Accountant's Utopia Philosophy

[Accountant]

It depends on the enviornment.

In a post-utopian society you could do it in a few months, but in a pre-flip society I would advocate relocation and hard labour to cleanse the soul

In a post utopian society they are already reeducated so the answer is 0

[pisskop]

There will never not be a need for dealing with fringe elements of s tightly controlled hivemind.

[Accountant]

There will never not be a need for dealing with fringe elements of s tightly controlled hivemind.

If its tightly controlled how can there be fringe elements

[Sesq]

Why would they shoot someone taking them to paradise?

Because you're an infidel who wishes to stomp on the kingdom of Allah.

[pisskop]

you realize that just because you can say something is 'tightly controlled' that doesnt make it true unless a method or methods of dealing with counter examples are present?

the methods create the status quo but the status quo cannot contribuite to the methods as completely?

the ss create the obedience but the obedience does not create or remove the need for ss

[Accountant]

Why would they shoot someone taking them to paradise?

Because you're an infidel who wishes to stomp on the kingdom of Allah.

I suppose they would be forcibly restrained and taught why we are not infidels.

[Accountant]

you realize that just because you can say something is 'tightly controlled' that doesnt make it true unless a method or methods of dealing with counter examples are present?

the methods create the status quo but the status quo cannot contribuite to the methods as completely?

the ss create the obedience but the obedience does not create or remove the need for ss

Methods for dealing with fringe elements: re-education, surveillance by govt and neighbours, suppression of freedom of speech, constant police presence. How are fringe elements supposed to even appear in this kindnof environment? It's not like random people suddenly become radicalized out of thin air.

The obedience is the endgoal, once we have obedience we win forever, no need to do anything else

[Dwlee99]

It's not like random people suddenly become radicalized out of thin air.

You're a counterexample to this.

[Not_Mafia]

Do you accept Kuroi's authority as your new king?

[Sesq]

Why would they shoot someone taking them to paradise?

Because you're an infidel who wishes to stomp on the kingdom of Allah.

I suppose they would be forcibly restrained and taught why we are not infidels.

As if you had the power to do that.

So far you have exuded failure to give any sort of examples as to fix this issue with your moral system. Why should I expect it to carry a country?

[pisskop]

you realize that just because you can say something is 'tightly controlled' that doesnt make it true unless a method or methods of dealing with counter examples are present?

the methods create the status quo but the status quo cannot contribuite to the methods as completely?

the ss create the obedience but the obedience does not create or remove the need for ss

Methods for dealing with fringe elements: re-education, surveillance by govt and neighbours, suppression of freedom of speech, constant police presence. How are fringe elements supposed to even appear in this kindnof environment? It's not like random people suddenly become radicalized out of thin air.

The obedience is the endgoal, once we have obedience we win forever, no need to do anything else

No, once you have 'obedience' within you have to worry about the obedience without.

Other nations, people who do not share your viewpoint, and people who 'escape' or find your regime too totalitarian will defect and its suddenly the People's Republic of China in your land.

The people without will be broadcasting radio transmissions that can stray into your land. the Internet can literally change your whole country, and free trade and such provide people, even just menial workers, with outside contact.

Rock music, slang, religious beliefs, the list of things that will make you new obedient

pets

citizens question their place is in-numerous.

Now, what about your international policy? Most isolationist states (and a 're-educated' post enlightenment society will be this for fear of the contagious nature of free-thinking) are defensive, suspicious, and even antagonistic. people will advocate war with you, especially if you are weak in military or world influence. You yourself may feel like using those enlightened

tools

defense forces to spread you enlightenment to others in other states. Ones that are too close and too 'disharmonious' with yourself to let you live peaceably. The US bought Alaska in order to deny our continent from Russia.

So now you need military forces and espionage. Now you need to maintain a secret police force, if only to provide counter espionage.

So now you suddenly need to worry about the world and the institutionalization of it. It doesnt end.

[Accountant]

Do you accept Kuroi's authority as your new king?

Where was he made king?

[Accountant]

As if you had the power to do that.

So far you have exuded failure to give any sort of examples as to fix this issue with your moral system. Why should I expect it to carry a country?

You asked me what my solution to the Middle East was. I outlined a clear plan. To restate, since you don't seem to understand.

1) Wait for the world to come into accord with the utopian philosophy as outlined in post 650.
2) "At some point, a vast majority of society will be perfect".
3) This vast majority will then use force to make the minority that have not yet converted obey and go for re-education in order to make them in accordance to the correct path rather than fighting each other in the Middle East.
4) The Middle East no longer has war.
5) ???
6) Profit

[Accountant]

you realize that just because you can say something is 'tightly controlled' that doesnt make it true unless a method or methods of dealing with counter examples are present?

the methods create the status quo but the status quo cannot contribuite to the methods as completely?

the ss create the obedience but the obedience does not create or remove the need for ss

Methods for dealing with fringe elements: re-education, surveillance by govt and neighbours, suppression of freedom of speech, constant police presence. How are fringe elements supposed to even appear in this kindnof environment? It's not like random people suddenly become radicalized out of thin air.

The obedience is the endgoal, once we have obedience we win forever, no need to do anything else

No, once you have 'obedience' within you have to worry about the obedience without.

Other nations, people who do not share your viewpoint, and people who 'escape' or find your regime too totalitarian will defect and its suddenly the People's Republic of China in your land.

The people without will be broadcasting radio transmissions that can stray into your land. the Internet can literally change your whole country, and free trade and such provide people, even just menial workers, with outside contact.

Rock music, slang, religious beliefs, the list of things that will make you new obedient

pets

citizens question their place is in-numerous.

Now, what about your international policy? Most isolationist states (and a 're-educated' post enlightenment society will be this for fear of the contagious nature of free-thinking) are defensive, suspicious, and even antagonistic. people will advocate war with you, especially if you are weak in military or world influence. You yourself may feel like using those enlightened

tools

defense forces to spread you enlightenment to others in other states. Ones that are too close and too 'disharmonious' with yourself to let you live peaceably. The US bought Alaska in order to deny our continent from Russia.

So now you need military forces and espionage. Now you need to maintain a secret police force, if only to provide counter espionage.

So now you suddenly need to worry about the world and the institutionalization of it. It doesnt end.

you realize that my utopian society spans the entire world. So all that bunk about international relations is irrelevant. There ARE no international relations. There's just one perfect society governing the entire world. There will be no other nations. There will be no people who do not share my viewpoint. There will be nowhere to escape to.

[Sesq]

As if you had the power to do that.

So far you have exuded failure to give any sort of examples as to fix this issue with your moral system. Why should I expect it to carry a country?

You asked me what my solution to the Middle East was. I outlined a clear plan. To restate, since you don't seem to understand.

1) Wait for the world to come into accord with the utopian philosophy as outlined in post 650.
2) "At some point, a vast majority of society will be perfect".
3) This vast majority will then use force to make the minority that have not yet converted obey and go for re-education in order to make them in accordance to the correct path rather than fighting each other in the Middle East.
4) The Middle East no longer has war.
5) ???
6) Profit

That isn't a plan, it's waiting. Why should I follow such an inflexible, rigid system, when it is so incompetent at basic problem-solving? Also, how can you guarantee that the utopia will come before the Middle East problem elevates to a world problem?

Also, your plan conflicts your post saying "the utopia spans the world".

[Not_Mafia]

Do you accept Kuroi's authority as your new king?

Where was he made king?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=69835

[Davsto]

Who wants a long-term avatar bet regarding which comes first - the majority of people following Accountant's utopian ideals or the heat death of the solar system? Id say it's pretty close.

[Accountant]

That isn't a plan, it's waiting. Why should I follow such an inflexible, rigid system, when it is so incompetent at basic problem-solving? Also, how can you guarantee that the utopia will come before the Middle East problem elevates to a world problem?

Also, your plan conflicts your post saying "the utopia spans the world".

Because it's inevitable. It's long-term, I'll grant you that, but it will definitely happen.

I can't, but it doesn't matter, because the solution works no matter how big the problem is. Unless everyone on this planet becomes convinced that the correct path is full of horrible infidels, the goodness of truth will eventually win out.

My plan is the plan to make the utopia span the world.

[Accountant]

Who wants a long-term avatar bet regarding which comes first - the majority of people following Accountant's utopian ideals or the heat death of the solar system? Id say it's pretty close.

I'm up for this.

[Not_Mafia]

lol

[Frozen Angel]

I wanted to see whats going on here so I checked 650 that you refereed as your idea

because perfection is finite and well defined(my moral system).

This is where I stopped reading this accountant

If you have a finite view to perfection and your moral system is limited, your ideas are practically screwed.

and Having a majority of well educated people will decrease the crime BUT as perfection is unlimited a new degree of crime will appear (to not be as perfect as someone else). Their all relative terms.

This world is not made based on equality. Its based on inequality and that's justified. Moving toward perfection Must be the goal or we will just stay at the point we are or will go backward toward destruction and extinction but that's so naive to think perfection is finite.

When you think about this and for one second try to put yourself as someone your calling criminal - They are not doing what they think is wrong. No one is. If they are, they are not sane. So why what you think is right and what they think is wrong? The answer is really simple actually

None of you are wrong or right. You are considered right because the majority of human race think that action is wrong and will damage other humans or the one who is acting like that in a way. So in another human society they might be actually the right ones and then you are the wrong one based on what they define. This is just how things work.

so Based on what we define as perfection we must move toward it but the fact we can't reach it makes that perfection! Its why this is an "ideology". If your dream is reachable your not dreaming good enough.

[Frozen Angel]

I'm Not saying a perfect world can't happen ^

I'm saying perfection is infinite

Please don't interpret my point wrong

[Sesq]

That isn't a plan, it's waiting. Why should I follow such an inflexible, rigid system, when it is so incompetent at basic problem-solving? Also, how can you guarantee that the utopia will come before the Middle East problem elevates to a world problem?

Also, your plan conflicts your post saying "the utopia spans the world".

Because it's inevitable. It's long-term, I'll grant you that, but it will definitely happen.

I can't, but it doesn't matter, because the solution works no matter how big the problem is. Unless everyone on this planet becomes convinced that the correct path is full of horrible infidels, the goodness of truth will eventually win out.

My plan is the plan to make the utopia span the world.

But before heat death, or we're all dead?

[Accountant]

Moving toward perfection Must be the goal or we will just stay at the point we are or will go backward toward destruction and extinction but that's so naive to think perfection is finite.

movign towards perfection MUST be the go, and when we reach perfection it is fine to celebrate.

because perfection CAN be reached. I can show you exactly what perfection looks like and how we can get there. It will only take a few centuries.

[Accountant]

That isn't a plan, it's waiting. Why should I follow such an inflexible, rigid system, when it is so incompetent at basic problem-solving? Also, how can you guarantee that the utopia will come before the Middle East problem elevates to a world problem?

Also, your plan conflicts your post saying "the utopia spans the world".

Because it's inevitable. It's long-term, I'll grant you that, but it will definitely happen.

I can't, but it doesn't matter, because the solution works no matter how big the problem is. Unless everyone on this planet becomes convinced that the correct path is full of horrible infidels, the goodness of truth will eventually win out.

My plan is the plan to make the utopia span the world.

But before heat death, or we're all dead?

Yes.