Large Normal 199: L'Hôtel Pleuvoir (Fin)

[Alisae]

Okay so Alisae is confirmed SK. If she was vigi, she'd push against Syryana.

She doesn't even want to touch him though, because his flip would destroy her claim. I'm ignoring her for the rest of the game as the obvious SK. It's probably not optimal to lynch her today, but she's only going to NK townies. She killed our cop obviously. Her being in the game only speeds us closer to Lylo, so if she's not the lynch today, then I hope either scum or our real vigi take her out at night. She can't remain in the game for long if town expects a chance to win.

I Can WIFOM the bolded the whole fucking day.
I want him to show up so I can touch him. Like, legit you aren't even considering the fact that he hasn't appeared yet.

No you can't. You can't call basic gameplay WIFOM. You aren't following win con for town vigi. Simple. You're SK.

You're acting like the bolded can't be done by SK.

[mozamis]

hey a first vote on me!
It's nice to be noticed...
nd it's from Titus. As Agent Gadd from "The Americans" would say:
"Let me put on my BIG SURPRISE FACE"

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Damn nevermind. Thought ssbm was softing mason. Theory canceled. Woulda put us at 5.5 confirmed on day two. With a vig slash leashed SK.

I thought it was a literal mason claim/crumb. Obviously that's not the case so eh

Why would Mason's even give that crumb? It's not necessary unless Kyouko or his partner were at L1 with intent to hammer given. Then he'd say it. It's useless right now to give that info out. There's not enough sure-fire TRs after the recent flips to create a town bloc, and it's not optimal Mason play to tell anyone with so many unconfirmed and nowhere near Lylo. Mason's shouldn't crumb yet, and so why are you looking for it? To create a theory? Why not find scum one player at a time? We need an actual scum flip before theories are even close to useful right now. Please try to remember that.

Yeah I'm not a mason. Idk about a mozamis wagon though. The things she say really ping me but I feel like it's because I disagree with most everything she says, not because I think they're scummy. Like she has her own view of the game that's just different than mine

[Tywin Lannister]

In fairness to alisae syr hasn't even posted yet this phase

She's confirmed not groupscum, so even if you think she's an sk her suspicions and thoughts are all legitimate; whether we agree with her or not is another matter, but she is a verified trustworthy voice if she's trying to eliminate the scumteam, no? We can call her wrong (I think she is) but we can't say that her ideas are coming from a malicious intent like you inply

Having said that I don't believe syr has a legit counterclaim because he was apparently "joking" and so his flip doesn't Damm alisae. If he were a vig then there should have been a 3rd corpse last night.


Disclaimer: if you can convince me alisae is SK then turbo lynch the fuck out of her regardless, but for now with me being unconvinced of that idc

I also don't agree that someone being not scumread makes them scum (re:pine) but uh he is totally coasting off his early townread

Pedit: so many posts

Sk's job is to survive. She does that not by killing off scum, but keeping it as balanced as possible for as long as possible. Eventually she needs to take out scum so she isn't teamvoted out by them when town is eliminated, but let's not pretend being an SK is pro-town. I'm just ignoring her slot as the obvious SK at this point. And I don't take her analysis as truth at all for obvious reasons. She's voting me, and I know I'm town, so what reason do I have to include her in anything anymore? I'm not going to vote her until it's time to take out the SK, but I'm not going to give her anti-town reads any real credence. She's been tunneling on me all day long for no legitimate reason, and the only reason she gets away with it is due to being SK. Let's not pretend otherwise. She's helping scum currently. First it was Lapsa she hammered. Then she NK'd the cop. Now she's after another mislynch. That's 3 townies. I'm positive she will NK the 4th tonight. So she IS effectively scum's best weapon right now. She is their easy win con, and they can just NK or vote her out whenever they decide her usefulness is up. To town, she effectively is scum for her play so far. It certainly isn't a helpful-to-town SK by any means.

[Cabd]

So full disclosure so this is a known thing and not an advantage of mine in or out of game: I'm IRL friends with Syr and know he's currently stranded without teh interwebz for the holidays. So everyone should expect to not hear from him for the next 24-48 hours; give or take.

[Cabd]

@everyone not named me: Should suspected but not proven to be Vig/SKs be leashed or instantly lynched?

[Tywin Lannister]

Alisae just stop arguing. You don't even know what you're saying. If you were the vigilante, you'd start a wagon on Syryana for his vigi claim, because he faked it and is scum. You'd have CAUGHT scum right there for the taking, but instead are trying to argue that it's WIFOM for me to assume a townie would want to lynch scum.

Just stop. You're not fooling anyone. You're scum's best weapon right now too. You've hammered a townie, NK'd a cop, and now tunnel another townie. You'll almost certainly hit a 4th townie NK tonight unless you completely hit scum by accident, so that will be 4 townies you've had a huge role in taking out. The problem you have is scum know you're the SK too, so as soon as you're done hammering and NKing all the townies, you're next. So it's already game over for you. You just don't know it yet.

[Tywin Lannister]

@everyone not named me: Should suspected but not proven to be Vig/SKs be leashed or instantly lynched?

Unless you truly believe in two vigilantes, and ignore everything alisae's done this game, then she is pretty much confirmed SK. I think we all need to go by that as a rule of thumb first.

[mozamis]

Okay so Alisae is confirmed SK. If she was vigi, she'd push against Syryana.

No she isn't. Maybe she knows she's telling the truth and thus doesn't need to call Syrana out on it?
Anyway, she is obv town, and once again you are just being emotional.

[mozamis]

I honestly believe you're scum. You've added nothing to the game, was on the Lapsa lynch, push for my lynch (I know I'm town) without reason, doesn't think things through about what info my flip will give if it flips town (and it will), doesn't look at Syryana or Alisae both claiming vigi, and has tried to derail the Kyouko wagon by going back to the easy mislynch (me).

Agree more about this.
Love to hear more from you Pine.

[Cabd]

SYRYANA IS NOT A FUCKING VIG OH MY GOD


It was painfully obvious he was kidding. Does nobody else see that?

[mozamis]

You have Cabd as strong town but not titus.

Beacuse:
1) reasons of pride. I strong scum read all day yesterday. Looks like I was well out of court. Unless

2) She's Sk/ 3rd party with a bow and arrow etc

But yeah, she is unl;ynchable unless we can pin 3rd party for sure on her, which seems unlikely.

[mozamis]

@everyone not named me: Should suspected but not proven to be Vig/SKs be leashed or instantly lynched?

Interesting one.
Complete knee jerk reaction: lynch. Get rid of unstable elemnts, might get rid of anti town, might get info.
Leasing sounds dicey. Think I was in a game once where it was attempted and backfired. And it derailed the thread I think.

[Cabd]

You have Cabd as strong town but not titus.

Beacuse:
1) reasons of pride. I strong scum read all day yesterday. Looks like I was well out of court. Unless

2) She's Sk/ 3rd party with a bow and arrow etc

But yeah, she is unl;ynchable unless we can pin 3rd party for sure on her, which seems unlikely.

She would have to be mafia doctor or Serial Killer. Nothing else is normal AND makes any sense.

[mozamis]

So updated reads.

Unlynchable today:
Me, Cabd, Titus, Alisea, Tywin

Prob Town: SSBM, Elbirn, Sonia

Scummy: Nero, Pine, AJ

Null: Nos, Sky, Gamma

[mozamis]

VOTE NERO

[Tywin Lannister]

SYRYANA IS NOT A FUCKING VIG OH MY GOD


It was painfully obvious he was kidding. Does nobody else see that?

Then his painfully obvious kidding caused our vigilante to claim. Not so obvious to me, and clearly not so obvious to Alisae. She believed it, and still does. Your post saying its a joke may give her a defense, but before that? She should have pushed Syryana on his claim, since she believed it enough to claim herself. Why didn't she?

Also, Syryana doubled down on it for 4 posts. That's a lot of kidding if you ask me. He also helped 'trick' Alisae into hammering Lapsa. Admittedly. So you TR that? I'm certainly not sure why. Just because you are friends doesn't mean he's confirmed town. If I did what he did, id be called scum for it.

[Cabd]

If I did what he did, id be called scum for it.

You would!

I don't townread him for it; I nullread him for it. Lemme pull up some examples of why.

[Tywin Lannister]

If I did what he did, id be called scum for it.

You would!

I don't townread him for it; I nullread him for it. Lemme pull up some examples of why.

Fair enough. All I'm saying is that vigilante Alisae should technically have pushed on Syryana's vigi claim. She believed him enough to claim herself, so I take that as she fully took his word. Due to that, she should recognize there aren't two vigilantes and said something, but she's ignored his slot entirely. I realize he's not here, but she posts zero thoughts on him. She won't go near it when asked. That's a huge red flag to me. It makes me strongly believe SK, and if she is the vigilante... then she has a lot to learn and needs to stop hammering/shooting town without thought. She didn't even think about what Syryana's claim could mean, which shows she either doesn't understand what's going on or she doesn't want to touch it due to being SK.

I'm talking in circles so if nobody else wants to listen, that's fine. I said what I think. If it were me in her shoes, I'd have pushed against Syryana's claim in a heartbeat. She already claimed, so she can't worry about scum knowing she's a PR anymore. Syryana would have to die if I were Alisae and believed his claim like she did. IMO

[Cabd]

If I did what he did, id be called scum for it.

You would!

I don't townread him for it; I nullread him for it. Lemme pull up some examples of why.

ISO "rift adrift" here and any post not signed "-f" is his:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=29264

(Bonus points for this being my favorite cabd-as-town play where I literally got scum to claim scum in LYLO)

Or here (my wife won this one yay)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29163

Or in isolation by himself; here's some other examples in more "normalish" games...

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=30057
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=34898 {This game might explain why mozamis was afraid of my scum rep, I successfully got an actual town mason to claim mafia-me as my mason partner. I later married that townie, irony abounds)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ire+emblem (As oil tycoons)

[Cabd]

The real question that needs to be asked; actually:

Alisae; what is your homesite? Where did you learn mafia?

[Pine]

Too much to reply to while phoneposting from Xmas party. I will engage the tripe coming from Tyson and mozamis in a few hours

[mozamis]

Too much to reply to while phoneposting from Xmas party. I will engage the tripe coming from Tyson and mozamis in a few hours

It is tripe with Holly on, I'll have you know. Let's keep it festive!

[Titus]

@everyone not named me: Should suspected but not proven to be Vig/SKs be leashed or instantly lynched?

Gundam Seed called.

I am limited access for me.

[Cabd]

You draw parallel between piegirl and alisae?