The Thing Mafia - Game over!

[PeregrineV]

UT im pretty sure no one is suggesting we lynch you today, and yet you keeps asking for a lynch

people have been saying "oh he must be scum" for a while now but no serious efforts have been made to lynch me

I'm thinking this is an intentional way of trying to discredit my reads without actually getting the conftown that would come with my lynch

I want it to happen so that nonsense will end

What reads are people trying to discredit? Can you put them in a single post?

[SpyreX]

UT im pretty sure no one is suggesting we lynch you today, and yet you keeps asking for a lynch

people have been saying "oh he must be scum" for a while now but no serious efforts have been made to lynch me

I'm thinking this is an intentional way of trying to discredit my reads without actually getting the conftown that would come with my lynch

I want it to happen so that nonsense will end

Now welcome to my world

[Spiffeh]

UT im pretty sure no one is suggesting we lynch you today, and yet you keeps asking for a lynch

people have been saying "oh he must be scum" for a while now but no serious efforts have been made to lynch me

I'm thinking this is an intentional way of trying to discredit my reads without actually getting the conftown that would come with my lynch

I want it to happen so that nonsense will end

Who specifically is doing this?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I would lynch any of the 4 right now.

No order preference at all?

--

@MoI: I'd vote for Andrius if I was comfortable with who was on the wagon. I might vote UT depending on the same but I really don't want him dead before SpyreX. I'm not really comfortable with a Fire lynch at this time.

So I take it this is effectively a lynch preference of SPyrex > Andy / UT with Fire unavailable, correct?

--

Then if you remove him from the scumlist (say, for this reason), who does that leave?

I’m not sure if I am parsing this correct so let me confirm – you are asking of Andrius is removed who is left? That would be Spyrex / UT / Fire in the pool I was discussing.

--

Ok moi i like the thought process so whats the natural conclusion.

That would make you andy spiff town, which is a start. Sure sure the arguement can be made that the defense makes sense for scum you but I'm not seeing it.

Then we step back and look. Scum gutted d1 d2 aannnd apathy in the town.. would scum choke the night actions

Actually, a better question is why havent any of the scum factionals heen used or is there a spot for it that I'm missing

There is no natural conclusion because I have no confident that the “Conjecture” tentpole is correct and without it there can be no conclusion. And the fact that SirCakez basically ignored my request signals that it is never going to be confirmed either way.

I can’t parse the “we step back” portion as you’ve retreated in Spyrexlingo. More clarity would be good.

Also – how do you know the scum specials haven’t been used? I’m not sure we’d ever know unless something goes sideways at Night with the Night-actions and then ended up flipping several Town in the hunt for the Thing culprits. I guess the fact we haven't seen that sort of development is a sign they haven't been used I guess.

And the fact that we’ve tightly managed the Night action plan and got Maria the BP vest means that scum have been handcuffed since the Strongman and Roleblock require them to be in the same room as the target.

[Andrius]

Let me eat breakfast and shower then I'll sit down to this.

[SpyreX]

Right moi is the fact nothing appears to have went sideways that gave me pause. I had a moment that o forgot they existed

[Andrius]

I realized that to look at wagons and not go irate trying to mobile post isn't worth my time, so I'll get to this before class tonight.

Vca Is impossible on mobile.

[Untrod Tripod]

UT im pretty sure no one is suggesting we lynch you today, and yet you keeps asking for a lynch

people have been saying "oh he must be scum" for a while now but no serious efforts have been made to lynch me

I'm thinking this is an intentional way of trying to discredit my reads without actually getting the conftown that would come with my lynch

I want it to happen so that nonsense will end

Who specifically is doing this?

you, motherfucker

[Spiffeh]

I've made it clear that I am more confident that Firebringer and Andrius are scum than you are at this point. That is why I am not pushing for your lynch. If you are town, I certainly am not chomping at the bit to make you confirmed town by lynching you because your contribution today and for most of the game has been shit and mostly been beyond complaining that we're not lynching you. I find it much more valuable to lynch scum today and Firebringer and Andrius are where I think that will give us the best chance.

You literally have no provided any reads to "discredit" so I don't know where you're pulling that from. I mean you said you were scum reading SpyreX but you have yet to justify it or try to convince anyone of it

Like you're even fucking voting me despite saying earlier that I was one of your (albeit, weakeast) town reads, over SpyreX who you supposedly think is scum

So basically none of this makes sense and you are being bad

[Spiffeh]

@mod V/LA until 12/15 because finals are the worst

Should still be able to maintain somewhat regular activity but this is a precaution

[Untrod Tripod]

I've made it clear that I am more confident that Firebringer and Andrius are scum than you are at this point. That is why I am not pushing for your lynch. If you are town, I certainly am not chomping at the bit to make you confirmed town by lynching you because your contribution today and for most of the game has been shit and mostly been beyond complaining that we're not lynching you. I find it much more valuable to lynch scum today and Firebringer and Andrius are where I think that will give us the best chance.

You literally have no provided any reads to "discredit" so I don't know where you're pulling that from. I mean you said you were scum reading SpyreX but you have yet to justify it or try to convince anyone of it

Like you're even fucking voting me despite saying earlier that I was one of your (albeit, weakeast) town reads, over SpyreX who you supposedly think is scum

So basically none of this makes sense and you are being bad

yeah, I'm pretty much checked out this game. all of scum reads being town and dealing with DT and then dreal just wiped me.

why am I still voting you? that's dumb.

unvote

[Errantparabola]

Dear Moderator,

I regret to inform you that I, too, will be on Vacation/Limited Access until the date of December 15, 2016. This hecause of the trying experience of final examinations, which, as Spiffeh has declared, is indeed the most terrible. However, I will also be able to maintain an adequate level of activity in this game; this, too, is merely a precautionary measure.

Regards,
Errantparabola

[Andrius]

@mod V/LA until 12/15 because finals are the worst

Should still be able to maintain somewhat regular activity but this is a precaution

Dear Moderator,

I regret to inform you that I, too, will be on Vacation/Limited Access until the date of December 15, 2016. This hecause of the trying experience of final examinations, which, as Spiffeh has declared, is indeed the most terrible. However, I will also be able to maintain an adequate level of activity in this game; this, too, is merely a precautionary measure.

Regards,
Errantparabola

Undergrads.

[Untrod Tripod]

they're so cute

I'm so proud of my undergrads. they really knocked it out of the park this semester.

[Andrius]

I cant remember much you might have i dont havr a real answer you'll like

Are we talking gut? Strong gut?
Because if we're going to do that reevaluation of reads thing UT wants us to do I'd like words on him.
Is he in your blind spot?
Because he was in mine.

And you and Maria were strong town-reading him and I want to know why. Her answer didn't satisfy and if yours doesn't I'd like to move forward with that in some fashion.

Yet no effort by Andy to actually find those scum …

Look. Just because I don't do it IMMEDIATELY doesn't mean its not happening.
This month is a bad one for what is left of my family and I'm finishing up my MBA. I'm not here to make excuses but please don't assume my normal hypoactivity means if I don't do something immediately its not happening. You know me better than that.

This is Town BTW … I cannot see scum working this hard to get Spyrex to be scum read by others when he’s already willing to be wagoned and Skybird’s reasoning here is so incorrect per the Mod’s reveal about Fire’s ability to block him.

Yeah but the SpyreX wagon is nil at the moment. UT and Sky have said they want to lynch him, but have no fire in them.
I've said I'm against it.

So town for me is

MagnaOfIllusion
SpyreX
Firebringer
Wraith
Spiffeh
Andrius

Town lean
PV - I don't care if he didn't go to the right room last night, I don't see him as scum.

Leaves Skybird, Errant, UT and MariaR for me.

Andrius votes seem bad.

I take it, then, that [Skybird, EP, UT, Maria] are your scumreads?
I don't like to have to guess what people's scumreads are.

Hmm could it be errant cause it sure as shit isnt andy

I can't be the only one noticing his lack of presence here.
And then I call him out.
And he votes me. lolok

Andy is transparent. He's so much a heart on the sleeve player and the bounce feels genuine.
I mean look at when it went to team wrath that was legit demoralization.
And i don't expect andyscum to lay this type of emotion out. Call it a hunch

Spy you just get me.

1SVT is more of me remembering Yume slot-- but there are vacuum town things about both you and PV

Yume did something?

I mean i wish i knew how the hell i can't get lynched even when i ask for those times in the future

The scum are scared?
They don't want to make a first move?
They did the song and dance and that turned into the Toogaloo Boogaloo and now they don't song and dance. They're ok wining and dining to see what happens?

Yin and yang.
Ut has been transparent this whole game

I'll defer to you then.
You're town because you're transparent.

Boom.

VOTING BLOC
SPYREX
UT

This is essentially a prodge.

If it isn't already clear, I'm basically going to wait today and see how the rest of the town votes, then join whatever wagon I think is best.

Sometimes you can't wait for superman.
Sometimes you have to put on the cape yourself.
But I'm still here and breathing so TO ARMS.

anyway I was mostly addressing me and my reads

but I'm encouraging everyone else to dig deep and reexamine

Yeah I agree with this. One thing I think we all need to do is develop our own reads on everyone. I've seen a number of people state they are trusting so-n-so's read of a certain player. I'm guilty of it myself. I need to look at everyone with fresh eyes and make sure I'm not overlooking something.

I think this goes along with what EP was saying in 5320 too.

Can I ask you for your opinions on Fire and EP?
I know you want Spy dead which makes me sad.

EP's recent posts look town

Help me out a bit?

The difference between this game and Kids Mafia for spiffeh seems distinct in the way he reacts to people pushing him.
I really really think he is scum at this point.

Spiffeh was on both lynch wagons on scum too.
Points to him being scum since ScumSpiffeh likes to buss.

These two posts in particular show that he came into the day with the intention to scum read me about something and that no true evaluation of my alignment is taking place.

He ignores the rest of my play and pinpoints two areas that boil down to "he did this as town in one game and isn't do it here" and "he did this as scum one game and he might have done it here too". Both of these are surface level (and untrue?) observations about a couple games that are pretty much disproven if you take a few minutes to PROPERLY meta me.

If you think it's possible I have been bussing then why don't you look at my pushes on the flipped scum and find or provide something that would indicate that?

Instead you go
"two flipped scum"
"spiffeh pushed both of them"
"must be scum that bussed"
Or maybe I did that thing I do in other town games of mine where I successfully find scum and push them so they get lynched?

This is not a natural conclusion for town to draw, especially with the level of confidence he seemed to have about it.

VOTE: Firebringer

I hear you, but I can see this being town Fire not so much flailing but just trying to interact with you and see what sticks, ala where his read sits.
That wasn't the best words.
Uh.
I can see this being FIRE just trying something outside of the norm.
I just think of Monkeyman in Pathfinder. Flying off the handle is the wrong term but he was pretty much voting anyone and everyone who wasn't him, even with a somewhat town-bloc formed to crush the game.

Tammy dying when scum shouldn't really have an indication that he wouldn't be protecting her given that was what he vowed to do for the entire game

If you turn the chessboard over, both you and Magna also knew that I wasn't leaning towards a protection of Tammy last night, so hypothetically either of you as scum could have known that Tammy was a safe kill from our discission last night.

Maybe I'll look at you two later.
I'd be doing SPYREX a disservice if I didn't try the TINFOIL on.

Prod dodge this is slightly stalling and it feels like were at a point where it's like "pick a lynch and pray"

Hahahahahahaha I absolve my fucking self of blame here because I've tried my goddamn best to avoid it. But then I sit here staring at the goddamn thread every 20 minutes hoping someone will prove me fucking wrong and all I get 90% of the time is shitposts and trolling and "I JUST CAN'T DECIDE" garbage

I hate my life

I don't like your attitude here, but that doesn't mean scum.
ILL WEAR THE CAPE
BUT IF I FALL
THEY WILL NEED YOU

(both MoI and Andrius can attest to this as I posted a reads list in the neighborhood before Day started).

This is absolutely true.

Yep

Spiffeh can be town for the forseeable future:

Vote 1: Spyrex
Vote 2: Spyrex

Be apart of the lynch that matters

Nope.
Try again.

Yeah FB's recent posts suggest to me that he knows he royally fucked up going after me and is trying to reverse the damage by hardcore interacting with me (something he hasn't really done to anyone in the game) and buddying me.

He is scum.

You mean the whole "I have reservations on Spiffeh but he's maybe town" thing?
This post?

i don't know spiffeh.
i am honestly split on u.
ur reaction to my votes on you being that i wanted to vote you so that i could stop you from commuting seem so self ego smug that i thought it couldn't come from scum.

on other hand your case on me being scum seems self serving, i guess you could say mine was too.

I don't know.
50/50.

I should iso you or something.
Why did you originally townread me?

??

I don't even think that will get us to a lynch.

I like errant today. I really don't like maria. Sky is still town

Does like mean like as town or like as lynch?

I think if spy isn't scum I would auto lynch FB tbh

how about still lynch me even if spy is scum.
I am fine with both!

Tired of this game.
I have debated screens hotting and posting my role pm like 5 times with myself just to prove some stupid point.

This isn't the right attitude to have.
We've had this discussion.
This doesn't solve anything, Fire.

there is literally too many people in this game that want to get lynched.
me and ut have to fight over it.

why can't we all just agree to lynch spyrex instead

Are you ever going to do something about the spy lynch other than say CANT WE JUST LYNCH SPY?

do you honestly think I am going to fucking listen to anything you say spiffeh?
Honestly.

Honestly.
You can't be that dense.

YOU ARE IGNORING MY POSTS AND YOU THINK I AM JUST GOING TO FOLLOW YOUR COMMANDS?

FUCK NO

FIRE
THIS ISNT F***ING HELPING ANYTHING

like for someone pushing so much effort. to me i would think he would have stronger convictions. he doesn't.

This is pretty false, both on linking effort -> convictions and lack of convictions -> wraith

spiffeh-- i agree with you that fire's attack is nonsensical, but how is that scum contextually?
why does fire deciding that he, as scum, will attack you before the day begins make sense from a contextual perspective?
(psst it doesnt)

andrius said he'd do things
will wait for those things.
or perhaps
it is not the thing that he is doing
but the thing that he is
because he is a thing

if it's fb or andy today I'm lynching andy

me as well

UT im pretty sure no one is suggesting we lynch you today, and yet you keeps asking for a lynch
you wanted a townread reevaluation, where did that land you?

Hey look.
Here's EP with next to nothing attacking me for not doing things YET.

[Andrius]

VOTING BLOC
SPYREX
UT
SPIFFEH
MAGNA
MARIA
WRAITH

go go go

[Andrius]

I'm excluding myself since like half of you want me dead as some point.

[Andrius]

Vote: ErrantParabola

Let's try this on for size since we're supposed to be looking for under-the-radar scumbags and since apparently we don't care about lynching noncompliants anymore.

[Andrius]

I mean.
I can unvote
and go sit in the corner
if you'd rather not be on a wagon with me ;_;
ive been bullied before its ok if you don't want me to sit with you

[Spiffeh]

they're so cute

I'm so proud of my undergrads. they really knocked it out of the park this semester.

thanks babe

[SpyreX]

Andy the ep today is like as town. When he engages it just feels right. Not transparent but not bravado.

Where as even for the low bar of this game maria is able to lombo right the shit under it

[Errantparabola]

right. so.

Primary overarching components of my scumread on Andrius

The primary reason why I encouraged reevaluation on Andrius isn't the Tammy thing, although that was what sort of sparked it. That's not hard and fast evidence, but I've detailed what the primary thing was in previous posts.
- I was primarily resorting to POE due to a lack of confident scumreads, because everyone alive I have townread or currently townread.
- Andrius was being called town but I could not find a justifiable reason for this townread. The reasons that I saw in other people were not strongly present. There's the least there making me uncomfortable with a vote.
- Keep in mind that this was, and still is, the main point: Andrius pushes the "blindly lynch plan-breakers" narrative (with a lack of critically analyzing that), one which I think has not been valid for a while, and overall encouraging that stagnation that's really harmful especially with the dynamic of this playerlist (who's getting townread, what names are coming up for a lynch). The stagnation that allows echo chambers regarding Andrius being town to emerge.
- Failing to actually critically evaluate-- Andrius is applying certain logic that pushes "EP is scum" narrative but not applying it elsewhere. Example: earlier in this day, Andrius calls out UT for not having any scumreads, and yet, he appears in the town block because he's a townread on Andrius's townread. That doesn't make sense. That really doesn't make sense. On the spectrum of "Reevaluating reads" to "Pushing threats to survival" I'd argue that Andrius's hunting mechanism today falls more towards the latter.

Specifc, circumstantial things that don't stand on their own

- Andrius is painting me as someone afraid of him because I've been "called out." If this really were a point that Andrius believed, it's far more likely that he would have made it when it was most pertinent-- when I accused him of pushing me as scum and he denied it, he merely wanted to sort me. Not right now, when it's important to his survival. That's play consistent with a reactive mindset. Yes, I'm aware that this isn't necessarily the case and I'm open to hearing your thought process. But from my perspective, you took a point that you would have most likely thought earlier if you were evaluating organically and not to push a narrative, and stated it when you wanted to push that narrative.
- What Andrius is viewing as me attacking him suggests to me more of a reactive mindset. That whole "perhaps it's not the things that Andrius is doing but the thing that he is" is pretty clearly frivolous, especially considering I said that I am willing to wait for those things to happen, but Andrius decides to look at that and say, "this is EP attacking me for not doing things." Again, it doesn't suggest organic thought. He reads my posts with the intention of looking for "evidence" to call me out on, and it results in interpretations like that.

[Andrius]

Andy the ep today is like as town. When he engages it just feels right. Not transparent but not bravado.

Where as even for the low bar of this game maria is able to lombo right the shit under it

I know but there's a difference here.
I see Maria more as a UT type where its "f it I do what I want and read who I want and I interact with people when I care to". She ignored me until she asked me something, for example.

EP doesn't seem to have many interactions.
Again, besides for the UR QUAN.

pedit: Oh hello wall.

[Errantparabola]

sorry, i thought i formatted that more cleanly and succinctly but it comes across as a big block of text.
the first group is pretty much clarifying stuff i've already said before

[Andrius]

If you think I'm encouraging stagnation in the game you need to read me over again.