Queen of Hearts [Game Over]

[zMuffinMan]

we're not talking about ongoing games

we're talking about an objective statement (that cupcake lurks as scum and is more active as town)

that statement has nothing to do with this game

and ANYONE is free to take me up on that challenge, whether it be now or after this game

because another thing i'll bet is that i've not only played more games with cupcake than anyone else here, i've also read more gmaes he's been in than anyone else here

[iraonavp]

This makes me think that zMuffinMan is scum-aligned too. Katsuki and zMuffinMan joke a lot about being scum-aligned together and it's probably because they're trying to sow the kind of WIFOM that zMuffinMan is now invoking...

yeeeeeeeah

because as one of the most powerful scum roles in any game, let alone this one, he would have been really concerned about "sowing WIFOM" over, oh i don't know, not actually dying

Yeah, well Katsuki always tries to sowing WIFOM...

The fact you are conscious of his role is suspicious, I didn't even consider that. Probably, you actually felt frustrated that your strongest role was being useless at some point earlier, you're projecting.

[curiouskarmadog]

with brilliant statements like this, if Iran is not scum, what do you think scum would do? sort of a self fulling prophecy you are setting up for yourself.

iraon's a claimed bodyguard

how the fuck are scum going to set him up?

it's only a self-fulfilling prophecy if he never protects a single player from a night kill for as long as he lives

i thought you were indicating that scum would never kill him.

[iraonavp]

we're not talking about ongoing games

we're talking about an objective statement (that cupcake lurks as scum and is more active as town)

that statement has nothing to do with this game

and ANYONE is free to take me up on that challenge, whether it be now or after this game

because another thing i'll bet is that i've not only played more games with cupcake than anyone else here, i've also read more gmaes he's been in than anyone else here

Yes, but it is relevant to your read on Katsuki. Vedith could be lying to try and accuse you, then you put him in this position...

[curiouskarmadog]

uhhh :/
ira why didnt you bodyguard seraphim

Why didn't anyone else?

I didn't think he would be killed.

I guarded you thinking that he would kill you and I would die instead.

work me through this line of thinking.

though now we are talking about it.

Iran...please answer this.

[zMuffinMan]

Yeah, well Katsuki always tries to sowing WIFOM...

yeah, cupcake spent the majority of the game talking to me and me alone because he his grand plan was to get lynched as a powerful role and sow wifom

if you knew half as much as you claim you do about what cupcake always does, you'd know he's never interacted with a scum buddy like he interacted with me here

[zMuffinMan]

i thought you were indicating that scum would never kill him.

scum aren't going to kill him, either, but no, i was referring to his role

[iraonavp]

with brilliant statements like this, if Iran is not scum, what do you think scum would do? sort of a self fulling prophecy you are setting up for yourself.

iraon's a claimed bodyguard

how the fuck are scum going to set him up?

it's only a self-fulfilling prophecy if he never protects a single player from a night kill for as long as he lives

If there's a roleblocker, it's possible...

[Vedith]

if you really, really want to take me up on this, let's bet real money on it (it's not technically anything to do with the game so it shouldn't count as outside influences, we're just discussing cupcake's meta)

for every town game you find with "higher than average" activity, i'll find two games where he lurked for at least the majority of the game

for every scum game you find where he lurked, i'll find two where he didn't

when you stop presenting me games, i win

when i stop being able to provide counter-games, you win

$100?

Styles of play / situations can change over time. I'm not interested in games 2 years ago etc.
I'm going by every game on the 1st page.

I can link each one if you like and we can go through it together?
Your argument here was that lynching Katsuki for lurking was bad, and that Katsuki posts even less as town, correct?

[zMuffinMan]

yeah, fakegod included a roleblocker in a game and they're going to expend it on you rather than use it for what it would have been designed for if it were added (because what mod adds a roleblocker in a game just to counter compulsive bodyguards? if there's a roleblocker, there's some fucking strong town power still left floating around)

[iraonavp]

uhhh :/
ira why didnt you bodyguard seraphim

Why didn't anyone else?

I didn't think he would be killed.

I guarded you thinking that he would kill you and I would die instead.

work me through this line of thinking.

though now we are talking about it.

Iran...please answer this.

So I have the highest chance of dying, figured Seraphim would shoot kraska77. I'm supposed to die or else get mislhnched by zMuffinMan...

[iraonavp]

Yeah, well Katsuki always tries to sowing WIFOM...

yeah, cupcake spent the majority of the game talking to me and me alone because he his grand plan was to get lynched as a powerful role and sow wifom

if you knew half as much as you claim you do about what cupcake always does, you'd know he's never interacted with a scum buddy like he interacted with me here

Obviously his plan was not to get lynched!

I think that's untrue or true only very literally.

[iraonavp]

yeah, fakegod included a roleblocker in a game and they're going to expend it on you rather than use it for what it would have been designed for if it were added (because what mod adds a roleblocker in a game just to counter compulsive bodyguards? if there's a roleblocker, there's some fucking strong town power still left floating around)

See, I just post one sentence and then zMuffinMan goes into full Sarcasm Mode!

What I said was perfectly reasonable, this is just trying to discredit me as much as possible...

[zMuffinMan]

Styles of play / situations can change over time. I'm not interested in games 2 years ago etc.

yeah not so drastically that someone goes from "not lurking" as scum to "lurking" as scum, but sure whatever, let's only include recent games

i assume PYP is one of the games you're counting as a town game he was active in because that's one of his more recent (if not his most recent) town games? because if so, you weren't paying attention to the game. his ISO looks long because the game was long, but ask anyone in the game whether he was active

[zMuffinMan]

See, I just post one sentence and then zMuffinMan goes into full Sarcasm Mode!

What I said was perfectly reasonable, this is just trying to discredit me as much as possible...

just making sure you have no outs when you inevitably never die

[iraonavp]

Sure, that makes perfect sense...

[SirCakez]

Irao can you pls talk about your non-zMuffin reads?

[Vedith]

yeah not so drastically that someone goes from "not lurking" as scum to "lurking" as scum, but sure whatever, let's only include recent games

i assume PYP is one of the games you're counting as a town game he was active in because that's one of his more recent (if not his most recent) town games? because if so, you weren't paying attention to the game. his ISO looks long because the game was long, but ask anyone in the game whether he was active

If you're so sure, then recent games will also be correct to what you are saying, right?
I actually did it by content and average posts. So what you are saying now that Katsuki posts more late game, Other players in those games were lurking, or...?
Because we can run through day by day on these games if you prefer? However, I'm sure you know that will waste both my time and your time to find out I was right.
But the choice is yours.

[Vedith]

Irao can you pls talk about your non-zMuffin reads?

UT Preferably.

[zMuffinMan]

average posts is dependent on a lot of things (game size, page size, general time period games were taking place), how deep he lived into each of these games, etc

e.g. if you're comparing his "average posts" by looking at total posts in pyp (a 144 page game) vs his total posts in a 40-50 page game, you're doing it wrong

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm supposed to die or else get mislhnched by zMuffinMan...

why is that?

[curiouskarmadog]

Irao can you pls talk about your non-zMuffin reads?

UT Preferably.

all this.

[iraonavp]

Town-aligned - DGB, curiouskarmadog, Vedith, FROOTLOOP, thenewearth, Ankamius
Null-aligned - kraska77, PeregrineV, SirCakez
Scum-aligned - zMuffinMan, Untrod Tripod

[iraonavp]

I'm supposed to die or else get mislhnched by zMuffinMan...

why is that?

What?

Because every time I don't die he gets more evidence to crush me, and if I die then I immediately win...

[Vedith]

average posts is dependent on a lot of things (game size, page size, general time period games were taking place), how deep he lived into each of these games, etc

e.g. if you're comparing his "average posts" by looking at total posts in pyp (a 144 page game) vs his total posts in a 40-50 page game, you're doing it wrong

So I was responding with the stats of each game, and it actually turns out that 2 games going by time of death to actual page count were pretty low activity. There are more to suggest that town activity is higher (I believe it was 4 town games with higher activity, 2 with lower activity, 1 hydra with very high activity as town, 2 hydra scum games with very low activity, 1 scum game very low activity.

So I decided to leave it at that, it suggests strongly that he does post more as town, but there's not enough to go by with the games chosen to push this on you.
I'll retract my original comment.

My point with all of this though is DGB isn't wrong for seeing it as a scum trait.