Micro 640: Perfect Cherry Blossom (Game Over)

[DarkLightA]

yes, DLA, you're on my list, I haven't forgotten you from Saki. ~

<3
I literally reviewed that game yesterday after seeing you on the player list. Still my favorite game of all time

VOTE: pieguyn
A vote of love

[DarkLightA]

I'm claiming town

[DarkLightA]

Oh shit i thought i was L-1

[DarkLightA]

Everyone help me and Edo do things and vote Pie

Cheers for mentioning me, I feel so warm and fuzzy and included

[DarkLightA]

(Pst, I'm feeling a bit out of the loop: you're not actually claiming mason are you?)

[DarkLightA]

(I'm trying my best. It would be nice if you didn't interrupt my fishing trip.)

[DarkLightA]

It started with a vote of love, and now ended up as a vote that I'm somewhat happy with for now.

[DarkLightA]

Theres been too much content with too little substance, while they seem to give off a substantive vibe

[DarkLightA]

It's not much (let's be real, it's nothing), but I like to start from square 1 rather than 0

[DarkLightA]

I agree

VOTE: Vedith

[DarkLightA]

So far he's just been throwing shit and seeing what sticks

[DarkLightA]

No, you are wrong.

I'm not going to go through it because:
1. I stated my position clearly, and people seem to agree.
2. I have no reason to go through it with you. You aren't likely to join your own wagon. If others are interested in specifics I can elaborate, but I don't think they will be.
3. I have better things to do with my time.

If you want to refute it, instead tell me why I'm wrong.

[DarkLightA]

The only reason that my vote isn't going on you instead of Wisdom now is because Wisdom's fake reaction to my lynch. Town Wisdom I feel would have ignored it, instead of looking at how many votes I really had and then "lynching" me.

What do you mean? Are you saying you think wisdom would have voted you as town at all? Or not gone through the fake lynch and put you L-1 without any drama?

[DarkLightA]

That's not what you're saying.

[DarkLightA]

So despite voting Wisdom for the entire game, the rationale only came on page 4?

[DarkLightA]

That's not of the essence here. I'm interested in whether you like your wisdom vote.

[DarkLightA]

Wisdom do you think vedith is scum?

[DarkLightA]

Have you considered getting any?

[DarkLightA]

You've come to the right thread for that. Now maybe go back a little.

[DarkLightA]

Do you think that makes her more likely to be scum?

[DarkLightA]

The loop -> O
me
.o
-|-
/.\

[DarkLightA]

Ding ding

[DarkLightA]

close enough

[DarkLightA]

I am sorry about dicking around earlier I genuinely feel bad right now. I would love to respond to your post in a more game progressing manner but the only reason I think you are reading me as scum based on what you have posted is that I rubbed you the wrong the way which I feel bad about but I don't feel compelled to explicitly tell you the contents of my role pm as a result when I think the ambiguity would be good for Luna and I.

Jesus fucking christ. I wanted to respond to pie first but that'll have to wait.

I just hate this so much.

If you go around hinting at something on PAGE 1, and then continually bring it up without taking a stand for anything, that's not helpful. That's very much the opposite—it's completely counterproductive for town. Scum start off with more information than town, and therefore a weak hinting will naturally give either the same, or more, information to scum than town. Never less.

You can make a soft claim or a hard claim, if you want to, do it on page 1 if you think it'll help town—be my guest. But both soft and hard claims involve taking a hard stance on a certain topic. None of this wishy-washy ambiguity you're coming with here. If you're ready to share information, tell us exactly what we need to know. Otherwise, hold your mouth shut until you are.

/end

[DarkLightA]

Now, pie..

Re: This:

2. I have no reason to go through it with you. You aren't likely to join your own wagon. If others are interested in specifics I can elaborate, but I don't think they will be.

I'd like specifics!

also, re: your other post, I wouldn't classify any of my first posts in the game as "content", nor were they intended as content.

& This:

another thing about Vedith: his read on Wisdom is hilariously wrong but I think it actually shows a pretty OK depth of thought as far as early-game reads go. I'd like if people could let me know if/why they disagree.

I'll happily elaborate. Vedith has made two attacks so far this game, on wisdom and on me. There's been a few other remarks, but these aren't notable.

In each case, he's started his attack with a weak footing, and built it up in the subsequent pages. Now of course people scumhunt by attacking etc, but in Vedith's case he's actually setting his read before the attack. To me, it seems like he is fitting the responses to his reads, and not the other way round. This is dangerous.
Take wisdom; vedith has been voting wisdom the entire game, ever since his RVS/"Serious" vote in his first post. Since then it's developed into his main read with no major competition bar me. However, he explains his vote as being based in the more recent fake-hammer. To me this seems opportunistic, like he's looking for scummy behavior to justify his vote rather than scum.

Or me: he accuses me of rolefishing in 66, and ignores it until after the whole L-1 thingy, when he picks up on my scent again.

Note this, it's important:

he initially doesn't care about my response, but after he's pressured, he asks me to justify me vote on him. I respond, and suddenly he sees me as scummy. To me it seems like he's justifying his suspicion of me (He says "The only reason that my vote isn't going on you instead of Wisdom now is because Wisdom's fake reaction to my lynch.") with the rolefishing post... Read through his posts there, 66-97, there's nothing to change his opinion? Is he threatening to vote me because of 96? That's a weak reason if I ever heard one.

[DarkLightA]

I have no patience for this: Luna and bee, are you masons?

[DarkLightA]

Okay, thank you. I have no idea why you claimed day 1, but now we can get started.

I'd like it if pie would stop voting my Mason buddy and started trying to work together with us instead of pushing for a mislynch

I want none of this. Not from you, not from bee. And I've seen A LOT of this.

Being masons does not mean you are both town. Don't act like it.

[DarkLightA]

...I just reviewed the mafiascum wiki, am I wrong here?

[DarkLightA]

inb4 ninja x2. Okay that helps a lot.

[DarkLightA]

Yes I didn't realize masons and neighbors are different roles. My bad.

[DarkLightA]

UNVOTE:

It scares me that neither of you two are on vedith's wagon.

[DarkLightA]

@Edo why are you voting for vedith?

[DarkLightA]

also would not object to some more TNE in this game.
VOTE: thenewearth
I'll park here for the time being.

[DarkLightA]

What makes you doubt them?

[DarkLightA]

So you think they're scum?

[DarkLightA]

Do you have any reason to think this?

[DarkLightA]

See, I don't think they would fake that. If they are it's a one stop shop onto my no play list

[DarkLightA]

also @DLA, to expand further on a few things:

I fucking hate when people refuse to interact with me because "you're scum, I'll interact with other people about you but I won't interact with you". it's a bad mindset that doesn't lead to clear discussion. what you did to him was basically exactly that, and when he asked you what you thought of his Wisdom vote you continued doing it.

Yes, absolutely. Of course you shouldn't shut down someone because you think they're scum, quite the opposite. In an ideal world you would follow through on all topics. Unfortunately, the world isn't ideal.

When a player isn't under pressure and I get a scumread, I will make a case. I will do so to persuade the other players that I am correct. If the person I am accusing wants to refute it, so be it, they are welcome to. If I am joining an established wagon, I will not make as strong a case, as a case already tends to exist in the gameplay. The precise problem I have with the way Vedith did it is that he said: "DLA - Go through this."

...

"DLA - Go through this."

...

And with that, I am summoned to make a great big case to the person I think is scum about why they are scum. See, I have a limited amount of time to dedicate to the game, and I'd rather spend it on developing reads and challenging different people than to explain to the person that I think is scum why I think they are scum. If they disagree with what I state, that's fine! Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me why I am wrong. But when they're being challenged as hard as Vedith, it is my opinion that I shouldn't have to be summoned to defend my stance like that.

him taking issue with it isn't malicious, it's the correct reaction. also, on his Wisdom read: "he's much more lazy as town" is a premise that I think is thoroughly wrong, but as far as actually forming reads goes, "he's much more lazy as town thus I think his reaction to my 'lynch' was a forced attempt to look town" isn't much of a logical leap at all and ignoring the timing of his vote or whether it was done in RVS or not, I'm interested in what you think about his actual reasoning, too.

I don't think that's what he's saying. I did misinterpret it completely at first which is why I thought he was contradicting himself, but after post 3 I understand it as that if Wisdom were town, he would see the L-1 and ignore it, rather than verifying it by counting votes and proceeding with the fake-lynch.

[DarkLightA]

Also @pie, I forgot to respond to the thing about vedith's questioning of his wisdom vote. In that case I was going down a line of questioning trying to find out if he actually believed in his vote. In that case what I thought of wisdom was highly irrelevant and counterproductive to the questioning.

[DarkLightA]

VOTE: Luna

[DarkLightA]

Why are you it reacting to my vote, Vedith?

[DarkLightA]

I see

[DarkLightA]

VOTE: thenewearth

[DarkLightA]

@Pie: I hear what you're saying. However, I disagree. I think Vedith has been acting scummy. I do hear your opinion though, we just disagree.

@DLA

UNVOTE:

It scares me that neither of you two are on vedith's wagon.

Does this still hold now that the two "conftowns" have given up their mason claim?

No

[DarkLightA]

^ Or yes. I don't know what the correct answer is. I think Vedith is scum.

[DarkLightA]

1. There are no guarantees about any alignments pre-flip
2. There is more than one scum

Both reasons not to tunnel D1

[DarkLightA]

1. I'm not voting Luna atm
2. I'm not trying to convince anyone but myself atm

[DarkLightA]

@TNE, with all due respect, if all you're gonna do is prod dodge I'd rather you replaced out.

[DarkLightA]

I am Sherlock-to-be.

[DarkLightA]

I am Sherlock-to-be.

So talk to me on Wisdom.

The problem is you haven't given me much to convince me. As far as the fakelynch I think it's an incredibly weak case if any. I think that you could just as easily argue that scum wouldn't want to get involved in something like that. You say he's lazy as town, and that's why the fakelynch doesn't make sense, but this blatantly contradicts all of the rest of the game—Wisdom has been very lazy for the entirety of the day; why isn't that a town tell?

[DarkLightA]

1: Why do you want my opinion of Wisdom? Is it to do with me or wisdom? I've got my scumhunting to do, I'd rather do it without your guidance. Especially when you, frankly, haven't provided anything of a case yourself.

2: Okay, so you're making a case here. Good. He was active before, and lazy after.

Ladies and gents, I present to you, active Wisdom before Vedith's interference.

Spoiler: Pre

VOTE: edos

so my goal this game is to figure out which of {zmuffin, Luna, Wisdom, DLA} drew town role PMs.

I didnt, i drew a good side role pm or something

with "here" you mean you want to be voted?

Happy with my vote

Because gut

Ding ding

Vedith can i hammer you

Then i can hammer you since im not scum

VOTE: vedith

k bai

And lazy Wisdom after:

Spoiler: Post

i think it will be an easy game for scum, yeah

vedith since when are you in any position to know what i do or not as scum?

maybe? I dont really have any reads

Sure, where can i get some?

I dont like how silent Luna is compared to usually

Not very confident but maybe

Why are you guys faking being masons

I doubt theyd out D1 for no reason

Nah i think theyre faking it for lulz

Luna might be scum though

Just what it feels like

Eh

and I have a gut town read on Luna because I don't think a scum Luna would tie herself to me through a mason claim.

I dont see why not

I mean if i was scum and you claimed masons with me for the lulz id play along

pie feels a little off compared to magical girl mafia but it might just be me

DLA I am not a mason with Luna btw just so you can scum hunt normally.

wow, what a shocking turn of events. did not see that coming

VOTE: luna

Quote was irrelevant

DLA I am not a mason with Luna btw just so you can scum hunt normally.

wow, what a shocking turn of events. did not see that coming

VOTE: luna

Oppornist in the making, eh?
Anyone reading Wisdom at town let me know why, thanks.

Like i said in the post after that quote got there by mistake. I had already said luna was feeling scummy

Really, if anything he's more active afterwards. This is, like before, a case of Vedith forming the scum tells from the read, and not vice versa.

[DarkLightA]

*In the above I'm using "active" as the opposite of lazy.

[DarkLightA]

Yes, that's why I posted the additional post. I'm defining active as the opposite of lazy though I realize I used the wrong word. Maybe productive is better. So replace all the instances of active with productive and that's what I mean. If you are truly arguing that he was more productive before post 90ish than after the you are truly delusional.

My read of wisdom is null to weak town

[DarkLightA]

I'm not saying he's productive. You're the one saying that. I think he's been consistently lazy.
Weak because of lack of information, town because he seems reasonable and nothing yells scum. Why are you pushing this so hard?

[DarkLightA]

Let's not lynch pie. Let's also not lynch wisdom and muffin. Maybe not bee.
I'm not objecting particularly to any other lynch.

[DarkLightA]

VOTE: Vedith

Let's do this one.

[DarkLightA]

VOTE: Vedith

Let's do this one.

Just to be clear that's L-1

[DarkLightA]

Good post Pie.

I also didn't want to say it while she was in the game, but i don't think TNEslot is scum. I went through her meta briefly and she's very active in the one scum game I found, less so in the town ones (and full on collapse in this one). This suggests to me that she's more interested in games she gets to play as scum, and she clearly wasn't interested in this one.

[DarkLightA]

Can we lynch vedith now or are we still all pretending he's not scum?

[DarkLightA]

Welcome GreyICE! You're town. Vote Vedith.

[DarkLightA]

Hes already voting him

In this case, keep voting Vedith!

[DarkLightA]

Tbh I do think going along with the masonry was a scummy thing for her to do. However Vedith is a lot more scummy to me.

[DarkLightA]

Except

im not apathetic

, im just purposefully not wanting to explain my reads. It requires having

time

for it.

So you are denying you are apathetic about mafia right now?

[DarkLightA]

I'll answer this one: Yes.

[DarkLightA]

I don't know if I can derail Vedith from my position, so instead I'll ask: @DLA, would you be open to a beeboy vote?

Beeboy > No lynch
Beeboy < A lot of other lynches

[DarkLightA]

I'm resistant to lynch pie simply because she's driving the game, but I may need some re-reading.

[DarkLightA]

@DLA,

i don't really think vedith is scum. i don't think his back-and-forth with you on p10 is as bad as you seem to think it was and it's a large part of why i think he's probably town. what do you think of 224?

Re 224, it's his best post this game. However, it keeps bothering me that he's so up in arms about people not voting Wisdom when he has laid out as close to no case as you could possibly get.

[DarkLightA]

That's L-1?

Edos is scum. Let's do it.

HAMMER TIME
VOTE: Edos

[DarkLightA]

People are learning.

Also I can't really state intent to hammer when I'm on your wagon.

[DarkLightA]

Pie tumbles into scumland.
Bee becomes a weak town.

[DarkLightA]

I feel like pie is chasing dead ends and knows it. Beeboy I think is town just because I don't see his play coming from town.

And before you ask, no, I can't be any more vague.

[DarkLightA]

Inb4 ninja. Sec

[DarkLightA]

Pie, why do you think lynch a soft claimed PR day 1 is a viable strategy? In almost all cases this is completely misguided. There will always be time in future days, in addition to added information. If he isn't scum, it is also likely that he'll be a night target, otherwise he'll have more to share in the future that'll make it easier to verify the claim than now.

Nothing good would come from a full role claim and I think you'd know this as well.

[DarkLightA]

I feel like pie is chasing dead ends and knows it.

what is this even about? do you think that I'm incapable of fabricating pushes elsewhere as scum or... ?

I think you're ignoring things that you wouldn't be ignoring as town

[DarkLightA]

VOTE: pieguyn

[DarkLightA]

VOTE: edos
Vote now more later

[DarkLightA]

Pie is saying wise things.

[DarkLightA]

UNVOTE:

Sorry I've not been active. Do we have a claim from wisdom? If not, please claim.

[DarkLightA]

Intent to hammer wisdom.

[DarkLightA]

Edos is your tomorrow claim literally 100% foolproof or is it 70%?

[DarkLightA]

Or is it 97%?

[DarkLightA]

VOTE: Wisdom

The push on edos is one of survival, not one of town's best interest.

And I absolutely think you should claim.

[DarkLightA]

Let's go

[DarkLightA]

Still no claim?

[DarkLightA]

Go for it Luna. I'm going to bed, see you tomorrow