Newbie 1763 | Foreigners of a Person - Happy Ending?

[shannon]

Krylea is my top pick for scum. See spoilers below for stuff that I find offputting. I can't put my finger on what it is exactly, but I find Krylea to be trying to be town leader in quite a forceful way.

And this just seems too shifty - "And if you don't think Toto is scum, then who do you think is? Coming in and retracting your vote without making any new cases doesn't help town or get us closer to finding scum."

Spoiler:

Both of Krylea and Mlmooney, why switch your votes over to Toto.
Someone getting 3 votes on page 1. What warrants that?

Toto, just because you changed avatar doesn't make you less scum. From what I have read a scum play is to avoid conflict. Is that what you are doing by changing it? Avoiding conflict?

Lots of people out for the early kill.
Can we not let everyone check in first?

The way you find scum is by scumhunting and active pressure. Wagons in RVS help get you out of RVS which is always to the benefit of town. The only situation an early wagon is bad is if it leads to a speedlynch, which is generally unlikely unless someone is really stupid or careless. It isn't about an early kill. It's about information.

Toto seemed, as you pointed out, to react defensively to pressure. This can be a scumtell, but also indicates that pressure on that person can lead to responses which might give additional information. Thus, I would definitely like to see more pressure on Toto. That being said, I didn't like mooney's vote at all either, and so my vote is staying parked on them for now.

I have thoughts.

Don't have anything to say yet.

VOTE: krylea

Care to share with the class?

Come on folks, we need more people actively trying to find scum. I like that Toto at least seems to be trying to do something, even if I don't understand quite where it is coming from. Src, a few of your early posts were good, any thoughts on recent developments? Who are your scumreads now?

mooney, shannon, elhabe, I'd like to hear more from all of you (anything at all from shannon would be nice). Especially you, mooney, I'd like to hear more from you besides a naked vote please.

I believe that we just need to keep pushing people for information

Then do it! Your vote is on Toto right now. Do you suspect he is scum? If so, push him for further info or apply additional pressure. If not, who do you suspect?

Oy, mooney, lets hear some more from you. I still don't like your page 1 very much. Get in the thread.

Has Arrowscum posted at all yet?

[snipped for length]
My thoughts on the thread right now are: First I think that maybe Toto might not be scum since he's been taking so many risks with arguing and saying what's on his mind because scum wouldn't try to stand out and take so many risks with being noticed or judged. And because of this I'll
UNVOTE: Toto
However, I won't just ignore Toto and totally decide that he's innocent. I still want to keep an eye out for anything he reveals and I'll keep an open mind about others

Scum can be just as active as town and take just as many risks as town. I don't think that is at all alignment indicative. I am not 100% sold on the Toto case, but I don't think this is a good reason to jump ship.
And if you don't think Toto is scum, then who do you think is? Coming in and retracting your vote without making any new cases doesn't help town or get us closer to finding scum.

[Toto]

Ok. Yeah Krylea seems a bit pushy. Why are you voting Elhabe and not Krylea though?

[shannon]

It makes no difference, I'm getting lynched today. Let's do it and move on please.

[Srceenplay]

So Shannon is definitely scum or game throwing town.

She says I am trying to be super noobie in my first game ever.
This is not her first game,she is not a noobie, she is a SE. Yet she just happens to make a quote mistake with a "Shannon vote" when she is L-1. I have seen scum be their own hammer vote but not town. It seems like a indirect vote to throw us off.
Now if she is town I see it as a game throw. Now she gives out her opposite reads after her hypothetical lynch. And when asked to elaborate more she says it doesn't matter I'm done.
If you are town you are not done until the mod says so.

[Srceenplay]

@Titus
I have been skimming through other games. Most I have seen a role reveal is not given automatically at L-1. It usually comes after someone gives intent to hammer. Is there a reason why you don't wait for the intent to hammer?

[shannon]

So Shannon is definitely scum or game throwing town.

She says I am trying to be super noobie in my first game ever.
This is not her first game,she is not a noobie, she is a SE. Yet she just happens to make a quote mistake with a "Shannon vote" when she is L-1. I have seen scum be their own hammer vote but not town. It seems like a indirect vote to throw us off.
Now if she is town I see it as a game throw. Now she gives out her opposite reads after her hypothetical lynch. And when asked to elaborate more she says it doesn't matter I'm done.
If you are town you are not done until the mod says so.

To quote Wayne's World, Stacey, are you mental?

First, you being actually new doesn't preclude you from hiding behind cluelessness and playing it up.

Second. yes, that is a real quote mistake and I resent the accusation that it isn't. These things happen when you are trying to quote quotes-in-quotes and remove part of the irrelevant stuff. I'm not a tech genius. I will not ever intentionally self-hammer, and it should be pretty clear from the posts after the broken quote that a self-vote wasn't my intention.

There is no point me indirectly voting to throw you off. How would that even work?As Titus has pointed out, it's totally up to the mod whether my broken-quote counts as a vote or not. If the mod says I've actually voted, I've lynched myself. If I haven't voted, I'm still very close to a lynching and I don't think anyone has been 'thrown' by my accidental quote. See how no one has unvoted because of it? (Well, except Titus I think, but she'll be back).

((Additionally, in SE mode here: Fake voting is sometimes a strategy. For example, say a wagon is already at L-1, and I'm on it. I can vote again, for the same person, making it look to casual readers like a lynch, but it's not, because I'm not adding to the total. This can sometimes produce interesting reactions that are useful))

Also, I think that this:

"Now if she is town I see it as a game throw. Now she gives out her opposite reads after her hypothetical lynch. And when asked to elaborate more she says it doesn't matter I'm done.
If you are town you are not done until the mod says so"

comes off as incredibly scummy. Basically it amounts to 'hey, whoops, looks like you're town but here I'm giving people an excuse to join your wagon anyway'.

Did it occur to you that in saying 'hurry up and vote me' I might be attempting to provoke reactions? I sure got one from you. Even on the brink of being lynched, I'm still trying to give town more to work with.

I'm not voting because I don't want to prejudice any further wagon that may form (if indeed one can form, I'm still not sure whether I'm alive?) but I want to draw town's attention to this ^^

[mlmooney89]

I really want this day to end but I find it a very dick move if we count misquotes against Shannon. These quoting features aren't the best and it's easy to jack them up. Votes should be counted when intentional. Anyone can see she did not mean to do that. All the mod has to do is go in and edit the quote tags for her and bam she didn't "vote".

[Toto]

Last reads. Where do you think I went wrong reading you?

I'm reading this over and over because I have a weird feeling about this, and I think I finally get why.

Why would you ask someone how you misread them at this particular moment when you are about to learn their alignment? how does that help you find scum or town from the remaining players depending on her flip?

VOTE: Titus

[Srceenplay]

My point is you could have given out any type of read this past week. You didn't.
You wait until you are being voted up to do so. So how does your prejudice apply now but not 12 hours ago?

If I am a scum would I willing be putting myself out there questioning your motives on d1, or would the scum sit back and be quiet a let it play out to see what happens?

Personally I think if you are town and you have anything to say or on your mind I think you are obligated to say it. Why is your prejudice concerning?

[Titus]

@Titus
I have been skimming through other games. Most I have seen a role reveal is not given automatically at L-1. It usually comes after someone gives intent to hammer. Is there a reason why you don't wait for the intent to hammer?

Yes, because it is wrong strategy and enables blitz hammers.

[Titus]

Last reads. Where do you think I went wrong reading you?

I'm reading this over and over because I have a weird feeling about this, and I think I finally get why.

Why would you ask someone how you misread them at this particular moment when you are about to learn their alignment? how does that help you find scum or town from the remaining players depending on her flip?

VOTE: Titus

That's the time to ask. Shannon's derp self hammer appeared really townie. That meant I was wrong and I want to know why.

[Toto]

But why do you care about more than knowing who she thinks is town or scum? Seems like a waste of precious time during twilight. You can always ask her after the game.

[Srceenplay]

@Titus
I have been skimming through other games. Most I have seen a role reveal is not given automatically at L-1. It usually comes after someone gives intent to hammer. Is there a reason why you don't wait for the intent to hammer?

Yes, because it is wrong strategy and enables blitz hammers.

You told me when I posted to everyone to have caution and give Shannon time to answer because of time difference, don't worry everyone knows that. People don't blitz hammer. That would be a policy lynch.

[Titus]

But why do you care about more than knowing who she thinks is town or scum? Seems like a waste of precious time during twilight. You can always ask her after the game.

Because if she's town that helps recalibrate my reads and if she's scum sets up investigation.

Always get info from dead men.

[Titus]

@Titus
I have been skimming through other games. Most I have seen a role reveal is not given automatically at L-1. It usually comes after someone gives intent to hammer. Is there a reason why you don't wait for the intent to hammer?

Yes, because it is wrong strategy and enables blitz hammers.

You told me when I posted to everyone to have caution and give Shannon time to answer because of time difference, don't worry everyone knows that. People don't blitz hammer. That would be a policy lynch.

In a newbie queue or anywhere, do not enable bad play, even if infrequent.

[Toto]

Because if she's town that helps recalibrate my reads and if she's scum sets up investigation.

But it seems you are asking her to help you clarify your read on HER. Which is useless given that she is about to flip and you will know anyway.

In any case, you now seemed convinced she is town, even before you asked for her clarification because you said her self vote was townie. Can you explain how her self vote is townie? and do you remain convinced of this fact after she clarified why you were misreading her for you?

[Titus]

Because if she's town that helps recalibrate my reads and if she's scum sets up investigation.

But it seems you are asking her to help you clarify your read on HER. Which is useless given that she is about to flip and you will know anyway.

In any case, you now seemed convinced she is town, even before you asked for her clarification because you said her self vote was townie. Can you explain how her self vote is townie? and do you remain convinced of this fact after she clarified why you were misreading her for you?

Yes, she is town. Scum generally don't hammer themselves by accident.

[Srceenplay]

So if it was an accident she is town but if it wasn't she is scum?

[fruitsman]

I'm going to be AFK for a wee bit out of ordinary. (Finals today and tomorrow).

I just want everyone to know I'm against this Shaggin(Shannon) Wagon.

I agree in the idea of a harsh rule of Krylea being scummy.

[Toto]

this game is very weird.

[Titus]

So if it was an accident she is town but if it wasn't she is scum?

Yup. I have never seen a scum accidently self hammer.

[Titus]

I'm going to be AFK for a wee bit out of ordinary. (Finals today and tomorrow).

I just want everyone to know I'm against this Shaggin(Shannon) Wagon.

I agree in the idea of a harsh rule of Krylea being scummy.

Rephrase this last sentence please.

[Elhabe21]

Because if she's town that helps recalibrate my reads and if she's scum sets up investigation.

But it seems you are asking her to help you clarify your read on HER. Which is useless given that she is about to flip and you will know anyway.

In any case, you now seemed convinced she is town, even before you asked for her clarification because you said her self vote was townie. Can you explain how her self vote is townie? and do you remain convinced of this fact after she clarified why you were misreading her for you?

Yes, she is town. Scum generally don't hammer themselves by accident.

Well, if you think she's Town, then who do you suspect now? and why?

[Titus]

I do not know yet. Otherwise, I would be voting them.

[Srceenplay]

Would it be easier if we all told you our roles?