Mini 1837: Family Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Nachomamma8]

In what world is "too defensive" something used not to describe scummy behavior?
I don't understand the relevance of my past with you, that's pointless shade casting. I don't need experience with you to have a strong read on you.

Defensiveness isn't a scumtell. Being "too defensive" isn't a scumtell, it's a personality trait.
I never described kraska as "too defensive" or "too anything", I just keep drawing a line between "this is something I am questioning" and "this is something that I find scummy".

And no, I don't imagine you would understand why I'm bringing up your past failures.
When I am nightkilled this game and I flip as town, understand that your approach to me doesn't work. When your approach to someone doesn't work, you need to change how you approach them, you need to try harder not to read them, you need to be more careful with your reads on them so you don't fall flat on your face the next time.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Elyse

While I'm still acknowledging that Elyse's case could have just been a townie trying too hard to put words with feelings, I'm not really buying that Elyse as town would stretch quite that much (in particular her "Nacho's saying that nothing has happened! Scummy!"), and I don't really like her "too tame, too much uncertainty" tells; I don't think that any of what she pointed out is an actual scumtell or anything that she believes is a scumtell and I don't think she'd make such a large case on something she knew was completely insignificant.

[SirCakez]

Nacho's posts at the start seeked to actively misrep Kraska, then when confronted with this he proceeded to misrep me then started dodging the game.
That summarizes it pretty succinctly.

Let's actually look at my posts against Kraska again:

Oh I didn't notice that nacho hadn't posted either. I thought she listed all the people who didn't post on her "shortlist"
Well then, care to explain why I'm part of your selective list camn and why you're okay with me being lynched? Looks like culling to me if you ask me

What sort of answer are you expecting here?
Do you think that camn is planning on pushing through a lynch on you because you are on her Day 1 shortlist?

I think we can both agree that I'm not misrepping kraska by asking her questions. At least, I hope we can both agree on this point.

That's not what I'm talking about, I was pointing out that it doesn't look random to me like she's saying
I'm a newer player so we haven't played together much at all before
And dwlee and cakes look like the easiest pickings out of the playerlist

She said it was almost random, which is different from completely random (and if it was completely random - a dwlee/you/Cakez trio is just as likely as any other so I don't understand your criticism there). She also said that Day 1 is very dynamic, meaning the shortlist she has right now is probably based on feelings, inclinations, isn't yet significant.

I don understand why you're currently worried about her shortlist unless you think she has the intent to follow through with stated reads in the first three pages of the game.

I said that she "criticized" camn's shortlist, which is true.
I also said that she was "worried" about it. Is this the misrep you're talking about? What am I misrepresenting here?

So, AT BEST, your big problem with my exchange with kraska is that I used the word "worried".

Second, to me dodging the game? Because I went less than 24 hours without posting? No.

My big problem with this is your motivations here (misrep wasn't a good term for it). I don't think anything you attacked Kraska for was AI and it looks like a scum trying to fake a push early on onto a player who left themselves open to an easy push. It reminds me of your Waco Kid push in TV Show Characters mafia which just ended.

In what world is "too defensive" something used not to describe scummy behavior?
I don't understand the relevance of my past with you, that's pointless shade casting. I don't need experience with you to have a strong read on you.

Defensiveness isn't a scumtell. Being "too defensive" isn't a scumtell, it's a personality trait.
I never described kraska as "too defensive" or "too anything", I just keep drawing a line between "this is something I am questioning" and "this is something that I find scummy".

And no, I don't imagine you would understand why I'm bringing up your past failures.
When I am nightkilled this game and I flip as town, understand that your approach to me doesn't work. When your approach to someone doesn't work, you need to change how you approach them, you need to try harder not to read them, you need to be more careful with your reads on them so you don't fall flat on your face the next time.

That's something we disagree on
Gigabyte was the one who said you were trying to make kraska look "too defensive", not sure why you're arguing that part with me

Your AtE is not convincing

[camn]

@camn
You said earlier that you wouldn't support a Nacho lynch D1 but now say you will. What's up?

In general...I am very uncertain day 1. I act confident, because of course I do, but in truth I don't have strong reads. Yet. As such, my policy is to support lynches on players I don't really know that well...so that day 2 consists of people I can read better, increasing the odds of me winning. So nacho gets a pass, generally.

BUT... He started out so scummy, as you pointed out already. So I reconsider my guidelines. I like lynching scum more than I like internal consistency. So lets see how this all plays out.

UNVOTE: SpicyJalapeñoKnocks

[Elyse]

If Nacho isn't lynched by tomorrow morning I will be PISSED

Just read his latest posts and his shitty OMGUS vote on me. I think my personal favorite is telling Cakez that his read can't be strong because he hasn't played with Nacho "many times".

[camn]

You want a nacho powerlynch? Overnight?

[SpyreX]

That hellfire wasnt hellfirey enough but this wagon makes me sad.

[House]

I kinda like Nacho's responses, tbh.

[Postie]

I'm not really buying that Elyse as town would stretch quite that much

I really wish I could agree with you.

[House]

I think Elyse is a bit reachie here, but I don't think it's a deliberate act.

[House]

I mean idk, she thought I was scum because I backed off from a joke, and then bounced on to this case on Nacho...

Seems kinda high profile doubtcasting for scum.

[Postie]

329 makes me want to both scumread Elyse for how fake it sounds and townread her for how ballsy the push is.

[SpyreX]

Oh i don't think it's a scum move. The double down on it especially. But it's still moon farts

[kraska77]

329 makes me want to both scumread Elyse for how fake it sounds and townread her for how ballsy the push is.

Yeah same her push seems unconditionally strong considering the gamestate
I was iffy on nacho But that last post on elyse was bad...it just seems really weak, like "here, have a vote"

[Papa Zito]

Elyse's case was a pile of crap and Nacho tore it to shreds. More interesting is Elyse refuses to back down afterwards.

well met

I am entreating the blood gods for a miracle vig. Please oh miracle vig deliver us the dead bodies, amen.

[SpyreX]

I just can't see scum holding onto it though zito help me

[gigabyteTroubadour]

tbh i think the nacho push is probably coming from town but we should talk about the dramonic push

kraska do you think anyone is scum or are you still pro-spicy policy lynch

[House]

Policy lynch?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

half-joking there
they're scummy enough but i don't know if that's how kraska feels

[SirCakez]

Nah Nacho is still scum, Elyse is prob town

Nacho's responses were so easily fakeable, I don't understand why he's getting townread for it.
Its like textbook Nacho!scum.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm not really buying that Elyse as town would stretch quite that much

I really wish I could agree with you.

Why do you disagree?

[Nachomamma8]

Oh i don't think it's a scum move. The double down on it especially. But it's still moon farts

I have a little personal experience that makes the double down a bit less convincing than it would be otherwise, I will dig it up when I'm home.

[Nachomamma8]

tbh i think the nacho push is probably coming from town but we should talk about the dramonic push

kraska do you think anyone is scum or are you still pro-spicy policy lynch

Do you have anything to add to the dramonic push? I've been uninterested because I don't see how his play has been different from normal dramonic play thus far.

[Nachomamma8]

Also, why do you think Elyse's push on me looks town?

[kraska77]

okay so elyse went from nothing to gobsmack "LYNCH NACHO THE SCUMZER". there's no succession she just massacred in to attack and her tone is accusatory...it feels forced and offbeat from the gamestate, like she's more content attacking than give room for nacho to explain himself. idk compare this to cakes/nacho interactions, felt more natural and genuine. it's ballsy but i dont feel comfortable writing her off as town for that

post 326 nacho votes elyse and this is totally a valid vote/push to make after his rebuttal of her case...but then he goes on to say he acknowledges that elyse could be town and i feel this negates the effect of his vote if that was supposed to pressure her...why arent you pushing elyse more strongly nacho?