Newbie 1763 | Foreigners of a Person - Happy Ending?

[Titus]

Srceenplay, you need to bold or use vote tags to officially vote.

VOTE: Shannon

I am your IC. My job is to help you find your playstyle and define any terms.

Mlmooney89, I would like a link to your games. Also, roles work differently from site to site. I will take a quick gander to see if that may be true.

[Titus]

You got it there.

IC hat: This stage is called Random voting stage, or RVS for short. I cannot lie to you about how the game works, but I do play to my alignment.

[Titus]

Ok, that website is giving me headaches. Big difference in some sites, jailkept/roleblocked players do not know they are roleblocked unless they lose feedback or a kill goes through that they protected. VTs will not know.

[Titus]

The mafia experience I have is on Starcraft 2. I like playing there and another player mentioned playing mafia on forums. I have played town of Salem but didn't like it as much. I was surprised to see so many different choices for forum games.
What are the rest of new players mafia experiences?
Does anyone ever play on Starcraft?


So concerning this game. Does the mod have a choice who is scum? Is it ever two noobs? Does the mod try to balance it and do a noob and experienced player or all experienced players only?

I played on sc2 before coming here. The longer deadlines fit better wuth my schedule. The roleblocker (if present) does not send a message to the target. Jailkeepers submit during the night and do not create a neighboorhood. Doctors are not notified if their target is healed. I say this to welcome you. I once struggled with the difference. I know this may help if you are scum, but it is an unfair way to be caught.

The mods must select by random. Any combination of players can be scum. It is bastard modding otherwise unless a upick/pick your partners or the mod says so.

[Titus]

Early wagons on day 1 are fine. We don't want lynches to early.

[Titus]

This is odd. Hmmph.

[Titus]

This is odd. Hmmph.

Why is that odd?

Dunno. Doesn't feel right. What's your handle on sc2?

[Titus]

CR?

[Titus]

Titus, are you scum? you have to tell the truth because you are the IC.

I am town.

Yet, being the IC doesn't mean I cannot lie. It means I cannot lie about how the game works.

[Titus]

This is odd. Hmmph.

Why is that odd?

Dunno. Doesn't feel right. What's your handle on sc2?

I play on my sons account. Whemestar

You ever play on their forums?

[Titus]

Shannon thanks for stopping in.
Lol. Back in the day when I was coming up with a name (this was Napster days) screenplay was all ready taken. As I sat there mad about it staring at the monitor I decided this is the new age of computers. I'm going to change what srceenplay is!

Toto you are missing the point or dodging it. If you talked more you would be able to give us a better read on you. I don't understand why not tell us your leads or thoughts on the game. Can you tell me how not sharing your thoughts helps town?

This goes for you as well Titus. Pressure is on Toto now but I would like to hear more of your thought process too.

I don't have very strong thoughts yet.

[Titus]

Notice I said strong thoughts. If I thought the game was dead, I would spark it. These newbie games are about finding what works and what doesn't. Being too vocal as the IC crushes development.

These games are slower, more drawn out than the sc2mod. Patience. Scumhunting is about getting people to reveal their alignment to you.

[Titus]

But how do you do that?

[Titus]

Ic mode: L minus 1 means 1 more vote and Toto is lynched.

I am not a fan of this wagon but players should claim at l minus one. (There is an alternate theory that says wait for intent, but I don't like it.)

[Titus]

Do you think I should claim this early Titus?

Yes. I don't like it but you are l minus 1.

[Titus]

Screenplay is town, most likely.

[Titus]

Krylea was actually my biggest town read so far.

I am glad to see you adding context to the game now Toto. Even though it's not exactly what I was wanting to hear.

I think I have a feel on some scum, but I want to continue to watch the conversations, see how a few people interact together. I still need to hear more.

Do you think I should claim this early Titus?

Yes. I don't like it but you are l minus 1.

Why do you not like the L minus 1 vote?
Are we not supposed to pressure someone until the break and talk?
What would you have done differently to get more information out of Toto or someone else?

Titus I can't find where you answered this. Could you point me to that post? I know you said to much IC talk slows development but with not enough does that hurt your trustablity.

For now I am going to try this.
VOTE: Titus

I will just reanswer because lazy.

I didn't like Toto at l minus 1 because the wagon felt slimy. It felt wrong. Toto wasn't obvious town but they were not scummy.

[Titus]

@Screenplay, Speed of wagon mostly and that I couldn't find a reason. My own personal feelings without support shouldn't block ideal play.

[Titus]

VC please

[Titus]

Hey. Will read Monday.

[Titus]

My router died and I just fixed it. I am here now. We will lynch today.

[Titus]

Ok, first things first, I don't feel great about Shannon, almost as if they're avoiding me. The action around their wagon is suspect. We can look to see who is NOT put at L minus 1. Claims happen at l minus 1 and claiming boxes scum in. They'd have a free rolefish if she was town.

Right now, I definitely want a wagon on Shannon.

[Titus]

Ok, first things first, I don't feel great about Shannon, almost as if they're avoiding me. The action around their wagon is suspect. We can look to see who is NOT put at L minus 1. Claims happen at l minus 1 and claiming boxes scum in. They'd have a free rolefish if she was town.

Right now, I definitely want a wagon on Shannon.

Why not Arrow?
Why not Mooney?

Titus I feel like you are trolling us and we are letting you get away with it because you are the IC. I mean do you really not have anything more to add about the Shannon Mooney wagon? What about arrows behavior?

They vagueness you are bringing us almost seems like a distraction.

Shannon was the first. Mooney and Arrow wagons are distractions. Mooney seems more of playstyle, I hate walls wagon. Arrow seems to be a vindictive lurker wagon, offered only after scum Shannon got wagoned.

[Titus]

Shannon, you're far too passive, as if you don't want me to see you. Wagons sprout up to protect you, yet no one actually is townreading you. You're waiting on things. Given the claim at l minus 1 rule, it's surprising you were not made to claim. That's likely because you are scum.

[Titus]

Different site metas and different setups process claims differently. Here, we do not want to lynch power roles. Scum are not likely to claim power roles until absolutely needed, so a power role claim gets us another lynch essentially.

[Titus]

But how do you know if someone claims VT that they are VT? Does that claim just make everything nil and the point moot? After a power role is claimed and verified do we try and save the power role with another power role over night?

Yeah, a power role would be protected (if possible). If someone claims VT, they may still be scum. We keep scumhunting.

[Titus]

Alright, cool cool. Thanks for explaining it that makes sense that with such a structured set up we could save them still, especially on day one. Are the bigger, more bastard games also like this or do they get more complex in their claiming?

More complex. I tend to be a setup nerd. Feel free to crash a dead chat in a game I died in (pm the mod), if you want more setup help relevant to other games.

[Titus]

But how do you know if someone claims VT that they are VT? Does that claim just make everything nil and the point moot? After a power role is claimed and verified do we try and save the power role with another power role over night?

Yeah, a power role would be protected (if possible). If someone claims VT, they may still be scum. We keep scumhunting.

Can you post a link to one of your town games were this has worked?
It would be great if a had an example to read through.

Wake's role madness, large theme

[Titus]

That game looks so large compared to this one. I would think play style and strategy would be completely different.

Do you have a smaller game, preferably a newbie game.

Sort of but not as the IC. Generally, the strategy is agreed upon but someone bungles the execution. :/

[Titus]

Plus, I focus more on having others solve themselves.

[Titus]

Shannon, you're at l minus 1. Time to claim.

[Titus]

@Screenplay, Claim just means the next time they are on. It's implicit. Shorter days demand more immediate responses but we have five days left.

[Titus]

Yeah, if someone hammers before that, they become a policy lynch.

Players that act so anti-town, town cannot allow them in lylo.

[Titus]

Umm Shannon, you self hammerred by quote error.

Last reads. Where do you think I went wrong reading you?

UNVOTE: If the mod doesn't count derp vote

[Titus]

Shannon, the mod in within his rights either way on how to treat that. Please give final thoughts.

[Titus]

Well if screenplay is scum, I expect to join you tomorrow.

[Titus]

@Titus
I have been skimming through other games. Most I have seen a role reveal is not given automatically at L-1. It usually comes after someone gives intent to hammer. Is there a reason why you don't wait for the intent to hammer?

Yes, because it is wrong strategy and enables blitz hammers.

[Titus]

Last reads. Where do you think I went wrong reading you?

I'm reading this over and over because I have a weird feeling about this, and I think I finally get why.

Why would you ask someone how you misread them at this particular moment when you are about to learn their alignment? how does that help you find scum or town from the remaining players depending on her flip?

VOTE: Titus

That's the time to ask. Shannon's derp self hammer appeared really townie. That meant I was wrong and I want to know why.

[Titus]

But why do you care about more than knowing who she thinks is town or scum? Seems like a waste of precious time during twilight. You can always ask her after the game.

Because if she's town that helps recalibrate my reads and if she's scum sets up investigation.

Always get info from dead men.

[Titus]

@Titus
I have been skimming through other games. Most I have seen a role reveal is not given automatically at L-1. It usually comes after someone gives intent to hammer. Is there a reason why you don't wait for the intent to hammer?

Yes, because it is wrong strategy and enables blitz hammers.

You told me when I posted to everyone to have caution and give Shannon time to answer because of time difference, don't worry everyone knows that. People don't blitz hammer. That would be a policy lynch.

In a newbie queue or anywhere, do not enable bad play, even if infrequent.

[Titus]

Because if she's town that helps recalibrate my reads and if she's scum sets up investigation.

But it seems you are asking her to help you clarify your read on HER. Which is useless given that she is about to flip and you will know anyway.

In any case, you now seemed convinced she is town, even before you asked for her clarification because you said her self vote was townie. Can you explain how her self vote is townie? and do you remain convinced of this fact after she clarified why you were misreading her for you?

Yes, she is town. Scum generally don't hammer themselves by accident.

[Titus]

So if it was an accident she is town but if it wasn't she is scum?

Yup. I have never seen a scum accidently self hammer.

[Titus]

I'm going to be AFK for a wee bit out of ordinary. (Finals today and tomorrow).

I just want everyone to know I'm against this Shaggin(Shannon) Wagon.

I agree in the idea of a harsh rule of Krylea being scummy.

Rephrase this last sentence please.

[Titus]

I do not know yet. Otherwise, I would be voting them.

[Titus]

Okay this whole claiming right before you get lynched is a joke. We might as well just go in a circle and claim. That's what this game is boiling down to. Wagon on Toto? Claim, Wagon on Shannon? Claim... and so on and so forth. In the end we have outed our power roles and have a bunch of VT claims. So now we lynch one of the VT's (cause you know now that we got the PR's out of the way we have less to pick from) But hey now scum can pick from our PR's to kill and we can protect those that we can. Then we line those VT's back up and lynch one again so that scum takes another power role. This can't seriously be how all the games are outside of newbie games... is it? This whole lining up our wagons, waiting for a claim, then rewagoning crap is getting exhausting.

VOTE: Mlmooney

Running out of mislynches? Yes, we wagon, assess the claim and move forward. If the group believes the slot is town, we lynch someone else.

If any single slot wagons everyone and their brother but buys every claim, that's hard data of scum influence.

[Titus]

We claim after L-1 AND intent to hammer from now on. If target is VT we lynch them.

Wow, mass rebellion against an IC and accusing me of cheating for telling you how to play. I have to tell the truth.

[Titus]

Same difference. Mechanics are theory. The guide to being a good IC explains what I can and cannot do. I cannot advise to do dumb things because others have done it.

For the record, everyone but money, kyrea, and E is town.

[Titus]

@titus

With your IC hat can you tell me that in noobie games the optimal strategy is to get someone to L-1 force them to claim role before some one had intent to hammer. Do it fast before scum rushes the hammer?

Yes. I 100% believe that. Intent to hammer is garbage recent development.

[Titus]

Titus is at L minus 1.

Titus explain again your town read on Shannon. And everyone else for that matter.

No body hammers without posting intent to hammer and have everyone else in the wagon agree to it first. That is only if anyone else thinks Titus is mafia.

I already explained my townread on Shannon. The self hammer derp likely comes from town.

Toto is town because of the creepy wagon.
Screenplay is obvtown.
I am town because role PM.

Arrow hasn't done much but what he has done is useful. As a social psychology analyzer, I generally start slower and get steam later.
Fruitsman is vla, but still gathering useful analysis.

By PoE, scum need to be in the last 3.

If I am right that Shannon and toto are both town, then there is 1-2 mislynches available for scum. Given there are always 2 power roles, 5vts, and 2 scum fucks.

[Titus]

*So I understand why Arrow doesn't like d1.

[Titus]

No. I am not allowed to mislead as to optimal strategy. My duty is to play optimally, tell you what optimal play is, and tell you what site meta is. I want you to have fun and understand everything. I cannot win by deliberately musleading you or failing to correct you.

[Titus]

No. I do not agree with either. A is accurate except I am interested in the game. I can be interested in the game without people understanding what I am saying.

Voting Shannon is a mistake btw.

[Titus]

I have never been a scum IC.

[Titus]

No. I do not agree with either. A is accurate except I am interested in the game. I can be interested in the game without people understanding what I am saying.

So, you have been interested and engaged the whole time and haven't mislead anyone as to strategy...but have also seen that several players interpreted your statements as "wagon people until they claim then repeat" and never corrected them. What gives?

Voting Shannon is a mistake btw.

You seem to be the only one that thinks so. And you still haven't given any good reasons beyond gut.

I did correct that.

Reads, Wagon, claim, assess. That's the process.

Shannon's self vote clearing her isn't gut.

[Titus]

Guys I've asked to be replaced. I'm not playing anymore.

Sorry to hear that. I enjoyed the little time we had.

Ditto.

[Titus]

Welcome Grey.

[Titus]

I think the way she townread me seemed genuine. And I was under fire and she did not have to do that.

What you're referring to is whiteknighting. Townreading someone without a reason to do so is quite scummy actually. :/

[Titus]

I'll just wait for you to catch up Grey. I'll be here with my goose.

[Titus]

Different site metas and different setups process claims differently. Here, we do not want to lynch power roles. Scum are not likely to claim power roles until absolutely needed, so a power role claim gets us another lynch essentially.

A power role claim also gets us a dead pr.

Not always.

If the PR doesn't claim, dead to lynch.
The PR claims, high priority night kill target, but we might lynch scum.

[Titus]

People don't blitz hammer.

Yes people do. It's called lolhammering and people are often townread for doing it.

Crazy, I know.

Not by me, unless it hits scum and even then it's more null read. They are policy lynches.

[Titus]

People don't blitz hammer.

Yes people do. It's called lolhammering and people are often townread for doing it.

Crazy, I know.

Not by me, unless it hits scum and even then it's more null read. They are policy lynches.

Out of all the games I have read on this website, I have seen loads of things

called

policy lynches, but almost noone actually get lynched for it after doing them. Advocating for a policy lynch often seems to be considered a scumtell by a lot of people.

Well, I treat a policy lynch as "cannot be alive in lylo". It's not an immediate thing. So yeah, sometimes they live. Each player treats policy lynches differently. When I say it, I'd kill them at anytime and probably vote park them at lylo minus one day.

[Titus]

Actually I forgot about Row three.

UNVOTE:

That's still a fucked up assertion though.

Actually, you're right. There is one where there is no second PR. I forgot this revision.

[Titus]

No. I am not allowed to mislead as to optimal strategy. My duty is to play optimally, tell you what optimal play is, and tell you what site meta is. I want you to have fun and understand everything. I cannot win by deliberately musleading you or failing to correct you.

Sir meta is to claim on L-1

with intent

, but you have directly avoided explaining that.

Why?

I have and you'll find I repeat that over and over again.

Site meta is suboptimal. I am obligated to instruct on optimal play, not what lemmings find popular.

[Titus]

It's a recent position I take based on the rise of derp hammers, so no I cannot. It used to be that we could wait for intent to hammer, but some players just hammer anything at L minus 1.

[Titus]

It's a recent position I take based on the rise of derp hammers, so no I cannot. It used to be that we could wait for intent to hammer, but some players just hammer anything at L minus 1.

So you only just recently decided this is optimal? How recent?

1-2 months ago give or take.

[Titus]

Ok. Let's go about it a different way. What would be the motive to post anti town?

Personality. Playstyle.

Not liking somebody's play is not sufficient grounds to kill them.

Lynching people on the basis that you don't like how they play is a fast track to losing.

This.

I'd be lynching most of the thread if that was the standard.

[Titus]

I agree with gray on not lynching anti town. Then point is that anti town posting doesn't mean town either.

In this case the scum motivation is to pretend you don't care anymore about life hard enough we all believe you. And thats the gut feeling I get from Shannon's attitude.

Im not sure I buy the case on elhabe. But I want to see them scumhunting.

Yeah, the self hammer was a quote error, not a convoluted scheme to appear town.

[Titus]

These games are meant for self-discovery and to have an IC tell you the ideal play. That means we don't lynch for anti-town, only for pro-scum unless we have to.

[Titus]

Most likely town in the newbie queue, but you're not supposed to do that though.

[Titus]

In other news, it's ridiculous that we already have two claims in d1.

This means that we are likely to out three claims before the day ends.

We are giving scum three chances to uncover a PR on d1.

Even if the third claim is VT, that means scum has narrowed the pool of potential PR's to four players.

This has been a foul d1.

100% disagree. Both those slots are town. PRs are overrated. We lynch town, it's a bad day. We hit scum, it's a good day.

[Titus]

No, it isn't.

The only way scum PR fish by those claims is if both Shannon and Toto are town. Having town alive trumps rolefishing.

If they're scum, they cannot CC the PRs.

Win win.

Plus, Elhabe and Kyrea are likely scum from it.

[Titus]

Plus, Elhabe and Kyrea are likely scum from it.

How so?

PoE and reactions. I was concerned at start at the jumping on everything that moved. Toto's wagon went far too fast for me to be comfortable. If I was going with current site meta, I would have not had Toto claim. Yet, everything seemed to jump, so a natural starting point is looking at who jumps at everything and who shades and who lurks.

Screenplay doesn't fit. He has been selective, but frustrated.
You don't fit.
Shannon obviously isn't scum.
I am town.
Toto is likely town.
Fruitsman hasn't been here that much but what appears is good.
Arrow hasn't been jumping onto anyone but Krylea...so he's not the scum voter.

[Titus]

Right. Not disputing that, but Arrow being scum going against the scum wagoning for roles theory.

[Titus]

VOTE: Mlmooney

Running out of mislynches? Yes, we wagon, assess the claim and move forward. If the group believes the slot is town, we lynch someone else.

If any single slot wagons everyone and their brother but buys every claim, that's hard data of scum influence.

Hrm.

You don't fit.

Hrm.

So. Did you change your mind? If so, why?

The sub out. Reads more frustrated town than scum caught with hand in cookie jar.

[Titus]

VOTE: Mlmooney

Running out of mislynches? Yes, we wagon, assess the claim and move forward. If the group believes the slot is town, we lynch someone else.

If any single slot wagons everyone and their brother but buys every claim, that's hard data of scum influence.

Hrm.

You don't fit.

Hrm.

So. Did you change your mind? If so, why?

The sub out. Reads more frustrated town than scum caught with hand in cookie jar.

There is a thread in the Mafia Discussion forum I think you should read. I'll talk to you post-game.

I don't spend much time there, but duly noted. I tend to get carried away in theory.

I like you.

[Titus]

I agree that if there is two scum in {elhabe,arrow,krylea}

Then its probably krylea+elhabe. Both of them voted arrow. Kryleas interaction with elhabe do look like coaching. But both of them going after arrow sheeping each other doesn't add up so early.

So there is a chance the poe is not 100% correct.

There is a chance I am wrong. It is day 1, but my method is all about getting a theory and testing.

[Titus]

I think I am voting there but if I am not...

VOTE: Elhabe

Request VC

[Titus]

Well, I cannot advise or endorse that but I think the group has settled on the suboptimal path.

[Titus]

So on elhabe we are going on lack of information is the information?
I understand what you are saying about her it's just not much there.

Again I will say it is a little off that Krylea began the game strong but when people started questioning her motives her posts have backed down.


And a game question. Does scum have day talk?

Can you rephrase the first question?

No. Scum do not have daytalk.

[Titus]

Yes.

Oh and K's reads are terrible. Grey as scum. Really.

[Titus]

Elhabe is at l minus 1

[Titus]

Elhabe...claim.

[Titus]

Welcome Hellfire...

[Titus]

Sorry I've been so inactive for the past couple days. Just got through the exam season of hell. Anyway, now I should be able to devote my full attention to the game again and hopefully we can actually lynch friggin scum this time. So lets get to it.

Maybe I'm coming off as a broken record, but lets go over this again:

We had a wagon on shannon. It began to disintegrate and Titus/Grey began pushing elhabe. Elhabe got lynched and hammered before claiming - as a result, we lost our JK.

How did the wagon on elhabe start? Grey replaced in, Titus

instantly flipped from voting and scumreading that slot to hard townreading it with no explanation

, and the two of them suddenly pushed the elhabe wagon out of nowhere. See posts 277, 300, 456, 457, and 473.

Oh, and now we have this:

Well, that sucked, sorry town

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't opening a day after a town mislynch with something along the lines of "well, that sucked" a really common scumtell?

We need to look within {shannon, Titus, Grey}

. They are all acting scummy as fuck and I could easily see any two of those three being the scumteam (though mostly likely shannon and one of the others).

I'm tempted to start with shannon, but for some inexplicable fucking reason noone else seems to see how scummy she is, so I won't waste my breath. Fortunately, there's plenty else to go on. Why is it so hard to get a wagon on shannon? Because our wonderful IC Titus derailed her wagon (...

after getting her to claim

) and keeps on pushing her hard townread because of the accidental self-vote. So I think I'm going to start with:

VOTE: Titus

It is a common scum indicator. You know what I find a stronger indicator? Claiming something as a scumtell and not voting that person.

VOTE: Krylea

[Titus]

You kept trying to mislynch town, so when new evidence comes up...you move to another town.

Most players when new evidence arises will pursue their scumread if genuine. You're looking for who you can lynch.

[Titus]

No. We are lynching you or your partner, most likely. I just don't know who that is yet.

Why are you trying to pidegonhole conversation, rather than letting people discuss naturally?

[Titus]

No. We are lynching you or your partner, most likely. I just don't know who that is yet.

Why are you trying to pidegonhole conversation, rather than letting people discuss naturally?

You are doing the same thing she is doing.

Can you share other scum reads you have?

I am resetting those but I lean towards the Hellfire slot

[Titus]

No. We are lynching you or your partner, most likely. I just don't know who that is yet.

Why are you trying to pidegonhole conversation, rather than letting people discuss naturally?

You are doing the same thing she is doing.

Can you share other scum reads you have?

I am resetting those but I lean towards the Hellfire slot

This means you think the wagon on elhabe was 100% town.

If that is correct, yes.

[Titus]

Yeah, pretty fine with my vote at the moment.

Anyone have a townread on K or Hawk?

[Titus]

Hey while we're at it, does anyone want to claim Bulletproof? If it goes un-counterclaimed, we know someone is town for at least a couple of Days, assuming that scum even bothers to try NKing them. I think it's better to make such a claim early, rather than in/near LYLO where it's suspect. Thoughts?

Nope. Bp is unconfirmable.

[Titus]

Fucking shit. It's grey and Titus. Guys if Shannon is town. I didn't get a chance to explain my reads but basically I wasn't buying the accidental self hammer d1 or a few other things. I feel like this is my fault for trying to juggle Christmas stuff and writing out my reads!

Aw, you're so cute.

So panicky.

So adorable.

So town.

Nah, that's probably scum flail.

It is 100% krylea.

[Titus]

Titus, calling Hawk scum flailing doesn't make any sense at all unless you think he's flailing to protect his partner, but that isn't the case because he's on the Shannon wagon which is the only one going on atm.

Unless you're scumreading Shannon, there's no way you should see his post as scum flail, but you're scumreading him and krylea.

It doesn't add up.

Scum can flail without having votes placed on them or their partner. When they start to feel out of control or something is going wrong, they get disproportionally upset. Thar's what I am calling scumflail.

[Titus]

Fucking shit. It's grey and Titus. Guys if Shannon is town. I didn't get a chance to explain my reads but basically I wasn't buying the accidental self hammer d1 or a few other things. I feel like this is my fault for trying to juggle Christmas stuff and writing out my reads!

This doesn't read like someone in control. It's fake, over the top. Rushed.

This post doesn't give w his vote on Shannon. He's not acting confident in his vote at all.

[Titus]

Fucking shit. It's grey and Titus. Guys if Shannon is town. I didn't get a chance to explain my reads but basically I wasn't buying the accidental self hammer d1 or a few other things. I feel like this is my fault for trying to juggle Christmas stuff and writing out my reads!

This doesn't read like someone in control. It's fake, over the top. Rushed.

This post doesn't give w his vote on Shannon. He's not acting confident in his vote at all.

Context, Titus.

He thought I hammered and he was rushing to get his reads out before the mod locked the thread.

That post was 2 hours after your fake hammer. He was catching up and would have known.

[Titus]

titus you are saying the reaction is fake (and deliberate) and out of control in the same sentece

Yes.

[Titus]

I will tomorrow or Monday.

[Titus]

Fucking shit. It's grey and Titus. Guys if Shannon is town. I didn't get a chance to explain my reads but basically I wasn't buying the accidental self hammer d1 or a few other things. I feel like this is my fault for trying to juggle Christmas stuff and writing out my reads!

This doesn't read like someone in control. It's fake, over the top. Rushed.

This post doesn't give w his vote on Shannon. He's not acting confident in his vote at all.

After a surprise hammer, it doesn't make sense to one 180 his reads. It's more like trying to explain why he's on a town wagon and never corrected. Yet, he doesn't unvote now given the chance to do so.

I am fully down for Kyrelea/Hawk. My vote goes to whichever has more votes.

[Titus]

Shannon, I was actually scumreading you. You derpcleared yourself (one of the few I grant). Stop being dumb and having town fight each other.

@Krylea, I am not cutting off conversation like you tried to do.

[Titus]

You derpcleared yourself

How so?

The self vote accident

[Titus]

You derpcleared yourself

How so?

The self vote accident

Screwing up quote tags does not clear anyone.

It does here.

Dude, stop voting town.

[Titus]

You'd thing Shannon would vote me here as scum, knowing it would make them prime lynch material for tomorrow? No

[Titus]

Making a mistake does not confirm shannon as town.

You cannot say that she would be incapable of fucking up quote tags as scum.

Seriously, learn the definition of mistake.

Seriously, scum wouldn't almost derp hammer themselves while saying that's bad in the same post.

Move on. Please. It's frustrating to keep hearing people be wrong on Shannon when Hawk and Krylea are just obviously not sorting anyone since go Grey.

We're turning on each other instead of voting scum.

[Titus]

Shannon appears scummy as town, but she is not incompetent.

[Titus]

VOTE: Hawk

[Titus]

Shannon appears scummy as town, but she is not incompetent.

You keep on repeating this but you have never given an actual good reason why scum is any less likely to fuck up quote tags than town is.

Scum are not going to implode their entire argument by derp hammering themselves.

The reason isn't "good" for you because your PM is red and it's the thing you harp on to appear busy.

[Titus]

Shannon appears scummy as town, but she is not incompetent.

You keep on repeating this but you have never given an actual good reason why scum is any less likely to fuck up quote tags than town is.

Scum are not going to implode their entire argument by derp hammering themselves.

The reason isn't "good" for you because your PM is red and it's the thing you harp on to appear busy.

Hang on, this heavily implies you think the self-hammer was deliberate. The rest of us have been assuming it was accidental. Why do you think it was deliberate?

No. I am saying scum wouldn't make that kind of mistake.

[Titus]

Welcome jdw.

[Titus]

Everyone today should claim vt, even any hypothetical bp.

[Titus]

Well, shake up your reads in advance then please, because I'm town town x

Convince me Shannon... Because here's the thing... you and I don't see eye to eye. I know my PM is Green. If yours is Green too that makes me firmly believe that the camp is somewhere in Titus, JDW, Grey. The only problem is correct me if I'm wrong. You are now town reading Titus which puts us to JDW and Grey which is joy a world I'm can see happening...

Who is scum if you're town. Cause I know I am so if you're town too then you gotta show me how you me and Titus can all be town and who scum is.

Nope. It's you and K.

[Titus]

Titus, how is shannon a townread? Walk me through it.

I have repeatedly.

Scum don't undermine their entire argument by a fake hammer.

P.s. notice how Hawk and Krylea have each other as null but never vote each other. That's how scumbuddies talk to each other.

The only consensus I intend to join is those two.

[Titus]

Yeah, K and Hawk.

I refuse to mislynch Shannon, they put me at l minus 1 and disregard clearing evidence based on my years of experience.

[Titus]

Yeah, K and Hawk.

I refuse to mislynch Shannon, they put me at l minus 1 and disregard clearing evidence based on my years of experience.

[Titus]

Titus claim?

Like I said before, every slot claims vt here.

[Titus]

OK then, let's move toward this: VOTE: Krylea

VOTE: Krylea

[Titus]

Like, I am getting hammered by K unless you Unvote and then you mislynch Shannon. Gg.

[Titus]

Well no actual BP should claim BP here cause even if Scum CC BP claim when you flip we know who you Lynch...

?

You do not claim bp, because a no death confirms the bp

[Titus]

Well almost confirms...

[Titus]

Of course.

Everyone claims vt. Thus I do.

[Titus]

Fine I'll take your earlier post as a VT claim.

If you are BP you claim for the following reasons and scenarios and how they play out.

You actually are BP
Claim no CC I unvote. We lynch Shannon, Krylea, or JDW most likely.
Claim with CC. we lynch you and you flip BP we lynch CC claim tomorrow hopefully we have a good read going into 2v1 Lylo.

You are scum and claim BP
You would only claim if you know there is no BP cause otherwise your claim gets CC'd.
I unvote. We lynch hopefully second Scum if we miss 2v3 Lylo in which you are heavily favored. This is the most unfortunate scenario but it's not the end of the world We just have to reevaluate our reads if we hit 2v3 lylo.

PEdit: Okay so as my IC where is the flaw in my logic?

If bp, you shred optimal utility of role, scum speculate oooh no roleblocker and mislynch anyway.

If jailkeeper was alive, your analysis would be correct.

[Titus]

Mostly because he could have hammered Shannon at any fucking time but didn't but when we switch to Titus he comes in and tries to Hammer immediately for Day end? Can you at least see how that's very scummy...

I can...:/

[Titus]

Krylea, Jdw?

[Titus]

Rephrase please?

Hawk, have you considered JDW scum wants a fast hammer because of who the counter is?

[Titus]

Yeah this right here. I think that if Shannon doesn't derpclear and fuck up the BBCode that she gets lynched D1 and we flip her as Scum. If she Flips as town then we have most likely Elhabe left and we're in a similar situation where we are possibly leaning one of them. This puts us to a point where I think fruits slot is possibly Scum. But Shannon making it through d1 by the seat of her pants hasn't to me stated anything that couldn't be clever scum taking advantage of a lucky break.

She gets mislynched as town.

It's K and JDW.

I am never ever voting Shannon. I will no lynch before that happens. The thing is you refuse to listen.

[Titus]

@Hawk. I think you misunderstood Shannon. She was talking about we joining the elhabe wagon. Which she never explained why she was voting that way.

@Jwd. Why did you want to end the day?

@shannon. Why did you unvote titus? Why are you voting krylea?

@titus.
Krylea doesn't need to come out on D2 throwing punches if she is scum. Jailkeeper is dead and mafia is in a very good spot to sit back and relax since we have no investigative prs.

Also, you had cleared arrow+elhabe because elhabe voted arrow. Krylea voted arrow too, and was the one that created that wagon. Why didn't you clear that pair until recently?

Strategy is NAI. Inconsistencies suggest scum.

If K did not swing, they would be scum. They try to break up the two towns townreading each other, and then lynch the other in lylo.

[Titus]

Welp, Krylea gg scum.

[Titus]

Yeah, why the fuck won't town vote scum?

[Titus]

I am the last person you should be asking!

I need something to get through to them. So why did we fail?

[Titus]

We are lynching titus tomorrow regardless of how this flips.

And unless I am horribly wrong somewhere, that is the game.

[Titus]

It wasn't, but a good IC knows derp from scum.

New town mistake derp for scum.

[Titus]

Not voting. I need to reassess somethings. That kill was subpar for almost any scumteam.

[Titus]

There's a problem with that theory or anyone really.

Why would scum shoot Toto when Toto was going to vote me, full stop?

[Titus]

Hey Grey, why should I townread you?

[Titus]

Ok, everyone scumreads JDW. A planned bus really doesn't nake sense at this point of the game.

[Titus]

I am understanding the jdw scumreads and am scumreading his play.

Yet, today is lylo. 2 scum alive. 3 town players.

Either jdw is being bussed in lylo or they are town.

[Titus]

Yeah. I am one of the few off the cuff scum players.


I was this close but when I saw grey was the partner, turbo lynch.