Undertale Mafia: Friends & Corpses [GAME OVER]

[MathBlade]

Same question to you Yoshi. Think through the options. What comes up?

[BigYoshiFan]

Creeps20 scum, I conversed with them on something weird he said. They called me confirmed scum once, which is a stretch on words. No reason to TR them.
This of course means Gio/Narna scum. Hard for me to believe Narna just derped. I also think it's... convenient that Giovanni came to Narna's rescue with a weak clear. Did he announce he was gonna check Narna beforehand? PV also hammered on him for not crumbing on who he would target before he claimed, which makes sense to me if you're actually a weak role.
They haven't contributed much lately either. What say you on this theory? Need more?

[MathBlade]

Creeps20 scum, I conversed with them on something weird he said. They called me confirmed scum once, which is a stretch on words. No reason to TR them.
This of course means Gio/Narna scum. Hard for me to believe Narna just derped. I also think it's... convenient that Giovanni came to Narna's rescue with a weak clear. Did he announce he was gonna check Narna beforehand? PV also hammered on him for not crumbing on who he would target before he claimed, which makes sense to me if you're actually a weak role.
They haven't contributed much lately either. What say you on this theory? Need more?

It is possible but admittedly runs through a lot of hoops. Mainly we will probably learn more by who dies in that case. Namely if anyone in the chain dies and isn't Town then either they can't kill or Gio+Narna. If someone outside it dies if either narrows potential scum or identifies there was only one cult at the beginning. If no one dies and Nahdia doesn't Jailkeep that is a 1v1 between you and Nahdia.

I wrote a big wall about who I think scum could and couldn't kill in the hood and it is midnight so not in the mood to type it all out.

I would say don't be eager to type shit out. Before I got in depth with night actions I said I wanted time to read it. No reason you have to answer immediately. I do because of confidence and playstyle. If you need or want time take it.

[Giovanni il Pellegrino]

I swear, being in GMT+2/+3 is nothing short of torture in this game.

Creeps20 scum, I conversed with them on something weird he said. They called me confirmed scum once, which is a stretch on words. No reason to TR them.
This of course means Gio/Narna scum. Hard for me to believe Narna just derped. I also think it's... convenient that Giovanni came to Narna's rescue with a weak clear. Did he announce he was gonna check Narna beforehand? PV also hammered on him for not crumbing on who he would target before he claimed, which makes sense to me if you're actually a weak role.
They haven't contributed much lately either. What say you on this theory? Need more?

During early Day 5 (before the mass replacement) Narna was going to get lynched no matter who said whatever. It was the height of the Pitchfork Ages. If I was a scumbuddy of Narna, there would be absolutely no reason for me to stick my neck out for him, seeing how the overwhelming majority wanted him lynched, especially since I was generally townread up until that point. So no, it was not convenient neither for me nor for the hypothetical Gio+Narna scumteam to come to his rescue.

Also, my action was dangerous and futile. Nobody listened to me save Nahdia iirc. It was only after the mass replacement happened that people started thinking about alternatives, and I had no way of knowing that said thing would happen.

I have admitted of playing the role terribly, but I am bad at crumbing anyway, so I would have claimed sooner or later. I also decided not to tell who I would target Night 4 because I was afraid I might be meddled with. Back then I was the only one who had realized that results can be vague on purpose and I wanted to eliminate a vagueness variable.

Regarding who I will target this night:
The problem with targeting Almost50 lies elsewhere. As I have said, if I target someone who does not has a night action that targets, then the result is vague on purpose as to not know whether my action didn't go through or my target didn't target anybody. It is the same thing that happened with Maxous, where I hadn't realized that the action had failed until Maxous claimed to have targeted somebody. I can target A50, but I would prefer targeting someone who has claimed to have some kind of targeting action himself.

[Accountant]

Did anything interesting happen?

[MathBlade]

...Gio I have a night action tonight only.
You should always crumb even if you think Town is playing idiocally. (Hence me and ice cream) These crumbs are something that may not make sense in the moment but would make sense if you flipped. Like if I had died at night and SirCakez had lived he would easily be able to know who I hit and why.

Accountant *sigh* Go check the hood.A lot of things happened.

[MathBlade]

Merry Christmas Eve if you celebrate. If you are like me merry oh shit I have three more presents to buy.

[MathBlade]

Translation offline most of the day.

[SirCakez]

SirCakez: I meant why you gave things to the people you gave them to, not why you gave certain things themselves.

Oh
Night 1 I targeted Fire because I thought he would be able to use the BG effectively and he was a townread
Nights 2/4 Andrius was a solid townread iirc so I chose him.
And last night I picked Math because of how active they are in thread and so they'd be able to strategize the Neopolitan well

For those town and not convinced that Math is scum:

Math has decided SirCakez is town because they can confirm his role through having received the Neapolitan.
Math has decided my slot is scum

despite

my slot claiming VT early, and offering to be the check from Titus, and returning a Vanilla result from Titus. Math has decided my slot is either Goon or Cult because of this.

These two viewpoints cannot exist together and be genuine. They just cannot. This is the logical progression that Math has as town which they do not have as scum. Town Math would decide either Cakez is not town just because of the role being confirmed to them, or they would decide that my slot is town. There would be consistency. There is not. Ergo, Math is scum.

This baffles me
How is Math's townread on me related to a scumread on you?

Creeps is not on the table. He is one of Narna's checks :face palm:

What? When?

I don't think NC is scum, either. Can we no lynch?

What purpose would a no lynch serve?

[Nahdia]

What purpose would a no lynch serve?

more checks, and honestly pretty much any death at this point would clarify something.

[Giovanni il Pellegrino]

...Gio I have a night action tonight only.
You should always crumb even if you think Town is playing idiocally. (Hence me and ice cream) These crumbs are something that may not make sense in the moment but would make sense if you flipped. Like if I had died at night and SirCakez had lived he would easily be able to know who I hit and why.

I know about your widget. I don't post much because I have three deadlines to meet, but I pay attention to the thread.

I never said that I didn't crumb because I was of the opinion that Town is playing idiotically. In fact, I don't think that Town is playing idiotically at all. This is a bastard game with shenanigans involved, it would actually be strange if there weren't opinions clashing with each other.

I don't like crumbing in general because if you do it the wrong way, the wrong/right message might go to the wrong people. Yes, in retrospect this role most likely needed crumbing, but I didn't feel comfortable doing so.

[Not Chara]

i don't think Giovanni is scum anymore.

[MathBlade]

i don't think Giovanni is scum anymore.

Assuming Gio is town, Gio checked Narna on N4 and got a could not kill? What does that mean to you? And what does that say about Narna's checks?

[MathBlade]

What purpose would a no lynch serve?

more checks, and honestly pretty much any death at this point would clarify something.

That means another no lynch down the line unless two killers come into play somehow. We have an odd amount alive now.

In essence this means no lynching today gives scum of whatever flavors exist the chance to kill two townies.

It is almost always better to lynch in this case unless you believe in a 6p scum team.

[MathBlade]

SirCakez: I meant why you gave things to the people you gave them to, not why you gave certain things themselves.

Oh
Night 1 I targeted Fire because I thought he would be able to use the BG effectively and he was a townread
Nights 2/4 Andrius was a solid townread iirc so I chose him.
And last night I picked Math because of how active they are in thread and so they'd be able to strategize the Neopolitan well

For those town and not convinced that Math is scum:

Math has decided SirCakez is town because they can confirm his role through having received the Neapolitan.
Math has decided my slot is scum

despite

my slot claiming VT early, and offering to be the check from Titus, and returning a Vanilla result from Titus. Math has decided my slot is either Goon or Cult because of this.

These two viewpoints cannot exist together and be genuine. They just cannot. This is the logical progression that Math has as town which they do not have as scum. Town Math would decide either Cakez is not town just because of the role being confirmed to them, or they would decide that my slot is town. There would be consistency. There is not. Ergo, Math is scum.

This baffles me
How is Math's townread on me related to a scumread on you?

Creeps is not on the table. He is one of Narna's checks :face palm:

What? When?

I don't think NC is scum, either. Can we no lynch?

What purpose would a no lynch serve?

It was mentioned on d5. Phone posting but will look it up later.

[Giovanni il Pellegrino]

i don't think Giovanni is scum anymore.

Assuming Gio is town, Gio checked Narna on N4 and got a could not kill? What does that mean to you? And what does that say about Narna's checks?

I am the follower, Mathblade, not the psychologist. I caught Narna performing an investigative action, as he claimed to do so as a psychologist.

[Ankamius]

Shiro confirmed that Narna is a Psychologist already.

[MathBlade]

Gio is claimed Weak. Gio isn't dead.

[Not Chara]

i don't think Giovanni is scum anymore.

Assuming Gio is town, Gio checked Narna on N4 and got a could not kill? What does that mean to you? And what does that say about Narna's checks?

obviously, it means Narna isn't groupscum, and Narna's checks are probably town, barring shenanigans. it also means scum are playing oddly, or have roles that can mess with checks somewhow.

[Giovanni il Pellegrino]

Gio is claimed Weak. Gio isn't dead.

Ah, nevermind. I thought you got mine and Narna's role mixed up.

My mistake.

[MathBlade]

i don't think Giovanni is scum anymore.

Assuming Gio is town, Gio checked Narna on N4 and got a could not kill? What does that mean to you? And what does that say about Narna's checks?

obviously, it means Narna isn't groupscum, and Narna's checks are probably town, barring shenanigans. it also means scum are playing oddly, or have roles that can mess with checks somewhow.

Exactly. So they know Narna and myself are making checks. What are the odds of multiple scum roles that affect things? So either me or Narna's check will be valid or one of me or Narna are scum.

Nahdia should not be blocking me or Narna so the odds of three roleblockers or multiple ascetics is pretty low.

So we sort me and Jae and then we can sort Narna.

Narna and/or Gio check me. I check Jae.

If I get a guilty but Narna says I can't kill or Gio visits me and he doesn't die then Jae is scum or scum messed with my check which confirms Narna framer theory.

If I get an innocent then Jae is damn near conf town barring god father.

If Gio or Narna check me and get a guilty then we lynch me to prove I am Town and then it is most likely that my results on Jae are reliable because Gio and/or Narna's wouldn't be.

It is a circle jerk of results but it only works if we know who is checking who so we can figure out where any shenanigans are if any.

If scum NK Gio or Narna to stop the circle jerk I find it unlikely even if Ank gets hammers that four people would die. How they try to stop the circle jerk means a lot.

With the push to lynch me instead of Maxous it seems clear to me but if y'all don't understand the circle jerk then it can't go forward.

[MathBlade]

However if Gio dies and Narna gets an innocent and he is the only death besides if Ank gets hammers and inexplicably shoots Accountant then we don't know if scum shot him or weak but then Narna likely town with an innocent on me.

Pretty much we need anyone in the circle jerk to declare actions before night so we can understand the rammifications. Sure scum in that group could lie but they would be caught.

[MathBlade]

Back to shopping for me hooray

[BigYoshiFan]

So, we're not lynching any of MathBlade, Narna, Gio, or Jae for the purpose of this circle jerk.
Thinking Narna is town, we aren't lynching from their clears of Nahdia, Accountant, and Creeps20.
I hope I'm not being considered for a lynch. SirCakez probably won't be lynched.
Then we have A50, NC, PV, and Ankamius left.
Is it fair to assume that today's lynch will be within that pool?

[Ankamius]

zzz

I don't approve of that pool in the slightest.