Open 652- Making Friends and Enemies: Over

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: DeasVail

Loopdan was mafia

[Harkonnen97]

not impossible

now that that game is over, i can talk about:
what zyf was calling me "throwing shade" about not_mafia quickhammering, is because he quickhammered twice in Open 650. N_M was scum and Loop was town there, and Loop was the one to eat rope D1. Loops "saltyness" towards N_M that he's shown here could be forced.

[Dunnstral]

No clue what you're on about to be honest

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Will get to this later today.

[Zyf]

im really sad that naru and thor both flipped town. now all my reads went to shit

>doesn't vote penguin
>doesn't vote lolhammer N_M

ok

[Harkonnen97]

BBT is scum. i want to see him dead.

[Zyf]

If you could just
give me something more convincing than "he's scum"
that would be great
kthanx

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sorry guys, not sure I'm gonna have time for this tonight.

Will make it priority tomorrow.

Hark is being bad though and he should stop.

[Harkonnen97]

i cant give you a definite case on BBT. it's mostly gut.

the only time when a thor nk makes sense is from a scum!bbt pov imo. also the way that bbt threw a naked vote on n_m after n_m quickhammered naru, almost like he already knew naru would flip town and he was like "u FUCKING scumlord n_m!!!"

the way he hard townread naru but never really explained way. he could have pushed for a different wagon yesterday; he didn't really resist naru's wagon at all.

Naru is town so people should stop voting there.

none of this is really that convincing, but then again - if bbt isn't scum, who the fuck is? i dont have any other guess.

also thor was scumreading bbt, and i trust his reads.

[texcat]

What are your thoughts on NotMafia?

I see your points on BBT. But if BBT is scum, does that mean that NotMafia has been bussing him from the beginning of the game? Or does it mean that NotMafia is town??

I'm inclined to vote NotMafia and sort him first, but I want to hear from Penguin and DeasVail and BBT before I decide anything.

[Harkonnen97]

Naru is town so people should stop voting there.

i think n_m is town.

[Harkonnen97]

dunno why that quote is there

[DeasVail]

I am finishing my read-through now, but I do have a question for Zyf:

In 297 you express a problem with the possibility of someone lol-hammering, but the texcat slot had claimed and you thought they were scum. So why would a hammer have been a bad thing?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What are you talking about Hark?

Thor was pushing Tex, N_M and Penguin - he wasn't pushing me at all. You just pulled that out of your ass.

When I voted N_M, I didn't even realise there had been a hammer. And of course I knew Naru would flip town, only been saying Naru is town since the beginning of time.

What part of not explaining a town read is scummy?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Plus the fact I wasn't really around to contribute to D2 as I would have liked and there was no case on Naru to start with.

Y'all done goofed when you lynched Naru and I guarantee scum were on that wagon.

[Harkonnen97]

This is not the same BBT from D1. He is like a cornered animal, about to DIE

[DeasVail]

Here are my thoughts:

Harkonnen97 -

Town

The most volatile read for me during my catch-up, but I can't help but land at a townread. I was scumreading Hark right up until the progression from his wagon to Karnos', but from this period of the game came a few key moments for me:

-708 is Hark's ~here are my reads for when you lynch me~ post. In my experience and opinion, quite a common thing for scum to do in a last-ditch effort to look pro-town and like they're all passionate about furthering the town's future! Or something like that. However, if Hark is scum then it's really not an ideal post for him to be making here. He has mostly null-reads and the reads post isn't really saying much at all. But this is exactly why I think he is town. It's pretty easy to fake townreads as scum. You know who the town are and you're therefore more attune to what players' towntells are going to be. So if Hark is scum, why not be more ~impressive~ and have a better reads list. It doesn't make sense for Hark scum to make such a vague ~here are my reads for when you lynch me~ post. And it's in fact much more likely as a VT that he would just have no idea because lack of information etc.

-834, the unvote on Karnos. Completely unnecessary for scum to do here. At the time it was looking very unlikely that someone other than Hark or Karnos would be lynched. Karnos had a pretty solid movement against him. Hark still had residual suspicion placed upon him. Just as the Karnos wagon was beginning to build up, Hark joined. But then at its peak, he unvotes? As scum it makes the most sense just to commit to the bus, or not have joined the karnos wagon at all. And again, considering that there were very limited options outside of Hark/Karnos, unvoting only attracts unwanted attention following a karnos flip. I believe Hark as scum would just have stayed on the wagon and relied on the bussing to get him out of trouble the following day, rather than attempting to halt a Karnos lynch.

There are some weaker reasons I have for townreading Hark as well as doubts that remain, but the above form the most dominant basis for my read.

~

Dunnstral -

Town

Considering Dunnstral's sparse posting, there is a very high percentage of Karnos push in there, which works as a point in his favour, considering that after his karnos vote, he... doesn't really do much other than talk about how karnos should be lynched? I also like how his posts indicate a lack of care for how he actually appears to the other players in the game.

~

Not_Mafia -

Mafia

This read may seem hypocritical considering part of my reasoning for the Dunnstral read, and maybe it is. I don't really know, but while Dunnstral's posting clearly contains some effort towards progressing his goals, Not_Mafia is just... there. I would vig him, so why not lynch him?

~

NJAC - No Read

Townread at the start of the game that went kind of stale. I liked the confidence in Martha being town and I liked the pressure applied to Penguin and the subsequent read progression, but there is nothing that makes me comfortable moving NJAC to a townread at this point in the game. Still, if I were to guess his alignment, I would go with town.

~

BlueBloodedToffee -

Town

There is possible bias here but I did very much relate to his suspicion of Hark throughout the early game. The persistence with what was perhaps not the strongest reasoning and how his read on Hark was influencing his view of the whole game read as quite genuine to me and I also like his interactions with Thor regarding this topic. 790 also feels to me like a post that scum-with-Karnos wouldn't make. However, as I'm writing this I don't have the strength in a BBT townread that I thought I would. Leaving him as a townread based on general impression since I'm running out of time but I will re-evaluate later.

~

Zyf -

Town

Cautious here since I think I do have the tendency to read Zyf's playstyle as town, but there is enough of what seems like genuine thought progression in his vote-changes and spam posts, as well as some smatterings of very decent points throughout the game that makes me go with town here. Again, don't have the time to review his ISO in detail right now to point to exact posts but I feel quite good about a townread here.

~

PenguinPower -

Town

First person to push karnos with substantial reasoning expressed. This didn't feel like a weak ~want to pressure my scumbuddy but don't want to lynch~ push to me and if I were in the game at the time, Penguin's push was the kind that would have me listening. I also like the weird texcat claim debacle. He's staying cool while maintaining that he doesn't want to talk about it. Again, just an unnecessary thing that attracts attention and something I believe scum would avoid.

~

Texcat -

Town

General impression, but not a strong read. Can explain more later if required.

~

So, there's an obvious problem here. I think Not-Mafia is mafia, but I have no idea who he would be mafia with. I think it's fairly likely I have a townread wrong somewhere, and will have to re-evaluate. I'm hoping that being able to engage with the game in real-time as opposed to in retrospect helps, but maybe I'll remain just as clueless! Who knows?

I'm pretty ultra keen for lynching Not_Mafia though.

Thoughts?

[Harkonnen97]

no

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So you're not going to respond to anything Hark?

[DeasVail]

Hark, what reason do you have to think that NM would behave differently as scum here? And how do you think he would be different?

[Zyf]

I am finishing my read-through now, but I do have a question for Zyf:

In 297 you express a problem with the possibility of someone lol-hammering, but the texcat slot had claimed and you thought they were scum. So why would a hammer have been a bad thing?

last words
i like when players get them

i mean it can be 100% wifom but still it's useful for it to be there

[Zyf]

This is not the same BBT from D1. He is like a cornered animal, about to DIE

lmfao what

[Zyf]

vote n_m, help the cause
interesting reads list, but slightly confused as to how tf you know me
penguin read makes you penguin's alignment, whatever it may be

so if you couldn't lynch N_M who would you lynch next, it's hard to tell from the list

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: NM

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: N_M