Newbie 1737 - Game Over

goodmorning · Post Post #100 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:26 pm

[i just started comparing the strengths of my original reads to the us women's gymnastics team??? SEND HELP QUICK]

grapes · Post Post #101 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:39 pm

VC 105

Oacenth (3):

goodmorning, kuror0, Dongempire

kuror0 (2):

Galagya, platinum_fleece

Galagya (1):

LmkGuy

Not Voting:

SkiddishRaddish, nmego12345, Oacenth

With 9 votes in play, 5 are needed to lynch.
There's (expired on 2016-09-12 08:55:02) until deadline.

Galagya · Post Post #102 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:42 pm

Spoiler:

SkiddishRaddish · Post Post #103 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:57 pm

In post 99, goodmorning wrote:
In post 90, SkiddishRaddish wrote:it
is
too early to get proper reads,
It's never too early to have accurate and correct reads, even if you're not 100% sure where they're coming from. I once caught Scum within 10 posts - and good Scum, too.

I meant because it's day 1 so we have little info to go on, but fair enough. You have more experience at this than I. I'll still look forward to that post where you explain your original reads though. (Not outing your second pick for at least another day or two makes you look more scummy in my opinion. It's not really helping anyone but yourself.)

In post 99, goodmorning wrote:
In post 77, nmego12345 wrote:Oacenth, what do you think of kuror0 and goodmorning alignment?
Nmego12345, I'm curious to hear why you're singling out a kuror0 and goodmorning as a mafia team.
THAT ESCALATED QUICKLY

Well,

isn't

is an odd question that came out of nowhere?
Oh wait, was Nmego12345 asking just about their alignment's in general, or them working as a mafia team? Because I had been reading it as the second until just now...

In post 99, goodmorning wrote: RE: 96/97: Which push are you referring to? If you mean the "I have reads" thing; that's genuine. I never pretend to have more reads (or "reads") than I actually do; it's not good play, for a lot of reasons.

I meant now that many (if not everyone) has shared their readings and we have more info on people, has your stance changed on anyone, and why?
-
Also, that metaphor would have been hilarious.

kuror0 · Post Post #104 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:38 am

huh yesterday got too tired from work, gonna catch up and post as soon as I can.

nmego12345 · Post Post #105 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:37 am

Spoiler: Catching up

-Fixed tags

nmego12345 · Post Post #106 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:37 am

Ouch tag errors, how embrassing

kuror0 · Post Post #107 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:42 am

I don't have that much time so i will leave some quick thoughts will try to explain them further later when i got some free time.

-Seems some people are ready to sheep gm reads and have been preparing for a while.

-Galagya posts are annoying to read for me due to her prose but more important her/his/it/combat helicopter reads feels like ready to change any time if needed due to stuff like "any sign of potential scummy behavior has ultimately made more sense to me as them just being as new as I am" on her top town read for example. (got some more but got no time to go further for now just letting it out there).

-noticed and interesting interaction between galagya and dongem but will need explicit quotes to support my thoughts so will do later as well.

Sorry guys i can provide so little for now but work is the priority. will try to keep up with the thread through the day and will make a detailed post tonight.

nmego12345 · Post Post #108 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:51 am

Spoiler: more catching up

If I had missed any questions pointed to me etc.. then please tell me them again. I think I'm gone now to review oacenth

kuror0, can you post your reads on everyone? no matter how weak the reads are?

nmego12345 · Post Post #109 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:23 am

Spoiler: oacenth

I'll be having oacenth in two parts (Note that I said parts not posts):
1. Checking all of oacenth posts
2. Checking arguments used aganist/with oacenth (Basically do a search for all posts with the name "oacenth" in them)

I'm having a headache at the moment so to simplify things for me I'll be covering oacenth first 5 posts now and the last 4 posts at a later post.

First post is just your plain old random vote
I'll simplify the second post in a good clear formatting to make things clear (for me and for everyone else)

In post 16, Oacenth wrote:@ Galagya:

I am more of the type of person that would rather wait and see what other people have to say before I say anything.

That is due to the fact

1. This is only my second Mafia game
2. In my first game I was killed off pretty soon

so I'm still getting used to playing mafia and the terms people use and such.

In regards to my personality:
I'm not that confident

So
1. I usually don't feel very comfortable pointing out things all the time
2.I'm not always sure on myself due to this.

But I'm trying to learn so please bare with me!

But I would like to hear what other people answer this question with!

While a scum would say that, I don't think it's fair to judge people based on their personality and how do they play mafia, It's not viable in mafia.

Basically that post seems not alignment indicative to me. i.e NAI i.e null

In post 54, Oacenth wrote:Hey sorry for not posting guys, I havent really got any ideas on any reads yet, so Im unsure on what to post.
So im just interested to know what other people have to say, or what else people have found strange? (minus what has already been stated)
Also, if anyone has any questions for me go ahead.

@goodmorning you say you have some reads already, can we have some details behind your reasoning?
But Im going to guess that you have either/both Platinum_Fleece and nmego12345 as a town read?
(My guess being because after they both posted a few times your town reads went from 2 to 3.5.

Aaaah this post is so hard to analyze It could be newb town or inactive scum
It basically says: "Hey, sorry for being inactive, I don't know what to do, I wanna know what do you think everyone, If anyone has any questions for me go ahead"
It could go either way I don't even know, my brain hurts.. I'll return later.

grapes · Post Post #110 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:56 am

Oacenth has requested replacement. Searching now.

goodmorning · Post Post #111 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:16 am

In post 103, SkiddishRaddish wrote:
In post 99, goodmorning wrote:
In post 90, SkiddishRaddish wrote:it
is
too early to get proper reads,
It's never too early to have accurate and correct reads, even if you're not 100% sure where they're coming from. I once caught Scum within 10 posts - and good Scum, too.
I meant because it's day 1 so we have little info to go on, but fair enough. You have more experience at this than I. I'll still look forward to that post where you explain your original reads though. (Not outing your second pick for at least another day or two makes you look more scummy in my opinion. It's not really helping anyone but yourself.)

Yeah, but it's helping me a lot. It means I can see if anyone else independently comes to the same conclusion (instead of just sheeping), and I can see if SR2 continues to behave scummily while not knowing they're under suspicion.

In post 99, goodmorning wrote:
In post 77, nmego12345 wrote:Oacenth, what do you think of kuror0 and goodmorning alignment?
Nmego12345, I'm curious to hear why you're singling out a kuror0 and goodmorning as a mafia team.
THAT ESCALATED QUICKLY
Well,
isn't
is an odd question that came out of nowhere?
Oh wait, was Nmego12345 asking just about their alignment's in general, or them working as a mafia team? Because I had been reading it as the second until just now...

I'm inclined to think the latter, though I wouldn't presume to answer for someone else.

In post 99, goodmorning wrote: RE: 96/97: Which push are you referring to? If you mean the "I have reads" thing; that's genuine. I never pretend to have more reads (or "reads") than I actually do; it's not good play, for a lot of reasons.
I meant now that many (if not everyone) has shared their readings and we have more info on people, has your stance changed on anyone, and why?
-
Also, that metaphor would have been hilarious.

Slightly. I'll get into it when I do reads. It's probably going to have to wait until I get home though. HW ran long.

@nmego 105: I ignored it because I think those guesses were all addressed in the post I was writing? I'm doing reads today anyway.

In post 107, kuror0 wrote:-Seems some people are ready to sheep gm reads and have been preparing for a while.

I'd noticed.

@nmego 108: It was called Shadows and Lights, a LT. I was a hydra. I'll go dig it up later.

That Raddish went from "what do you think of them" to "do you think they're scum together".

I'll actually probably explain that when I do reads, because life is weird.

kuror0 · Post Post #112 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:29 am

Well my plans got ruined. UNVOTE:

I still had my Random vote there because I noticed there was a wagon growing out of RVS and was hoping to catch opportunistic scum jumping there, now that she is replacing out no point leaving the bait there.

@nmego I will post a couple tonight which i feel comfortable but not all of them, waiting for a couple of things to happen to clarify my thoughts.

Galagya · Post Post #113 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:19 am

The first part of your bit on me is textbook

ad hominem

. Attacking the person rather than the argument is always a bad sign.

If I seem unsure, I am. It's simply me trying to be rational. I don't jump on people unless I feel fully committed. These are reads, they aren't solid yet, and they certainly aren't vote-level yet(like "confirmed", or whatever). Because of that, there is going to be ambiguity in my tone. I may well go back on my leanings - everyone changes their mind sometimes, especially in games like this where you don't know what's going on and can only make more informed guesses as time goes on & you have more to analyze - but I won't just change on a dime

without good reason

.

You can go ahead and stick with your opinion, if you so choose. But I don't know what else to tell you, so unless you have specific questions(which I completely welcome, btw), I'm not sure what I can do for you.

Speaking of, I do have one for you, if you don't mind!

In post 107, kuror0 wrote:"...stuff like "any sign of potential scummy behavior has ultimately made more sense to me as them just being as new as I am" on her top town read for example..."

Of all the quotes, why did you pick that one? I found it to not really represent the point you were trying to make. It's my top town read, yes. But I said ... well, what I said. It was my defending their scummy behavior in favor of a town read, and in no way would I be able to "change any time" from that. It says I

thought

I detected scum vibes, but it was ultimately just newbie vibes, I had decided. I don't see how that's more of a set up than anyone else saying ""... unless my wording is the problem, in which case, I do apologize! I can't help how I think or talk or whatever. I read/understand it just fine, so... I dunno. If you have any advice, feel free to impart it.
I mean, I explain things concise and clearly as is imo(really, if you think this is bad, you have no idea what's going on in my head lmfao) and they

still

get misunderstood - I feel like if I was any more blunt/vague or threw words around with less articulation/explanation I'd be even more confusing, and that's not helping us, for sure. Not sure what to do, here. I'm open to ideas. I'd like to improve my game, after all. ...though, I don't need insults - I'd need

constructive

feedback(a respectful attitude would be appreciated, too).

& behold, Oacenth person replaced out, likely coz they were hella stressed. I can see why, but I almost feel like a jerk now. Oh well, that's the game, I guess.

Moving on! I get the whole like... grilling GM thing, coz you just wanna know, right? I was curious, too, so yeah. But I feel like it's becoming a bit... I dunno, weird. I don't wanna say scummy, but definitely I find it suspect that some people are seriously putting so much focus into it. Yeah, it's info. Yeah, more people putting heads together is generally better. But they seem to be contributing still apart from that, so I say just leave it alone. There's likely a reason for their holding back, beyond just generating conversation/encouraging people to do some critical thinking. I understand it's important to reveal what's helpful, and try to keep things that seem a tiny bit helpful but may in time turn out to be significantly more helpful in your mind, so as not to screw up the potential they have by revealing it, until they come to fruition or failure... again, should they have the potential for that. Not every idea is like that, of course. But some. Anyway, point here is, more than a post or two pushing for the release of every bit of info seems excessive and beyond curiosity, to me.

& nmego, I think GM is just misunderstanding. I think the idea was it jumped to them being scum together, even though I viewed it as already being implied... but I guess different can see the same thing in two entirely different ways. That's why it's good to bounce ideas n all, right?

SPEAKING OF THAT. Maybe I'm paranoid but I feel like I'm going in circles or something. I dunno if this is a normal sensation when you play Mafia or if I'm picking up on something, here, & just haven't pinpointed it. Going back over posts now. It's difficult to articulate, but... something just... feels weird to me?? I'll keep looking, and hopefully I'll make more sense of it. Gonna do that before I continue here.

Galagya · Post Post #114 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:47 am

Oop new posts. My last one was posted when the last thing I saw was the modpost. My bad.

In post 111, goodmorning wrote:...I can see if SR2 continues to behave scummily while not knowing they're under suspicion.

Btw this second part is basically exactly what I predicted in my last post. So basically because of the potential for someone doing this, I argued it's suspicious for a person to keep pushing for reads anyway. Again, curiosity is one thing, but... yeah eventually it just looks like pushing. & not pushing for the sake of the town/finding scum. Pushing so a person can get more info and work with it. & not just knowing how GM reads them, but knowing everyone they read and why. It makes it so they can know more. After all, they already know alignment... so when a person seems to push more for deeper knowledge that may or may not be town

to the extent that they ignore all else

, yeah, that's going to make alarms go off for me.

In post 111, goodmorning wrote:That Raddish went from "what do you think of them" to "do you think they're scum together".

Again, last post addressed this already, but: I think this is simply a misunderstanding. Unless I'm missing something? I dunno. I took the initial post saying "alignment" as like, scumteam, not a separate alignment... again hope this makes sense, & sorry if I'm confusing lmao. I suck at communicating sometimes. FFFF... again dude people if I can change something to make the way I present posts better overall/easier to understand, please let me know how??

Looked it up again, and they said exactly, "Oacenth, what do you think of kuror0 and goodmorning alignment?" So yeah, the grammar does imply "/A/ kuror0/GM alignment" more than not in my mind. Matter of opinion, I think. But I guess you could argue otherwise... just, my vote is that their post wasn't really outstanding, & they just read it differently tbh.

Oh and forgot to mention in last post, too, but another reason for appearing "wishywashy" may well just be me trying to post about everyone even though, as you can tell by the abundance of results within the 50-something percent range, I'm clearly not very confident in many of them. This is because I was trying to post how I was looking at things

big picture

. I thought it'd be more helpful, but if not, then... I can refrain from it in the future.

Galagya · Post Post #115 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:57 am

Y'know screw it, Ill just say it to make sure it's clear, especially since the more I think about it the more it makes sense to me: nmego is reading more scummy to me now. Basically went from leaning town to back around null, for me. I realized they didn't only guess, they straight up were like, "tell us". They did this what, twice? In the end they even dropped their reasoning, like came up with no good arguments for it, and still kept pushing for it. The "I'm not guessing anymore" thing felt like an attempt to exert more pressure still, to me, for whatever reason.

Seriously though, I ask you, why must you know GM's reads? Other people haven't posted reads, so why are GM's especially concerning for you?

Lmk, I know you said you're busy, but seriously you are hardcore MIA. Why aren't you posting even a little bit of real stuff? I understand being busy, as I've been particularly busy irl as well lately(even if it's not as busy as you may be, I'll admit!). But even before the reason you gave, you were inactive. Constant inactivity overall. I dunno, man, I just wanna see more

actual content

from you. Without it, it just feels like you're hiding.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lmkguy
Until I get more info from you, gonna just put that right there. Light a fire under dat ass.

Galagya · Post Post #116 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:21 am

(Trying to make my posts shorter. Hopefully that will help; tell me if it does, guys? Also, sorry for posting so much, but I actually have some time now so yeah. Can finally REALLY dig n stuff.)

GM

, I just went back through and reread your "mystery reads" from the POV of you being scum, & I was pretty surprised.

Can you explain why you are choosing to withhold information while simultaneously giving sporadic updates that are nuanced enough that many people could fit into the space(scumread #2) you've created with ease...? It looks like a set up, basically.

kuror0 · Post Post #117 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:50 am

Ok first thing I'm wonderong is there a hydra in this game? I noticed sometimes Galagya addressed a player as 'they' ex. "Looked it up again, and they said exactly, "Oacenth, what do you think of kuror0 and goodmorning alignment?" which I think it is something coming from a player and not several players asking the same. So if there is a hydra around and I didn't know please enlighten me. If it is just poor article management then I encourage Galagya to try to be more precise.

@Galagya Now that I got into language I could use a better clarification as to whom you are directing your question/statement I'm getting confused if some stuff was directed at me as a direct reply to my post or to everyone or someone else you mentioned above etc. Might be just me as english is my second language and I learned it by myself so I'm not that good with form and it is making me confused on your posts. As for the content itself I will be questioning and clarifying a couple of things later so we can get out of the way the language barrier thing.

kuror0 · Post Post #118 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:51 am

Sorry I can't go in detail of some stuff now but lunch time is up, so I got to go back to work.

SkiddishRaddish · Post Post #119 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:20 am

In post 105, nmego12345 wrote: @SkiddishRaddish, well rereading I can see what's fishy in my response, yes I didn't gave you any answer to the question I just answered the question "Did you play mafia before". Yeah that was rather fishy. At that time I thought I gave a good answer and didn't notice that I wasn't answering at all

In regards to your question, why I'm scumreading gm and kuror0, my answer is i'm not,
I'm just asking oacneth what does she think of gm and what does she think of kuror0,
It's that simple

Ahh okay, my mistake, sorry for confusing everyone. Would you mind answering the question yourself then in your next analysis? Looking through your posts in iso made me realize you haven’t posted much about them in awhile, and you seemed to have soft scummy reads on them before.

In post 113, Galagya wrote: Moving on! I get the whole like... grilling GM thing, coz you just wanna know, right? I was curious, too, so yeah. But I feel like it's becoming a bit... I dunno, weird. I don't wanna say scummy, but definitely I find it suspect that some people are seriously putting so much focus into it. Yeah, it's info. Yeah, more people putting heads together is generally better. But they seem to be contributing still apart from that, so I say just leave it alone. There's likely a reason for their holding back, beyond just generating conversation/encouraging people to do some critical thinking. I understand it's important to reveal what's helpful, and try to keep things that seem a tiny bit helpful but may in time turn out to be significantly more helpful in your mind, so as not to screw up the potential they have by revealing it, until they come to fruition or failure... again, should they have the potential for that. Not every idea is like that, of course. But some. Anyway, point here is, more than a post or two pushing for the release of every bit of info seems excessive and beyond curiosity, to me.

In post 111, goodmorning wrote:
In post 103, SkiddishRaddish wrote:
In post 99, goodmorning wrote:
In post 90, SkiddishRaddish wrote:it
is
too early to get proper reads,
It's never too early to have accurate and correct reads, even if you're not 100% sure where they're coming from. I once caught Scum within 10 posts - and good Scum, too.
I meant because it's day 1 so we have little info to go on, but fair enough. You have more experience at this than I. I'll still look forward to that post where you explain your original reads though. (Not outing your second pick for at least another day or two makes you look more scummy in my opinion. It's not really helping anyone but yourself.)
Yeah, but it's helping me a lot. It means I can see if anyone else independently comes to the same conclusion (instead of just sheeping), and I can see if SR2 continues to behave scummily while not knowing they're under suspicion.

I’ve been focusing on Goodmorning but it actually applies to everyone. If you don’t have current reads, please update them.

I get her reasoning but on the other hand if Goodmorning is scum and we all agree that’s better to wait off on her reads then we’ve given her leeway to sit back a little bit and let time tick down in the game without needing to fully contribute or explain reads, reads that she stated she’s had since like page 2. That doesn’t sit well with me.

In post 113, Galagya wrote:
You can go ahead and stick with your opinion, if you so choose. But I don't know what else to tell you, so unless you have specific questions(which I completely welcome, btw), I'm not sure what I can do for you.

Speaking of, I do have one for you, if you don't mind!

In post 107, kuror0 wrote:"...stuff like "any sign of potential scummy behavior has ultimately made more sense to me as them just being as new as I am" on her top town read for example..."
Of all the quotes, why did you pick that one? I found it to not really represent the point you were trying to make. It's my top town read, yes. But I said ... well, what I said. It was my defending their scummy behavior in favor of a town read, and in no way would I be able to "change any time" from that. It says I
thought
I detected scum vibes, but it was ultimately just newbie vibes, I had decided. I don't see how that's more of a set up than anyone else saying ""... unless my wording is the problem, in which case, I do apologize! I can't help how I think or talk or whatever. I read/understand it just fine, so... I dunno. If you have any advice, feel free to impart it.
I mean, I explain things concise and clearly as is imo(really, if you think this is bad, you have no idea what's going on in my head lmfao) and they
still
get misunderstood - I feel like if I was any more blunt/vague or threw words around with less articulation/explanation I'd be even more confusing, and that's not helping us, for sure. Not sure what to do, here. I'm open to ideas. I'd like to improve my game, after all. ...though, I don't need insults - I'd need
constructive
feedback(a respectful attitude would be appreciated, too).

& behold, Oacenth person replaced out, likely coz they were hella stressed. I can see why, but I almost feel like a jerk now. Oh well, that's the game, I guess.

It took me way too long to realize who you were talking to (make sure to write the name next time). Actually, I also asked you (see post 98) to explain more specific examples of when you found nmego’s behavior scummy (but are chalked up to newbie-ness) so please answer the question.

Oacenth if you're still reading, I hope we didn't bully you out of playing in the forums entirely!

@ Kuror0, I think Goodmorning is just referring to a role she had in the past game she played. If I recall correctly, newbie games can only have the matrix6 setup that's mentioned at the start (and http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Hydra the mafia wiki states that they are not allowed in newbie or normal games). Galagya is just referring to people with singular they.

In post 111, goodmorning wrote: @nmego 108: It was called Shadows and Lights, a LT. I was a hydra. I'll go dig it up later.

Galagya · Post Post #120 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:28 am

In post 117, kuror0 wrote:Ok first thing I'm wonderong is there a hydra in this game? I noticed sometimes Galagya addressed a player as 'they' ex. "Looked it up again, and they said exactly, "Oacenth, what do you think of kuror0 and goodmorning alignment?" which I think it is something coming from a player and not several players asking the same. So if there is a hydra around and I didn't know please enlighten me. If it is just poor article management then I encourage Galagya to try to be more precise.

@Galagya Now that I got into language I could use a better clarification as to whom you are directing your question/statement I'm getting confused if some stuff was directed at me as a direct reply to my post or to everyone or someone else you mentioned above etc. Might be just me as english is my second language and I learned it by myself so I'm not that good with form and it is making me confused on your posts. As for the content itself I will be questioning and clarifying a couple of things later so we can get out of the way the language barrier thing.

Oh no no no! It is neither improper use of the word "they", nor does it mean I'm addressing multiple people. The word "they" can mean singular, like one person... the same as him/her etc., basically a genderless version of those. It can be used in place of the gendered forms. For me, it's easier to call everyone "they" than him/her/he/she. It's just how I talk. Plus, that way I can focus on the ideas without worrying about which pronouns to use - "they" can be used for anyone, so it's a sort of default. For instance, when describing a person you don't know the gender of, you would use "they"(although you CAN use "he or she" if you want to, too).

Here...

Spoiler:

I was using it as #2, not #1. I hope that helps!

& as far as I know, no hydras or anything! I didn't mean to imply such a thing. My bad!

If I say "they", go by context n see who I was talking about before by name. If you're still confused, simply as and I'll clarify.

116 was directed at

GM

.
115 was directed at

nmego

, up until I mentioned

Lmk

, at which point the rest was @

Lmk

.

As for the specific quote you got from me, I was referring to these posts(& the people I was referring to, of course, are the ones who said it)...

In post 90, SkiddishRaddish wrote:
In post 77, nmego12345 wrote:Oacenth, what do you think of kuror0 and goodmorning alignment?
Nmego12345, I'm curious to hear why you're singling out a kuror0 and goodmorning as a mafia team.

Hopefully things are more clear now. Unfortunately, I can definitely see how my posts would be confusing to you, now. I'm sorry! I'll try my best to say things in a more simple way, while keeping my ideas purely "me". Let me know if you have trouble understanding me, okay? That way I can go ahead & explain asap. In the mean time, I will do my best to make sure that doesn't happen.

Now that I know English is your second language(seriously, I had no idea - you could take that as a compliment), your posts suddenly make a lot more sense to me, too. I think the problem is my grammar, mostly. I speak in a strange way. That's all me - not your fault! You'd have to be a native speaker to understand me easily, I think. I was being close-minded by assuming everyone here had an excellent understanding of English grammar. Again - my bad.

So yeah, now that we've got that cleared up, let's keep going.

Donempire · Post Post #121 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:39 am

In post 89, Oacenth wrote:
Spoiler:
wow, is there really a need to be so aggressive..
I got told to point out anything, even if it was 0.00001% relevant/important, so thats what I did. If you disagree with my opinion then fair enough, after all it is only just my opinion.
If you want to vote for me then go ahead, but I can tell you now, im VT.
Also how am I supposed to know that two posts if a very long time for you?
And as I had said, they were just what I had to say at the time, we're still in day one, so yes my reads are going to be 'wishy washy'.

I'm not angry at you, sorry if it seems that way. Im angry that my wall got deleted, is all.
But you are scum still .)
And you prove my point that you were doing this as you were asked by other people, and not genuinely. Either you cant think for yourself, or you have mafius disorder.

In post 90, SkiddishRaddish wrote:
Spoiler:
I don’t want to keep bringing up associatives before the flip, but I’m not happy with how Oacenth and Dongempire are acting towards each other right now. I postulated that they may be the mafia team in post 67 and look what’s happened: The first read Oacenth gave in her current readings (post 74) was on Dongempire which null but more anti-town than not. And Dongempire's last few posts have been getting aggressive towards her and then votes her. It reads like distancing.

It might seem like that to you, but i assure you, even if i was mafia and partners with her, even im not stupid enough to get my partner lynched day 1 for some credibility, because if you look at my mafia games, i never seem to be able to survive after my mafia partner dies.
You'd think pushing a lynch like that is just deathwish in my part.

In post 94, Galagya wrote:
Spoiler:
In post 88, Donempire wrote: So let me ask a question. Whats the point of this post?
Or let me ask a question like this: How does it help the town? Except for a bit of oacenth part, all i see here is fluff and more fluff.
Do keep in mind that walls=/good content, so please, post when you need to post, not when you want to.

Spoiler: galagya
There were two people addressed. You're okay with what I said to Oacenth, cool. The other was GM. They asked a question, and I answered. In response, we actually got the name of another one of their reads - me. I'd say that's content, not "fluff". But to each their own! I'll try to be more direct, but I do tend to speak very concisely though repetitively. It's how I am, and if it's something that frustrates you, I apologize. Hopefully I'll get better at it, but in the mean time, I ask that you overlook it and. Unless I'm clearly actively detracting/derailing the conversation, I don't see the point of focusing on whether or not my words are too "fluffy" for you(especially when you've used that word for the both of us when our post styles are literally the opposite of one another imho, and additionally, my content hasn't been particularly less useful than that of others
on average
I think... yet you have said this of me twice now). Because of your zeroing in on me like that, I do get scummy vibes from you. I don't mean to be all OMGUS, but rather, the lack of logic behind your accusations is what makes it suspect to me. Because of that, it feels like you're trying to make me look shaky or less reliable in particular, when really I'm no less reliable than anyone else... or at least, wasn't at that point.(Now things are moving along, and I think that saying a blanket "average" vibe/null read is no longer realistic.)

As for "post when you need to, not when you want to", I'm not just going to "sit back and let others scumhunt" as you said when someone did just what you're telling me to do right now. I think that advice is too vague and the definitions therein too arbitrary to really help anything.

Oh yeah, right. phpBB.
Theres always a point of focusing on someones post if thats going to lead to something, so you can never say that it's pointless as i've made my case, and i called myself fluffy because all i did was literally nothing, and what you did was filler content.
I'm unsure why you are suspicious because i had zeroed in on you, arent you supposed to do that when you are analyzing something?
And no, im not trying to make you less reliable or shaky or etc. because if you've got good points and arguments, then people will listen to you (if they can find that part in your hellish walls), all i said was you are playing fluffy and not bringing any good points, which you havent done in that post (except for the oacenth part as i said) and "finding out gm was reading me" isnt really a milestone nor anything to boast about.
And it wouldnt be OMGUS, because im not accusing you of any kind, im just saying you are playing fluffy and making filler posts.

In post 96, Galagya wrote:
Spoiler:
welcome to TOWN

Dong

55%

(yeah... hope I can just call you that & it not be considered insulting somehow(you did pick the name, after all), tell me if that's not the case though haha)
While I disagree with their methods(or rather, the extremity of them), they seem to really be stirring the pot in a progressive way. I think they're town, for now, though I can see this flipping pretty harsh depending on how legit they ultimately show themselves to be... I mean yeah that's obvious, but I feel it'll be more apparent just because of how they play/their personality.

I just wanted to ask why are you townreading me after you've said you got some scummy vibes from me two posts ago. It seemed strange to me.

In post 110, grapes wrote:
Oacenth has requested replacement. Searching now.

What are the odds? xd

I'll examine galagya's other posts (i have a phobia of wall of texts, sorry gala) and post my reads list in my next post. See you tomorrow lads.

goodmorning · Post Post #122 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:42 am

In post 114, Galagya wrote:
In post 111, goodmorning wrote:...I can see if SR2 continues to behave scummily while not knowing they're under suspicion.
Btw this second part is basically exactly what I predicted in my last post. So basically because of the potential for someone doing this, I argued it's suspicious for a person to keep pushing for reads anyway. Again, curiosity is one thing, but... yeah eventually it just looks like pushing. & not pushing for the sake of the town/finding scum. Pushing so a person can get more info and work with it. & not just knowing how GM reads them, but knowing everyone they read and why. It makes it so they can know more. After all, they already know alignment... so when a person seems to push more for deeper knowledge that may or may not be town
to the extent that they ignore all else
, yeah, that's going to make alarms go off for me.

You should go look at the Newbie game I referenced earlier; you might find it of interest.

But idk why you're going after nmego for this when Raddish and platinum are both much more guilty of it. That's weird.

In post 111, goodmorning wrote:That Raddish went from "what do you think of them" to "do you think they're scum together".
Again, last post addressed this already, but: I think this is simply a misunderstanding. Unless I'm missing something? I dunno. I took the initial post saying "alignment" as like, scumteam, not a separate alignment... again hope this makes sense, & sorry if I'm confusing lmao. I suck at communicating sometimes. FFFF... again dude people if I can change something to make the way I present posts better overall/easier to understand, please let me know how??

Looked it up again, and they said exactly, "Oacenth, what do you think of kuror0 and goodmorning alignment?" So yeah, the grammar does imply "/A/ kuror0/GM alignment" more than not in my mind. Matter of opinion, I think. But I guess you could argue otherwise... just, my vote is that their post wasn't really outstanding, & they just read it differently tbh.

I think if you add an 's after "goodmorning" and an s after "alignment," you'll get closest to the spirit of the post.

In post 116, Galagya wrote:
GM
, I just went back through and reread your "mystery reads" from the POV of you being scum, & I was pretty surprised.

Can you explain why you are choosing to withhold information while simultaneously giving sporadic updates that are nuanced enough that many people could fit into the space(scumread #2) you've created with ease...? It looks like a set up, basically.

People have accused me of this before. It's hard to explain properly, but the way I play as Scum includes scumhunting the exact same way I do as Town; I scumread the same people for the same reasons as either alignment, basically. Like I said in 99, I don't make up reads.

Also there're really only 2 people who could possibly fit into that slot given what I've said about everyone so far, and anyone who knows me well would know why the one it isn't was unlikely to be it. If you remind me, I can come back and analyze this when I get home as part of the reads blockbuster thing.

In post 117, kuror0 wrote:Ok first thing I'm wonderong is there a hydra in this game? I noticed sometimes Galagya addressed a player as 'they' ex. "Looked it up again, and they said exactly, "Oacenth, what do you think of kuror0 and goodmorning alignment?" which I think it is something coming from a player and not several players asking the same. So if there is a hydra around and I didn't know please enlighten me. If it is just poor article management then I encourage Galagya to try to be more precise.

Hydrae aren't allowed in Newbies. "They" is commonly used as a substitute for "it" (i.e., when the player has no set pronoun). This is for connotation reasons.

@Raddish: You could try repeating yourself again; maybe I'll suddenly change my opinion after the fifth time!

p-edit: pretty good, actually; Newbies get replaced A LOT.

kuror0 · Post Post #123 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:16 am

First of all thank you for clearing the whole "they" thing. I didn't know it was being used as the genderless article(or however it is called) will try to get used to read and write it.

Now for this post I will explain further the Galagyas read post and why I find it suspicious. The red letters at the bottom of each paragraph is how I perceived and my thoughts about it.

Spoiler: Galagya's reads post

In post 96, Galagya wrote:Assuming 50% means null, and that any more than that is going toward 100% of the corresponding alignment...

welcome to TOWN

nmego

70%

They are clearly contributing, and any sign of potential scummy behavior has ultimately made more sense to me as them just being as new as I am, if that makes sense. I like the quality and consistency of their posts. The overall tone sounds like someone who doesn't know wtf is going on & is trying to figure it out as best they can, ie, town.
-
Already quoted this because it was the first one but here is the my complete thoughts: "He has done scummy things but for now I will believe it is because he is a newbie", which translates to me as you will easily swap if needed.

kuror0

60%

At first I was iffy, but they have proven to be pretty town imho. Good content, even if they don't post a lot unless directly addressed. I find they ask a lot of the "right" questions. At the same time, I feel weirdly apprehensive about them...?? Like any feelings I get are strong, but the good overpower the bad. So for now, pretty much town.
-
"I get strong scum and town feelings" Which again opens the door to: "oh I had strong scum feeling coming from him for a while" if you see it necessary

Dong

55%

(yeah... hope I can just call you that & it not be considered insulting somehow(you did pick the name, after all), tell me if that's not the case though haha)
While I disagree with their methods(or rather, the extremity of them), they seem to really be stirring the pot in a progressive way. I think they're town, for now, though I can see this flipping pretty harsh depending on how legit they ultimately show themselves to be... I mean yeah that's obvious, but I feel it'll be more apparent just because of how they play/their personality.
-
Basically waiting for their flip to take a strong stance but calling them town. Which actually conflicts with a previous lecture I had on you 2 which I will go later. (small resume so you can try to get my thought process: I thought you had dongem as scum and they had you as scum as well due to some small trade you guys had, and I was figuring 2 newbies scum wouldn't be able to buss hard, so you calling him town makes me re asses the whole situation. (I thought it was a TvS situation due to some misreps and stuff) Will have to re read to look on it further at night with more time)

GM

55%

Difficult to read, this one! I am trying to make sure I don't make the mistake of townreading coz IC. It's difficult to tell when someone is trying to be nice for real vs fakenice, and even harder when they
have
to be nice to a certain degree, but you aren't sure where the line is drawn. That being said, I still think town, coz of their direct answers that show no hesitation, their. It's not higher because while I think they were trying to make people think/help get things going, I'm not sure if he way they did it was the best way... still, it got the job done. Hm.

Skiddish

51%

I'm leaning town but barely. I could see their posts as being scummy overall AND townish overall. The way they post but remain apprehensive strikes me as someone trying to figure it out. Someone... uninformed. Moreso town because of this.
-
"I could see their posts as being scummy overall AND townish overall" the % and the quote. Do i need to explain more. Applies the same principle on my read.

platinum

55%

Clear scumhunting, though sometimes I feel you may be tunneling a bit. Still, overall, you're looking more town than not to me, even if it's not significantly.
-
If it is clear scumhunting and the only backdraw is a lil tunneling, then why it isn't higher on your list? It feels out of place.

Lmt

51%

I'm pretty much basing this on their lack of contributions/quality therein. They're similar in my mind to Skiddish and kuror0. Give me more, people. When you don't, it looks bad. HELP ME TO HELP YOU! & I'll try to do the same. I honestly put you as 51% under the scum list below, but just moved you coz of your most recent post. Again, I ask you give me more to go on.

Galagya

100%

Coz... do I have to explain?

you look like SCUM

Oacenth

55%

It's all been explained already. I don't think your recent contributions outweigh the scumminess shown overall... at least, not yet. But we'll see. I'm worried coz I have to wonder if you're really just new, a person with a more shy personality, who isn't really sure what they're doing yet & didn't realize they'd compromise town as a whole with their actions. Still, gonna assume even if you're meek you're intelligent, and at least now must know the ultimate results of going about things that way. I guess time will really tell with this one. Still - not enough to vote, but enough to scumread.

So my comments there and the fact that you manage to call 8 out of 9 players town yet leaving the door open to easily swap to scum read is what really annoys me. Your only scum suspect was the only one who had a wagon going atm which also seems opportunistic to me.

Hopefully I was clear enough so everyone could understand.

goodmorning · Post Post #124 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:46 am

So I'll go down the list (and comparing to the USWGT is actually going to be helpful from a metaphorical standpoint so clearly I'm a 2am genius):

nmego:

In post 71, goodmorning wrote:RE: nmego: It's a tiny bit the effort, at least early in the game when there's nothing else to go on, but mostly it's their perspective on the game that's given me the townread. Also the paranoia. There's some decent-looking paranoia there.

nmego is my Simone Biles read: Biles was the obvious favourite in the Olympics, and this read is the obvious favourite to be proved right. Since I said the above, nmego continues to post from the same towny point of view and also ask some solid questions on occasion.

2SR:
This is the Aly Raisman read - as in, the obvious second favorite to be proved right. There's a pretty consistent pattern of worrying behaviour from my 2SR, which I've briefly touched on in my posts and will try to remember to cite when the weekend rolls around.

Oacenth:

In post 69, goodmorning wrote:
In post 66, platinum_fleece wrote:@goodmorning: Correct me if I'm wrong, but you scumreaded her because you didn't like the fact that she'd rather wait to see what people say instead of asking questions and generating discussions herself. Am I on the right track?
Sort of. My initial scumread was based on her coming in and saying exactly what the people above her said. Currently I also don't like the small amount of meaningful content. That could all just be Newbie uncertainty, though.

Oacenth is Gabby Douglas: initially strong, but declining with time. I'm not really even scumreading Oacenth('s slot) anymore. Once she actually started posting, the contributions she managed looked more consistent with Town than Scum.

platinum:
This read is Laurie Hernandez: pretty underrated and will quite possibly be overlooked at some point in the game.
Here's why I townread him:
-A lot of willingness to interact with others
-Managed to post his own reads [partially thanks to nmego but still] with reasonable justifications
-Willingness to be noticed/make pushes early game
-Some tone stuff.

Galagya:
Madison Kocian. Strong but really one-dimensional.
I townread Galagya for a lot of pretty Town-motivated-looking posts.
One-dimensional because they might only look Town-motivated, and the signal:noise ratio is a little suspect.

Bonus: Lmk:
I felt weird about him early on, and his absence didn't help that, but his reasons were good and his readslist screams TOWN TOWN TOWN to me so.