Open 651: Stack the Deck (Game Over)

[HighHopes]

{Sir Bastion, Raskol}
{superbowl, Lycanfire, Sora}
{light, NJAC}
{kyndy, Hebee Inc, Vedith}
Vedith traitor, kyndy and Hebee groupscum.

Game solved.

[HighHopes]

VOTE: kyndy.

[light_ganski]

Ugh sorry I didn't post last night, my computer froze twice while trying to post and it was late so I needed to sleep

Anyway here's some reads:
Town - Shaddowez
Lean town - Superbowl, Sora, Kyndy
Null - Lycanfire, Sir Bastion
Lean scum - Vedith, NJAC
Haven't looked at the hydras/Raskolnikov yet

Starting with Vedith - Seems to prefer quantity over quality in his posts (67, 69, 71, 98 etc), even though he's been the most active poster he's posted way too much filler and fluff and surprisingly little content. 115 I don't get, why is he looking for his own buddies (if I'm missing something here please tell me). Already said what I disliked about 55. 142 is towny but thats about it.

Lycanfire - As I said

could

be opportunistic scum, voting Vedith because he was defensive/jumpy and then jumping onto me in 110 for questionable reasoning, but I think that contradicts the scum read on Vedith and in any case I think he's more likely over-confident town than scum. Posted lots of filler, made hardly any content - anti-town but not (I think) a scum tell here.

Superbowl, Sora - Both have posted constructive, game-advancing posts and have been clear about their positions (114, 156, 154, 177), though Sora hasn't posted much + it would be nice to see more from him. In particular I am impressed with superbowl's case on NJAC (177, 186) although I'd rather lynch Vedith today.

Kyndy - Whilst her case against Vedith (137) is a little weak I feel like it's town-motivated and it's conclusions match my reads of Vedith. Again his reads appear sound to me (167). This is a very slight town read though, not as strong as Sora/Superbowl.

NJAC -

Really

don't like 178 - kyndy's reads look okay to me. Disagree with 162 with regard to Sora as well. I can't fault Superbowl's case against him. Not as strong a read as vedith but getting stronger.

[light_ganski]

@NJAC - why did you scumread Superbowl in 163

[light_ganski]

@ HighHopes - could you elaborate your read on Kyndy please

[Vedith]

Game solved.

Thank god for that!
Lets all sit back and lynch this read guys, it's GG

[Vedith]

I'm also going to repeat something - Kyndy is normally mis lynched.
Lets keep that tradition up, eh?

[SoraAdvent]

I don't want to pester you too much, but before you do anything else Vedith could I get a reads list please?

[light_ganski]

Can we have one from Lycanfire too?

[Vedith]

I don't want to pester you too much, but before you do anything else Vedith could I get a reads list please?

No, you can't
I will give you my reads when I feel ready and justified.

You can however, watch my opinions progress as the day passes.

[lilith2013]

Votecount 1.006

HighHopes and Hebee Inc have responded to their prods so no replacements necessary.

kyndy101 [3]

Vedith, Sir Bastion, HighHopes

Vedith [3]

kyndy101, light_ganski, SoraAdvent

Hebee Inc [1]

Raskolnikov

light_ganski [1]

Lycanfire

SoraAdvent [1]

NJAC

NJAC [1]

superbowl9

Lycanfire [1]

Hebee Inc

Not Voting [1]

shaddowez

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline: (expired on 2016-08-22 01:30:00)

pagetop count: NJAC 2 | light_ganski 2 | HighHopes 1 | Vedith 1 | shaddowez 1 | kyndy101 1

[superbowl9]

I don't want to pester you too much, but before you do anything else Vedith could I get a reads list please?

No, you can't
I will give you my reads when I feel ready and justified.

You can however, watch my opinions progress as the day passes.

Considering that the wagons are heating up and this post
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Vedith

[Vedith]

Spooky!

[SoraAdvent]

Reads post coming in ~1 hour

[Vedith]

Reads post coming in ~1 hour

And respond to my comment to you please.
It's very important.

[NJAC]

Vedith's the traitor with kyndy as one of the groupscums btw.

Please elaborate this.

[Vedith]

Please elaborate this.

They are just stupid basically.
They think as traitor I would be trying to push myself as it to the scum team, while soft defending Kyndy.

As traitor this would be no benefit for the following reasons
1 - I would have a BP, they would suspect me as traitor if they attacked
2 - Distancing as a traitor is what you want to do If you make scum realise you are the traitor, town will realise it as well.
3 - Possible chance there is no traitor

It's their bad attempt to discredit how I play.

[NJAC]

@NJAC - why did you scumread Superbowl in 163

Pretty much what I said in 160, but after 177 he's back to null, as I can see now what was his reason for voting me.

[NJAC]

Considering that the wagons are heating up and this post
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Vedith

But that post is townie. What exactly is wrong with that post?

[kyndy101]

I'm making a post, but also have to work so I'll post later

[SoraAdvent]

Something came up: I'll not be able to finish my post to a satisfactory level today and I'm already 30 mins late so

I'll post what I do have now and finish off thoughts on the rest later. For now vote stays on Vedith, but highly suspicious of NJAC.

~~~~

NJAC - mentioned before briefly, but I don't like just blindly sheeping the IC by any means at all. Here in 59, he mentions his reasoning is that it's a nice place to be: that doesn't seem to me to be solid reasoning at all and seems to be an attempt to curry favor with the IC. Followup post attempting to explain his reasoning is weak at best. There is a gigantic flip in opinion between what he says here in 119 regarding my initial thoughts on Vedith in my more general reads post (when he says 'I agree with what you said about Vedith. I'm also not a fan of his recent posts.'), where he completely sheeps what I say on Vedith, to here in 162, where he claims that I'm suddenly switching onto Vedith. I already have had reservations about Vedith, but the fact that he suddenly switches on me for something like this is odd. I get the concern, definitely, but I think? I've put more than enough effort into explaining my positions that I'm not opportunistically voting someone.

Regardless, his behaviour overall is really really wishy-washy and also smacks of someone who's getting overly flustered very quickly. Now that in itself isn't bad, but placing it in the context of Vedith's recent actions and other reactions it makes it look worse. Seeing that the pressure is on him/Vedith, he instantly casts anyone who doesn't consider them to be towny in any way/shape/form as 'scum'. Looking at his reads list, made before superbowl's longer post, he considers myself and superbowl to be the most leaning scum, while considering Vedith and Bastion to be more towny. Superbowl and I have been the most offensive on NJAC so far. Following on from this, after superbowl's 177 where he

actually calls out NJAC

, he posts a rather baffling 180, where he '(likes) superbowl's 177', despite it being a post against him. Personally, I interpret this as being a way to defuse the tension between him and superbowl so the latter wouldn't suspect him at once, but at the very least the wishy-washiness is really really jarring. I'm gonna be honest, I'm not 100% sure on this read, but at this point I'm interpreting his actions as scum flailing.

kyndy - I've already expressed my thoughts on her overreactive behaviour which you can find here. As mentioned in this post, however, I like the post she made with regards to Vedith, at least in its intent - if I'm not mistaken, someone said scum wouldn't tunnel on someone this early, and to be honest I kind of agree with that statement, though not fully. In addition, although I do think her reads are playing it super safe right now (not deviating too much from myself/superbowl's reads which are posted on the same page), I like the effort shown towards straight-up contributing to the town. I still have my reservations, so I'm gonna say null leaning scum with some confidence (as oxymoronic as that is)

Lycanfire - Reading kinda null on his first five or so posts. Both are relatively nothingish posts that imo are still fine in the early game, as nothing's set in stone yet. I don’t like how he basically hasn’t contributed at all to the game even in later posts as the game develops past even 100 or so, made clear in his RVS vote on 101 and not contributing at all to the game on 149, then being completely inactive for the last 24 hours or so. Definitely null leaning scum to me, at the very least.

Question to Lycanfire: can you provide reads, please?

(unfinished)

Superbowl - Probably town, has contributed a lot to the development of the town and provides very strong analysis overall. First person to post reads is definitely a plus in terms of kickstarting activity and moving past the RVS post. (unfinished)

~~~~

Pedit: OK, I'll respond to Vedith's 179 and 209. I'm really angry and tired, so expect this to be rambly. I won't be providing evidence/explanations yet but will hopefully do so over the course of the next day or so. Take this as a mini post on Vedith if you like.

179:

I want to know your meta before this. I haven't had the time/motivation to do so yet, but I really want to read it over the next couple of days to make my read stronger - because I don't know whether you naturally act like this or not. Basically, comparing your actions in this game with your previous town/scum actions will help my read on you be more certain.

As for why I said it was Vedith being Vedith, I think 95's a perfect example of the type of posts you make. Short, contributing something to the town and relatively non-commital. Also it's in the context of replying to kyndy, and she was confused as to what it meant - if you need me to explain this clearer I will.

209:

You're acting in a severely anti-town way. First, you continually refute the current arguments on kyndy and the like, which is fine in and of itself. However, you don't even bother to attack anyone else (your vote is still on kyndy from RVS, for goodness' sake), and you end up just distracting the town while making sure nothing's being done to further the game forward. You use straw man arguments to portray opposing people's arguments as stupid, you respond in posts that appear to contribute and be confident but are hilariously non-commital, and again don't bother pushing the game in any particular direction. I really want to hope that you're just town acting in a manner that's incredibly distracting and, if I may be a little bit blunt, kind of useless, but it makes sense to think you're scum who's deliberately trying to get you/your partners off the heat.

Your multiple posts may suggest you're active, but you're in reality saying nothing at all. You say things and don't back them up with anything other than a hand wave of things like 'The case on the random unvote is weak, and too weak for a vote on her imo. Her "defending herself" I disagree with.', which doesn't explain

WHY

you disagree at all.

In short, please actually contribute to the town by providing your reads instead of constantly refuting arguments and in general distracting the town.

~~~~

Reads List

Scum (S>W):

Vedith, NJAC, Lycanfire (a little less so), Kyndy

Null (S>T):

Hebee Inc, Raskolnikov (full null), Sir Bastion

Town (S>W):

shadow (conf), superbowl, HighHopes

Defo have confirmation bias here but w/e they're initial reads anyways.

[NJAC]

I'll join Vedith's wagon if it comes to that point where I'm obviously not going to get one on you/

the vedith wagon seems like its going to be the actual D1 lynch

Y'know, I was wondering, why are you limiting our lynch options this early? You seem to be fine with lynching Vedith, but I still don't see why we should lynch him. I also think we're still in the early D1 and some players have not engaged in the game yet, so why do you think no other wagon will gain traction?

[Vedith]

I want to know your meta before this.

As for why I said it was Vedith being Vedith, I think 95's a perfect example of the type of posts you make.

Scum found.
You want to know my meta, but you imply that you know it already from the type of posts I make.
This could be Vedith not being Vedith, but you have already decided that this is Vedith being Vedith while asking for meta on me.
And you can't say that this is wrong, because you are responding to a comment about me with saying that it's my usual play, just to ignore it (TYhis is what I get from, Vedith being Vedith).

Your reads are basically mirror with High Hopes (Who I haven't decided yet if I think scum or not)

Why did I keep my vote on Kyndy? I wanted to see what scum would use this to their advantage. In 156 he defends me voting Kyndy, in 220 he uses it for an excuse to push me as scum, but in a subtle way.

Now, second scum I feel is Light ("Oh no, you think 2 people voting you are scum?!"). The reason being 202 - This post is basically a copy of what's already in the game. What pinged me so hard about it?
"142 is townie" - After the discussion of my 142 post had already happened. I'm 100% sure that if I didn't question 146, he would have called that town. I want to know here what makes it town, I mean I know what makes it a town but, but does he? He is saying what has already been said, and making his opinion, while he actually has none.
His comment about Superbowl is basically - "Yeah, we got our mis lynch tomorrow"
I think what he did wrong here was look at me as an easier mis lynch, and automatically started to buddy anyone going this way. His town reads on people are because they find either me or NJAC as scum, and for nothing else.

I am Goon Cop btw.

Counter claim me or believe me! I have no reason to claim so early as scum, and the gambit of knowing that there is a Goon cop is too big this early with such weak pressure.

The reason I have been holding out for my main comments is because I knew scum would try and use this as an excuse, as they don't actually scum hunt.

Kyndy is town
NJAC is town
Lycanfire is town
Vedith is town
Shadow is town

That's 5 players already town.

Going to setup.
So 196 is terrible.
I've been in the setup and played enough times to know that not taking anything is bollocks, and just lucky.

These are what we have a chance of getting

Goon Cop ~ Only good if nothing is picked (hitting 2/3 scum) or if traitor is recruited only (hitting 3/3 scum)
Roleblocker ~ Not effective overall, scum can fake not killing to out the role, scum can also pick a roleblocker themselves, and lets face it, most the time you're going in blind
Tracker ~ Number 1 of the effective roles in all scenerios, regardless how many scum powers, this is 1 of 2 only good roles
Bodyguard ~ I don't rate this in the setup, the role dies, that's all
Vigilante ~ More chance than not, shoots town. The only risk with this role is finding the traiter (see below)
Innocent Child (reveal at start of day one) ~ Scum already know 1 role, great, it's a really good role for scum side.

The perfect setup to counter these are recruit scum, JOAT and Role Cop / Bulletproof (Doesn't matter as both have a benefit, I prefer Role Cop though, as if the vigilante hits you, he already knows)
The reason for this is because then the Goon cop only hits 1/3, making the role useless overall. Roleblocker just has more roles to block, doesn't have great effect early game (maybe more later game.
Tracker can be ninja OP. Other than that, Tracker will always hurt scum in the long run.
BG - Dies
Vigilante just has more PR to kill, whoop whoop
Innocent child is just destined to die, and destined to be lazy in the game as they are proven town.

Having day talk doesn't change much to a good team who can talk and organise at night. Give words starting on a post as a code etc.
Having 3 scum working together works so well, as pushing and lynching a traitor gives you no town credit at all.

Challenge me.

Also @Everyone - Stop saying you are going to do a big post, this isn't fucking school, put your hands down and just do one.

[Vedith]

VOTE: SoraAdvent

This part would help

[light_ganski]

Vedith, if you're not fake claiming and you scum read me I request that you investigate me tonight.