Newbie 1768: Party Mafia - Game over!

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Post Post #75 (ISO) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:28 pm

Post by GuiltyLion »

In post 65, bowdown wrote:- GuiltyLion, I'd love to hear more thoughts about this game specifically other than "sparkles why are you acting like a mod?"
I have been mulling over whether I think Jae's is sincere, as it's a bit of a curveball question to answer if you're scum. I know as scum I've bragged about my scumgame before (start here and read the subsequent discussion), because it projected a certain town-esque indignant attitude of "how dare I be [correctly] scumread, if I were scum you would think I was town", so the fact that they pointed out a shallow feature of their scumplay may indicate they're working with a town frame of mind. Regardless of their alignment in this particular game, it's probably a true self-assessment, so I'd keep it in mind later in the game (after a few game-Days) if you're town and you get the sense that they're faking emotions or forcing reads, and bring it up again.

I asked nancy that question about reads because I wanted to dig into why she was pressing Jae on his townreads, but felt a little rebuffed by :P However, I do think her 'gut scumread' on toejam looks genuine, I don't think newbie scum would have the bravado to post something like and refuse to try to explain the read. Light townlean there.

everyone else still pretty null. I like to let some conversations between other players breathe a bit because I find I generally make better reads from observing interactions rather than driving them. Whenever I replace into games, my reads are usually better than games where I'm posting from the getgo, and outside of RtR I have a bad habit of tunneling on town in D1. Newbie games I like to slow down and pace myself a bit more, partially because the games tend to get more involved in the "theory of mafia" anyway.
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"
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Post Post #76 (ISO) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:33 pm

Post by GuiltyLion »

In post 74, EccentricLemon wrote:Sorry, that's my mistake that I didn't reply to that comment.
I meant that no one was scummy so far. I was interested in where that vote might take the discussion. It didn't reveal that much new info to me, so keeping my vote there wouldn't do much and
might have even hurt me down the road
.
What do you mean by this? Why did you say it?
In post 74, EccentricLemon wrote:I can vote and unvote at any time, so unvoting wasn't an issue if I was trying to prove I'm not trying to be accusatory.
Why not be accusatory?
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"
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Post Post #77 (ISO) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:02 pm

Post by bowdown »

Lemon, I guess I am kind of dissatisfied with your response of "of course that vote was just to generate discussion". Did you learn anything from the lack of discussion?

I also am bothered by the same two quotes of yours in 74 that Lion posted in 76 and want an explanation for those.
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Post Post #78 (ISO) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:56 pm

Post by TriangleShark »

And here I was rearing up for a reply only to find that GuiltyLion essentially wrapped up everything I wanted to say about EccentricLemon in post 76. From my experience in in-person mafia, being accusatory, making mistakes, and seeing what unfolds amidst the successful or unsuccessful attempts at finding scum is the best way of winning for town in the long run.
Doubt them. Question them, suspect them, and take a good, long look into their hearts. Humans are the kinds of beings who can’t put their pain into words, after all.
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Post Post #79 (ISO) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:28 pm

Post by Agent Sparkles »

I haven't had much time to post today, I'll give an analysis in the morning.
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Post Post #80 (ISO) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:40 pm

Post by tojam2 »

In post 48, Agent Sparkles wrote:
In post 39, tojam2 wrote:Jae, I honestly can't work that out myself. Unless that's your way of stirring up conversation and starting the hunt, which I'm going to read you as Towny for.
This doesn't really resonate with me.
Stirring up discussion alone is something that anyone can easily do, and in my opinion, not a very good basis for reads
. JaeReed also earned some townie points with me for that post, but it's because of the way he purposely didn't explain himself and left it up to everyone else to think about, which seems like a genuine town strategy. I do think it's possible that you were thinking along these lines and just weren't as specific about it.
In post 42, nancy wrote:Your read only applies if everyone on mafia has the same personality or playstyle.
You could use this logic against countless types of legitimate reads. Just because not everyone has the same playstyle doesn't mean you should ignore the subtle differences in the styles of people's messages. People aren't computers; there's almost always some kind of sign that people are genuine or pretending.
In post 42, nancy wrote:@toejam I don't see that as a TR. Saying you've read him a Town for starting discussion seems to me like the start of buddying up, which I would read as scum
Maybe. I'm a bit hesitant to scumread him for that because of reasons I mentioned above.

I'll finish replying to messages after I eat dinner.
Anyone can do it, but what reason does scum have to actually do it?
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Post Post #81 (ISO) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:45 pm

Post by tojam2 »

@GL, I've never been a fan of p.1, baseless gut, having opinions prior to the game is noobscummy to me.
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Post Post #82 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:27 am

Post by EccentricLemon »

In post 76, GuiltyLion wrote:
In post 74, EccentricLemon wrote:Sorry, that's my mistake that I didn't reply to that comment.
I meant that no one was scummy so far. I was interested in where that vote might take the discussion. It didn't reveal that much new info to me, so keeping my vote there wouldn't do much and
might have even hurt me down the road
.
What do you mean by this? Why did you say it?
In post 74, EccentricLemon wrote:I can vote and unvote at any time, so unvoting wasn't an issue if I was trying to prove I'm not trying to be accusatory.
Why not be accusatory?
Well keeping my vote for GuiltyLion if I was trying not to be belligerent would have been a bad move because it would seem like I'm trying to throw him under the bus. Which is not what I'm going for. I'm not sure if I'm articulating what I'm trying to say correctly. I'll try to elaborate if my explanations don't make any sense.
We all know that at this point, everyone's basically out for themselves so there's no harm I think in pointing out that I did it in self-preservation.

I don't want to be accusatory because a mistake will likely make me seem scummier. If my aggressive actions get him hanged and he turns out to be town, people are going to come after me because I'm already suspicious. I mean, it seems like everything I say is making me more and more suspicious anyway.
Also I'm a newbie and I'm still learning how the game works and I don't want to try anything too (emphasis on the too) risky until I've had some experience. I'm seeing that posting what I said that early was a bad idea (?).
tojam2 wrote:@GL, I've never been a fan of p.1, baseless gut, having opinions prior to the game is noobscummy to me.
I never said anything that would allude to me having opinions prior to the game. At least I don't believe so. Attack me all you want for that, but I think I made it pretty clear that all of my observations are pretty nebulous but have at least some sort of basis in what people have said.
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Post Post #83 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:14 pm

Post by SirCakez »

Votecount 1.2

Image
EccentricLemon (3) - tojam2, bowdown, GuiltyLion
GuiltyLion (1) - Agent Sparkles
JaeReed (1) - nancy
Bulbazoor (1) - TriangleShark

Not voting (3) - Titus, JaeReed, EccentricLemon

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch someone.

(expired on 2017-01-16 11:14:00) remain until day end
Brian Skies - "
I just wanna say Cakez is an evil mod and this is an evil setup.
"

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Get to know a Cakez!
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Post Post #84 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:56 pm

Post by bowdown »

In post 82, EccentricLemon wrote:I don't want to be accusatory because a mistake will likely make me seem scummier. If my aggressive actions get him hanged and he turns out to be town, people are going to come after me because I'm already suspicious. I mean, it seems like everything I say is making me more and more suspicious anyway.
Worrying about how evil you sound instead of worrying about finding the evils is scummy. But this also feels like a natural reaction for someone new who's being run up early on D1.

So I'm going to UNVOTE: you for now because I want to see you hunting and not on the defensive - if your hunting sucks this vote is coming right back though.

VOTE: TriangleShark because two pages went by between your posts and all you could post was "someone else already said what I wanted to say"? Not only that but the post of GuiltyLion's that you cited was simply two quotes and three questions.

Also it feels super quiet. I know there's two weeks for each day but I wasn't expecting it to be this slow-paced.
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Post Post #85 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:45 pm

Post by JaeReed »

In post 65, bowdown wrote:- Jae, how concerned are you with Nancy's vote parked on you?
Somewhat. The issue is when someone gets a scumread they should be voting for said scumread, not parked on a null.
In post 67, nancy wrote:@Jae Thanks for clearing that word usage up. My vote was RNG. Votes are meaningless at this point, no?

@Jae & bowdown, I've got nothing on that gutread right now, sorry to disappoint.
Votes in RVS are meant for starting discussion in order to start the game.

That said, if you already have reads out of RVS posting you should follow up on those. So in the situation where you have a scumread of someone's first post that should be where you're voting, as well as trying to convince the rest of town why they should also be voting there with you (which is where looking in to why you have that gut read can be important).
"Jae defends his townreads like a fanatic" - Charloux
"On the issue of myself they go back and forth between overpowering paranoia and absolute certainty I'm town... it's kind of exhausting." - Nahdia
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Post Post #86 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:53 pm

Post by nancy »

In post 84, bowdown wrote:Also it feels super quiet. I know there's two weeks for each day but I wasn't expecting it to be this slow-paced.
Maybe you should try and instigate something then? There's plenty of material to go on. for instance, where toejam seems to me to insinuate that town should be more inclined to out their roles than scum would - isn't it actually the opposite? Or the fact that Titus and Jae are apparently no voting. Or that AgentSparkles and EccentricLemon still have no avatars. Is that a blending tactic or are they just unable to find a satisfactory image for themselves? Or did they not see , and does that mean that they have been skimming - not a particularly townie thing to do? Does AgentSparkle's humorless response to my jokes mean that he didn't read it carefully? He displays a sense of humor in and yet failed to detect it in my and , does that further suggest that he skimmed? Maybe others can comment on whether or not the joke is obvious enough.

Off I go to read some theory about D1 RL.
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Post Post #87 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:01 pm

Post by JaeReed »

In post 75, GuiltyLion wrote:
In post 65, bowdown wrote:- GuiltyLion, I'd love to hear more thoughts about this game specifically other than "sparkles why are you acting like a mod?"
I have been mulling over whether I think Jae's is sincere, as it's a bit of a curveball question to answer if you're scum. I know as scum I've bragged about my scumgame before (start here and read the subsequent discussion), because it projected a certain town-esque indignant attitude of "how dare I be [correctly] scumread, if I were scum you would think I was town", so the fact that they pointed out a shallow feature of their scumplay may indicate they're working with a town frame of mind. Regardless of their alignment in this particular game, it's probably a true self-assessment, so I'd keep it in mind later in the game (after a few game-Days) if you're town and you get the sense that they're faking emotions or forcing reads, and bring it up again.

I asked nancy that question about reads because I wanted to dig into why she was pressing Jae on his townreads, but felt a little rebuffed by :P However, I do think her 'gut scumread' on toejam looks genuine, I don't think newbie scum would have the bravado to post something like and refuse to try to explain the read. Light townlean there.
As scum I try to not lie. It's a personality trait more than anything. So regardless of alignment I would have tried to give an honest answer. I don't know if I would have quite pointed out that particular point, because it'd be shooting myself in the foot since it's harder to change up that kind of flaw rather than something like "I like to think about manipulating VCA", but I certainly would not have played up my scum play. I do not believe my play is exceptional regardless of alignment.

What do you think of nancy having a gut scumread on tojam yet voting elsewhere?
"Jae defends his townreads like a fanatic" - Charloux
"On the issue of myself they go back and forth between overpowering paranoia and absolute certainty I'm town... it's kind of exhausting." - Nahdia
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Post Post #88 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:15 pm

Post by JaeReed »

In post 82, EccentricLemon wrote:
In post 76, GuiltyLion wrote:
In post 74, EccentricLemon wrote:Sorry, that's my mistake that I didn't reply to that comment.
I meant that no one was scummy so far. I was interested in where that vote might take the discussion. It didn't reveal that much new info to me, so keeping my vote there wouldn't do much and
might have even hurt me down the road
.
What do you mean by this? Why did you say it?
In post 74, EccentricLemon wrote:I can vote and unvote at any time, so unvoting wasn't an issue if I was trying to prove I'm not trying to be accusatory.
Why not be accusatory?
Well keeping my vote for GuiltyLion if I was trying not to be belligerent would have been a bad move because it would seem like I'm trying to throw him under the bus. Which is not what I'm going for. I'm not sure if I'm articulating what I'm trying to say correctly. I'll try to elaborate if my explanations don't make any sense.
We all know that at this point, everyone's basically out for themselves so there's no harm I think in pointing out that I did it in self-preservation.

I don't want to be accusatory because a mistake will likely make me seem scummier. If my aggressive actions get him hanged and he turns out to be town, people are going to come after me because I'm already suspicious. I mean, it seems like everything I say is making me more and more suspicious anyway.
Also I'm a newbie and I'm still learning how the game works and I don't want to try anything too (emphasis on the too) risky until I've had some experience. I'm seeing that posting what I said that early was a bad idea (?).
tojam2 wrote:@GL, I've never been a fan of p.1, baseless gut, having opinions prior to the game is noobscummy to me.
I never said anything that would allude to me having opinions prior to the game. At least I don't believe so. Attack me all you want for that, but I think I made it pretty clear that all of my observations are pretty nebulous but have at least some sort of basis in what people have said.
Interesting choice of wording. Generally when we talk about throwing someone under the bus here it's referring to when mafia get their partners lynched ("bussing" their partner) in order to gain credit with town.

As far as everyone being out for themselves, they shouldn't be, regardless of alignment. As town your goal is to find scum and get them lynched, and to that end it doesn't matter if you end up making a wrong push, because there are a lot of other townies who should be trying to solve the game just as much as you are, who will hopefully talk to you if your read is wrong and explain why, or evaluate your actions to conclude that you were pushing with a town agenda in mind when you pushed the mislynch. As scum your goal is to mislead town into thinking that other town players are scummier than you and your partner, while trying to make false associations along the way in case you do end up getting lynched, in order to give your partner the best chance to survive.

Generally, you should not worry about how you look, and worry more about what motivations others have for their posts. Does GuiltyLion's townread on nancy seem genuine to you? Does bowdown's reaction to you in seem genuine? What motivations can you draw for them to make those movements as either alignment? Which one do you believe to be more likely? If unsure, it's good to question them on it.
"Jae defends his townreads like a fanatic" - Charloux
"On the issue of myself they go back and forth between overpowering paranoia and absolute certainty I'm town... it's kind of exhausting." - Nahdia
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Post Post #89 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:35 pm

Post by EccentricLemon »

In post 86, nancy wrote:Or that AgentSparkles and EccentricLemon still have no avatars.
I haven't been able to find a good image, before anyone starts interrogating me. I tend to be very picky with stuff like avatars. If I were trying to blend in, I just wouldn't post and hope people forgot about me.

I think nancy is doing the same thing I am in trying to be cautious--it IS the first day--but still stirring up conversation. She hasn't changed her vote for a bit, so I take that she isn't actively accusing anyone but more passively pointing out things she finds suspicious.
However, she has some experience with forum mafia, even if it is only a bit, and I wouldn't precisely consider her a newbie. She seems like she knows what she's doing.
In post 47, nancy wrote: My experience with forum mafia - I've modded 1 mafia and participated in 1 mafia on another non-mafia forum (this activity is ongoing). I've also read Vi's Jailbreak Mini and a small percentage of the material on mafiascum wiki, but neither of those would really count as "experience". Non-forum mafia - I played the party game as a child, and I joined up on EM 2-3 months ago. (I recognize kentofan from there, heh.)
In all, someone did say that the more aggressive Town is, the more successful they're going to be (sorry, can't find it in the thread) and I think that's what she's going for.

I'd also like to point out that tojam did accuse me pretty harshly about baseless gut accusing and having opinions prior to the game, both of which I don't think I am guilty of. Could be a sign of skimming or just me being an idiot again.
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Post Post #90 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:37 pm

Post by EccentricLemon »

Also, thank you Jae, that was really helpful.
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Post Post #91 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:26 pm

Post by nancy »

In post 89, EccentricLemon wrote:She seems like she knows what she's doing.
Oh I assure you, I have no idea!
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Post Post #92 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:30 pm

Post by nancy »

@Jae and Lion I also may have just inadvertently answered your question about my gutread with .
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Post Post #93 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:01 pm

Post by Titus »

VOTE: EccentricLion

Gut
Show
The scum had the misfortune of Titus being absurdly accurate on day one.Really quite impressed by that.~Drixx

You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin

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Post Post #94 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:23 pm

Post by nancy »

Are you voting for EccentricLemon or GuiltyLion?

Would you mind please giving reasons other than "Gut"? Your previous posts make no mention of either Lemon or Lion that I can see.
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Post Post #95 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:41 pm

Post by Titus »

VOTE: EccentricLemon

My bad. I am showing off the naked voting strategy, so not yet.
Show
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Post Post #96 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:25 pm

Post by nancy »

Color me intrigued.
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Post Post #97 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:10 pm

Post by bowdown »

In post 85, JaeReed wrote:
In post 65, bowdown wrote:- Jae, how concerned are you with Nancy's vote parked on you?
Somewhat. The issue is when someone gets a scumread they should be voting for said scumread, not parked on a null.
She did justify it by saying "votes are meaningless at this stage" - which I disagree with. I find it curious that she is now pressing Titus for vote rationale beyond gut - Nancy why is it okay for you to have had a scumread on tojam due to gut but Titus can't?

Also have to disagree that your vote has to be parked on a scumread. Your vote should be placed where you think it will do the most good for the entire town, which might not be on your worst read.
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Post Post #98 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:28 pm

Post by bowdown »

In post 86, nancy wrote:
In post 84, bowdown wrote:Also it feels super quiet. I know there's two weeks for each day but I wasn't expecting it to be this slow-paced.
Maybe you should try and instigate something then? There's plenty of material to go on. for instance, where toejam seems to me to insinuate that town should be more inclined to out their roles than scum would - isn't it actually the opposite? Or the fact that Titus and Jae are apparently no voting. Or that AgentSparkles and EccentricLemon still have no avatars. Is that a blending tactic or are they just unable to find a satisfactory image for themselves? Or did they not see , and does that mean that they have been skimming - not a particularly townie thing to do? Does AgentSparkle's humorless response to my jokes mean that he didn't read it carefully? He displays a sense of humor in and yet failed to detect it in my and , does that further suggest that he skimmed? Maybe others can comment on whether or not the joke is obvious enough.

Off I go to read some theory about D1 RL.
First of all I disagree that I haven't been instigating things. I'm curious as to how you came to that characterization. Haven't done more because I was waiting for responses to some of my questions, and seeing how others interacted with the game without prodding. You can learn a lot by not saying things. For example, I'm pinged by Titus for the second time entering the thread and not posting anything of much worth.

Quite frankly, most of the stuff you quoted I couldnt care less about. I read #9 as "hey noobs, don't post right away that you are excited you got an awesome role" from a more experienced player. I don't really care that Titus and Jar aren't voting yet - I care that Titus's posts have been crappier than Jae's, while Jae has a strangely knowledgeable tone (scummy) but is also the IC and is supposed to play the knowledgeable role. So I'm struggling to balance the IC aspect of Jae with my read on him.

Don't really care about the lack of avatars, and Sparkles not picking up on your humor doesn't concern me either - it's easy to read you posting "switching votes for dubious reasons" as an actual scumtell.

I feel (and maybe it's because I wasn't active in the thread until yesterday) that there is more meat to be dug into starting around page 3 - why are you only bringing up topics from the first couple of pages?
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Post Post #99 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:29 pm

Post by bowdown »

In post 95, Titus wrote:VOTE: EccentricLemon

My bad. I am showing off the naked voting strategy, so not yet.
Would love an explanation of the naked voting strategy.

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