Newbie 1737 - Game Over

[grapes]

VC 107

Map Wolf (1):

Dongempire

Galagya (1):

LmkGuy

LmkGuy (1):

Galagya

SkiddishRaddish (1):

goodmorning

Not Voting:

SkiddishRaddish, platinum_fleece, nmego12345, Map Wolf, kuror0

With 9 votes in play, 5 are needed to lynch.
There's (expired on 2016-09-12 08:55:02) until deadline.

[grapes]

Prodded nmego12345, Map Wolf and Dongempire.

@Grapes, what happens to the game if this continues? Do we just a declare a draw for everyone?

I'm giving prodded players an extra 24 hours (48 hours total) to respond to their prods before I do any replacing in light of Labor Day weekend. In the future, please let me know if you're going V/LA (Vacation/Limited Access) by PM or letting me know by bolding it in the thread.

[goodmorning]

@Lmk: Shortly.

My reaction? ...What reaction? How I didn’t really comment on your vote when I knew it was coming? How I was looking for your old game because I want to know how to play better? How I keep asking for people to answer my questions when they aren’t? My other observations in the post?

The lack thereof. You knew it was coming? I don't recommend that game as a showcase for good play; I'll see if I can't come up with some better ones. If they're not here, they're not here; it is a (holiday) weekend after all. I might go observation singular on that.

Ohh, how do you check activity overview?

It's in the bottom right corner, just below the page numbers.

[Galagya]

Skiddish:

I generally agree with what you've said, but can you give some specific examples of the bolded? What has been nmego's spots of scummy behavior? Where have I read as scummy and where have I read as town?

For you, I was referring to 27. You claimed nmego's answer was a "nonanswer", but in my opinion, gave a nonanswer yourself in the very same post. I found that a bit scummy, sort of like a slip, haha. Basically everything else from you up to that point was null to town. Hence, balancing one another out.
As for

nmego

, while everyone seemed to be accepting of his content(& I get why, I was at first as well), after going over everything again, I found his stuff to be... hm. Basically like, too thought out and simple, and at times downright redundant, which made me get suspicious and the more I looked the more fabricated I felt it all was. But ultimately, I decided I was tunneling, and tried to be reasonable. So, hence, mostly town. At this point, however, they are dropping a bit due to their strange fluctuation in activity. I've been focusing on when they post a lot vs don't & was uneasy seeing the results.

@Gala:
What differentiates these two in your reads? Why is LMK Townier than Oacenth? Both their posts similarly have little content (at the time of your reads I believe). Is it because Oacenth posted but feels like she's sheeping, while LMK just outright hasn't posted much at that time?

Pretty much.

(please be town, Gala).

I'm liking

platinum

for town more & more tbh.

Also, I really want to see more content from you,

Wolf

. In fact, I'd love you to vote. You gave scumreads, but between GM & myself, which would you pick? Throw that vote down, yeah? Either or, it'd be much appreciated.

[Galagya]

Oh & UNVOTE: , coz, well, should be obvious.

[Donempire]

Spoiler:

It's been over 24 hours since anyone posted in this game. This is NOT CONDUCIVE to my SR2 reaction thing.

Vote: Raddish

This is it. Discuss.

Or don't, because if you guys aren't going to care about the game then I guess I'm not either.

Well, to say the least, all of his posts seem like someone playing safe, but the matter of fact is i'm unsure. In my reads list that i scrapped, he was the only one that i couldnt read. Probably my fault, but i just cant put my finger on anything she says. Sure, she has been scumhunting as much as the next guy, but all of her posts just seem to be playing safe and trying to get past unnoticed.
Thats just my thoughts though, i still dont have any ideas on him. At least, didnt.

Spoiler:

My reaction? ...What reaction? How I didn’t really comment on your vote when I knew it was coming? How I was looking for your old game because I want to know how to play better? How I keep asking for people to answer my questions when they aren’t? My other observations in the post?

Goodmorning is either mafia or else reading me dead wrong (I’ll admit that might be partially my fault as a newbie tho).


Seriously though, did everyone else suddenly die?
@Grapes, what happens to the game if this continues? Do we just a declare a draw for everyone?

Ohh, how do you check activity overview?

Why does reading you as scum while you are (as you say) town makes the one reading you mafia? Because looking through your iso, you dont make a statement reading goodmorning as mafia, so why did her just reading you as scum flipped you off? The only thing she said about you was her next post, which just said your response was "interesting", i would wait for an answer before making such a claim (and she answered but you havent posted since, so.) And so, i want an explanation on why you suddenly thought she was scum.

Other than that, galagya's more recent post seem more like scumhunting and genuine. I'm liking where this is going.
I'm mostly waiting on wolf's post, so i can analyze it and ask him a few questions, because his predecessor didnt leave a good mark on that spot.

[goodmorning]

I've

technically

played before but only once, as a kid irl, and I had no idea what was going on. So I'm basically a total newbie. I've read up on it, but honestly, it seems like particularly the online version is something that you can get better at but not without experience, & in ways not even consciously.

Also, I really want to see more content from you,

Wolf

. In fact, I'd love you to vote. You gave scumreads, but between GM & myself, which would you pick? Throw that vote down, yeah? Either or, it'd be much appreciated.

The combination of these two posts is a great example of why I'm townreading Galagya despite the paranoia.

Oh & UNVOTE: , coz, well, should be obvious.

And this post combined with the previous is a great example of why I understand the paranoia on Galagya.

@DE: Raddish

is

playing it on the safe side, and that's some of what I scumread there, but the biggest thing is her approach to the game. I see that specifically in her approach to me, because I'm a little bit self-centred, but it's no less valid for that:
Raddish has consistently tried to undermine me without coming straight out and attacking me. That almost always says Scum.

[kuror0]

I'm back. I catched up but this is just a shameless prod dodge. Tonight I will have the time to post properly .

[Map Wolf]

So yeah i agree with you guys about activity. I wanted to post something yesterday, but i have been having cold, which made me really tired.

[SkiddishRaddish]

I was working on a post but it's getting long and I got homework due at midnight so I'll post it some hours from now.

[SkiddishRaddish]

Thanks Grapes, and thanks about the activity overview question.

I don't recommend that game as a showcase for good play; I'll see if I can't come up with some better ones. If they're not here, they're not here; it is a (holiday) weekend after all. I might go observation singular on that.

I would like an example game or two thanks, it doesn’t have to have you it if that makes it easier.
I wasn’t just talking about this weekend, but in general. (Galagya didn’t answer my question from post 98 until post 153, my call in post 119 to everyone to list their reads, etc.) Hope everyone's having a good holiday tho.

Goodmorning is either mafia or else reading me dead wrong (I’ll admit that might be partially my fault as a newbie tho).

I see now I should have explained my reasoning in the same post for why I made such a bold statement in the same post. (I almost did, but felt it was too heated and deleted that bit.) Okay, here we go. Sorry to the text wall haters.

Spoiler:

The whole business of guessing Goodmorning’s original reads gets me too confused trying to understand it all (if only because it’s so many posts and response from everyone to keep track of), but isn’t it clear when reading her iso who she was eventually referring to? (She admits herself that by process of elimination it could be guessed.)

@Galagya: You and Raddish were two of my initial reads, yes.

I'm very likely to switch votes to original scumread #2 on or before Saturday, both because Oacenth is looking less scummy and because my original 2nd is looking more scummy.
--
p-edit: I'm not outing my 2nd original sr until I vote them.

(Note: In the same post that Goodmorning responds to my read of her, basically saying “Town, but weaker reasoning on her reads than I hoped for when stating she has reads and a multiplicity of them”, she states that she’s going to switch votes to her original scumread. If she is mafia, then she might have been trying to push discredibility off of her.)

Yeah, but it's helping me a lot. It means I can see if anyone else independently comes to the same conclusion (instead of just sheeping), and I can see if SR2 continues to behave scummily while not knowing they're under suspicion.
...
That Raddish went from "what do you think of them" to "do you think they're scum together".

(The bottom one felt like a random aside, but wanted people to take note of it. This is when I started suspecting that I was most likely the second scum read.)

But idk why you're going after nmego for this when Raddish and platinum are both much more guilty of it. That's weird.
...
Also there're really only 2 people who could possibly fit into that slot given what I've said about everyone so far, and anyone who knows me well would know why the one it isn't was unlikely to be it. If you remind me, I can come back and analyze this when I get home as part of the reads blockbuster thing.
...
@Raddish: You could try repeating yourself again; maybe I'll suddenly change my opinion after the fifth time!

2SR:
This is the Aly Raisman read - as in, the obvious second favorite to be proved right. There's a pretty consistent pattern of worrying behaviour from my 2SR, which I've briefly touched on in my posts and will try to remember to cite when the weekend rolls around.

So Goodmorning either reads myself, Kuror0, or Dongempire as scum then. I'd be shocked if it wasn't me.

(I mention before her vote in 144 how that I'm probably the second scum read.)

The lack thereof. You knew it was coming?

Yes.

@Dong

Spoiler:

Why does reading you as scum while you are (as you say) town makes the one reading you mafia? Because looking through your iso, you dont make a statement reading goodmorning as mafia, so why did her just reading you as scum flipped you off? The only thing she said about you was her next post, which just said your response was "interesting", i would wait for an answer before making such a claim (and she answered but you havent posted since, so.) And so, i want an explanation on why you suddenly thought she was scum.

Does that above quote wall answer it for you? While my reads are now a little different from when I first posted them, I don’t think it’s warranted to make a second list when it's somewhat accurate and there’s still people who haven’t made a complete reads or even just general observations about what they’re feeling from people.

I stated more recently that I find Goodmorning as either scum or reading me wrong because knowing myself to be townie (whether or not that one sees that as true) I felt increased attention on myself from her since post 99, particularly in the back and forth between me asking for her reads and her denying them, and I think another reason I'm totally forgetting at the moment.

On the other hand, she’s opening herself up to later scrutiny by voting for me like this now, she does exhibit some pro-town behavior, I could be hyperfocusing in on someone who's actually participating in the dialogue of the game when the mafia could be on the sidelines watching us townies forget them and accuse each other and, she’s probably just frustrated with dealing with someone who she reads as obviously scum.

Either way, I can’t really find a grip on how to read Goodmorning right now, but that’s my guess. Either mafia who's trying to devest attention onto an easier target who may have caught on, or townie who’s just really off in reading me due to differences in play experience. I know that’s probably smells of scummy reasoning (because I can backtrack in either direction on that statement), but it’s the truth. Regardless, I want don't have a solid case on most people and I'd prefer more than not the IC to be around past day 1 (mafia or townie) which is why I've stated but not yet voted.

I’m playing it safe?... Is that how I'm coming off to people? That’s… This game is full of surprises to me. I need time to understand this.

@Galagya

Spoiler:

Skiddish:

I generally agree with what you've said, but can you give some specific examples of the bolded? What has been nmego's spots of scummy behavior? Where have I read as scummy and where have I read as town?

For you, I was referring to 27. You claimed nmego's answer was a "nonanswer", but in my opinion, gave a nonanswer yourself in the very same post. I found that a bit scummy, sort of like a slip, haha. Basically everything else from you up to that point was null to town. Hence, balancing one another out.
As for

nmego

, while everyone seemed to be accepting of his content(& I get why, I was at first as well), after going over everything again, I found his stuff to be... hm. Basically like, too thought out and simple, and at times downright redundant, which made me get suspicious and the more I looked the more fabricated I felt it all was. But ultimately, I decided I was tunneling, and tried to be reasonable. So, hence, mostly town. At this point, however, they are dropping a bit due to their strange fluctuation in activity. I've been focusing on when they post a lot vs don't & was uneasy seeing the results.

Looking back it does look like a little scummy, but at the time I thought at the time that I was showing enough gameplay in the post that I didn’t need a detailed lengthy answer about my style. I don’t quite find your answer satisfactory about me (since you didn’t bring it up at the time and you’re using an argument I’ve used about someone else against me), but nmego12345's seems genuine enough and it's almost 4:30 in the morning my time so I’ll leave it at that for now.

[kuror0]

Ok it is monday and I hope we can pick up activity after this low post weekend. I'm feeling thrashed but will be around. Hopefully players pick up their prods and we won't need any replace which would be annoying at this point.

@Map Wolf Hope you are feeling better, and now that you catched up would you mind sharing your thoughts and reads on people? Seems a couple were waiting to hear from you.

@Skiddish On post 90 you mentioned you were reading Oacenth in isolation. Did you iso other players? if you did what are your thoughts atm, I know you said it is D1 and you don't have clear reads but maybe some things have changed or become more clear to you. You pointed out something i still owe on post 145 but as I said somewhere I am still re assessing the situation due to recent events.

[grapes]

Seeking replacement for nmego12345.

Prodding platinum_fleece.

[goodmorning]

Besides looking up past Scummies threads and seeing who won for "best Town" and "best Scum," I can recommend the following ones I was actually in off the top of my head:
Town:
Author Mafia - a multiball game in which the Town did an astounding job. (May be hard to read owing to all posts being in the character of authors.)
M262 - Wisdom was very good in this one. His gamesolving is bomb.
N1326 - I was bad in this one and everyone else dragged me with them kicking and screaming.
N1458, N1565 - I was good in this one and dragged everyone else with me kicking and screaming.

Scum:
M137: Less Pressure - Tbh this one is more bad Town than good Scum iirc but it was a fun time nonetheless.
MT1520 - Setup worked against the Town a little bit but Scum won perfectly so.
O547 - I replaced in in LyLo, I think; I don't know if any of the rest of it is worth reading but iirc the LyLo probably is.
N1487 - I learned a really good lesson.


Also, here's the Shadows and Lights link. This is also the game I link to whenever people accuse me of procrastinating only as Scum.

--

I have some more things to say about this game; I'll be back shortly.

[Map Wolf]

Yes. This post has been waiting for a while. I will try to go over my thoughts as quickly as i can.

(In no particular order)

Hopefelly Town

LmkGuy

s i like his posts the most so far. Not that there have been too many posts from anyone :/

Not sure

Skiddish

while i think she has made decent posts she seems "fake". I will provide an example below.

nmego

their posts have been decent. Haven't posted since Thursday, and while i don't think it is alignment indicative it does mean that his views aren't up to date.

platinum

i think has some decent contributions so far. Nothing about him that tells me they are scum.

kuror

has made some nice posts. Overall not much to come from.

goodmorning

i think has been negatively toned in her posts, but i do think she has been somewhat active at least.

Dongempire

i think has had some decent posts. Kinda sucks his wall got deleted.

Might be scum

Galagya

i scumread due to his overdefensivenes. He

is

however pretty confident which i don't think i that alignment indicating.
---

About Skiddish

I’m playing it safe?... Is that how I'm coming off to people? That’s… This game is full of surprises to me. I need time to understand this.

This part is almost selfrefering. I can't really seem how you would naturally write it.

[Map Wolf]

Oh and i forgot two things.
I messed up the RGB and made the "not sure" red rather than blue.
VOTE: Galagya
Not all that sure about this vote, but it is the best place for my vote so far.

[goodmorning]

@Wolf:
1. Please provide examples of Galagya overdefensiveness.
2. Effort isn't indicative of alignment.
3. What specifically do you like about Lmk?
4. What makes you so sure DE isn't lying about having written one?

[Donempire]

@Dong

Spoiler:

Why does reading you as scum while you are (as you say) town makes the one reading you mafia? Because looking through your iso, you dont make a statement reading goodmorning as mafia, so why did her just reading you as scum flipped you off? The only thing she said about you was her next post, which just said your response was "interesting", i would wait for an answer before making such a claim (and she answered but you havent posted since, so.) And so, i want an explanation on why you suddenly thought she was scum.

Does that above quote wall answer it for you? While my reads are now a little different from when I first posted them, I don’t think it’s warranted to make a second list when it's somewhat accurate and there’s still people who haven’t made a complete reads or even just general observations about what they’re feeling from people.

I didnt want you to post an entire readslist, i just wanted to know why you didnt bring up your suspicions (if you had any) of goodmorning when it was time.

I stated more recently that I find Goodmorning as either scum or reading me wrong because knowing myself to be townie (whether or not that one sees that as true) I felt increased attention on myself from her since post 99, particularly in the back and forth between me asking for her reads and her denying them, and I think another reason I'm totally forgetting at the moment.

If she was genuinely finding you scummy, it shouldnt be much of a surprise for her to focus on you, i still dont understand why she has to be scum to you and not a TvT. And doesnt she refuse her reads to anyone except people trying to find it? I mean, if im not mistaken shes doing it almost since page 2.

On the other hand, she’s opening herself up to later scrutiny by voting for me like this now, she does exhibit some pro-town behavior, I could be hyperfocusing in on someone who's actually participating in the dialogue of the game when the mafia could be on the sidelines watching us townies forget them and accuse each other and, she’s probably just frustrated with dealing with someone who she reads as obviously scum.

So the exact opposite of what you are claiming? Do you think GM is scum or just mistaken, or can you simply give what you think is the more likely?

Either way, I can’t really find a grip on how to read Goodmorning right now, but that’s my guess. Either mafia who's trying to devest attention onto an easier target who may have caught on, or townie who’s just really off in reading me due to differences in play experience. I know that’s probably smells of scummy reasoning (because I can backtrack in either direction on that statement), but it’s the truth. Regardless, I want don't have a solid case on most people and I'd prefer more than not the IC to be around past day 1 (mafia or townie) which is why I've stated but not yet voted.

Just say what you think is the more likely option, then call it your opinion. Otherwise it isnt going to lead us anywhere.

I’m playing it safe?... Is that how I'm coming off to people? That’s… This game is full of surprises to me. I need time to understand this.

Yes. This post has been waiting for a while. I will try to go over my thoughts as quickly as i can.

(In no particular order)

Hopefelly Town

LmkGuy

s i like his posts the most so far. Not that there have been too many posts from anyone :/

Not sure

Skiddish

while i think she has made decent posts she seems "fake". I will provide an example below.

nmego

their posts have been decent. Haven't posted since Thursday, and while i don't think it is alignment indicative it does mean that his views aren't up to date.

platinum

i think has some decent contributions so far. Nothing about him that tells me they are scum.

kuror

has made some nice posts. Overall not much to come from.

goodmorning

i think has been negatively toned in her posts, but i do think she has been somewhat active at least.

Dongempire

i think has had some decent posts. Kinda sucks his wall got deleted.

Might be scum

Galagya

i scumread due to his overdefensivenes. He

is

however pretty confident which i don't think i that alignment indicating.
---

About Skiddish

I’m playing it safe?... Is that how I'm coming off to people? That’s… This game is full of surprises to me. I need time to understand this.

This part is almost selfrefering. I can't really seem how you would naturally write it.

uh..
thanks for your input. it speaks for itself.

what was i even complaining about oacenths reads??? do people nowadays just post them because they can?

Alright wolf, can you give us one reason what your predecessor/you did that makes you town? can you post something that helps us? Why are you town? Why are you not scum? You are scum? Yes you are? When will you post actual content?
All questions need to be answered, all questions unanswered.

[goodmorning]

DE they are trying

[kuror0]

Ok the activity is depressing so while everyone returns from the dead I got this to work on before falling in a comma.

I mean, the Oacenth and Galagya ones are a bit gut, but "this post comes from a Town perspective/has Town motivations" is categorically NOT A GUT THING.

Also, it is still page 6, and it's a lot more than anyone else has got - including you.

This was after I said most of your reads were pretty much gut reads to me.

So, more than anyone else got is not really true in my eyes. More than me, sure. So besides the gut ones could you explain better why you got those town reads. maybe I'm missing something but with that explanation it feels it is coming out of thin air and I can't follow your thoughts with only "this post comes from a Town perspective/has Town motivations", if you could explain further that would be helpful.

[LmkGuy]

I'm back. I catched up but this is just a shameless prod dodge. Tonight I will have the time to post properly .

Ok it is monday and I hope we can pick up activity after this low post weekend. I'm feeling thrashed but will be around. Hopefully players pick up their prods and we won't need any replace which would be annoying at this point.

@Map Wolf Hope you are feeling better, and now that you catched up would you mind sharing your thoughts and reads on people? Seems a couple were waiting to hear from you.

@Skiddish On post 90 you mentioned you were reading Oacenth in isolation. Did you iso other players? if you did what are your thoughts atm, I know you said it is D1 and you don't have clear reads but maybe some things have changed or become more clear to you. You pointed out something i still owe on post 145 but as I said somewhere I am still re assessing the situation due to recent events.

That doesn't count as a proper post . Anyway, interested on your thoughts about the game... A lot of your post have kind of just been null comments like the second quote here.

P-Edit: Speak and the deveil shall appear haha. Idk even this comment is still kind of just seeking clarification

[LmkGuy]

Oh also VOTE: Map Wolf. The slot was scumlean before and wolf hasn't done anything to relieve that for me.

[grapes]

boring replaces nmego12345. Please welcome them to the game!

[platinum_fleece]

Apologies for the long delay. Labor Day weekend was pretty busy for me. Going to catch up and post some content soon!

[grapes]

Bump.