Newbie 1758 - Symmetry (Game Over)

[Huntress]

we lynched scum mostly because of me imo tho thats probably partially ego bias

As far as I can see it didn't have that much to do with you. Why are you trying to claim the credit for it?

im townie, and i dont think anyone will argue that.

You're not

that

obviously town, in fact there are a few things that are bothering me about you, but you're not top of my list at the moment so I'll deal with the others first.

I mean I guess it could be possible if someone is trying to set up HM for an easy lynch today. But then scum would be somebody who Locust is unlikely to inspect which excludes me, Sequencer and HM.

This is a good point.

How do i get content started? Who do i focus on? Don't give me some on who acts most scum, because I have no idea either. Don't tell me who look's most town because I don't know that either (contributing to town discussion?) How do you even get reads? (No gut because atm irl i actually don't know how i'm feeling everyday so I wouldn't recognize a gut when i saw one)

You could start by looking at cases and points that people have made and seeing if you agree with what they say, or if you think they are making it up.

Can I ask more questions during a non-newbie game and not get automatically lynched?

That depends a bit on the other players. They're usually helpful but might get suspicious of you. I'd recommend that you stick to newbie games until you feel more comfortable with the game though. If you're no longer eligible to /in for one you can always offer to replace in.

[Joshz]

If we lynched you and you flipped scum I could see a convincing argument for Sequencer being your partner.

Please elaborate.

Two reasons: 1. When Locust first posted sequencer and I both voted him pretty quickly but he only accused me of being scummy for this. Seems he was more threatened by me than Sequencer. 2. DayRai made long posts accusing Joshz and Sequencer but the Sequencer post felt a lot more contrived and less genuine to me. I think DayRai might've known he looked suss so distanced himself from his buddy knowing the wagon wouldn't get any traction.

A day 1 mislynch on the IC slot is basically the best case scenario for scumteam

Explain please.

So I'm assuming that if you replace into an IC slot you also have to be IC but I'm not sure if thats true. All else being equal, you would expect the IC to be the best player in the game meaning good lynch for scum if they're town. All I'm saying is we should give Psyche the chance to explain himself or get replaced before lynching him.

Anyway since Sequencer asked for everyone's list:

Don't lynch

Joshz
HR

Null-ish

Loopdan
Sequencer

D2 candidates

Jackel

Lynch 'em

Psyche
HM
Locust

Don't lynch me but lynch the guy I'm saying is lock town... huh?

bringing this up again because it makes sobolev look a lot worse to me. hm/psyche are the easy pushes (besides myself) and locust was the cop claim.

Well lynching the IC for scum is great because the theoretical best player is gone right out of the gate, and in this case lynching psyche doesn't even give town much info.

@howard sorry that's how I type lol nothing against hm or anyone (bar maybe rai) as a person. And hm, lylo means town needs to lynch scum or they lose. Mylo means they need to not lynch a townie. So basically in Mylo you can afford a no lynch, whereas in lylo you can't.

I don't expect a mafia flip today anyways though. We need 5 out of 7 townies on a mafia wagon for that to happen. If one of those townies is afk (Psyche) we need 5 of 6. Considering how this game has been I don't expect townies to be thst organized so what will probably happen is a mislynch. I've never played a 9 person game and it seems more mafia sides with a smaller pool imo.

Jackel is a weird case. I believe he's town and town read him. However, he's been on every wagon that I don't like and ND he just feels different. So I'm conflicted.

What I think needs to happen is a lynch on someone who hasn't been wagoned

, probably Loopdan though ideally Howard from my perspective. Mafia is in control of this game and that's how we will take control back.

and then after when i say im also fine with a jackel lynch. granted, i remembered having more involvement than i did. human being on the wagon that early helps him. howard and hm not being on it period is awful. hm not on the wagon, what a shocker. then again, jackel couldve easily avoided being lynched, claiming tracker was awful lol (though he can explain that in post game if he wishes). one thing is that howard being on my wagon immediately after jackel could be buddying but thats a pretty bad play, so i, again, consider hm the scummier one in this situation.

[Joshz]

also, hm, there is no science to scum reading. i will just say "gut" because in the end thats all it is. learning to pick up tells and improving your general gut reading is something thatll happen with time. its better to post bad reads than no reads.

[Sobolev Space]

Alright gonna make a few comments before I go work out.

if he flips town me/howard/you (in order of likelyhood in my opinion) are going to die, of course assuming locust doesnt. then we lynch hs. if neither of them are scum, its lylo, but i dont see that as particularly likely.

Really? I see Huntress as the obvious nk tonight considering she's conftown. If HM flips town then Howard and I have already said we'd be suss of you which makes scum likely to want to keep you around. I think Howard would probs be next on the list.
The way I see it is that doc should be protecting Locust no matter what so if Locust dies tonight then we're in a setup without doc, if Locust lives but is rb'd we have a doc/roleblocker, and if Locust lives but still isn't rb'd idk what to think but we're probs in a setup without a doc with the scum going for a really out there gambit. Either way we'll know by tomorrow.

I mean I guess it could be possible if someone is trying to set up HM for an easy lynch today. But then scum would be somebody who Locust is unlikely to inspect which excludes me, Sequencer and HM.

This is a good point.

Any comment on the other theory I give in the bottom of post 612?

[Hellfire Missile]

This is all is gonna be shit but i'm going to get lynched anyway so why the fuck not.

Also gonna be either scum or town because don't wanna get into the details too much

Huntress: Town
Not alota information to go off of, i think she's waiting for more information to vote. Clear-headed, (coldly?) logical, could easily sway town to vote her way (maybe not locust idk)
I just don't feel she's scum

morelater (maybe on huntress because i feel like that was too short)

[Joshz]

lol??

[Joshz]

Alright gonna make a few comments before I go work out.

if he flips town me/howard/you (in order of likelyhood in my opinion) are going to die, of course assuming locust doesnt. then we lynch hs. if neither of them are scum, its lylo, but i dont see that as particularly likely.

Really? I see Huntress as the obvious nk tonight considering she's conftown. If HM flips town then Howard and I have already said we'd be suss of you which makes scum likely to want to keep you around. I think Howard would probs be next on the list.
The way I see it is that doc should be protecting Locust no matter what so if Locust dies tonight then we're in a setup without doc, if Locust lives but is rb'd we have a doc/roleblocker, and if Locust lives but still isn't rb'd idk what to think but we're probs in a setup without a doc with the scum going for a really out there gambit. Either way we'll know by tomorrow.

I mean I guess it could be possible if someone is trying to set up HM for an easy lynch today. But then scum would be somebody who Locust is unlikely to inspect which excludes me, Sequencer and HM.

This is a good point.

Any comment on the other theory I give in the bottom of post 612?

huntress could be a kill as conftown. they arent being productive in discussions though, theyre idling and scum reading town (me!). obviously YOU dont know im telling the truth unless youre the scum, but the scum does, and theres no need to kill her immediately if shes just going to push my lynch. youre right, its more likely huntress will, i forgot about them at the time lol they werent in my mind due to being conftown i was just thinking of us.

[Joshz]

This is all is gonna be shit but i'm going to get lynched anyway so why the fuck not.

Also gonna be either scum or town because don't wanna get into the details too much

Huntress: Town
Not alota information to go off of, i think she's waiting for more information to vote. Clear-headed, (coldly?) logical, could easily sway town to vote her way (maybe not locust idk)
I just don't feel she's scum

morelater (maybe on huntress because i feel like that was too short)

not sarcastic: is this a joke?

[Huntress]

I was thinking about suggesting that a little while ago and I don't think it's worth doing unless we get to lylo and the doc is still alive.

Make it the Day before lylo as a claim in lylo shouldn't, and wouldn't, be believed. Possibly the Day before that to narrow things down more. It means that if there's a counterclaim we have time to lynch both for the win in we get it wrong the first time.

hey is it against the rules to discuss hellfire's other game? it is still going on (day 5) but all I want to discuss is hellfire, who was lynched day 1, and discuss his flip.

It is definitely against the rules. Check out this link which explains the rule in more detail and gives examples of what is and is not allowed.

it is not an urge to rush onto a lynch. its an urge to stop wasting time. the fact this day is still going and now your paranoia is making you scum read me is a testimony to that. you need reasons why im town? id like to point out i was the one defending a you lynch and a psyche lynch, before either of you were proven town. i was the one that said we should lynch out of the se/ic people. i cant say anything else ive done because this game has been dead and a LOT of the content has been from me. im in a lot of games, i see no reason to sit around wasting time when there is going to be no new information today. if he flips town you should be gunning for human, again depending on the night kill, but this is a newbie game so i understand peoples reads wont be as accurate. the newbie factor on everyone is something to consider and is affecting your judgment.

It's quite common for scum to defend someone they know is going to flip town so that is no proof of anything. There is a lot to be gained from further discussion. It will give us a better idea of who to look at in the next Days if we don't lynch scum toDay, and for those who are lynched/nk'd it will be their last chance to join that discussion. A quick lynch will prevent that.

[Huntress]

I've been through everything HM has written and I've come to the conclusion that his posting, although inconsistent, is not alignment-indicative. Nor do I think, from what I've seen, that if he had a roleblocker role PM he would have failed to read what it said about using both actions. I'll review the cases against him tomorrow.

Any comment on the other theory I give in the bottom of post 612?

It's risky but possible and I think there's one or two players here that might risk it for a Day or two. Enough to give them a fake claim if they need it in that time.

[Human Sequencer]

[quote="sobolev]More importantly, if I was scum there's no way I would risk letting Locust live/inspect last night considering I was his biggest scum read through all of yesterday so there's a good chance he would inspect me.[/quote]
That's valid, but not enough to 100% win me over.

What's the case on me? I don't understand how I'm a pretty consistent scumread despite being on the jackel wagon almost from the word go and doing nothing but scumhunt (yesterday successfully) and townhunt all day.


Also what's the case on howard? He should be lock town at this point for the reasons I pointed out in post 607
I mean I get it if you disagree w/ my reads for some reason but please at least address it and let me know so we can talk and mull it over, it'll help us all get closer to finding the right lynch.

and then after when i say im also fine with a jackel lynch. granted, i remembered having more involvement than i did. human being on the wagon that early helps him. howard and hm not being on it period is awful.

I fell into that trap too, Howard -was- on the wagon but left when Jackel claimes tracker (480). He gives valid reason for doing this-- Locust hadn't confirmed nor denied his cop status at the time, and Howard wasn't sure whether to trust Rai's word.

My read on Josh is like 80% gut, but it's incredibly powerful gut.

[Human Sequencer]

ebwop

Mod, requesting you delete the above post because the content is exactly the same with only slightly modified format, and it's annoying and an eyesore to look at

More importantly, if I was scum there's no way I would risk letting Locust live/inspect last night considering I was his biggest scum read through all of yesterday so there's a good chance he would inspect me.

That's valid, but not enough to 100% win me over.

What's the case on me? I don't understand how I'm a pretty consistent scumread despite being on the jackel wagon almost from the word go and doing nothing but scumhunt (yesterday successfully) and townhunt all day.

Also what's the case on howard? He should be lock town at this point for the reasons I pointed out in post 607
I mean I get it if you disagree w/ my reads for some reason but please at least address it and let me know so we can talk and mull it over, it'll help us all get closer to finding the right lynch.

and then after when i say im also fine with a jackel lynch. granted, i remembered having more involvement than i did. human being on the wagon that early helps him. howard and hm not being on it period is awful.

I fell into that trap too, Howard -was- on the wagon but left when Jackel claimes tracker (480). He gives valid reason for doing this-- Locust hadn't confirmed nor denied his cop status at the time, and Howard wasn't sure whether to trust Rai's word.

My read on Josh is like 80% gut, but it's incredibly powerful gut.

[Hellfire Missile]

This is all is gonna be shit but i'm going to get lynched anyway so why the fuck not.

Also gonna be either scum or town because don't wanna get into the details too much

Huntress: Town
Not alota information to go off of, i think she's waiting for more information to vote. Clear-headed, (coldly?) logical, could easily sway town to vote her way (maybe not locust idk)
I just don't feel she's scum

morelater (maybe on huntress because i feel like that was too short)

not sarcastic: is this a joke?

fuck you

im trying you fuck

[Hellfire Missile]

This is all is gonna be shit but i'm going to get lynched anyway so why the fuck not.

Also gonna be either scum or town because don't wanna get into the details too much

Huntress: Town
Not alota information to go off of, i think she's waiting for more information to vote. Clear-headed, (coldly?) logical, could easily sway town to vote her way (maybe not locust idk)
I just don't feel she's scum

morelater (maybe on huntress because i feel like that was too short)

not sarcastic: is this a joke?

fuck you

im trying you fuck

I even said that it's gonna be shit but here you are shitting all over my day

fuck you

[Joshz]

Dude

We established huntress is literally 100% town and your fucking reads post is reading huntress as probably town? That's all you fucking have? There's a difference between bad reads and no effort ones. I will shit on your day again and again if your singular read is a probably town read on a conftown. If you legitimately are that bad after 3 games, idk what to tell you, I recommend you find an experienced player to hydra with. It'll help a lot because clearly you aren't learning with your current method. So fuck you, not fuck me.

[HowardRoark]

@Human Sequencer: Thank you. Very helpful.

@Joshz: Jackel98's post about you being the doctor is something that caught my eye. Why are you pointing it out?

Doc will not claim until necessary. Locust will not announce the investigation target. If Hellfire Missile is town troll, it doesn't matter if the PL is today or tomorrow, we still end up in LyLo if we mislynch the other. If we're going to PL, I'd rather do it today and remove the distraction from tomorrow's discussion. I feel that Joshz or Human Sequencer are more likely scum. I'm having a tough time leaning either way on Sobolev Space.

UNVOTE: Human Sequencer
VOTE: Joshz

He was able to shake my suspicion yesterday but his "I'm obv town" shouts have me concerned once again.

[Sobolev Space]

Not gonna use direct quotes because I don't have a ton of time but here are some thoughts.

@Sequencer post 636: Case on you is mostly from suspicions people like Howard or Loopdan had yesterday. I'll admit I had a bit of a bias against you because I looked through your posts today and found nothing that looked suspicious. You're a null read for me right now.

Case on Howard is mainly from my arguments in post 617. There aren't many people who would let Locust live/inspect last night on purpose.

@HM: Disregard Joshz for now. The reason analysis of Huntress's posting isn't very productive is that Locust has already (essentially) claimed cop and said Huntress is confirmed town based on an inspection last night. The current pool of non alignment confirmed players (excluding you) is me, Joshz, Sequencer, and Howard. Please continue your comments on any of us four.

@Joshz post 626. Having wrong reads by itself is NAI. Having wrong reads for bad reasons is alignment indicative. Keep in mind that town consensus at that point was that DayRai's claim was non serious as Sequencer says in post 266 and I myself even said that I would consider recanting my vote if we got to L-1 and Locust repeated the claim in post 410. Kinda suspicious that only now you think me voting Locust after DayRai claimed cop is scummy considering you defended me for it in post 407.

[Joshz]

@Human Sequencer: Thank you. Very helpful.

@Joshz: Jackel98's post about you being the doctor is something that caught my eye. Why are you pointing it out?

Doc will not claim until necessary. Locust will not announce the investigation target. If Hellfire Missile is town troll, it doesn't matter if the PL is today or tomorrow, we still end up in LyLo if we mislynch the other. If we're going to PL, I'd rather do it today and remove the distraction from tomorrow's discussion. I feel that Joshz or Human Sequencer are more likely scum. I'm having a tough time leaning either way on Sobolev Space.

UNVOTE: Human Sequencer
VOTE: Joshz

He was able to shake my suspicion yesterday but his "I'm obv town" shouts have me concerned once again.

i asked what it meant because it seems like nonsensical garbage and he's supposed to be an se.

i am obvtown but i gave up on this game a long time ago so idc, two useless ics and three ses who i wont comment on till i see flips, what a load of garbage. and you are literally agreeing with me in that the policy lynch should be today but what ever man idc

[Joshz]

@Human Sequencer: Thank you. Very helpful.

@Joshz: Jackel98's post about you being the doctor is something that caught my eye. Why are you pointing it out?

Doc will not claim until necessary. Locust will not announce the investigation target. If Hellfire Missile is town troll, it doesn't matter if the PL is today or tomorrow, we still end up in LyLo if we mislynch the other. If we're going to PL, I'd rather do it today and remove the distraction from tomorrow's discussion. I feel that Joshz or Human Sequencer are more likely scum. I'm having a tough time leaning either way on Sobolev Space.

UNVOTE: Human Sequencer
VOTE: Joshz

He was able to shake my suspicion yesterday but his "I'm obv town" shouts have me concerned once again.

i asked what it meant because it seems like nonsensical garbage and he's supposed to be an se.

i am obvtown but i gave up on this game a long time ago so idc, two useless ics and three ses who i wont comment on till i see flips, what a load of garbage. and you are literally agreeing with me in that the policy lynch should be today but what ever man idc

[Joshz]

Not gonna use direct quotes because I don't have a ton of time but here are some thoughts.

@Sequencer post 636: Case on you is mostly from suspicions people like Howard or Loopdan had yesterday. I'll admit I had a bit of a bias against you because I looked through your posts today and found nothing that looked suspicious. You're a null read for me right now.

Case on Howard is mainly from my arguments in post 617. There aren't many people who would let Locust live/inspect last night on purpose.

@HM: Disregard Joshz for now. The reason analysis of Huntress's posting isn't very productive is that Locust has already (essentially) claimed cop and said Huntress is confirmed town based on an inspection last night. The current pool of non alignment confirmed players (excluding you) is me, Joshz, Sequencer, and Howard. Please continue your comments on any of us four.

@Joshz post 626. Having wrong reads by itself is NAI. Having wrong reads for bad reasons is alignment indicative. Keep in mind that town consensus at that point was that DayRai's claim was non serious as Sequencer says in post 266 and I myself even said that I would consider recanting my vote if we got to L-1 and Locust repeated the claim in post 410. Kinda suspicious that only now you think me voting Locust after DayRai claimed cop is scummy considering you defended me for it in post 407.

i said that to get the focus off of locust and to try to trick the mafia into not killing him, why do you think i was defending him so hard without referencing the cop claim

[Locust]

@ Hellfire Dude do you understand what happened at the start of the day and why a read on Huntress is easy for people? It really seems like you are struggling now is the time to ask for help and not get super angsty and lash out. Because of some very basic mistakes people want to lynch you. I want you to give this a proper shot so we can attempt to get a proper read on you. I am close to jumping on the wagon because your mistakes are not helping town and have probably been our biggest distraction over two days. This is making it easy for scum to hide (assuming you are not scum) and therefore harder for town to catch them. So I am going to ask again do a simple one liner on everyone and say whether you think they are scum town or neutral.

[Locust]

I have been back over Loopdans ISO especially the buts before Jackel claimed. He had his sites seemingly set on Space and Human. So I have been back over to see which of them may have been working with Jackel.

then I remembered this

If jackel and human were both scum I highly doubt they'd buddy this much day 1. Human is more copying jackel than anything

@Joshz Do you think this is enough to clear Human for now and we maybe take another look at Space?

[Joshz]

I reskimmed the thread and saw that, considered commenting. The problem is that scenario was more pointing to jackel being cleared if human were to be scum. But, I agree, it does look good on human. I already quoted a space post recently and called it bad, he's definitely not inno to me anymore. I see reasons any of those 4 could be scum, though, and don't want to clear any of them yet. Howard is the least likely probably but he has annoyed me a lot so bleh bleh bias.

[Huntress]

@ Josh and HM:

I think both of you need to read the first section of post 1.


I've looked over everyone's comments on HM and there seems to be little more said against him than gut and wifom over the night actions. I don't want to see him lynched toDay. (Nothing wrong with gut reads; I just don't see the reason for them in this case.)

I really don't like the way Josh tricked HM into claiming.

I've been analysing the flow of votes from Day one. Based purely on those I'd be looking at SS, Josh, and Human, in that order, but I have a town read on SS (subject to review) so I'm back to my earlier scum read on Josh.

Vote: Josh

[Hellfire Missile]

Dude

We established huntress is literally 100% town and your fucking reads post is reading huntress as probably town? That's all you fucking have? There's a difference between bad reads and no effort ones. I will shit on your day again and again if your singular read is a probably town read on a conftown. If you legitimately are that bad after 3 games, idk what to tell you, I recommend you find an experienced player to hydra with. It'll help a lot because clearly you aren't learning with your current method. So fuck you, not fuck me.

*insert "i didn't see" comment here

sorry