

[Zachstralkita]

The reasons you said don't explain A50 town, they just explain why he hasn't been lynched up until now.

[Zachstralkita]

scumline ^

[Zachstralkita]

This game has gone from hyper-active at the start to dead silent now. Is there anything either of you would like to ask or discuss with me? I obviously have nothing to add myself at this time.

I'm lock scum to you. You do not say this as town. Game.

[Zachstralkita]

scumline ^

May I sneeze? Can I cough? Am I allowed to BLINK?? Are you going to just sit there waiting for me to say just about anything to call it a scum line, scum post or scum claim?? Man I do feel for you. I truly do. Having come so close with what seemed like a perfect plan.. and if it's any consolation I for one would consider you a winner regardless.

Btw, I now know the answer to my earlier question. Going through my older notes of the game I found a remark that states "Zach, Transcend & implosion move their votes together". I believe that was in the first half of D1. That explains why Transcend, implosion and myself made it to the last 5, and why I am left alive. It's bc I was sheeping you (and you were buddying me hard) all the game, so you thought I would make a perfect ally against implosion in this situation. This also explains why Transcend was eventually killed, because he was adamant shannon was town, and was pushing against me which would have sabotaged your plan.

Tell me I'm wrong and I'll just shut up!

If you hadn't made a scumpost, I wouldn't have referred to it as such. But you did. So here we are.


You're wrong.


No like, you're really, really, painfully wrong. But it's okay. It's all you can do.

[Zachstralkita]

Hold this L

[Zachstralkita]

That was painful.

A50 played really fucking well though. GG all around guys

[Zachstralkita]

Implosion, Zach

did both of you forget that the REASON WE NO LYNCHED

was to test to see if A50 had roleblocking powers or not?

I guess you did.

I am honored to be in your sig LMFAO

[Zachstralkita]

You were too innocent and pure


implosion didn't see your dark, dark soul

[Zachstralkita]

I think I tossed our advantage out the window by pushing too fast. Oh well, my bad.

[Zachstralkita]

I found this gem in the golden Dead PT:

Zach is really the MVP of this game.

And I'm not being sarcastic.

Thread later devolves into " Zach is a fucking idiot " though I'm sure

[Zachstralkita]

you just didn't factor in the possibility of a sleek rogue variable like me.

more and more so it feels like 'useless junk variable' tbh

[Zachstralkita]

so yo implosion, did the fact that I left a bad impression on you since the beginning of this game factor into how it ended up?

[Zachstralkita]

Congratulations everyone, we are witness to the end of an era, the last large normal played in an exclusive subforum.

[Zachstralkita]

Dunn literally got his role PM and added the " town magnet " attachment to his bullets LOL

[Zachstralkita]

so I feel like podo's baseball guy gif was underrated this game.