Newbie 1768: Party Mafia - Game over!

[GuiltyLion]

okay, so I went through and reread and I don't want to lynch {tojam, nancy, Lemon, Jae} today.

I most want to do this
VOTE: Revan

reasons forthcoming

[Titus]

Titus:

Did you learn anything either from your initial naked vote, or from me joining you on Lemon a couple pages ago?

Has your read if GL changed? I'm still townreading him.

Yes. It has taught me that my scumreads are likely correct given wagon reactions.

My largest wtf though is GL's most recent posting on that.

[GuiltyLion]

Bow down why are are you so inclined to vote Lemon, if Titus didn't even present a case that could?

To see what happens and try to sort out my scumreads.

That doesn't make any sense. If you wanted to see what would happen, you would've voted Lemon before Titus asked you to.

This sequence looks like Revan is stretching for reasons to interact/scumread bowdown. I don't like the subtle embellishment phrasing in 202 of "so inclined" to vote, like bowdown's vote was simply a vote, and it's not as if bowdown's scumread on Lemon wasn't established beforehand. One of my favorite tells is exaggeration/embellishment in pushing something, scum feel compelled to make their reads/cases sound more genuine and so they tend to add a subtle layer of aggressiveness when they comment that townies don't usually exhibit. Further, I think 203 is a sensible answer to Revan's question, I can't really grok Revan's comment in 204. bowdown sheeping Titus doesn't preclude things from happening, I feel if Revan was honestly engaging with bowdown's response then he would have considered that.

I like what bowdown pointed out in 211 as well.

But the big kicker is here:

I never scumread Titus, I voted her to get a reaction because I was having a tough time discerning her alignment.

This statement isn't congruent with Revan's ISO. Revan entered the game giving some townreads and then calls Titus "obviously scum" in 156. Even if this was intentionally meant to be hyperbole, if Revan were town the Titus scumread behind the post would still be genuine. However in 269 he's now claiming that he "never" scumread Titus - I think a townie might acknowledge that their read was weaker than they presented, but I don't think a townie would dismiss it entirely. It reads more like scum!Revan is nervous about what Jae pointed out in 243 and is trying to wave away the inconsistency between their "scumread" in Titus and their switch to Jae.

p-edit: maybe if you had waited for my forthcoming post it wouldn't be "wtf" to you? Why did you make that comment before I had explained?

[GuiltyLion]

What do you think of the questions Jae has asked so far (e.g. 88, 102)? Do you feel like they're from a protown perspective?

oops I forgot to respond to 88 actually.

response to 88: wasn't bothered by it
thoughts on 88: I could see it either way, if town!Jae is scumreading nancy then it makes sense to poke at me about it like that, but if scum!Jae were fishing for mislynch votes then it could serve that purpose as well. It's something to revisit on a nancy flip, and also slightly more informative now that Jae also has nancy as their top townread.

I think GL followed to the wrong question there. I think this was his answer to me for 87. I'd like him to look at 88 again and answer again in that case.

You're right here, I was looking at post 87. I think bowdown's point is more clear when looking at 88, those read to me like IC questions rather than town game-solving questions. I wouldn't (and didn't ) give you any towncred for 88

[tojam2]

ElectricLemon's phrasing suggests she knows that nancy is town. In 68, she says nancy isn't trying to "prove her innocence", why not say she is not trying to appear town? Minor, but it caused me to want more of a look.

EL also makes a big deal about how he's not pushing anyone, as if sbe doesn't want to upset anyone. Her "push" if you can call it that, fades when "the cool kids" unvote. She makes a big deal about how she's not accusing anyone.

Then, she throws a comment that me playing quieter means that there's a 1 v 1 with conftown.

Or you're the conf town, like last time we played a newbie together.

[tojam2]

Also you misgendered EL at least once in that quote.

[tojam2]

But we do need to decide on a lynch in the next 48 hours before we rush a mislynch.

[GuiltyLion]

Her "push" if you can call it that, fades when "the cool kids" unvote. She makes a big deal about how she's not accusing anyone.

also Titus if you're going to make this point, I'd like you to directly address EL's response to me in 89 and Agent Sparkles in 140. Those posts read genuine to me.

[GuiltyLion]

But we do need to decide on a lynch in the next 48 hours before we rush a mislynch.

this is hard to do without Agent Sparkles voting and with a number of legacy/vanity solo votes (EL on tojam, tojam on nancy). At this point in time I think the onus is on you three to make consolidation happen. Normally I'd include Jae in this group too but I trust them to start voting/pushing a lynch before we get too close to deadline. At the very least you can talk about players you're not willing to lynch.

[JaeReed]

Titus:

Did you learn anything either from your initial naked vote, or from me joining you on Lemon a couple pages ago?

Has your read if GL changed? I'm still townreading him.

Yes. It has taught me that my scumreads are likely correct given wagon reactions.

My largest wtf though is GL's most recent posting on that.

Refresh me since I'm reading at the start more than recent posts. You think it's EL and who?

[JaeReed]

^ Nevermind I just remembered the EccentricLion slip.

I think Lion is town here. This is more in-depth and subtle analysis than I saw from him in his scumgame.

[GuiltyLion]

also Titus if you're going to make this point, I'd like you to directly address EL's response to me in

89

82 and Agent Sparkles in 140. Those posts read genuine to me.

sorry, this should have been 82, not 89

mixing up post numbers left and right

[JaeReed]

@Jae According to what I understand about this game, I find your comments re Lemon wagon to be scummy. You don't seem very confident in your TR on her, I'm certainly not, and you've previously stated that L-2/1 is a great way to force people to prove themselves. Please explain to me why I'm wrong.

I somehow find myself agreeing with bowdown's earlier assessment that pressure on Lemon won't do much good. Regardless of alignment I think votes piling on her will just cause her to flail more, which isn't helpful if she's town.

[JaeReed]

@Titus 236 can I get your opinion on that please?

[JaeReed]

^ specifically on my thoughts about how those posts more point to town!Lemon than scum!Lemon

[JaeReed]

@Jae 247

On you and tojam being scum together: there is you immediately calling tojam a town read along with sparkles, tojam sheeping you, tojam's awkward 39 tiwnread of you for stirring up conversation. Plus the post that really put the idea in my mind:

I learn a lot more without people sheeping me.

This reads a lot like "hey scumbuddy, knock it off"

Now this is all a moot point with town-tojam, but I definitely thought Jae-tojam scumteam was decently likely.

Breaking up my response to you into a couple posts since I'm on my phone.

Soft answer to this: I was more concerned about the newbies sheeping me than having the SE's sheep me. I know that the SE's generally have some prior experience scumhunting, where newbies can tend to be a bit of a coinflip. Added bonus: town ICs tend to die N1. So it's best to make sure those more likely to survive are thinking things through on their own, since the team could also be two SE's.

[Revan]

@GL how would my Titus scumread still be genuine? That makes no sense. I figured the best way to get a reaction is to call them out as "obviously scum" to get them panicked that they got caught so easily.

[Revan]

I guess Titus's no response is a bit of a towntell, then? I would think scum are more focused on self-preservation and would defend themselves.

[bowdown]

Hey Revan, can you go more in depth into Jae's 143 and why you're reading Jae as scum for it?

[bowdown]

I guess Titus's no response is a bit of a towntell, then? I would think scum are more focused on self-preservation and would defend themselves.

Exhibit B of you just going through the motions of scumhunting. Titus has been completely ignoring your pressure for pages and just now you decide that might be a towntell? You called him out as obvscum like 5 pages ago - I feel like if you were actually hunting you'd try to assess the reaction before GL called you out on it.

Exhibit A is you totally missing that Jae didn't even have responses to respond to earlier.

[bowdown]

Nancy - I could see Jae-Lemon. I also could see Jae-Titus, and would rather go Jae than Lemon. But IMO Revan is scummier.

[bowdown]

Hey GL, question for you that's bugging me: You voted and made a case on me, and then now follow me onto Regan. It feels weird, especially given that:

- You already followed me once onto Lemon

- Of the three people who have been posting the most (Jae, Nancy, and myself) I am the only one with a townread on you.

I don't know if it's a thing or not, but it's really bugging me.

[Revan]

I feel as though their 143 is a contradicting statement. They say that their questions make people question the game state, and their purpose is for scumhunting. How does this translate? How does someone thinking about the gamestate give Jae knowledge of who's scum and who's town?

[Revan]

I guess Titus's no response is a bit of a towntell, then? I would think scum are more focused on self-preservation and would defend themselves.

Exhibit B of you just going through the motions of scumhunting. Titus has been completely ignoring your pressure for pages and just now you decide that might be a towntell? You called him out as obvscum like 5 pages ago - I feel like if you were actually hunting you'd try to assess the reaction before GL called you out on it.

Exhibit A is you totally missing that Jae didn't even have responses to respond to earlier.

I can't assess a reaction that isn't there. There literally was no reaction. I was planning to assess Titus's reaction; if it was overdefensive, showed signs of distress, or if Titus remained calm and collected.

[Revan]

^ Nevermind I just remembered the EccentricLion slip.

I think Lion is town here. This is more in-depth and subtle analysis than I saw from him in his scumgame.

I also scumread this. I scumread anyone for meta-reading. Meta reads are just an easy way out for scum. "x is y because this isn't their z game"