Mini 1853: Trial of the Evoker [Game Over]

[BATORU]

I suspect we'd find an ISO of vague waffly feels if we isoed bat.

Again, you just suddenly started pushing the narrative that we're definitely scum when ruko

asked you a question

for the sake of

sorting

you and voted confirmed scum.

Voting the person we know we're lynching today shouldn't be AI. If anything

waiting

to vote would be scummy to me had you not explained reasons for it just now.

WTF kinda push is this? If you're town, legit, what the fuck are you thinking? You haven't isoed us. You "suspect" you'd find indecision and "vagueness" which, hey, maybe, since most of the specific stuff has been said in our hydra chat. I do not recall you pushing anything like this before.

Predit: the problem is THERE IS NO EVIDENCE. You're just pushing utter confidence on nothing and I don't understand you. I don't even remember you scumreading us before now.

[BATORU]

-tama.

[pisskop]

what was said was not:

-Town doesnt do that
-Why would town do that
-This isnt a town mindset

It was -if you are town this [FEELS]-.

It wa worded in the most irritatingly neutral way of pushing a negative.

[BATORU]

"too towny to be scum" is a shit reason to claim to scumread a now-caught scum, and you have the audacity to claim that the hammerer is scummy after your AtE copout read?

What? We never said that. Not once.

In fact, I explicitly

wasn't

scumreading Dunnstral. The thing is that I could not under any circumstances see Nos making that post as scum. It was too real. It was too raw. That was genuine self reflection and I've felt that before. He didn't have anything to self reflect

on

if he were scum, because he would have done his best and gotten fucked over by a good night action choice from town!Dunn and good crumbs. He was reflecting because he was town.

The action of hammering a townread while giving "credit" to Sick and Fire without Fire having weighed in after that post is scummy. I was waiting for him to come back and give his judgement of it and you took that away.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

i mean honestly I'm waiting for you to out it as a reaction test but in the meantime i'm treating it as genuine.

predit: I word things how i feel. maybe it's a negative; that's what i'm trying to determine now.

-tama

[pisskop]

You did.

You said "sorry bro, but NOSs ate was super-fucking town and I am now more inclined to vote you"

You didnt have to claim to scumread dunn. you said it all buy avoiding that statement.

[pisskop]

Aye what Ive got from our talk is that your being slippery and unconfrontational. I guess being scum will do that hunh

[Aj The Epic]

....it was bad AtE... There was nothing real nor raw about it.

[BATORU]

You did.

You said "sorry bro, but NOSs ate was super-fucking town and I am now more inclined to vote you"

You didnt have to claim to scumread dunn. you said it all buy avoiding that statement.

Why would we avoid that statement as scum? Wouldn't we want to be

more

vocal about it, since it would be our partner? Just because something irritates you doesn't make it scum.

neither of us scumread dunn specifically. It was a matter of who we were townreading less. At least for me.

-tama

[BATORU]

Aye what Ive got from our talk is that your being slippery and unconfrontational. I guess being scum will do that hunh

I don't think i was being non-confrontational. Both of us were responding to everything you said and not avoiding the issue. I don't feel like you're doing that, but whatever. I also actively went back to take out a couple words in one post just because i don't

want

to be unnecessarily rude. It's not because of my alignment.

If you think we were buddying you're crazy.

....it was bad AtE... There was nothing real nor raw about it.

well he flipped town.

[BATORU]

-tama

[Aj The Epic]

it doesn't change that the AtE was forced.

[BATORU]

You did.

You said "sorry bro, but NOSs ate was super-fucking town and I am now more inclined to vote you"

You didnt have to claim to scumread dunn. you said it all buy avoiding that statement.

I think you're confbiasing. I can see why you could read it that way if you are, but wouldn't I just apologize to him in the scum thread if that were the case? Why do it in thread?

Aye what Ive got from our talk is that your being slippery and unconfrontational. I guess being scum will do that hunh

Unconfrontational would be asking Fire what he thought instead of butting heads with you :/ I don't know. Fire thought you were town, and I was honestly just waiting for him to come back to help me make the case for that post from Nos being genuine as I thought he would also see it, so I might be having a kneejerk reaction, sorry. I know a hammer on its own isn't scum indicative, I just wish I'd had the chance to talk over the AtE post with the person I trusted most before the hammer dropped.

I'll wait for someone who knows you better to weigh in on whether that's even AI for you. At this stage I have so few people I actually trust right now.

~Ruko

[pisskop]

Ill calm my jets. We need to hear from fire/nos/btd

[BATORU]

Like, we're reacting to everything you say, while you're giving aloof one-liners and ignoring largely what has been posted to address things. Your points have seemed highly insubstantial to me.

I find that pretty frustrating. Hence I said it was a reaction test. If it is please say so because it influences my read on you.

predit: So you're saying that, as town, Nosferatu forced everything there the same way as if he were scum? You think that's more likely than just

you misreading it

?

-tama

[BATORU]

it doesn't change that the AtE was forced.

Not from how I read it. I'd just come off reading Nosferatu's ISO in the game that Fire linked where they were scum together. I didn't see anything like that there, which lent credence to Fire's initial read of Nos here.

~Ruko

[drealmerz7]

I telling you to hold you weiner long enough to let people come out if they want to.

I didn't hammer anyone

Out the gates -> bam obvious vote plus laying suspicion down.

thats scummy yo

where did I lay suspicion down? how is obvious vote scummy?

gotta catch up more later

lynch the scum pls

[Fire Assassin]

Everyone unvote, we are not rushing this day.
I am very disappointed in myself for compromising yesterday.

[Fire Assassin]

ewww.

what gave you the idea fire was waffling?

I said multiple times throughout the day actually that I thought it was Dunnstral over Nosferatu.
I just decided to give into the leading wagon since I thought there might be a good chance I was wrong.

[Fire Assassin]

Spoiler: My posts yesterday

Time to ignore my own brain for a bit.
VOTE: Nosferatu

Not the end of the world if this ends up a mislynch.
Although if it is i can't claim i am better than anyone for avoiding being on the Sondam wagon.

I am so deeply confirmation biasing myself that I honestly wish I had a hydra partner to tell me to shut the fuck up and take a break from game so i can regain perspective later.
You have no idea how much I believe my mind is twisting stuff to support my read.

cause honestly, I don't see anything outright scummy from dunnstral.
Nothing.

He just doesn't seem as town to me as Nosferatu.

Nos is pulling the 'haha, you're so stupid, i can't believe you'd think this' performance, but it doesn't feel like he's really laughing.

yeah he isn't laughing.
He is angry and posting a lot of sarcasm mixed with passive aggressive attitude.

Its not really meant to be humorous from what I see, its trying to get the point across that you are ridiculous.

@Fire what game is the scum game with Nos you were talking about?

~Ruko

It was this gamee:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=68191

Basically nosferatu lurked, provided surface thoughts to the game, did a bit of bussing, and somewhat ignored people pushing on him.

This really feels like nosferatu is going to be flipping town.
I really starting to think Dunnstral was making an example of a role and used watcher and got lucky, as in it just so happened he claimed watcher later.
Is that insane? Maybe, but it feels more likely than Nos being scum at the moment.

@Dunn the most compelling crumb was the one with watcher in it. Everything else could be open ended to be left to complete interpretation.
You saying you have more power in other words can mean anything. Just because you said it doesn't make it so. I often leave a lot of ambiguity in my powers as scum so as to go back to it later for affirmation to players or ignore it and say i was baiting a kill or something.

@Batoru I read Nosferatu as town due to this latest batch of posts, I don't think Nosferatu is good at doing the whole AtE as scum, and I don't think I have seen him do it quite frankly. The only thing that kind of makes me think its fake was you pointing out to him the reaction to a cc in a different game was much different, so he may be just trying to up the emotion for it to seem more "real" but again, I don't think thats likely.

I read Nos as town day 1 by how he played, activity and presence and thoughts.
I compared this game to a game where I had him as a scummate and it didn't match up.

I don't know how pisskop thought i was really favoring nosferatu if you just read my posts, I never call dunnstral town and the only thing that i thought gave him any merit was his watcher crumb which i also claimed was possibly just dumb luck.

I mean my vote on nosferatu was me saying " i am ignoring all my previous reasoning" because i felt i was conf biasing myself so hard. Turned out I was right originally but town wasn't going that way.

[drealmerz7]

):

[Fire Assassin]

Claim RB dunn.

VOTE: Dunn

WHY DID YOU CLAIM THIS!?!?!?!?!?!?

[BATORU]

UNVOTE:

[Fire Assassin]

We have confirms on Dunn being scum, so I want to VCA today.
I want nobody to claim anything.

If we can get dunn doing associations that would be great, but unlikely since he is probably going to just troll or not participate.

[Aj The Epic]

It was a spell. Scum already know how they got targeted, because Dunn holds the spell.