Newbie 1763 | Foreigners of a Person - Happy Ending?

[Titus]

My router died and I just fixed it. I am here now. We will lynch today.

[Elhabe21]

If we can get one solid wagon we can analyze it. THEN we can determine who looked scummy on that and go back and look at toto's wagon. His won't be as definite because we don't KNOW he is town but with as many as us thinking he is it will help. Shannon and arrow both have two votes now. Please pick out of the two and start a real wagon. I beg of you, this day one is almost never ending!

I agree with this also, but will everyone be willing to?

[Titus]

Ok, first things first, I don't feel great about Shannon, almost as if they're avoiding me. The action around their wagon is suspect. We can look to see who is NOT put at L minus 1. Claims happen at l minus 1 and claiming boxes scum in. They'd have a free rolefish if she was town.

Right now, I definitely want a wagon on Shannon.

[Srceenplay]

Ok, first things first, I don't feel great about Shannon, almost as if they're avoiding me. The action around their wagon is suspect. We can look to see who is NOT put at L minus 1. Claims happen at l minus 1 and claiming boxes scum in. They'd have a free rolefish if she was town.

Right now, I definitely want a wagon on Shannon.

Why not Arrow?
Why not Mooney?

Titus I feel like you are trolling us and we are letting you get away with it because you are the IC. I mean do you really not have anything more to add about the Shannon Mooney wagon? What about arrows behavior?

They vagueness you are bringing us almost seems like a distraction.

[Titus]

Ok, first things first, I don't feel great about Shannon, almost as if they're avoiding me. The action around their wagon is suspect. We can look to see who is NOT put at L minus 1. Claims happen at l minus 1 and claiming boxes scum in. They'd have a free rolefish if she was town.

Right now, I definitely want a wagon on Shannon.

Why not Arrow?
Why not Mooney?

Titus I feel like you are trolling us and we are letting you get away with it because you are the IC. I mean do you really not have anything more to add about the Shannon Mooney wagon? What about arrows behavior?

They vagueness you are bringing us almost seems like a distraction.

Shannon was the first. Mooney and Arrow wagons are distractions. Mooney seems more of playstyle, I hate walls wagon. Arrow seems to be a vindictive lurker wagon, offered only after scum Shannon got wagoned.

[fruitsman]

Can I get an updated vote count?

[Toto]

Ill post later today.

[Toto]

Also, D1 discussions lead to lot of confusion. I prefer staying out of them unless I find something very scummy on D1.

Krylea is trying to distract us, and that is working. Come on people, we need her out of the way.

This means you find Krylea very scummy.

[Srceenplay]

Ok, first things first, I don't feel great about Shannon, almost as if they're avoiding me. The action around their wagon is suspect. We can look to see who is NOT put at L minus 1. Claims happen at l minus 1 and claiming boxes scum in. They'd have a free rolefish if she was town.

Right now, I definitely want a wagon on Shannon.

Sorry. I'm not understanding this post.
Are you saying you don't like Shannon?
Are you saying you don't like her wagon?
Are you saying don't reveal role at L-1?


I think maybe it's to early for me to wake up and try to read through these posts.

[Srceenplay]

Can I get an updated vote count?

Creature just posted a vote count. I think the only change would be Mooney unvoted Shannon.

[Srceenplay]

And then voted Arrow

[shannon]

I've quoted four or five posts asking questions to me/commenting about me, and answered them. Spoilering because it has created a giant post, please read if you're at all interested x

PEdit: I've somehow mucked up the formatting and only part of this is spoilered, and part of Fruitsy's post is out of quotes whoops.

Spoiler:

If Arrow was scum I would think he would jump on one of these two wagons instead of trying to take heat off of them. Unless Arrow is the scum number 2 and he is worried that he partner is about to be lynched. Personally I think he is uninterested town. He has already said that they are not following forgot names and is confused.

So with one day Shannon and Mooney go from voting each other then with the lack of other people commenting they find enough evidence amongst themselves to unvote each other? Am I reading that right?

You make an interesting point about Arrow's behaviour but I see it differently. Trying to take heat off someone you know will flip town is a good way for scum to look town the next day. So I would like some evidence from Arrow as to

why

he thinks these reasons are wrong.

Faking confusion as a newbie is also a good scum tactic, but it will only get you so far so best to develop some more tactics as you play.

If I were scum with Arrow (or anyone, really), there's no way I'd have him try to defend me. I've played about 10 times here (give or take) and been lynched only once, and that was in 3P LYLO where the other townie was waaaay too quick to vote and scum hammered. I've won both times I've been scum.

I won't speak for Mooney, but yes, I got enough from our interaction to town read her. Her complete stubbornness in the face of fairly harsh criticism reads as honest town confidence to me. Scum would be too worried about not being liked/being caught in a lie.

•Srceenplay town
•fruitsman MIA?
•krylea town
•Elhabe21 Has a vote, I could use a wagon on for interigation
•Arrowscum- has a vote, ditto
•Toto (SE) town
•shannon (SE) town
•Titus (IC) Null, could use questioning. Won't count the one vote since fruitsman had to be prodded.

To those that have played games on this site, are scum known to be the quiet ones? I've had people fly under the radar saying real life is getting in the way and keeping them busy but they were scum and pulled out with a win.

Sometimes?

If lurking were completely a scum tell, scum would have to stop doing it. For me personally, with the exception of a very big game where there was just so much content and I kept getting lost, I always try to participate as much as I can. I think it's only fair to the other players.

So with one day Shannon and Mooney go from voting each other then with the lack of other people commenting they find enough evidence amongst themselves to unvote each other? Am I reading that right?

Yeah this is suspicious as hell and I still don't like it at all. My only worry is I'm starting to wonder if I've been misreading mooney after rereading her iso. I've been seeing all her posts as scummy as hell since page one, but I'm starting to wonder if its just something about her playstyle that makes her ping as scum to me and is making me tunnel her too hard. I still really didn't like her defensive shannon vote then later unvote though.
And w.r.t shannon, she went to all this effort making a case on mooney and seemed very confident....then unvoted, said she townread mooney with no explanation and tried to form a wagon on elhabe. That's pretty damn suspicious. Certainly makes it easy to see a mooney-shannon scumteam. If, though, she is scum and mooney is town, I could also see it as trying to distract from the conflict between her and mooney so that she could escape attention.

Thoughts? Personally, I definitely think we should lynch within {arrow, shannon, mooney} today.

See above re: my town read on Mooney.

You seem determined to scum read me no matter what, and that's your prerogative. I would ask you to consider, though, whether your read might be mistaken. Can you really see a scum team, day 1, causing a big huge argument between only themselves, and then resolving it with mutual town reads? Does that not seem like a really shitty- not to mention unnecessary - strategy?

I think it is fine for you to scum read one of us for that exchange, but both of us just makes no sense at all.

First off, allow me to apologize for my complete AFK'ness.

Now lemme get into this action! Gotta love the confusion train on this one, folks.

In this spoiler I'm gonna list out all the things I FEEL are weird/wrong with this so far.

Spoiler:

In my meta read of Shannon, I feel that she is playing contrary to when I played with her the first time. This being said, I feel the REASON this is, is because of Krylea taking her spot of this gameplay.

*snippy*

Shannon is acting very calm and in control and as a paranoid townie, I find that suspicious.

The way I see it now is, are we gonna HAMMER or not? We keep chasing each other's tales with it, but I think it's beginning to lose it's effect on "oh no, I'm gonna get lynched," to "I just have to say I'm not scum, and someone will unvote me."

^This idea I think will get a town lynched. And we discussed the "ratio" of lynching and it seems like it's a bad tactic to me. Why should we lose a town to Scum when town is so disadvantaged for this first day?

^This being said. Mooney's disconcern for Shannon's lynch IS concerning to me. What if Shannon is town?

@Shannon, WHY doesn't it concern you?

Well, hopefully I wouldn't be exactly the same from one game to the next. Not least because roles differ one game to the next! Why wouldn't I be calm, and why should I be paranoid?

What do you mean by Krylea taking my spot?

Being lynched doesn't concern me because my team still has an awesome shot of winning without me on it. I am not *that* special.

Ok, first things first, I don't feel great about Shannon, almost as if they're avoiding me. The action around their wagon is suspect. We can look to see who is NOT put at L minus 1. Claims happen at l minus 1 and claiming boxes scum in. They'd have a free rolefish if she was town.

Right now, I definitely want a wagon on Shannon.

Why not Arrow?
Why not Mooney?

Titus I feel like you are trolling us and we are letting you get away with it because you are the IC. I mean do you really not have anything more to add about the Shannon Mooney wagon? What about arrows behavior?

They vagueness you are bringing us almost seems like a distraction.

Shannon was the first. Mooney and Arrow wagons are distractions. Mooney seems more of playstyle, I hate walls wagon. Arrow seems to be a vindictive lurker wagon, offered only after scum Shannon got wagoned.

What do you mean, avoiding you? You haven't been here? If I've missed answering some questions of yours, please feel free to post them again.

[Titus]

Shannon, you're far too passive, as if you don't want me to see you. Wagons sprout up to protect you, yet no one actually is townreading you. You're waiting on things. Given the claim at l minus 1 rule, it's surprising you were not made to claim. That's likely because you are scum.

[mlmooney89]

This has nothing to do with the game just an observation in differences in the different mafia sites. I'm very surprised with the whole claiming thing. In the other sites claiming was almost a unwritten rule not to, especially on day one. I've found it to kill the game because if you are VT you get away with it and most, including scum, would claim it. If you do have a power role you've just exposed yourself to scum. Now they know who to kill over night. Not claiming and not pushing for others to claim was always seen as pro town so you don't paint an arrow on the power roles backs.

[Titus]

Different site metas and different setups process claims differently. Here, we do not want to lynch power roles. Scum are not likely to claim power roles until absolutely needed, so a power role claim gets us another lynch essentially.

[mlmooney89]

But how do you know if someone claims VT that they are VT? Does that claim just make everything nil and the point moot? After a power role is claimed and verified do we try and save the power role with another power role over night?

[krylea]

This has nothing to do with the game just an observation in differences in the different mafia sites. I'm very surprised with the whole claiming thing. In the other sites claiming was almost a unwritten rule not to, especially on day one. I've found it to kill the game because if you are VT you get away with it and most, including scum, would claim it. If you do have a power role you've just exposed yourself to scum. Now they know who to kill over night. Not claiming and not pushing for others to claim was always seen as pro town so you don't paint an arrow on the power roles backs.

I think it is still generally regarded as a bad idea to claim without very good reason, but claiming at L-1 is done to avoid an early lynch on town PRs.

Shannon, you're far too passive, as if you don't want me to see you. Wagons sprout up to protect you, yet no one actually is townreading you. You're waiting on things. Given the claim at l minus 1 rule, it's surprising you were not made to claim. That's likely because you are scum.

This is an interesting point, especially given shannon's failed attempt to push a wagon on elhabe and mooney's unvote on shannon.

All told, I am pretty much on board with a shannon wagon. I have been scumreading shannon for ages now, and if we want to start with her that's fine with me - as long as we lynch mooney right after if shannon flips scum.

VOTE: shannon

That should be L-2, I believe.

[krylea]

But how do you know if someone claims VT that they are VT? Does that claim just make everything nil and the point moot? After a power role is claimed and verified do we try and save the power role with another power role over night?

You don't. But if they claim a PR, especially in an open setup like this, they probably are a PR. And that means that either a) they can be saved or b) even if they can't be, they would have died from the lynch anyway. It makes scum use their shot instead of town wasting a lynch and then scum getting another shot.

[Titus]

But how do you know if someone claims VT that they are VT? Does that claim just make everything nil and the point moot? After a power role is claimed and verified do we try and save the power role with another power role over night?

Yeah, a power role would be protected (if possible). If someone claims VT, they may still be scum. We keep scumhunting.

[mlmooney89]

Alright, cool cool. Thanks for explaining it that makes sense that with such a structured set up we could save them still, especially on day one. Are the bigger, more bastard games also like this or do they get more complex in their claiming?

[Srceenplay]

But how do you know if someone claims VT that they are VT? Does that claim just make everything nil and the point moot? After a power role is claimed and verified do we try and save the power role with another power role over night?

Yeah, a power role would be protected (if possible). If someone claims VT, they may still be scum. We keep scumhunting.

Can you post a link to one of your town games were this has worked?
It would be great if a had an example to read through.

[Titus]

Alright, cool cool. Thanks for explaining it that makes sense that with such a structured set up we could save them still, especially on day one. Are the bigger, more bastard games also like this or do they get more complex in their claiming?

More complex. I tend to be a setup nerd. Feel free to crash a dead chat in a game I died in (pm the mod), if you want more setup help relevant to other games.

[Titus]

But how do you know if someone claims VT that they are VT? Does that claim just make everything nil and the point moot? After a power role is claimed and verified do we try and save the power role with another power role over night?

Yeah, a power role would be protected (if possible). If someone claims VT, they may still be scum. We keep scumhunting.

Can you post a link to one of your town games were this has worked?
It would be great if a had an example to read through.

Wake's role madness, large theme

[Srceenplay]

That game looks so large compared to this one. I would think play style and strategy would be completely different.

Do you have a smaller game, preferably a newbie game.

[Srceenplay]

Toto is the only one not voting somewhere yet?

@MOD VOTE COUNT PLEASE