STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[Varsoon]

"Wow, I didn't know you wanted to be an actor!"

-Steven

"That's because...
I'm very good at acting."

-Jamie,

Love Letters

VOTECOUNT 1.06

Not Chara (5):

mastin2, Yume, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Almost50, grapes

Reasonably Rational (3):

Firebringer, McMenno, DrippingGoofball

Obi-Wan Kenobi (1):

SirCakez

SirCakez (2):

Creature, Farside22

Creature (1):

Xkfyu

McMenno (1):

CooLDoG

Xkfyu (1):

Seraphim

Farside22 (1):

SnarkySnowman

grapes (1):

Not Chara

Not Voting (9):

Klingoncelt, Foxbird, Skybird, Shiro, Reasonably Rational, Kraskaeaque, killthestory, randomidget, TheWayItEnds

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-09-21 15:10:00)

The Current Stress is -1:

Peridot @Peridot5xg tweeted: I'm a survivor I'm not gon' give up I'm not gon' stop I'm gon' work harder I'm a survivor I'm gonna make it I will survive Keep on survivin'

[mastin2]

WHY has Yume become semi-confirmed after Mastina put her at the top of her reads??

Yes, why indeed. Why would Yume become confirmed town after mastina the self-proclaimed mason has Yume the person who confirmed mastina in the first place as town. Almost like there's some form of mutual confirmation going on, in a private thread. If only there was a name for that.

[Foxbird]

Okay, I spent some time catching up and gathering some thoughts. I feel so free without exams! And tired.

Titus tunnelling is indicative of Titus and not much else. I can probably read that slot better if beeboy posts some more. They're probably town, though.
I'm inclined to believe the mastin/Yume double claim thing, though I must agree with what was said in that if that claim hadn't happened, I'd probably scumread Yume.
Getting townvibes from farside and Skybird, the latter mostly from some stuff in our PT.
I 100% fail at reading Firebringer but it's just too outlandish to be scum at this point.

My current scumpool is Xk and Snarky. There's another player who has claimed something that seems sketchy from my perspective, but it's no good commenting on that right now.

More tomorrow after I sleep and the thread inevitably grew 10 more pages during my slumber because time zones.

[mastin2]

@Farside, I would like to get on the same page as you and Mastina.
Can you just highlight where we're wrong in your opinion?

Okay.

Lean Town

DGB

Don't want to lynch today but I see the points

RR

Needs More

X

Lean Scum

CoolDog

ScumReads

Kraskaeaque (kraska77 + lycanfire)
Seraphim
SnarkySnowman
Creature

Hard to Place, Would lynch

Cakey
KilltheStory (beeboy and I strongly disagree here, willing to go along with him)

DGB's a bit too high. RR is a viable lynch, because they are scum. X is scum. Cooldog isn't. Kraska isn't. Seraphim's not my top pick. SnarkySnowman's more likely town than not. Creature's one of my stronger townreads. SirCakez there shouldn't be ANY doubt at all about; dude's obvscum. And Killthestory shouldn't even remotely be a scumread.

[farside22]

I'm scare that I only disagree with mastin about snarky and nc.
Did hell freeze over?

[mastin2]

That moment when you feel like you're surrounded by self-destructive, stubborn morons who all are

partially

right and yet are overly focused on the parts they

aren't

right on, and you're trying to figure out a way to get them to stop focusing on those parts and focus on the parts they got right.

[farside22]

That moment when you feel like you're surrounded by self-destructive, stubborn morons who all are

partially

right and yet are overly focused on the parts they

aren't

right on, and you're trying to figure out a way to get them to stop focusing on those parts and focus on the parts they got right.

So let the sir wagon happen then.
I'm not joining the NC wagon.
Sorry if that makes me stubborn.

[Firebringer]

Baby, do you remember Suikoden?

dragons aren't babies.
We are hatchlings.

Get it right Titus.

Hatchling, you remember that game don't you?

vaguely

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@Farside, I would like to get on the same page as you and Mastina.
Can you just highlight where we're wrong in your opinion?

Okay.

Lean Town

DGB

Don't want to lynch today but I see the points

RR

Needs More

X

Lean Scum

CoolDog

ScumReads

Kraskaeaque (kraska77 + lycanfire)
Seraphim
SnarkySnowman
Creature

Hard to Place, Would lynch

Cakey
KilltheStory (beeboy and I strongly disagree here, willing to go along with him)

DGB's a bit too high. RR is a viable lynch, because they are scum. X is scum. Cooldog isn't. Kraska isn't. Seraphim's not my top pick. SnarkySnowman's more likely town than not. Creature's one of my stronger townreads. SirCakez there shouldn't be ANY doubt at all about; dude's obvscum. And Killthestory shouldn't even remotely be a scumread.

I came around on Cakey as being a partner of NC due to the rule of 3.
DGB I kinda get. I haven't seen anything scummy from them though.
I doubt RR is scum, but I respect your opinion they are playing me.
CoolDog I just can't trust in my gut.
I agree on KTS town but I understand Beeboy's concerns (which I can't relay without ruining our entire game; don't ask).

Right now I'm at Creature + NC + Cakey + Redacted as a team but Redacted is withheld due to being a moonshot right now.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Baby, do you remember Suikoden?

dragons aren't babies.
We are hatchlings.

Get it right Titus.

Hatchling, you remember that game don't you?

vaguely

What do you remember about it?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

That moment when you feel like you're surrounded by self-destructive, stubborn morons who all are

partially

right and yet are overly focused on the parts they

aren't

right on, and you're trying to figure out a way to get them to stop focusing on those parts and focus on the parts they got right.

So let the sir wagon happen then.
I'm not joining the NC wagon.
Sorry if that makes me stubborn.

And then what? We have the same argument about NC tomorrow and there's no conftown but Yume to guide us?

[mastin2]

Creature, snarky....who else did I agree with. Seraphim I think was the other one.
I'd say pressure someone that gives the most info.
Mastin: where do you stand on this?

Well, my stance on this is twofold.
First, your idea of pressuring someone who gives the most info is mutually exclusive with every name up there who would give none except, "Oh, they were town".
Second, with the

possible

exception of Seraphim, they are town.

I usually don't lay down the law on matters until we get to a lull in the game where nobody's doing anything except repeating themselves to dodge a prod, but I'm strongly considering intervening right here and now to shut you all down and actually lynch scum. I can show you very clearly why Creature is town. Not off of role or anything. Creature is just very obviously town. But I don't want to say why now.

My read on SnarkySnowman isn't as strong. And to be honest, I don't expect much of him even if I'm right and he's town. So I'd rather not put the effort in to defend a player whose value is overall a net gain to scum regardless of his alignment. (This because a combination of reasons: I do not think SnarkySnowman will listen to the players who he needs to listen to, meaning he will vote in the wrong areas, and because others will always scumread him no matter what, meaning he is a constant mislynch bait. He's the type of player that as scum I love to have populating my game because he disrupts town cohesion and acts as a distraction. But he's exactly that: a distraction. A shiny. Nothing more.)

My read on Seraphim is something I want more time to develop, but I don't want it developed through pressure. I want to observe Seraphim in his natural environment, so to speak. There are much better people to push on. He's not someone I see myself wanting to lynch even if he is scum, because I don't think we gain anything from it.

The players I want to lynch within are RR/Not Chara/SirCakez, all which will give information. I mean,

personally

, I'd also love a lynch on Xkfyu, but I acknowledge that while he's scum his lynch won't tell us much.

[mastin2]

Spoiler: reduction

I'm on the fence about a lot of players but here are some thoughts and reads I've had.

farside is town (Even though I will probably get accused of buddying w/e). A high level of engagement with the game and probably the game's strongest scumhunter currently. Which is why Snarky is really hard to read. On the one hand, the push is bullshit. On the other hand, they are putting themselves out there very strongly with their bullshit read/case thing. I'm uncertain as of this moment if that's because Snarky is scum caught with their pants down and now forced to push the read until they can weasel their way out of it OR they are town who genuinely believe what is actually not a fantastic scumread at all. So I'm sitting on that one.

SirCakez and McMenno are two other scumreads I have. If a wagon emerged on either on them, I would definitely join in. grapes has largely outlined a fairly excellent case on Cakez, but there is a strong tendency of surface level play, a going through the motions of engagement. McMenno has been lurking in the wings and also rolefishing super hard. I think every player here wants more answers in terms of role shit but McMenno's questioning of Mastin seemed like scum using the pretense of that lack of information to try and secure a lynch.

I wanted to pressure TWIE almost more than I scumread them. If that makes sense. See if I could beetlejuice them into the thread.
Same thing with Xkfyu. The big difference here being that they showed up and made some other awful posts.

I am really not sure what people are seeing in Not Chara as scum.

Okay, this post pretty much killed any interest I would have ever had in lynching Seraphim.

[farside22]

That moment when you feel like you're surrounded by self-destructive, stubborn morons who all are

partially

right and yet are overly focused on the parts they

aren't

right on, and you're trying to figure out a way to get them to stop focusing on those parts and focus on the parts they got right.

So let the sir wagon happen then.
I'm not joining the NC wagon.
Sorry if that makes me stubborn.

And then what? We have the same argument about NC tomorrow and there's no conftown but Yume to guide us?

I feel comfortable lynching someone I'm scum reading.

What happens if your wrong about nc.
Does that mean you don't want to lynch sir cakez then?

[mastin2]

Not Chara, you need a break from this game like 10 pages ago.
Step back, you sound crazy.

Not crazy, just scum.
You want crazy, stare in the mirror for five minutes. Try it, something magical happens if you keep looking at a reflection like that.

[mastin2]

Where's mastin?

Asleep for half the day, drawing for other parts of it, doing basics like eating for yet more. But here, and still backing you up on your Not Chara push. It is scum. Your reasons are right.

I have more, reasons of my own, but I'm holding back on them until I can for sure find a fifth scum, which I haven't. (You and I disagree a little bit in there. Not a battle I want to fight right now, would much rather we focus on what we mutually agree on.)

[SirCakez]

you already had Creature is nulltown in your last readslist. i think he was talking about when you said, in response to Creature votes, that Creature is "perfect null".

So this was a fuckup within a fuckup, nice.
I really dislike people who vote for extremely null players or contentless players, because they are usually scum fishing for easy mislynches. So when I saw two naked votes dogpile on Creature, I immediately disliked them.

Nothing he's said has felt genuine and a lot of his thoughts are surface level.

Even very early game I thought his tone felt off and his stances are hard to follow. Like his menno read is for fishing and he's stayed far too sticky and confident there considering mcmenno has done some town things.

Obi-wan vote was pretty bad. It's either scum fanning the flames of a tvt or cakes sawing for chara.

I will give you this first part, I haven't been putting any real effort in so far and it's obviously causing me to be read incorrectly. So I'm going to work harder on putting in real content.
The second part - what town things are you referring to from McMenno? Nothing has stuck out to me from him, almost everything he's posting is just fluff and useless. I know he can contribute more.
Final point - I don't understand what was wrong with this vote? Obi has been a scumread for me since pregame.
See below quote

Seriously, look at her scumreads:

ScumReads

Not Chara
Kraskaeaque (kraska77 + lycanfire)
Seraphim
SnarkySnowman
Creature

Not Chara is new.
Kraskaesque are a hydra of newer players.
Seraphim and SnarkySnowman are know as lynchbaits.
grapes sees me as extremely lynchable.

(thanks for this Creature)
This is a great example of a post that sucks from Obi. All of those scumreads are lurkers and lynchbait. Nothing risky.

VOTE: farside

Really hate this vote from Snarky, again. He never responded to my request to explain his farside scumread and he jumped back here anyway, despite the fact he's been fairly active for what he usually is.

The bottom part that snarky never responded to.

I saw later on this page that you changed your read on me to scum after some review.
Was this the only thing you were townreading me for? Feels pretty flimsy.

I still have about 10 pages left to go, I am still content with my Obi vote

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

That moment when you feel like you're surrounded by self-destructive, stubborn morons who all are

partially

right and yet are overly focused on the parts they

aren't

right on, and you're trying to figure out a way to get them to stop focusing on those parts and focus on the parts they got right.

So let the sir wagon happen then.
I'm not joining the NC wagon.
Sorry if that makes me stubborn.

And then what? We have the same argument about NC tomorrow and there's no conftown but Yume to guide us?

I feel comfortable lynching someone I'm scum reading.

What happens if your wrong about nc.
Does that mean you don't want to lynch sir cakez then?

Now, this feels like a catch 22. I would logically re-evaluate my reads if I was wrong, like anyone else. My Cakey read is partially derived from NC being scum (note I have said the rule of three). This naturally creates the concern that I wouldn't lynch Cakey if wrong. If I said I wouldn't re-evaluate my reads, you discredit me on the basis of being a tunneller.

The truth is, you're trying a logistical argument to try and get me to lynch Cakey today despite loading out a bunch of compromises that logically fail.

[mastin2]

I am so legit confused on all RRs reads.

Gee, I wonder why?
Surely it can't be because of something to do with RR's alignment!
Like, maybe, just maybe, it's as if their confusing reads can tell you where they're coming from.

[SirCakez]

Not Chara is obvscum.

Could you explain this?
I'm struggling to get past my newbtown read on it despite the fact most of my townreads are scumreading her.

to anyone thinking of allying with grapes: you will not receive any bonuses you would normally get from allying with a player. and no, no need to bother checking. grapes never said this in the thread. or anywhere. i was told by Varsoon when our alliance was created. grapes' name was not specifically mentioned, but i have a hard time believing the cause was anything other than their role.

VOTE: grapes

pedit: ha.

This post was definitely bad. Outing grapes's role like that is terrible and pointless and I feel like the vote is more because she's trying to push off someone pushing her then because of the role.

I'm on the fence about a lot of players but here are some thoughts and reads I've had.

farside is town (Even though I will probably get accused of buddying w/e). A high level of engagement with the game and probably the game's strongest scumhunter currently. Which is why Snarky is really hard to read. On the one hand, the push is bullshit. On the other hand, they are putting themselves out there very strongly with their bullshit read/case thing. I'm uncertain as of this moment if that's because Snarky is scum caught with their pants down and now forced to push the read until they can weasel their way out of it OR they are town who genuinely believe what is actually not a fantastic scumread at all. So I'm sitting on that one.

SirCakez and McMenno are two other scumreads I have. If a wagon emerged on either on them, I would definitely join in. grapes has largely outlined a fairly excellent case on Cakez, but there is a strong tendency of surface level play, a going through the motions of engagement. McMenno has been lurking in the wings and also rolefishing super hard. I think every player here wants more answers in terms of role shit but McMenno's questioning of Mastin seemed like scum using the pretense of that lack of information to try and secure a lynch.

I wanted to pressure TWIE almost more than I scumread them. If that makes sense. See if I could beetlejuice them into the thread.
Same thing with Xkfyu. The big difference here being that they showed up and made some other awful posts.

I am really not sure what people are seeing in Not Chara as scum.

This is a strong post from Sera, like some others noted.
I agree with basically everything said here except for the scumread on me obviously, but I can see where he's coming from on that read.
Feel good enough to move Sera to nulltown.

You mean four players, all universally regarded as town, and the wagon doesn't take?
Almost50, myself, Yume, and mastina are all on the NC wagon. The NC wagon is facing major resistance.

Why wouldn't scum be hopping on here if the wagon was wrong as a method of discrediting those on the wagon if it was wrong?

This reminds me very much of the wagon on LQ in Sudoken Mafia.

I really hate wagon resistance arguments. They are almost never accurate, you'll see town wagons get resistance just as often as scum wagons. It's not a viable way to read a wagon target unless it's very close to the end of the day and the player count is low enough that scum wouldn't be bussing.

This is not relevant to my Chara read, I just think this argument is terrible.

i could be convinced onto a Snarky wagon depending on how he answers, but i don't think i will be happy about it.

i could wagon grapes. will join the Rational wagon in good cheer if i don't see anything else i like/no one will follow me on OWK. though i've already given up there for today, so.

grapes: are you still townreading Snarky?

This is a terrible fucking post.

It's literally talking out of all three sides of its mouth here.

I'd wagon snarky, could wagon grapes, but also don't mind that wagon grapes is pushing the loudest, oh hey grapes what's your read on snarky?

Like this kinda post just doesn't come from town I'm fucking sorry.

Reactionary pushes are on me + obi. Like reread them more in depth without your "newbs can't be scum for some reason" filter.

This is the kind of explanation I was needing re; chara, thanks.
Moving it to nullscum because of this, the post I quoted earlier and the fact I feel pretty good about everyone pushing it.

@Cakes

Wanna ally?

I'm not sure why you're asking this, considering your huge scumread on me?

About 3 or so pages left, will drop updated reads then.

[Skybird]

to anyone thinking of allying with grapes: you will not receive any bonuses you would normally get from allying with a player. and no, no need to bother checking. grapes never said this in the thread. or anywhere. i was told by Varsoon when our alliance was created. grapes' name was not specifically mentioned, but i have a hard time believing the cause was anything other than their role.

VOTE: grapes

pedit: ha.

I know you and grapes are having a bit of a fight right now, but this seems like a pretty crappy thing to do. Also, it might just be that

you

don't get any special bonuses but that doesn't mean everyone else won't get any bonuses.

Should have added in my last post that I'm in the process of catching up. Still have several more pages to go.

[mastin2]

I'd quote 1288, but it's a bit of a long wall.
This is me saying that, similar to grapes, Titus has my full support.
In an actual rarity, I actually

get

where Titus is coming from. That (almost) never happens. I understand what she's thinking. I understand the reasons for her push, and they are

not

moonlogic. They have a solid basis, which I AGREE with, and this is not only a caliber of play I don't think Titus can pull off as scum (for any who doubt her alignment), but ALSO good analysis which I would sheep even if I wasn't already on the wagon.

Do I have to come in here to tell people to walk away from the thread so we can actually get productive?
Cause I am kind of done with Titus tunneling at this point.

When the game is over.
We'll see who was the one tunneling.
Hint: it aint the multiple people all agreeing for different, yet augmentative, reasons.

[farside22]

That moment when you feel like you're surrounded by self-destructive, stubborn morons who all are

partially

right and yet are overly focused on the parts they

aren't

right on, and you're trying to figure out a way to get them to stop focusing on those parts and focus on the parts they got right.

So let the sir wagon happen then.
I'm not joining the NC wagon.
Sorry if that makes me stubborn.

And then what? We have the same argument about NC tomorrow and there's no conftown but Yume to guide us?

I feel comfortable lynching someone I'm scum reading.

What happens if your wrong about nc.
Does that mean you don't want to lynch sir cakez then?

Now, this feels like a catch 22. I would logically re-evaluate my reads if I was wrong, like anyone else. My Cakey read is partially derived from NC being scum (note I have said the rule of three). This naturally creates the concern that I wouldn't lynch Cakey if wrong. If I said I wouldn't re-evaluate my reads, you discredit me on the basis of being a tunneller.

The truth is, you're trying a logistical argument to try and get me to lynch Cakey today despite loading out a bunch of compromises that logically fail.

Nope.

I'm making a point about why I won't follow you and times it by 10.
I don't see why NC and sir cakes need to be attached together.
Sir cakes just does his catch up and from what I read will most likely vote nc.
Rr is under that same umbrella.
So what then.
You stick with your push on nc even though both clearly are just following you.
I can't believe you just ignore that and keep pushing.
If this is how your going to me the entire length of the game don't expect me to call yo7 nothing but a tunneler.

[Not Chara]

i give up.

that doesn't mean i'm going anywhere. i'll be here to talk all night. if SirCakez is scum then i'll buy OWK as town. out of my 'buddies', SirCakez is the one most likely to be scum. i don't even know if anyone is townreading him anymore. Rational could also be scum but honestly i'd rather see them investigated, or something. i'd say something snide about OWK at this point but i promised myself i wouldn't interact with them anymore.
i almost want to be lynched just to watch mastin, OWK, and grapes experience some form of online whiplash. for varying reasons, because mastin is town.

for the record, i don't think i'll be lynched today. those who have expressed support have already voted. there might be a few lazy stragglers/lurking scum who might join, but i don't see them reaching a majority. i'll see if i can't continue to put my foot in my mouth for the rest of the day, though.

town i am 95% sure on is Firebringer, farside, Yume, mastin, and Seraphim.
i am 100% certain there is a scum on my wagon. it's probably grapes. it could be grapes and OWK. it is... possibly Almost50, but if both grapes and OWK are scum i would not bet money on it.

VOTE: SirCakez

pedit: oh, fantastic. Cakez changed his read on me after one post while i was typing this. now this will look reactionary. because this game wasn't difficult enough.
Skybird, we aren't having a fight. grapes is scum. i outed that because they're scum and also because grapes was looking to ally with other town players.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

That moment when you feel like you're surrounded by self-destructive, stubborn morons who all are

partially

right and yet are overly focused on the parts they

aren't

right on, and you're trying to figure out a way to get them to stop focusing on those parts and focus on the parts they got right.

So let the sir wagon happen then.
I'm not joining the NC wagon.
Sorry if that makes me stubborn.

And then what? We have the same argument about NC tomorrow and there's no conftown but Yume to guide us?

I feel comfortable lynching someone I'm scum reading.

What happens if your wrong about nc.
Does that mean you don't want to lynch sir cakez then?

Now, this feels like a catch 22. I would logically re-evaluate my reads if I was wrong, like anyone else. My Cakey read is partially derived from NC being scum (note I have said the rule of three). This naturally creates the concern that I wouldn't lynch Cakey if wrong. If I said I wouldn't re-evaluate my reads, you discredit me on the basis of being a tunneller.

The truth is, you're trying a logistical argument to try and get me to lynch Cakey today despite loading out a bunch of compromises that logically fail.

Nope.

I'm making a point about why I won't follow you and times it by 10.
I don't see why NC and sir cakes need to be attached together.
Sir cakes just does his catch up and from what I read will most likely vote nc.
Rr is under that same umbrella.
So what then.
You stick with your push on nc even though both clearly are just following you.
I can't believe you just ignore that and keep pushing.
If this is how your going to me the entire length of the game don't expect me to call yo7 nothing but a tunneler.

Even if you're right, Cakey bussing NC is not a problem. It's a good thing because NC is scum. RR and I have been discussing their reads and how they vote in the hood. They didn't want to be on it for fear it would turn people AWAY from the wagon, which is exactly the argument you are making now.

Who follows is a concern somewhat, but I find it slightly hypocritical that you expect me to be worried when scum bus but NOT worried when a wagon composed full of town fails to take. That doesn't make sense.

I have tried treating you with every ounce of respect and given you every OPPORTUNITY to say why NC is town. All I get is because you feel that way and many many personal insults. Do I need to put on a pirate hat? Do a funky dance?