Newbie 1758 - Symmetry (Game Over)

[DayahaangRai]

I repeat:

Joshz is at L-1. Give an intent to hammer if you are thinking of hammering him so that he can get to claim.

[Joshz]

Joshz's poss:
20 Random Votes without any reason.

23 Ignores Jackel's question.

31 Still ignores the question.

40 OMGUS'es Human.

42 "Random Voting with no Explanation" Hypocrisy! In my books, Hypocrite equals Scum.

67 More like regret because you got caught so easily?

85 Saying he's town because he knows he is town or something like that. By saying you're town, It doesnt even decrease a slight sus on you.

142 Why do you try to ignore the fact that i said i skimmed through the pages. I was keeping my vote till I post my thoughts on you. And I didnt want to get on a wagon without any reason.

147 Saying you're town is indeed a scum tell in the forums i have played. Townies usually dont have to tell it. And Why are you so annoyed with the wagon on you? And It's funny how you say "I am the only one being focused" because Space is under sus too. And Your OMGUSings are so cute.

153 Wow, Just wow. I am not a newbie as well but i am not regretting playing newbie games so far. And what did you expected? You are being scummy and suspicious af. So, When you are on a wagon, You are making the players here faulty.

135 And what do you think you have contributed or achieved so far in the game? Nothing productive at all. Why are you so hypocritical? This is like you are asking for the game to speed up the pace but you are yourself doing nothing other than talking about it. And The same "only Josh Show" might be the reason for not much speedy pace for everyone.

After all his posts reading, He has OMGUS'ed, shown hypocrisy few times, complaining about the slow pace and players and not doing anything productive himself.

Conclusion: He's either a extremely, annyoing/annoyed and un-helpful townie or a Scum and i guess he being scum has higher possibilities. Even if he is a town, What good will he do just by complaining and wasting town's time from getting wider range of sus list?

VOTE: Joshz

Will start answering few questions pointed to me and will try to post few reads on others soon if i can.

When I flip town lynch Howard first, then this guy. I'm only vanilla so you aren't going to lose the game by hammering me. The annual official game just started on another forum anyways so idc at all anymore.

Or if you guys want to stop being fucking morons that'd be cool but I give up on you at this point. Haha Rai bet you're gonna quote this post and call it garbage scum ate. Fuck off with your garbage post filled with autism.

[Human Sequencer]

lol
can we get an actual player in this slot plz^

@rai stop tunneling the low hanging fruit

jackel stop lurkaderping

[Joshz]

Also, I know I haven't played well, I'm still left completely stumped if im the idiot for not seeing why people scum read me for what to me is nothing, or if you're the idiots. Nothing else at all has happened in this game because a townie became the single tunnels vision focal point of everything, and mafia has no reason the change it so it's just placating on me. I'm not gonna sign up for a newbie game again. A bit of advice to everyone else: psyche is not lock town. Don't assume because he's the IC that he can't still win for scum. He has given just about no game related content, just helped people, which I'm sure those of you who asked for it appreciate but it's NAI. The fact he's produced absolutely nothing makes him slightly scummier in my eyes. I'd recommend town inspect role check him tonight and call him out tomorrow, it's worth outing yourself if he is scum becauss otherwise he's possibly going to steamroll the game, and if he's town don't say anything because you have no need to.

[Joshz]

And if the inspect role clears him the most experienced person being conf town until he dies is cool

[Joshz]

lol
can we get an actual player in this slot plz^

@rai stop tunneling the low hanging fruit

jackel stop lurkaderping

Why don't you go read through the thread, remove every post either by or about me, and see what you're left with.

[Human Sequencer]

y tho

[Psyche]

Daya's pbpa of Joshz doesn't really seem to have much substance. He's fallen into a newbie trap where he searches posts for congruence with buzzwords like "OMGUS" and "hypocrisy" instead of more actively trying to consider how his posts suggest he has a scum win condition rather than a town one.

- OMGUS isn't a real scumtell. It's just not. It's just a tendency people have to be suspicious of the people suspecting them, especially when they're town. The reason it happens is because people can't fathom that other people could read them so inaccurately; they find the alternative explanation that the person is only

pretending

to suspect them more probable. I did a short study on accusations of OMGUS and found that they don't really predict scumhood at all, even when you control for

town

accusations of OMGUS. I haven't published those results in MD since they seemed sort of obvious, but I've had to make this point in Newbies really often, so maybe I should.

- Scum have just as much incentive to avoid hypocrisy as town. In fact, they often pay excruciating attention to the consistency within their posting history, since their chief/most salient concern in a game is to avoid being lynched. Instead of reasoning about whether a post is hypocritical, you should ask yourself whether a post suggests his win condition is not to find and lynch scum but instead to survive until the town is eliminated.

- Deciding to lynch players according to how "annoying" or "unhelpful" they are might seem like the next best thing to lynching players according to their likelihood of being scum, but oftentimes it directly conflicts with the latter. After all, scum are more concerned with the form rather than the function of their posts, and generally have an easier time being agreeable and helpful to players. In fact, there's a buzzword for it - buddying. I'd say most D1s end with the most annoying person being lynched. Comparatively few D1s end with

scum

getting lynched. Mafia often use VIs like Josh as scapegoats to engineer mislynches. We probably shouldn't fall for that.

Maybe Josh is scum, but my reading of him is as a town VI. He doesn't really know how to play, and that leads him to make mistakes, but the emotional content of his posts seems pretty sincere. I believe him when he spitefully calls the people voting him fucking morons for trying to get him lynched. He probably really believes the town is making a dumb mistake right now.

[Hellfire Missile]

who hasn't voted? i know i'm not voting for him. (for now)

Come on guys, we are only 8 pages in..

[DayahaangRai]

@Sobloev: You had said "Being overly defensive" is a scumtell of yours. Dont you think you are doing the same thing right now? Being overly-defensive especially with 117 where you asked for questions/accusations to defend yourself which means you indeed are being Overdefensive.

Human Sequencer: 102 Pressure for what? A Claim? Or you are helping build a wagon? And as Sobloev is new to these games. Do you mean you can make her crack and start being scummy by pressuring her? New players generally start being suspicious after a wagon is formed on them. Just after that, Human gets off the vote without telling the reason to Un-VTL and votes Jackel. Very keen getting someone lynched? And he states the reason just after Howard asks for it. Pretty sus.

Loopdan 65 How is she scum and how are you so confident about that?

Psyche: I've seen no good posts from him except his IC post. He has tried to abstain from voting and that's not a town-like, is it?


Sus list so far:
Joshz
Human Sequencer
Sobloev
Psyche

[Joshz]

I can respect the scum who turned me into a wagon because I made myself an easy target. I can't respect the townies who fell for it, though we won't know who was who til the end for the game.

[Psyche]

mod should probably warn josh or worse for his ableist language

[Hellfire Missile]

who hasn't voted? i'd look but in a rush

@psyche what do you mean

[Psyche]

I'm a slothful and careful guy who has trouble developing confident reads because my research and game experience has taught me that most reads are shit. I don't like voting for people without really believing they're scum. I don't like saying things about players that I'm not certain has substance. I used to be the sort of person who makes flawed, overwrought posts like Daya's 173, but I just don't have the taste for it anymore. I know this is a bad habit, but I've never been able to shake it; I'm just not a perfect player. Still, maybe you won't see me take clear, detailed stances as often as I perhaps should, but when I do, I promise I'll put a lot of effort into them.

[Human Sequencer]

yeah VI was my read too
I think he knows how to play, just not how to play here
site meta is probs really different where he comes from

josh you aren't getting lynched unless we have somebody as retarded as me and misguided as you in this game who isn't already on your wagon

@rai
town was doing nothing, i put my vote somewhere to make something happen. no claims plz
let me go on record saying definitely not keen to get someone lynched
i responded to howard because he asked me a question, lol

[Loopdan]

I haven't even caught up but...

UNVOTE:

[Psyche]

There are a couple of SEs here who have been assisting with advice.

theirs hasn't been nearly as effortful/substantive

[Loopdan]

Loopdan is either town or scum really trying hard to be town, harder than they have to.

This is surprising to read. I am often scumread as town by players unfamiliar with me.

[DayahaangRai]

lol
can we get an actual player in this slot plz^

@rai stop tunneling the low hanging fruit

jackel stop lurkaderping

What do you mean by that?

Daya's pbpa of Joshz doesn't really seem to have much substance. He's fallen into a newbie trap where he searches posts for congruence with buzzwords like "OMGUS" and "hypocrisy" instead of more actively trying to consider how his posts suggest he has a scum win condition rather than a town one.

- OMGUS isn't a real scumtell. It's just not. It's just a tendency people have to be suspicious of the people suspecting them, especially when they're town. The reason it happens is because people can't fathom that other people could read them so inaccurately; they find the alternative explanation that the person is only

pretending

to suspect them more probable. I did a short study on accusations of OMGUS and found that they don't really predict scumhood at all, even when you control for

town

accusations of OMGUS. I haven't published those results in MD since they seemed sort of obvious, but I've had to make this point in Newbies really often, so maybe I should.

- Scum have just as much incentive to avoid hypocrisy as town. In fact, they often pay excruciating attention to the consistency within their posting history, since their chief/most salient concern in a game is to avoid being lynched. Instead of reasoning about whether a post is hypocritical, you should ask yourself whether a post suggests his win condition is not to find and lynch scum but instead to survive until the town is eliminated.

- Deciding to lynch players according to how "annoying" or "unhelpful" they are might seem like the next best thing to lynching players according to their likelihood of being scum, but oftentimes it directly conflicts with the latter. After all, scum are more concerned with the form rather than the function of their posts, and generally have an easier time being agreeable and helpful to players. In fact, there's a buzzword for it - buddying. I'd say most D1s end with the most annoying person being lynched. Comparatively few D1s end with

scum

getting lynched. Mafia often use VIs like Josh as scapegoats to engineer mislynches. We probably shouldn't fall for that.

Maybe Josh is scum, but my reading of him is as a town VI. He doesn't really know how to play, and that leads him to make mistakes, but the emotional content of his posts seems pretty sincere. I believe him when he spitefully calls the people voting him fucking morons for trying to get him lynched. He probably really believes the town is making a dumb mistake right now.

-In a mafia game few weeks before in a different forum, I caught a scum OMGUSing and in that forum, OMGUS is rare as it is considered a scum-tell.

-Then again, No Town likes to be a hypocrite as far as i know.

-That is the reason for "Even if he is town"

So, If Josh flips scum, I can consider you his scum-mate? Everyone has emotions. Anyone can do what Josh is doing. Trying to trash/crap/moron call is not a Town-friendly move.

And may i ask for your reads?

[Loopdan]

Yo HM. This game isn't a puzzle that's made for you to solve. It's a puzzle you have to solve yourself.

There's 10 players here. 2 of them are scum. You know you're town.

Red alert.

[Joshz]

But I don't want to live due to spewing ate, I do not like my gameplay at all this game, I would be mad at josh if I was someone else in this game (ignoring I would never have let the discussion be so tunnelled).

And yes psyche, your help has been much more significant than the SEs. I agree with that part. Doesn't excuse you as a player in the game too though.

[Loopdan]

@Loopdan: Since you are open to D1 policy lynching, who would be your PL now and why?

Only if I don't end up with a strong scum read. PL would be the dude whose faking being new.

[Joshz]

Also I OMGUS a lot sorry that's my personality lol its nothing personal against anyone I'm sure ur all great people and we share interests since we're both playing mafia. It's purely about this game so if I call u an idiot or a moron or anything else don't take it personally even though I'll probably get warned for it because that seems to be the environment on this site.

[Loopdan]

Out of time. I have more to say but it'll wait until tonight.

[Joshz]

[quote="In post 189, Human Sequencer"
I think he knows how to play, just not how to play here
site meta is probs really different where he comes from

[/quote]