Star Wars Rogue One [GAME OVER]

[ɀefiend]

Anyone want to give me a quick run-down while I re-read?

[ɀefiend]

UNVOTE:

[ɀefiend]

OK, read the whole game. I have a lot of conflicting thoughts about many players, but at this point I am pretty confident that

@mastina

and

@Heartless

are town, so I would appreciate some help sorting through these thoughts and maybe pointing out things I missed.

I like

@Nero Cain

's points about Titus and I feel a lot of players are sleeping on her this game. However I do not like Nero's thoughts on mastina because his scumlean(?) read on her seems poorly or under-developed. I feel that mastina's defense against his concerns (re: the timeline of game events, and the motivations behind Pine and mastina's actions) was legitimate.

However, I also like

@Titus

' issues with Infinity. I do believe he has been opportunistic (hell, he even admitted as much D1) with respect to wagoning. His read on mastina also feels unnatural, propelled in part by a combination of paranoia and the general tendency of others (re: Nero & Heartless (at times)) to pressure her. On the other hand, I dislike the fact that Titus' scope and breadth of other players in the game is quite narrow. I would feel more comfortable with the slot if she attempted to engage others with more vigor.

I initially liked

@Infinity

's push to get the game rolling, so-to-speak, and that has always been a personal town-tell I use. I cannot definitively point to anything Infinity has pushed or pressured organically, but at the same time, he does ask beneficial questions and probe efficiently when things are "happening" in the thread. I feel uneasy about this slot, but not necessarily worried. Infinity, do you feel that Titus' game-long push on you is a non-issue?

I believe Heartless already asked this question, but

@DrunkenPiper

: if you tracked Pine to nacho N1, wouldn't you also have tracked him to BBmolla? If you didn't, isn't that confirmation that BBmolla is lying about being vanillaized? I don't know how Firebringer would resolve that but maybe you should ask him.

@SirCakez

: You asked me to specifically look at the Pine interactions. I noticed, while reading D1, that you continually regarded the Pine-wagon as a poor lynch. You and I both know that I have been burned by reading too heavily into something like that before (re: College Mafia, where you soft-defended scum on D1). The key difference this game, however, is that the scum in question has flipped earlier than 3-way LYLO, yet nobody else seems to be calling attention to these associations (besides Infinity's VCA). What exactly were you hoping I gleaned from analyzing the Pine interactions?

The LUV/Peregrine slot is actually pretty null for me and hopefully Peregrine will contribute more.

I am comfortable sheeping mastina on BBmolla -- his content is unsatisfactory, mastina pointed out a key logical fallacy (re: SirCakez--Aj the Epic D1 voting patterns) that seemed to get buried, and the gambit actually seems quite plausible.

I would also lynch Aj toDay for a collection of pinging behavior I recall from my reread. I would have to dig deeper and review to shore up that scumread, but for now I just wanted to get my initial thoughts out there.

[ɀefiend]

(As DP slept off his last tear, conversation exploded. but he saw this that caught his eye, he will do the other catch up later)

I believe Heartless already asked this question, but

@DrunkenPiper

: if you tracked Pine to nacho N1, wouldn't you also have tracked him to BBmolla? If you didn't, isn't that confirmation that BBmolla is lying about being vanillaized? I don't know how Firebringer would resolve that but maybe you should ask him.

you can do this math, if that was the case,
then I wouldnt be talking about BBmolla in this time and place.

hmm, think hard new guy, think hard, try not to use any aids.
and you will probably figure out that I am a...............

I can't for the life of me think of any role that rhymes with aids. I'm gonna take your earlier post that BBmolla isn't confirmed at face value.

[ɀefiend]

I have been very busy in the afternoons recently so I haven't been able to reread yet. Titus looks like scum on hiding so ya not changing my vote. .

How does Titus looking like scum cause your vote to stay on AJ? I feel like I'm missing an important connection you've made or I'm misunderstanding this post.

[ɀefiend]

VOTE: zefiend

scum catch up

Why?

[ɀefiend]

Scum is in {AJ, aero, pere, TWIE, molla}

Mastin convinced me that molla is possible but not that's it's likely.

Have to ISO cakez but I doubt he's in there.

You're a townread because of Pine's treatment of you, not because your reads are right.

Sell me on this, please.
I wasn't seeing it while reading.

[ɀefiend]

I feel that mastina's defense against his concerns (re: the timeline of game events, and the motivations behind Pine and mastina's actions) was legitimate.

I think Mastina's timeline jazz is just fucking strongly worded bullshit but if you actually read it then it makes no sense. For all intents and purposes we'll assume Mastina is scum in this post. Like Pine had a role that publicly outs his action. Both him and Mastina would know this. Her main argument here is that scum wouldn't know who was getting into the crew, however, this totally ignores that Heartless

DID

state who she wanted in the crew. Why does she gloss over that? Also, from what I understand, Pine joined late so its possible that scum used their action once it was confirmed there was no scum in the crew.

So explain to me why I should just accept that Mastina is town and their history let her scum read Pine. When A.) it makes sense to bus a player that will eventually go down. B.) She was strong arming said lynch with little to no reason. Why couldn't she have just said "oh this post and this post and this post gives me bad vibes." As long winded as she is she could have done so and I don't think she ever did wich I think is sketchy as fuck.

The only problem I have with your logic is when you say Pine "will eventually go down." I don't know if there's credence to that statement before the guilty result comes out.

As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.

[ɀefiend]

@Nero
Interesting. You know, from an outsider perspective, the whole You (Nero)-Titus-Infinity triangle is perplexing. You keep hinting at lynching or flipping Infinity or possibly even that he's scum. You do know that that's Titus's top push?

Or is Infinity more like a "wait til more flips to reassess" type of lynch?

[ɀefiend]

As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.

You have stated that I'm scum three times now, with absolutely zero reasoning.

Consider this post me formally calling out your shade-tossing.
This is so scum

[ɀefiend]

Whoops posting on mobile is hard sometimes.

You have stated that I'm scum three times now, with absolutely zero reasoning.

Consider this post me formally calling out your shade-tossing.

[ɀefiend]

I don't know if there's credence to that statement before the guilty result comes out.

So Pine has a role where he joins the crew when he wasn't invited. Like why would he not instantly become a leading hotbed of activity?

Yeah, the role sounds bad.

You're saying you think Pine and mastina would have planned the whole thing out from the time she was "scum-reading" him?

It's a hard pill for me to swallow.

[ɀefiend]

I don't know if there's credence to that statement before the guilty result comes out.

So Pine has a role where he joins the crew when he wasn't invited. Like why would he not instantly become a leading hotbed of activity?

reply

-_- stop doing this, I'm on mobile right now and eventually there will come a time where I can't reply right away.

[ɀefiend]

Walk me through this. Reading anything with people not completely caught up is a pain in the ass and I want to say Aeroslot is scum (from earlier, helps explain why no counterwagons early) but unless you're referring to generic waffling mastin!read then I'm blind to the issue.

It's that his paranoia isn't genuine. Of course not all of his reads are just going to be determined by what other people think, and it doesn't make much sense for town with no particular reasons to scumread someone to get paranoid just because other people think that person is scum. Especially since it's only a couple people who think mastin is scum. I think he's setting up for the possible opportunity to lynch a strong town player because he can't resist it.

What the fuck are you talking about?

I read the thread and gave my initial read on mastina. Since then, two people with more tenure have engaged me and I'm trying to walk through their perspective with them. Where did I ever say my read on mastina is now scum or I would consider lynching them?? I said that my position on town-reading mastina based on tone/unlikely to bus Pine was flexible with the proper input.

At this point your are being glaringly dense or scum grasping for straws. There is no way a town mindset concocts some sort of interpretation where my read of mastina flips 180 because of a brief conversation with two players.

[ɀefiend]

with absolutely zero reasoning.

That post was a bunch of empty analysis and busy questions

The question directed at cakez also feels quite fake

If you want me to elaborate say so (I'll probably do so tomorrow anyway). But don't say stuff that's not true

Vague statements like yours do not amount to reasoning. They are nothing more than shade.

And now you have completely manufactured a story to label me suspicious when none of the elements of that story existed in my catch-up post.

[ɀefiend]

Walk me through this. Reading anything with people not completely caught up is a pain in the ass and I want to say Aeroslot is scum (from earlier, helps explain why no counterwagons early) but unless you're referring to generic waffling mastin!read then I'm blind to the issue.

It's that his paranoia isn't genuine. Of course not all of his reads are just going to be determined by what other people think, and it doesn't make much sense for town with no particular reasons to scumread someone to get paranoid just because other people think that person is scum. Especially since it's only a couple people who think mastin is scum. I think he's setting up for the possible opportunity to lynch a strong town player because he can't resist it.

What the fuck are you talking about?

I read the thread and gave my initial read on mastina. Since then, two people with more tenure have engaged me and I'm trying to walk through their perspective with them. Where did I ever say my read on mastina is now scum or I would consider lynching them?? I said that my position on town-reading mastina based on tone/unlikely to bus Pine was flexible with the proper input.

At this point your are being glaringly dense or scum grasping for straws. There is no way a town mindset concocts some sort of interpretation where my read of mastina flips 180 because of a brief conversation with two players.

I never said your mastin read flipped. I said you're setting up to flip it.

This reaction is beyond fake.

Attempting to solve the game and sort my reads is not a setup of anything.

VOTE: infinity

Literally everything you've said has been sh@allow shading or blatant invention about my gameplay.

[ɀefiend]

Gotta go to class but hopefully this scumfuck is lynched before I get back. I can't even.

[ɀefiend]

VOTE: zefiend

scum catch up

Why?

bc you use a ton of words to say not very much and the reads themselves are so cookie cutter and meh

talk about this more when not on a phone

anyway back to this

in the opening post i feel like he's just sort of going through the motions and dryly pointing out things that MIGHT be scummy but there's really no direction to any of the thoughts and most all the reads just kind of end up in this weird limbo. i'm not really seeing any effort to go beyond surface level or any attempt to say what the most LIKELY situation is. it's the appearance of "gamesolving" without really solving anything.

I started reading an 80 page game at 9 pm, and between several breaks I didn't finish til 4 am. Maybe I should have waited to post with a clearer mindset, but I really just wanted to get my true, initial feelings down the moment after finishing reading. It wasn't an meant to be anything beyond superficial feelings and reads, but it was meant to give everyone an idea of where my thoughts lay upon an initial catch-up.

The weirdo limbo thing is because I genuinely feel like there's a conundrum between players with regards to their reads (for example, Titus, Nero, and Infinity) and I was hoping to pry further into these nuances. I started chipping away at Nero, and we made some progress, but Infinity's primary reaction was to discredit my efforts and fling absolute bullshit. Titus probably doesn't care one way or another now that she has a supporter for Infinity lynch.

TL:Dr: I wanted to establish a baseline personal "feel" of the game so that I could work off of something as I get in stride. I didn't want to just come out with reads and progression that makes no sense with zero background context. My catch-up at least provides some context and I'm was more comfortable moving forward with one like that.

[ɀefiend]

I made a catch-up post because I believe it beneficial for myself and others who want to productively engage with me in syncing with the game.

I did the exact same thing when I replaced at a similar point in the game in RC's League of Legends Mafia: gave my opinion on all the players, said who my top townreads were, and said who I was willing to lynch. I also talked about major talking points I would like to consider while moving forwards.

If you really think that's scummy I can't help you anymore.

[ɀefiend]

I made a catch-up post because I believe it beneficial for myself and others who want to productively engage with me in syncing with the game.

I did the exact same thing when I replaced at a similar point in the game in RC's League of Legends Mafia: gave my opinion on all the players, said who my top townreads were, and said who I was willing to lynch. I also talked about major talking points I would like to consider while moving forwards.

If you really think that's scummy I can't help you anymore.

i mean.... you can help me by talking more about reads and why you have them

maybe start w/ infinity?

On mobile so I can't make a really good case wall with quotes and such, but here's the rundown.

He shaded my catch-up, I ignored it because I was busy talking to others. Then while I was talking to Nero, he kept shading me, so I told him to stop it whilst bringing forward no reasoning. His reply was that his reasoning was that my analysis was bad and I was asking pointless questions. I told him that this wasn't saying much of anything and just casting more shade. (The difference between you and him is that you actually articulated what about my catch-up bothered you and hopefully trying to understand it. His motive was to simply discredit).

Then

in reply to Nero, he concocts a moonshine gasoline theory that my conversation with Nero was pre-emptively setting myself up to push for a mastina lynch later on. He acts like this is his gold standard of reasoning, even though it was derived after originally calling me scummy. Furthermore, the premise is completely illogical. What the hell are my motivations with progressing a fake read on mastina from town to scummy? If I wanted to portray mastina as scummy why wouldn't I just bring up a bunch of fake issues with her in my catch-up post? I obviously read the thread and know that some people scumread mastina, so why wouldn't I just latch on to that to begin with? He's asserting that my attempts to be transparent with my mastina read are somehow bogus... *because I'm suddenly asking others for their input on mastina*... it's a scum tactic to discredit and disparage legitimate conversations and I believe that is exactly what he's doing.

[ɀefiend]

I do believe he has been opportunistic (hell, he even admitted as much D1) with respect to wagoning.

ok, like this. here's a concrete assertion about infinity and what he's done.

when did this happen and where was it scummy?

Can't dig up to quote the exact posts b/c mobile, but

Towards the end of D1, with around 3 real-life days left, he is getting antsy about wagons and expresses discontent with trying to move the current wagon. Several people tell him his worries are unfounded. In reference to "admitting" something, I also recall him saying something along the lines of "I'd rather lynch town than no one." When push came to shove, though, he had no qualms about actually moving the wagons around. I may have to review the timings of those D1 wagons to get a better picture but overall, I don't think his voting nature was genuine and I would definitely describe it as opportunistic.

[ɀefiend]

Zefiend, you cannot help scum.

I don't even know who you're referring to at this point.

[ɀefiend]

Then in reply to Nero, he concocts a moonshine gasoline theory that my conversation with Nero was pre-emptively setting myself up to push for a mastina lynch later on.

errrrrk

ok so here's your reply to nero in question:

The only problem I have with your logic is when you say Pine "will eventually go down." I don't know if there's credence to that statement before the guilty result comes out.

As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.

i'm also wondering why you caved so easily when nero challenged you on the mastin townread. that was supposedly one of two confident townreads you said you had in your first post and that gets washed out by... what exactly? you didn't consider the possibility of mastin bussing, nero had to bring it up first?

i would think you'd stand up for the read more than you did.

What the hell are my motivations with progressing a fake read on mastina from town to scummy?

staying out of nero's way. bend the read without necessarily breaking.

i like moonshine gasoline as much as the next guy, but i don't think it's crazy.

Feel like I'm talking to a brick wall but here goes.

Of course I considered that mastina could have bussed. I felt strongly on my gut that her tone was not in line with someone who was bussing. I laid all of this out in the forefront. Then Peregrine and Nero both made statements that suggest their experience with mastina or her alts or hydras lead them to believe mastina's range this game could very well include bussing. I am glad that these two players ACTUALLY ENGAGED my catch-up post instead of just flat out attacking and sliding it, because I give deference to their opinion about mastina and I will use that going forward (when Nero and/or mastina comes back).

If you think I am the type of player to hold tightly to my town reads you are mistaken. I am primarily a scum hunter.

[ɀefiend]

You attempting to help SirCakez.

Why did you think I wouldn't care about reading your posts?
Why do you think the unhealthy spam argument hasn't been made about infinity besudes by me?

Help SieCakez how?? I feel like you are narrating something happening in an entirely different game or I'm eternally distracted.

Because when you tunnel you don't care why someone has your support as long as they do. Pretty sure you've said something like that before but I'm not in any rush to dig through all our games together to find it.

I am joining your cause to make that argument too. It's not just unhealthy, it's tactically scummy.

[ɀefiend]

zefiend, just because I didn't explain in a ton of detail right when you wanted me to what specifically bothered me about your catchup because I was tired doesn't make me scum. I even said you can ask me to elaborate if you wanted, but instead you just use it as a reason to call me scum.

Your "elaboration" was inventing a reason from my exchange with Nero -- which happened AFTER you originally called me out. You didn't have shit to begin with and you just reached for the first thing you could think of.

I don't see how "scum townread player x but waffled on the read when other people disagreed to possibly set up to vote them" is as crazy as you make it sound. Scum!you probably couldn't even find any justifiable reasons of your own to scumread mastin, and sheeping or using obviously bad reasons would have issues of its own. I find it hard to believe that, as town, you would start to reconsider a confident townread after one person told you you should. There are a bunch of people saying mastin is town, why trust nero and pere over them?

Pure misrepresentation. I like how you add in "possibly to set up to vote them" - this is blatant construction of a narrative that you have no idea about. Nero and Peregrine's disagreements simply caused me to reflect and reevaluate.

You are focusing on my dialogue with Nero and Peregrine for the wrong reasons. They were particularly influential to me because they ENGAGED me on the exact points I was thinking mastina couldn't have bussed. Why would I NOT consider their opinion when they are saying the exact opposite?

Your reaction to all this is so overblown, and the fact that you think it's so obviously scummy that I didn't elaborate as much and you wanted me to and think it's so ridiculous that scum could set up to change their read is scummy in and of itself.

Circular reasoning is circular reasoning is circular reason-...

[ɀefiend]

If you really think that's scummy I can't help you anymore.

SirCakez posted his spoiler before this heavily redacted post.

You cannot help SirCakez see scum because he is scum.

Didn't even notice that post.

It is worrisome that he brushed off my very forward question about Pine to him.

He also said I'm scummy which is apparently very easy to do right now; also a red flag.

I am here Titus. I am listening.

[ɀefiend]

If it looks like an Infinity, walks like a SirCakez, and talks like a mastina...

The question directed at cakez also feels quite fake

VOTE: zefiend

As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.

This is so scum

As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.

This is so scum

Yeah looking at his recent posts agreed.

...

...

These two posts are terribad.

As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.

Okay. zefiend's previous posting was null enough: it wasn't town, but it wasn't something I felt was a strong indicator of being scum.

This?

This, though? Pure scumposting.

@Nero
Interesting. You know, from an outsider perspective, the whole You (Nero)-Titus-Infinity triangle is perplexing. You keep hinting at lynching or flipping Infinity or possibly even that he's scum. You do know that that's Titus's top push?
Or is Infinity more like a "wait til more flips to reassess" type of lynch?

Did I say zefiend's last post was pure scumposting?
I take it back.
zefiend's last post is fucking SAINTLY compared to this.

THIS is essence le scum.

What the fuck are you talking about?

I read the thread and gave my initial read on mastina. Since then, two people with more tenure have engaged me and I'm trying to walk through their perspective with them. Where did I ever say my read on mastina is now scum or I would consider lynching them?? I said that my position on town-reading mastina based on tone/unlikely to bus Pine was flexible with the proper input.

At this point your are being glaringly dense or scum grasping for straws. There is no way a town mindset concocts some sort of interpretation where my read of mastina flips 180 because of a brief conversation with two players.

And this is more scum posting in case there was any doubt to be had.

...
Same with this scumbutt. He was just looking for an excuse to start discrediting, like he's doing with infinity.

The feeling when {Infinity, SirCakez, mastina} are unironically the scumteam. Wow.

Three players, all saying I'm scum, with no evident reasoning. Infinity defending mastina, SirCakez defending Infinity, and mastina posturing on SirCakez. Let's not forget that SirCakez slid a very pointed question I had for him about Pine. Or that now SirCakez is trying to line up lynches:

Are you really that confident about Titus?

Like zefiend has been... slightly more high key about his alignment with his flailing.

yes, last time I was this confident about her she was scum too (Street Fighter)

Titus will get away though <.<

no don't give me that

zefiend is scum. you see it. i see it.

let's get this done.

Will you help lynch Titus tomorrow?

Let's not forget Infinity claiming mastina was a poor lynch D1 because mastina's a strong player, but also willing to move freely between Klingon and Thinker. Or how about the fact that Infinity wanted Pine for a majority of D1, felt he was the best, scummiest lynch, but abandoned that with no natural progression.

Here are the posts for consideration,

@Heartless

, that comprise the case I was trying to explain to you earlier. Read them and tell me there is no inconsistency with Infinity's mannerisms towards EoD D1.

Spoiler:

I wanna vote thinker with you but I don't think we can get 5 other people to do it in 3 days.

All players, may I have your attention at this time, this is unfortunately not your rogue leader speaking. Please place your votes on a player who has at least 3 other votes on them at this time. Thank you.

Would you rather lynch yourself? Cause I still am not down for AJ and we have 3 days left

Infinity, he's right. You're even calling out now that Mastina as scummy and how you might be playing in to her scum plans.

So what's up with that?

Pine is the scummiest viable wagon imo, so I voted pine. Thats all there is to it.

Post 165, 182, 746, 891 of you thinking I'm town and then you vote me out of "shaking things up" and argue that deadline is the reason you advocate a lynch on who you're voting for.

That's suspect as fuck.

Say what you want, but I'd rather lynch town than no one. And you disappearing after being so active definitely dropped you in my reads.

24 hour days means a lot more activity within those hours. On ms people are offline, inactive, etc or just stubborn so in my experience quick compromises usually don't work out.

Key word is usually

It's 3 days is the deadline. That means people are forced to come online at least one more or two more times to not be prodded meaning they have to produce content. Now, I'm always up for smashing D1 going over everything that happened and then break the day and conclude who's scum in a town jam of 24 hours or less.

All I need is a couple people who are willing to be hyperactive with me for a few solid hours going over each player and GG.

/Gin

Ok we'll see what happens. So again who do you want to try to wagon and why?

You said I was the scummiest viable wagon, not somewhat scummy

You're a null for me I guess. But uh...those things aren't mutually exclusive

Because you're the scummiest player who I think can be lynched today.

I'd rather lynch town than no one.

Titus, you have a chance of being right if LUV wasn't a wagon.


Infinity, you got me fucked up saying you just vote who you think you can lynch instead of voting who you think is the scummiest.

I think you're the only one on LUV atm

Unfortunately, with 3 days left, I feel like I can only vote realistic lynches. Yes of course it's possible to get 5 people to change votes in 3 days, but it's not worth the risk to me.

Infinity, Nacho, Desperado, and Aeronaut are my choices.

You only get 3

VOTE: klingon

Yeah the pine vote was probably dumb in the first place

Sorry, not today. Even if it was realistic mastin is too good of a potential town player to get rid of d1.

Klingon [5] Inf, desp,

cakez, pine

, titus
mastin [1] nero
Pine-A-Tonics [4] mastina, Klingoncelt, Nachomamma8, piper
SirCakez [1] Aj The Epic
Lil Uzi Vert [1] heartless
Aj The Epic [1]

BBmolla

The Thinker [2] TheWayItEnds, Lil Uzi Vert

Not Voting - [2]

Aeronaut

,

The Thinker

Basically, the whole Pine wagon is town.
The Klingoncelt wagon has two scum on it.
The Thinker wagon was strongly town, but has weakened. The SirCakez wagon was also town, but has disintegrated.
There's scum in the remnants of the AJ wagon (Molla), and scum not taking a stance anywhere. (The Thinker/Aero, stronger on TheThinker.)

Very interesting, our reads differences, although small, happen to lead us to opposite conclusions about the alignments of the 2 top wagons. Because I townread cakez and nullread pine, making the kling wagon mostly town. And I scumread you and klingon, making the pine wagon scummy.

Stop this nonsense and vote klingon or convince some people to vote thinker.

Because klingon is scummy enough that I don't care

I have an idea.

In everyone's next post they say everyone they are ok with lynching. Then we run up whoever appears the most. It could be manipulated by scum, but it can also catch them floating their buddies at nullscum.

{kling, molla, thinker}

Even if you don't like that idea, making sure we lynch someone should be everyone's top priority.

VOTE: thinker

Let's see if this gets traction

Let's try again and if it doesn't work hopefully TWIE and heartless will join us on klingon or smth

Not today, it isn't worth the risk of her being town.

Can you do thinker or klingon?

Well there were some things klingon said that seemed to have a town tone. Not enough to make them town, but enough to make them townier than ari who was just fake all over the place and didn't scumhunt at all

WTF? You keep making these really bizarre statements. What's the difference if you scumread them both?

I'd rather lynch someone I have a stronger scumread on

My main worry with this is that ari won't come back, we'll lynch him and then he'll be a PR. But there's not much we can do about that at this point

By the way, you are no longer engaging me in good faith. I have tried to explain everything to you. Despite you saying that you understand my points, you are conf-biasing based on my entry post. Your DEFAULT is to assume everything I'm saying afterward is bullshit even though I'm being transparent as possible with my thought process. There is no productive development here. You are claiming to meta read me when you there is plenty of conflict in my meta. 1) I showed you a game

that you were in

where I did the exact same sort of catch-up post as town, 2) you assume me to be the type of player who holds my town-reads in high esteem when I am quite the opposite, 3) and you claim that because I didn't ask Nero & Pere for games, I shouldn't take their opinion into account -- I have NEVER asked ANYONE in ANY game I've ever been in to "supply" games for meta tells (the only time I've asked for games is in 3-way-LYLO as a clear, to have more information). I judge things based on the context of the current game. Titus can vouch for me on that as we've completed two recent games where I held strongfast to that mentality with regard to meta.

-----

SirCake into the scumpile also.

Yes, he is, and I'd be happy to bus him if you'd vote with me there! Push come to shove, if nothing else.

SirCake into the scumpile also.

Yes, he is, and I'd be happy to bus him if you'd vote with me there! Push come to shove, if nothing else.

Let's see it.

Vote: SirCakez

This. So much this.

VOTE: SireCakez

[ɀefiend]

Read them and tell me there is no inconsistency with Infinity's mannerisms towards EoD D1.

yeah.... what i see is a bunch of quotes and i STILL have no idea what the conclusion i'm supposed to draw from them is. what's supposed to be out-of-sorts here?

By the way, you are no longer engaging me in good faith. I have tried to explain everything to you. Despite you saying that you understand my points, you are conf-biasing based on my entry post. Your DEFAULT is to assume everything I'm saying afterward is bullshit even though I'm being transparent as possible with my thought process. There is no productive development here.

so throwing a bunch of quotes at me constitutes the good faith effort on your part and now it's back on me?

nice try, but that's not "engagement"

1) I showed you a game that you were in where I did the exact same sort of catch-up post as town

....and the fact that you had that game on-hand tells me you're very ACUTELY aware of the meta so... no, no townie-points for you.

2) you assume me to be the type of player who holds my town-reads in high esteem when I am quite the opposite,

given that the probability of townreads are FAR more likely to be accurate than scumreads just through sheer numbers, this is a very illogical habit, but whatever...

and you claim that because I didn't ask Nero & Pere for games, I shouldn't take their opinion into account

now you're misstating my issue. the issue isn't "taking other people's opinions into account." it's "there's this strange absence of YOUR own judgment and/or curiosity in this WHOLE process." that should be present even when you're taking other people's opinions into account. ESPECIALLY when the "other people" are null reads. unless you're in the habit of taking null reads' opinions at face value and there's no fucking way

Read the quotes in the context of my earlier summation case on Infinity. There is blatant pandering to wagons (KoC and Thinker, both town btw), avoidance to wagon (mastina), and dissonance between words and actions on the Pine wagon. All of this directly contrasts with a "no time to act" mantra he was spewing.

This was your initial problem with my post:

VOTE: zefiend

scum catch up

Why?

bc you use a ton of words to say not very much and the reads themselves are so cookie cutter and meh

talk about this more when not on a phone

anyway back to this

in the opening post i feel like he's just sort of going through the motions and dryly pointing out things that MIGHT be scummy but there's really no direction to any of the thoughts and most all the reads just kind of end up in this weird limbo. i'm not really seeing any effort to go beyond surface level or any attempt to say what the most LIKELY situation is. it's the appearance of "gamesolving" without really solving anything.

I brought up the RC game to show that my intentions were exactly the same, I wasn't TRYING to be anything but superficial. I was trying to lay out my first-read-thru thoughts on paper and that's what I did here.

How was I not taking my own judgment into account? As a first time player with mastina I picked up on a pure tonal read on her which led me to believe she was town. As the only person who commented on her tone this game (besides perhaps herself) how can you assert that my independent thoughts weren't going into this process?

Peregrine was null as of the catch-up post because of the LUV slot. But he immediately towned it up and made several points about mastina. That in combination with Nero's points heavily challenged my one-dimensjonal read on mastina and so I promised to reassess. For some reason you're not seeing this progression as a good thing and instead just conf-biasing through all my explanations. Look at the depth of my play since then and get with the program.

[ɀefiend]

cakez, please vote zefiend

Like, you're not even reading the substance of my posts. You're just brigading all of my other content. How do I know this? You admitted you follow my explanations and yet you don't even acknowledge my efforts at hunting other players (even though you asked for me to help you understand my reads)

This tunneling is utter shit and I'm moving around until I see otherwise.

[ɀefiend]

@Nero, read my points on SirCakez and then try to convince me he's town. Protip: you cant. Also Titus is off the table. She's town this game.

[ɀefiend]

That in combination with Nero's points heavily challenged my one-dimensjonal read on mastina

what were these points?

This is the bulk of the conversation with Pere and Nero about mastin

Spoiler:

I feel that mastina's defense against his concerns (re: the timeline of game events, and the motivations behind Pine and mastina's actions) was legitimate.

I think Mastina's timeline jazz is just fucking strongly worded bullshit but if you actually read it then it makes no sense. For all intents and purposes we'll assume Mastina is scum in this post. Like Pine had a role that publicly outs his action. Both him and Mastina would know this. Her main argument here is that scum wouldn't know who was getting into the crew, however, this totally ignores that Heartless

DID

state who she wanted in the crew. Why does she gloss over that? Also, from what I understand, Pine joined late so its possible that scum used their action once it was confirmed there was no scum in the crew.

So explain to me why I should just accept that Mastina is town and their history let her scum read Pine. When A.) it makes sense to bus a player that will eventually go down. B.) She was strong arming said lynch with little to no reason. Why couldn't she have just said "oh this post and this post and this post gives me bad vibes." As long winded as she is she could have done so and I don't think she ever did wich I think is sketchy as fuck.

mastin not giving specifics is NAI

maybe maybe not. Sure I've seen town not give reasons but that's bad town play. I'd like to think that Mastin is not bad.

I think scum are plenty capable of doing so. Infact you keep going on about how you've played with Titus scum. She hard defends/town reads her buddies all the time.

Yeah I'm not really buying into the whole "no way would I bus Pine since we are besties from way back." I think you'd bus him/he'd want to be bussed if it gave scum a tactical advantage. As soon as he used his ability he was very likely to get lynched and scum would have known this day 1.

I'm no where near having read the whole game, but I started with a Pine ISO and jumped into points there.

@Mastin-

My biggest issue with your claim is the point in time you came up with your Pine scumread (post 512).
You then "read", and confirm it with your vote 520.

this is followed by "Molla might be scum" (521). Based on progression, this read comes from:
[...long ass spoiler...] Which looks like a bunch of /Gin posting

But, by 584, you have sloidifdied that Pine-a-tronics is scum.

At least she's Town this game.

Yes I am! You, however, are your usual scumfuck self!

And this:

Pine is also scum. I prefer to vote Pine, in spite of SirCakez being scum, because lynching scum is lynching scum. The who or the why isn't as important as the act itself. Obviously I'll vote SirCakez if I can't lynch Pine. That goes without saying. But Pine is the scum I would prefer to lynch, because my scumread there is not only stronger, it is also on a firmer basis (I know Pine better), with better reasons, and also on someone who WILL slip away if you let him go.

Meanwhile, neither head of the hydra tries really hard to break you from your read, nor do they try to engage you that I can see. If your sure Pine is scum based on his 5 posts, yet the Gin side does nothign to affect your read?

Sounds kind of fake.

Triple ISO of Pine-Mastin-Molla

Code: Select all

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=69912&f=3&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select%5B%5D=28641&user_select%5B%5D=29138&user_select%5B%5D=16026&user_sort=Go

I feel that mastina's defense against his concerns (re: the timeline of game events, and the motivations behind Pine and mastina's actions) was legitimate.

I think Mastina's timeline jazz is just fucking strongly worded bullshit but if you actually read it then it makes no sense. For all intents and purposes we'll assume Mastina is scum in this post. Like Pine had a role that publicly outs his action. Both him and Mastina would know this. Her main argument here is that scum wouldn't know who was getting into the crew, however, this totally ignores that Heartless

DID

state who she wanted in the crew. Why does she gloss over that? Also, from what I understand, Pine joined late so its possible that scum used their action once it was confirmed there was no scum in the crew.

So explain to me why I should just accept that Mastina is town and their history let her scum read Pine. When A.) it makes sense to bus a player that will eventually go down. B.) She was strong arming said lynch with little to no reason. Why couldn't she have just said "oh this post and this post and this post gives me bad vibes." As long winded as she is she could have done so and I don't think she ever did wich I think is sketchy as fuck.

The only problem I have with your logic is when you say Pine "will eventually go down." I don't know if there's credence to that statement before the guilty result comes out.

As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.

Pine & Mastin interaction was zero. And most of the "Pine" was the other hydra head.
Mastina did not "sort" PineTornics, she already knew he was scum.
And he didn't fight it, no matter how often she repeated it over and over again, because no way did they want a 1v1 with each other.

[ɀefiend]

...

This post just doesn't show a genuine attempt to evaluate people. A lot of the points he brought up are either things other people said or are very vague/waffly statements. Town would probably try to ask probing questions if they were unsure, or try to come to a conclusion on the game state. He likes nero's points on titus and likes titus's points on me. Ok, am I or is she, or are we both scum? He doesn't even try to answer these questions. In general he doesn't give a big picture view on the game, he doesn't even notice that he may have too many scumreads, he just say things about different players. The questions he asks seemed to be busy questions, the one to cakez doesn't seem to be alignment-indicative and the one to piper was already asked.

Not only that, he somehow suddenly dropped his scumreads on molla and AJ and his suspicions on titus just to scumread the people who are pushing him. Too much of an inconsistency to come from town imo. Also he went from not giving any big-picture opinions about the scumteam to claiming to know the entire 3-person scumteam. Yeah no. Rope.

What are you not understanding about "laying all my initial thoughts on the table and getting a baseline to work from?" The post wasn't meant to explore in-depth evaluations on people. That is what I'm doing now.

How is the question to SirCakez not important? I feel like a lot of people are overlooking it. He explicitly asked me to look over people's interactions with Pine. When I did, I noticed that he (SirCakez) was defending Pine. Here's the posts I dug up (everything you see as "..." is extraneous content; I don't wanna make this post too long):

The amount of text in this game just doubled in a page
I'm excited for another round of arguing with mastina

What are your first impressions on Mastina?

/Gin

Still think the slot is town, just irritated that she's going to be annoying me by holding her cryptic scumreads over my head while being completely closed to engagement

Scum bantz.

I'm amazed that everyone hasn't auto-sheeped Mastina.

VOTE: Pine-A-Tonics

This is pretty cruddy, for obvious reasons

Thinker - you asked for a case on infinity. But what do

you think

about him?

NAI/light defense,

[Nero Cain, BBMolla, nacho]
[Drunken Piper, Lil uzi vert, Desperado, AJ, mastin]
[SirCakez, Klingoncelt, Infinity 324]
null line ---> [Titus, TWIE, Aeronaut]
[Pine-A-Tonics]

Only one scumread??

NAI/light defense,

(...)

[Nero Cain, BBMolla, nacho]
[Drunken Piper, Lil uzi vert, Desperado, AJ, mastin]
[SirCakez, Klingoncelt, Infinity 324]
null line ---> [Titus, TWIE, Aeronaut]
[Pine-A-Tonics]

Only one scumread??

yep

OH NOES SO BAD SO SCUMMZMZMZMZMZMLKS;JF;LKSAJDFLJDSA;FJ;LSAF
/FROOOOTH

settle down, buckaroo. i'm well aware i probably have a scum or two above the null line (or more if i'm really shitting the bed). tth is going to run quality control this weekend.

I thought you had more for some reason (besides Thinker). And I disagree with your one scumread :/

Light defense,

(...)

I'm a bit worried that heartless is scum given nacho (I think?) talking about how good their scum game was and that they haven't really been obvtown. Then nacho voted them for rogue leader so what?? Also want nacho to explain why he now townreads the thinker.

Yeah that was a pretty bull 180 by Nacho. Feels like he's following the crowd, he's hardly engaged with the game.

This Pine wagon sucks, I'd prefer any of Klingon, Thinker and AJ

Medium defense, no reasoning,

This Pine wagon sucks,

??

They're town. (...)

Strong defense, no reasoning.

You're lagging the game with your refusal to drudge out of your attack on my initial post. The way you frame my posts as actions leading to "set-up" other things without evaluating the substance is scummy to me.

[ɀefiend]

@AJ, Thank you, but why the fuck did you claim?

A.) Don't trust Molla's claim in light of my knowledge (...)

Actually I want to know more about this. Does it have to do with power balance as Titus said or...? You said you only targeted SirCakez so what does that have to do with Molla's claim?

[ɀefiend]

I think one of {molla, cakez, mastin} is scum. Zefiend is another scum. The third is either TWIE or maybe titus or pere. Or there's only 2 scum.

That's why I'm only voting zefiend today, lol. Too many possibilities.

If you're going to make pre-flip associations like this, explain them.

If you think I'm scum who are my partners and why.

If you can't explain why they're scum without relying on me flipping scum, then your entire post right here is bullshit.

[ɀefiend]

i jokingly questioned mastins read on me.

i seriously questioned titus's

because mastins made sense and titus's did not.

Oh

One of the points I brought up against Mastina is...basically Mastina was arguing that the scum had no clue who was going to be in the crew. I countered her point that Heartless made it very fucking clear who they wanted in the crew. Yes, I get it it that town can miss things but I think its suspicious that she did. Maybe he thought it was a good point and changed his read...idk man.

Ok but the way he did it wasn't genuine. The way he said it made it seem like just the fact that you engaged him made him reconsider the read, which doesn't make sense.

Just because you didn't read the conversation between Nero and I, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

The case on him is not waffling. It's lack of original opinions, lack of big-picture gamesolving and wild inconsistencies like dropping his scumreads on molla, AJ, and titus.

More scum-framing here. You are basing this ALL on a catch-up post. What have I been doing since then if not explaining my progression? Oh yeah, defending against all the shit you're slinging here.

Molla -- not gonna sheep someone I think is scum now (mastina).
AJ --- this guy obviously claimed AFTER my post.
Titus --- never "scumread" her. I said things I liked and disliked about her slot. I can say she is town now.

You're trying to detract from my other content with a bullshit distraction case based on a single catch-up post. I think you're scum for it.

[ɀefiend]

Also I'm full JK and locked Cakez two nights in a row. This was said in the claim.

VOTE AJ

I probably dont need to read anymore,
seeing I didnt get a "no result" on cakez, you whore.

I will continue reading, to see what this is to see.
but unless i was redirected, the next scum has been caught, who wants to thank me?

This needs to be clarified ASAP. Just PM Firebringer.

The reason why I say this is (NOTE THIS IS FROM ANOTHER GAME):

Let's just be clear here. If there is/was a tracker in the game, they would receive NO RESULT if the player tracked is role blocked. They would also receive NO RESULT if the player is jail kept. If the player does not visit anyone, they would receive PLAYER DID NOT VISIT ANYBODY. Finally, if the tracker was blocked, then the tracker would receive NO RESULT

Firebringer was actually the Jailkeeper in that game. Myself, Titus, SirCakez, and Aristophanes were also in that game for what it's worth. Aeronaut's interpretation of Jailkeeper in that game goes against what some of y'all are saying is normal/standard on MS.

Titus was a tracker who targeted a

JK'd player

N1 and got "no result," then told that was an error and he visited "no one," then told that the original reply was correct.

On N2 she targeted a

RB'd player

and also got "no result."

So it's plausible that Firebringer is using that interpretation. All Dancing Piper has to do is ask. Also, even if SirCakez actually "visited no one," that doesn't necessarily make Aj scum.

[ɀefiend]

@Firebringer, I'm gonna be V/LA until Tuesday, February 6. I live in Houston and am going to be very busy for the next few days due to the Super Bowl.

[ɀefiend]

I'm here. Gonna be busy with class and reports all day so I'll get to this tonight.

Dunno if I'm at L-1 or what's going on since I haven't skimmed yet... I'm VT. Character special ability is a 1-shot boost to target's character special ability. I also identify the base character special ability of my target.

[ɀefiend]

I'm here. Gonna be busy with class and reports all day so I'll get to this tonight.

Dunno if I'm at L-1 or what's going on since I haven't skimmed yet... I'm VT. Character special ability is a 1-shot boost to target's character special ability. I also identify the base character special ability of my target.

Any info to report at this time, esp. that may confirm/deny existing claims?

Haven't used the ability yet. FYI, it doesn't check abilities derived from Roles. It checks special abilities which presumably everyone (including VTs) has.

[ɀefiend]

Rhetoric. The fact that Infinity was up for RL at one point and wanted others has shit all to do with anything.

False. Timeline has everything to do with it.
Your whole point boils down to:
"Heartless was the Rogue Leader. Heartless made their picks known. None were scum, thus, scum knew they weren't being picked. Thus, they knew that Pine would use his role. And therefore, mastina knew Pine was going down and could bus them."
THAT'S YOUR FUCKING ARGUMENT.
BUT IT IGNORES.
HOW HEARTLESS WASN'T EVEN CLOSE TO BEING THE ROGUE LEADER AT THE TIME.
At the time, Infinity was the Rogue Leader vote.
And Infinity had me as a pick.
The chronology doesn't fit. So no. Not rhetoric. That'd be YOU, bringing up an irrelevant point.

I don't get how this is a counterpoint.

If a scum got into the crew they would be able to tell Pine and perhaps he wouldn't use his ability. Whether he decides to use the ability or not isn't a requirement for you to bus him.

[ɀefiend]

cake plz vote zefiend
mastin plz vote zefiend

I'm predicting SirCakez will refuse (or maybe he'll join briefly, but leave for some bullshit reason), because they are in fact scumbuddies.

The problem is, I can help you lynch either of them, yet you won't give me anything in return. You won't help me lynch BBMolla when they flip scum, and that's the only thing which can make me switch. If you're going to be pursuing town after you lynch scum, it's not worth it. It's only if you pursue scum after lynching scum that it's worth a vote.

I KNOW that if I lynch BBMolla, you will continue to go after zefiend, maybe considering SirCakez.
I know that if I lynch zefiend, you'll be quick to pursue some moronic mislynch.

Am I wrong?

Tell me that, when zefiend flips scum, you'd consider going after BBMolla. Tell that to me with a straight face, absolute 100% sincerity. Do that, and you'll get my vote there. Otherwise, I'm sorry. No matter how much zefiend may be scum, I simply cannot in good faith vote there.

What's your stance on all this now that I'm about to be lynched? Considering SirCakez and BBMolla have just voteparked on me.

[ɀefiend]

Basically, to give an idea of my thoughts right now, it's that there's a lynch order, just like before.
BBMolla > SirCakez > zefiend.

zefiend is caught scum. Easily caught scum. Everyone sane knows he's scum. We can nab him at any time, and on future days if he's alive he'll not be able to escape. He IS eating rope this game, no matter what.
SirCakez is scum, and a fair majority of us know he is. And yet, he is not without key players defending him. That could cause long-term interference. He's not someone I think will make it to endgame as scum. He's someone I THINK will be getting lynched no matter what. But I don't actually KNOW it. It's possible he will escape. So, not the best candidate, but not the worst.

BBMolla is scum, but everyone is resisting the idea he is. Most of the key players this game insist he is town. This is an incredible danger, ESPECIALLY given his claimed role--if he actually has it and isn't vanillaized, he has the potential to absolutely DEVASTATE the town's PR usage. He is also likely the one in charge of the scum's NK after Pine died, so I see him as the greatest threat, and thus the best lynch.

I will compromise on SirCakez if I can't get BBMolla.
I will compromise on zefiend if I can't get either SirCakez or BBMolla.
But I still have that as my preferred lynch order, because I still hold true to Molla being the largest risk factor here.

Why aren't you addressing the fact that I was the first person to bring up any semblance of a case against SirCakez and how does that possibly fit into your bunk theory that we are scum together?

[ɀefiend]

do you trust me+tth's judgment?

On zefiend, yes.
But that's our common ground.
If we lynch our common ground today, we get to do a whole song and dance of disagreeing, of diverging, tomorrow, and that won't be fun, because both of us will want credit for zefiend, both saying, "You trusted me yesterday, why not today?!?", because it was our fucking common ground. I've held a suspicion on the zefiend slot since late D1. I don't need to tell you he's scum, just like you don't need to tell me he's scum. But again. My concern here isn't today, in lynching scum.

It's future days, in lynching scum.

I want to lynch scum in the future.

I don't think lynching zefiend today will allow us to do that.
It'll be a scum lynch, yes! That will be a good thing, yes. But it's not the scum lynch I think we need.

I don't know how to better convey this. Basically. zefiend as scum tells us nothing we don't already know. We know he's scum. He can be lynched at any time. We lose nothing from lynching him, and lynching him is better than nothing and better than a mislynch. But we also gain nothing. That's my problem. I see you talking about zefiend being scum. I see Infinity talking about zefiend being scum.

But who else are you scumreading?
Who else do you think is scum?

Because without a clear direction there, lynching zefiend doesn't offer much, now, does it?

I suppose you could say, my posting today is mostly focused on getting it so that we have a clear picture of what to do after today. A clear picture of how to lynch scum consistently and constantly. Rather than scatter to the wind chaotically.

This is totally not buddying while distancing from a mislynch so as to absolve yourself toMorrow... /s

[ɀefiend]

ftr if a Titus wagon ever got going I would un-votepark asap

Look, I get it. You're scum and so from a survival standpoint, it makes sense to be on my wagon. Your distinct lack of talking about any of your reads in-depth (besides this messy convo with Heartless about AJ) is evidence that you're just gliding by and squatting on your vote because there's no danger in doing so right now.

[ɀefiend]

If a scum got into the crew they would be able to tell Pine and perhaps he wouldn't use his ability. Whether he decides to use the ability or not isn't a requirement for you to bus him.

pine having an expiration date on him b/c of the ability is a part of nero's explanation for why mastin could've bussed and it's been hammered on for the last umpteen pages now

I know... you do realize I have been agreement with Nero for some time now, especially as it relates to the whole "timeline" argument?

Unless of course you are still pretending I didn't adequately express that to you. You know, I find it bananas how you and others can latch onto my SirCakez "case" so easily by parsing the quotes I provided, but you can't parse the quotes from Nero and Pere I provided that clearly show what I found appealing about their points vs. mastina.

It's almost like you're... confirming a bias of some sort.

[ɀefiend]

Also I'm currently 10-11 pages behind so if I'm missing something that seems obvious... just bear with me while I catch up.

[ɀefiend]

What are you not understanding about "laying all my initial thoughts on the table and getting a baseline to work from?" The post wasn't meant to explore in-depth evaluations on people. That is what I'm doing now.

How is the question to SirCakez not important? I feel like a lot of people are overlooking it. He explicitly asked me to look over people's interactions with Pine. When I did, I noticed that he (SirCakez) was defending Pine. Here's the posts I dug up (everything you see as "..." is extraneous content; I don't wanna make this post too long):

First of all, no you're not evaluating people in-depth right now and you never did. You just called 3 people scum that were voting you and dropped 2 other scumreads entirely. Not to mention you didn't even consider possible scumteams

Second of all, the question to cakez seems bad because, well, if you think the interactions with pine make him seem scummy, vote him. That doesn't mean pine interactions weren't a good thing to tell you to look for. With a flipped scum, interactions with that scum are one of the most important things. I don't see particular motivation for scum!cakez to ask that if his interactions with pine looked particularly bad; in fact, he'd have motivation not to ask it. But anyway telling you to look for pine interactions to help you figure things out makes sense regardless of his alignment and regardless of what those interactions are.

I just don't understand how someone can make posts like these without being scum.

I brought up points about Cakez and voted for him, and Infinity is completely ignoring this and continuing to say I'm doing nothing. The second paragraph is just loaded with WIFOM: "maybe he had motivation, maybe he didn't... it doesn't matter what his alignment was for asking that question" Clearly I am not the only person who thinks these things are important. That's WHY I brought up the question in the first place.

[ɀefiend]

I think one of {molla, cakez, mastin} is scum. Zefiend is another scum. The third is either TWIE or maybe titus or pere. Or there's only 2 scum.

That's why I'm only voting zefiend today, lol. Too many possibilities.

If you're going to make pre-flip associations like this, explain them.

If you think I'm scum who are my partners and why.

If you can't explain why they're scum without relying on me flipping scum, then your entire post right here is bullshit.

Ok, all you had to do is ask...

This is mainly a PoE list. Nero is town because he's playing very strongly to his town meta and I don't think he can fake this tone as scum. Heartless are town because they're putting in so much effort to solve the game and I haven't seen anything worrying from them. Also I agree with a lot of their reads. Piper is town because of the guilty on pine and because I've liked his thoughts throughout the game. AJ is town for his claim.

The leaves the players in the list there. You know why I think you're scum. I think either mastin is right on one of her scumreads or is scum herself, because of BoP. (The other one of molla/cakez should also be in the other group). Then I have TWIE who I have only a slight lean scum on, and my weak townreads pere and titus. LUV was null for me but I liked pere's catchup so far, and Titus's play doesn't make much sense to me as scum even though it seems like bad play.

Ok, that's where I'm at with this game.

You didn't explain how your other scumreads are my partners. At all. And yet you berate me for "not considering scumteams." The hypocrisy is real.

[ɀefiend]

cake plz vote zefiend
mastin plz vote zefiend

I'm predicting SirCakez will refuse (or maybe he'll join briefly, but leave for some bullshit reason), because they are in fact scumbuddies.

The problem is, I can help you lynch either of them, yet you won't give me anything in return. You won't help me lynch BBMolla when they flip scum, and that's the only thing which can make me switch. If you're going to be pursuing town after you lynch scum, it's not worth it. It's only if you pursue scum after lynching scum that it's worth a vote.

I KNOW that if I lynch BBMolla, you will continue to go after zefiend, maybe considering SirCakez.
I know that if I lynch zefiend, you'll be quick to pursue some moronic mislynch.

Am I wrong?

Tell me that, when zefiend flips scum, you'd consider going after BBMolla. Tell that to me with a straight face, absolute 100% sincerity. Do that, and you'll get my vote there. Otherwise, I'm sorry. No matter how much zefiend may be scum, I simply cannot in good faith vote there.

Ok, nero cain.

But yes, I'm considering the possibility of scum!molla now in fact. Not sure about heartless, but if you convince me molla is scum I will vote there. Good enough?

Now this post gives me pause.

Maybe Cakez/Infinity/BBMolla?

[ɀefiend]

That in combination with Nero's points heavily challenged my one-dimensjonal read on mastina

what were these points?

This is the bulk of the conversation with Pere and Nero about mastin

Spoiler:

I feel that mastina's defense against his concerns (re: the timeline of game events, and the motivations behind Pine and mastina's actions) was legitimate.

I think Mastina's timeline jazz is just fucking strongly worded bullshit but if you actually read it then it makes no sense. For all intents and purposes we'll assume Mastina is scum in this post. Like Pine had a role that publicly outs his action. Both him and Mastina would know this. Her main argument here is that scum wouldn't know who was getting into the crew, however, this totally ignores that Heartless

DID

state who she wanted in the crew. Why does she gloss over that? Also, from what I understand, Pine joined late so its possible that scum used their action once it was confirmed there was no scum in the crew.

So explain to me why I should just accept that Mastina is town and their history let her scum read Pine. When A.) it makes sense to bus a player that will eventually go down. B.) She was strong arming said lynch with little to no reason. Why couldn't she have just said "oh this post and this post and this post gives me bad vibes." As long winded as she is she could have done so and I don't think she ever did wich I think is sketchy as fuck.

mastin not giving specifics is NAI

maybe maybe not. Sure I've seen town not give reasons but that's bad town play. I'd like to think that Mastin is not bad.

I think scum are plenty capable of doing so. Infact you keep going on about how you've played with Titus scum. She hard defends/town reads her buddies all the time.

Yeah I'm not really buying into the whole "no way would I bus Pine since we are besties from way back." I think you'd bus him/he'd want to be bussed if it gave scum a tactical advantage. As soon as he used his ability he was very likely to get lynched and scum would have known this day 1.

I'm no where near having read the whole game, but I started with a Pine ISO and jumped into points there.

@Mastin-

My biggest issue with your claim is the point in time you came up with your Pine scumread (post 512).
You then "read", and confirm it with your vote 520.

this is followed by "Molla might be scum" (521). Based on progression, this read comes from:
[...long ass spoiler...] Which looks like a bunch of /Gin posting

But, by 584, you have sloidifdied that Pine-a-tronics is scum.

At least she's Town this game.

Yes I am! You, however, are your usual scumfuck self!

And this:

Pine is also scum. I prefer to vote Pine, in spite of SirCakez being scum, because lynching scum is lynching scum. The who or the why isn't as important as the act itself. Obviously I'll vote SirCakez if I can't lynch Pine. That goes without saying. But Pine is the scum I would prefer to lynch, because my scumread there is not only stronger, it is also on a firmer basis (I know Pine better), with better reasons, and also on someone who WILL slip away if you let him go.

Meanwhile, neither head of the hydra tries really hard to break you from your read, nor do they try to engage you that I can see. If your sure Pine is scum based on his 5 posts, yet the Gin side does nothign to affect your read?

Sounds kind of fake.

Triple ISO of Pine-Mastin-Molla

Code: Select all

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=69912&f=3&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select%5B%5D=28641&user_select%5B%5D=29138&user_select%5B%5D=16026&user_sort=Go

I feel that mastina's defense against his concerns (re: the timeline of game events, and the motivations behind Pine and mastina's actions) was legitimate.

I think Mastina's timeline jazz is just fucking strongly worded bullshit but if you actually read it then it makes no sense. For all intents and purposes we'll assume Mastina is scum in this post. Like Pine had a role that publicly outs his action. Both him and Mastina would know this. Her main argument here is that scum wouldn't know who was getting into the crew, however, this totally ignores that Heartless

DID

state who she wanted in the crew. Why does she gloss over that? Also, from what I understand, Pine joined late so its possible that scum used their action once it was confirmed there was no scum in the crew.

So explain to me why I should just accept that Mastina is town and their history let her scum read Pine. When A.) it makes sense to bus a player that will eventually go down. B.) She was strong arming said lynch with little to no reason. Why couldn't she have just said "oh this post and this post and this post gives me bad vibes." As long winded as she is she could have done so and I don't think she ever did wich I think is sketchy as fuck.

The only problem I have with your logic is when you say Pine "will eventually go down." I don't know if there's credence to that statement before the guilty result comes out.

As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.

Pine & Mastin interaction was zero. And most of the "Pine" was the other hydra head.
Mastina did not "sort" PineTornics, she already knew he was scum.
And he didn't fight it, no matter how often she repeated it over and over again, because no way did they want a 1v1 with each other.

yeah... no, you have now formally surrendered the right to bitch about "engagement" with me because the point of me asking was for you to state the reasoning IN YOUR OWN WORDS not to just glibly quote posts, which i can already see.

OK, I see that you actually do need me to spell everything out for you.

I was not in the game D1, so I was not in the "flow" of things. However based on my read of the game, I thought mastina was likely town based on her tone with regards to pushing Pine. That's what I wrote down in my catch-up post. After reading over 70 pages or whatever, I just wanted to get my initial thoughts down. I didn't want to heavily explore all the nuances of the possibilities that mastina bussed. Maybe I shouldn't have made a summation post at 4 AM because I wasn't completely clear-headed, and now I'm widely scumread based on that post. But fuck it, that's how I do catch-ups as a replacement. Read the game and post initial thoughts to work from.

Nero provided some context from D1 that got me thinking about how a conceived plan between Pine and mastina would actually go down. I found that Nero adequately explained why it would be likely for mastina to consider bussing if she knew the trajectory of the game (in this case, the crew composition). Nero and Pere both touched on another point about mastina not laying out concrete reasons from THIS game for scumreading Pine. Pere went in-depth how mastina seemed to only be interacting with one head and how that interaction seemed shallow. Again, I was not even in the game while Pine was, so I wasn't considering the hydra-head aspect that Pere pointed out.

All of that is what I mean by "reconsidering my one-dimensional read." It was originally based on tone, but based on further input I reconsidered a variety of factors. I don't think it's fair for you or anyone to say that my reads (not just on mastina) haven't evolved as a result of me trying to scumhunt.

[ɀefiend]

but the only way I could see Titus town is if Cakez is scum. I mean I did like zefiends stuff about Cakez defending Pine but Infinity was also kinda defending Pine. He was voting for him for awhile kinda goes back and forth.

Wtf? Then why are you voting me? I've been saying Titus is town and Cakez is scum for some time now.

[ɀefiend]

I do have another reason why I think Titus is scum and why I think efiend is town but I'm not ready to share with the class.

Smackdown is over. You don't have to wait for Raw to finish to talk about Smackdown, if this is what you're referring to.

And I would self-meta but Titus is already doing it for me. She's absolutely correct in why she's town-reading me based on that game.

[ɀefiend]

That's really the only issue I have with your play: that you're taking one read, not considering it could be wrong, and basing everything on that. I really want to help you get in this game, but your tunnel seems to be getting in the way.

Oh god the irony.

Except Titus is town and you're not.

[ɀefiend]

Smackdown is over. You don't have to wait for Raw to finish to talk about Smackdown, if this is what you're referring to.

its not.

WWE Mafia - Smackdown! (

Game Over

- Off Television)
1 ... 787980by Vince McMahon » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:55 pm

Titus has already been talking about it extensively. Maybe you ignored/skimmed over her points about that. If you have something relevant to share then do so if there's a chance it will help me not be mislynched.

[ɀefiend]

So...your 100% town and you rather die instead of Titus? If your answer to this is no then vote her and I'll unvote.

Why are you presenting me with an either-or fallacy? Holding me hostage until I vote Titus doesn't serve any fruitful purpose because I don't think she's scum, and I'm not going to self-vote.

I'd rather lynch scum, which is why I'm voting SirCakez.

[ɀefiend]

...What it does sound like, or atleast similar to, is how in

Smackdown

you were whining about me whining about you...when I wasn't. Ditto the thing about me, Cakez and Infinity keeping you from talking to ppl or whatever....

Wtf man...

[ɀefiend]

If Ttitus were town she'd be doing shit me thinks. I also got pretty sick of your "lurking". I know you were V/La part of it but how do I know if you are using it to lurk or not?

Does this look like lurking to you? I don't try to lurk as any alignment.

Also unrelated, non-sarcastic game question, do you know what the Super Bowl is? I happen to live in Houston, the city that hosted it this year. I worked all weekend and Monday, and got caught up with all my school shit that I missed Monday on Tuesday. Here I am posting today. Regardless of my alignment I wouldn't be able to be active. I think this is literally the first time I've ever used the V/LA tag -- most of the time I just take the prod and move on.

[ɀefiend]

What does the SB have to do with whether or not you had time to play?

Dude, I work as a bartender for a catering company part-time and also go to college 4 days a week. I worked Friday & Saturday, partied on Sunday, and skipped class to work on Monday. Yesterday I went to campus and caught up all the shit I missed Monday. Today has been the first day I even touched MS again since last Thursday. I read my PMs, left a message in all my games saying I'd catch-up tonight, and here I am now.

Can't believe I have to defend against someone trying to suggest I strategically V/LA'd to lurk.

[ɀefiend]

zefiend's 2615

People keep saying this, but I don't see how "cakez defended and townread pine" is a legit case.

Because there was no explanation behind any of them, just a strict desire to halt/fight the Pine wagon.

[ɀefiend]

Maybe you ignored/skimmed over her points about that. If you have something relevant to share then do so

I had felt like your wagon was just sitting there for days so I had felt like scum were comfortable with your lynch. I guess you could argue that the Cakez wagon is the counter wagon to you scum so idk...I sorta feel like, if Titus were town why is it so fucking hard to wagon her? I mean they got my big arrogant ass leading the way and they aren't sheeping me why? I doubt anyone agree's with this but yeah...

If you want to analyze my wagon you have to look at the speed. You also have to consider that mastina has expressed intent to hammer me if she ever "needs" to.

As for Titus, fmpov if she were scum she would have already found a reason to vote me. However she seems to be largely independent from most of the game with respect to her scumreads and angle of scumhunting. There is some overlap in our views which is why I'm partial.

Talk to me about mastina? Where has that train of thought headed?

[ɀefiend]

What should I be doing if neither of my preferred lynches are getting lynched?

I'll help you get a mastina wagon going, but not Titus.

[ɀefiend]

As for Titus, fmpov if she were scum she would have already found a reason to vote me.

I feel like Titus is going for the towncred angle in this game. She did it with Kling and someone else. Why does she have to vote you to be scum?

Nothing has really changed WRT Mastina. Like I still think its plenty reasonable to suggest she'd early strong arm distance from her buddy who had a role like that. I don't necessarily feel like "but I wouldn't know to push him" and "scum would have to be powerful for it to be a bus" doesn't really cure my paranoia...quite the opposite.

She doesn't but, as the two people I recall her voting (Infinity & Cakez) are also scumreads of mine, I tend to think she's coming from a town perspective since I know where I'm coming from.

[ɀefiend]

vote:Mastina

vote her or die

Not a fan of the ultimatum, but I'm happy with the vote.

VOTE: Mastina

Peregrine and Drunken Piper should be willing to go here btw.

[ɀefiend]

VOTE: SirCakez
Let's get this done

[ɀefiend]

I swear I'm always wrong about Cakez. Infinity, I kinda saw that one coming after his change-of-heart towards End of Day. Heartless, Nero, DP are all town so

I'm very uncomfortable with AJ now. He acted very nonchalant about switching between me and Cakez. I know I'm town, so I feel like he may just have not cared about which one us was lynched. His declaration of the wagons as TvS without explanation almost hint at a lining-up-lynches scenario. I also don't think both AJ and BBMolla can be town.

Molla's vote wasn't any better, but I just have this gut feeling that he's town. mastina's tunnel on him also favors a townread, since mastina is almost assuredly scum. She wasn't anywhere close to being active near End of Day, and yet here she is at the Start of Day, swooping in and laying on a volume of posts. I feel like she's the type of player to be content with the town just eating itself alive while she pushes a gutshot lynch that's low-key and doesn't significantly contribute to solving the overall game. Her scumreads on me and Cakez were just tossed out willy-nilly.

I think Titus' frustrations are genuine. Don't see this slot being scum.

Peregrine, I'm sure there's a case to be made there. But I really liked a lot of his analysis yesterDay. The problem is, by this point he's got roughly a 50/50 shot to be scum by PoE.

VOTE: TWIE though, literally who?

[ɀefiend]

If only you were TWIE, you could answer that question.

[ɀefiend]

The problem is, by this point he's got roughly a 50/50 shot to be scum by PoE.

I see you have scumreads on: mastina, one of AJ/molla, and presumably, TWIE.
How were these 50/50 odds for Peregrine calculated?

mastina, BBmolla, AJ, TWIE, Titus, Peregrine

3/6 = 50/50

Don't have a scumread on TWIE.

[ɀefiend]

The problem is, by this point he's got roughly a 50/50 shot to be scum by PoE.

I see you have scumreads on: mastina, one of AJ/molla, and presumably, TWIE.
How were these 50/50 odds for Peregrine calculated?

mastina, BBmolla, AJ, TWIE, Titus, Peregrine

3/6 = 50/50

Don't have a scumread on TWIE.

So three of

mastina
BBmolla
AJ
TWIE
Titus
Peregrine

are scum?

Yes. I'm taking a (small) leap of faith and assuming Nero is Town. Heartless and DP are pretty confirmed by actions.

[ɀefiend]

lol

More votes on this would be great.

[ɀefiend]

mastina, BBmolla, AJ, TWIE, Titus, Peregrine

3/6 = 50/50

Don't have a scumread on TWIE.

How did Titus make it into this group? You've been pretty adamant about townreading her up to now.

After being wrong about two of our shared reads, I've reconsidered. I tend to townread people who share thought process and reads with me. We were both wrong about SirCakez and Infinity. Titus is pretty much back to square 1 for me, except the frustration-thing I still see as sorta Towny.

It's unlike Titus to be

this

passive though; it's bordering on coasting. I get what Nero is saying about Titus.. possibly using Nero's "distractions" as a crutch to avoid actually contributing.

[ɀefiend]

Zefiend got quiet.

Hi

[ɀefiend]

Does anyone with flavor knowledge know anything about the anonymous message?

I think those types of things are always WIFOM involved. It could be scum framing Pere. Or even if Pere is scum, why choose to inno yourself instead of guilty a non-clear?

Though I will say that every other message I've seen like that has been "mod-confirmed", so this one is rather suspicious. I wanna hear from Pere before I jump to any conclusions.

[ɀefiend]

Man, nobody wanted to help me pressure TWIE. Why not? I don't like having a hole in my reads. That slot is basically a coin flip.

[ɀefiend]

The Thinker ROLE PM

Welcome! You are

Cassian Andor

,

Rogue Two ,

2 Shot Vigilante

.

You are aligned with the

Rebel Alliance

.

Nachoammma8 Role PM

Welcome! You are

Raddus

, Admiral

Vanilla Townie

.

You are aligned with the

Rebel Alliance

.

Note the "Blue Four" part:

Desperado Role PM

Welcome! You are

Barion Raner

, Blue Four

Vanilla Townie

.

You are aligned with the

Rebel Alliance

.

Klingoncelt Role PM

Welcome! You are

Davits Draven

, Rebel General

Vanilla Townie

.

You are aligned with the

Rebel Alliance

.

SirCakez Role PM

Welcome! You are

R2-D2

, a Droid

Vanilla Townie

.

You are aligned with the

Rebel Alliance

.

Infinity 324 Role PM

Welcome! You are

C-3P0

, a Droid

Vanilla Townie

.

You are aligned with the

Rebel Alliance

.

Anonymous Message

PeregrineV is

Antoc Merrick

,

Blue One

Vanilla Townie

. He is aligned with the

Rebel Alliance

.

Which one of these is not like the others? The black text instead of white -- I could understand. But the coloring of "Blue One" blue seems like a mistake, trying to make the role seem more legit. However, "Blue Four" is not colored in actual PMs. You said that it was your role PM,

verbatim

. If you actually looked at your role PM (or just looked at the dead PMs...) you wouldn't format it like that unless you were faking it.

VOTE: Peregrine

[ɀefiend]

We are lynching Mastina tomorrow. No questions asked.

[ɀefiend]

Flavor name is Saw Gerrara, rebel extremist. Haven't used 1-shot ability.

Have two full busy days ahead of me so I won't be quite active. Basically, I still want mastina dead, and MOI is full of shit. Either Titus was pocketing me the entire time and MOI just thinks it's easier to mislynch me (unlikely but possible) OR he's tunneling me like Infinity was and there's a chance we can talk it out (seems that way given his other interactions/hunting).

[ɀefiend]

No need to convince me of anything, really. The dispersion of powers and claims makes me fairly confident about my guess that one of AJ/BB is scum. And with mastina's constant pushing on BB, it's pretty obvious who I think it is. AJ and MOI have actively engaged in vote-parking on me because I was a fairly attackable mislynch when heartless and Infinity were pressuring me hard. It's probably no coincidence that mastina constantly calls me (and other townies) scum, but avoids wagons at all costs.

mastina + MOI + AJ is where I'm at right now.

VOTE: MOI

[ɀefiend]

To clarify, I know that MOI wasn't in the game when I was being heavily pressured. But MOI's recent posts about "just

look

at zefiend's latest posts, they are so scum," are in the same vein of weak attempts at echoing things others have been (falsely) saying earlier in the game.

[ɀefiend]

Well you've been roughly adamant that it was a double town wagon between cakez and Zefiend, which i'm fairly certain isn't true.

Says the guy who had equal nonchalance in wagoning both of us...

[ɀefiend]

but lets talk more about 1v1s. You claimed b/c you don't think that your and Mollas role can't exist together. Why did you never go after him?

Part of my claim was to ask the rogue crew if knowing their power, Molla made sense with his claim and mine both in the game. Why I didn't pursue that is mostly because most of the rogue crew figured it was possible for Molla's role to exist in conjunction to mine and even DP's.

Seems like a really dumb reason to claim. And in my opinion, it is most certainly not possible for yours and BBmolla's claimed roles to both be town, unless scum has some gigantic ability.

As for Zefiend, his reads are so incredibly generic and for someone who is a technical veteran, he's felt maybe more lost than me. That's really not supposed to be possible, I am one of, if not THE, worst large player on site considering experience.

So when I see this:

No need to convince me of anything, really. The dispersion of powers and claims makes me fairly confident about my guess that one of AJ/BB is scum. And with mastina's constant pushing on BB, it's pretty obvious who I think it is. AJ and MOI have actively engaged in vote-parking on me because I was a fairly attackable mislynch when heartless and Infinity were pressuring me hard. It's probably no coincidence that mastina constantly calls me (and other townies) scum, but avoids wagons at all costs.

mastina + MOI + AJ is where I'm at right now.

VOTE: MOI

Bullshit. This is appeasement, no one should ever have the exact same reads and even town who gets wagoned is going to understand they've got to do a better analysis being town than "yeah they voted me". "And other townies" is used in his post, but in fact he doesn't do anything different from you for town reads: POE. PoE is a FUCKING COP OUT. Say it with me. That is the scum 101 way to have another lynch after the winds change.

Actually, things get a lot easier to PoE in mylo/lylo. Saying I didn't give explanation for PoE is a lie, I explained it to Heartless. "Other townies" referred to cakez and Nero. Nero isn't a town-read of Nero, he's just himself. So I'm not really copping out by piggybacking on Nero's points and I'm certainly not just mirroring him. We arrived at our Titus-slot read in entirely different ways.

Oh and speaking of winds changing....

The feeling when {Infinity, SirCakez, mastina} are unironically the scumteam. Wow.

Wow indeed. Unperturbed by his complete whiffs, he develops two new reads to replace the ones that died.

Oh and...?

Those were two Days ago. And two of those people are dead. It's not rocket science that my reads would change to include two new people.

Now this post gives me pause.

Maybe Cakez/Infinity/BBMolla?

Oh no! BBMolla was magically dropped from the scum reads in his nonsense 3 man scum assumptions. Which btw is funny because how the fuck does he keep assuming three?

Again with old stuff. "Assuming" these 3 man teams at that point of the game was given my current interpretation of the game-state. Infinity eventually talked himself down about scumreading me and you have slowly been pushing out BBMolla for the last scum contender.

Then this:

Well you've been roughly adamant that it was a double town wagon between cakez and Zefiend, which i'm fairly certain isn't true.

Says the guy who had equal nonchalance in wagoning both of us...

Just ignores that I scumread Cakez most of day 1 and was really unimpressed with both aero and zefiend's play on that slot. Zefiend and Aero both only ever had super uncontroversial reads and never pushed the boundaries for anything more than that. And there was zero unique things about those reads, just "Hey I think they're town for reasons town has openly stated they're town for".


There's actually a solid lack of townreading ANYONE in Zefiend's iso.

Really?

Townreading Titus? Totally uncontroversial.
Scumreading Infinity? Totally uncontroversial.
Reconsidering my mastina read? Totally uncontroversial.

On the contrary, many of my reads and actions

have

been controversial, which is why I'm constantly at threat of being mislynched by scum.

Your flimsy MOI read is also quite telling.

[ɀefiend]

If I think you, Nero, and Molla are Town, it makes it easy to tag MOI as scum. He kinda blew the whole pocketing thing Titus probably had going with me, and Nero has been towning it up too.

About 60/40 on the AJ/BB tossup. Not convinced that a vanillaizer is enough to warrant two blocking roles. I just played in a game where Firebringer backed up that had an unlimited vanillaizer and 0 town blocking power.

[ɀefiend]

In Memory

[ɀefiend]

Sure it does. You just said it acts like a roleblocker so it would make sense for each side to have one roleblocker-esque ability instead of Town having two.

[ɀefiend]

It's a check+effect. Hardly investigative considering Peregrine's thing.

[ɀefiend]

Mastina is scum. Whether with BBmolla, TWIE, or by herself.

Most likely she's the JoAT role she's describing. It makes no sense for a scum death to trigger a townie receiving that sort of information, especially so late in the game.

This is obviously a gambit to get me lynched, but there are a couple things that don't add up. There's absolutely no way I would kill Nero, the only person townreading me. There's absolutely no way I

wouldn't

Strongman kill heartless if I had such a power mastina described. There's also the fact that MoI was solidly trying to mislynch me yesterDay. Finally, mastina's flip on BBmolla doesn't make any sense.

Even if

mastina's info were true, that wouldn't preclude BBmolla from having fake-claimed, which is what mastina has been pushing this whole game.

VOTE: mastina

[ɀefiend]

Used it on Nero because it also BOOSTS the ability, and I wasn't about to give that to mastina.

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Intent

Scum.

This is probably GG. One lurker all game and one scumfuck who conveniently changed their reads at every time it was suitable. Mastina is saying it's impossible for me to be Town, but if you look at what she's saying, it's actually nigh impossible for her to be Town.

She's claiming to have info exclusive to the scumteam. She's been on the outskirts of every mislynch except the one that's going to end the game. She's flipped her BBmolla read for no reason except to garner his vote. She's claiming I would shoot the only person townreading me.

I know I didn't play the best this game, but I'm spreading the blame in advance.

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I wouldn't have shot infinity btw

That's what I said in the scum PT!

I really wish Titus would have made it through, I have no idea why MoI hard bussed me, but I'm glad mastina pulled it out in the end. I do kinda feel bad for Town having to die a very slow painful death.

Thanks for hosting Firebringer.

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Yeah go ahead.

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Rereading the topic, this is probably the best part for me. Definitely the most ironic:

Don't set your hopes too high--I'm not only a replacement on this scumteam,

but also not the driving force behind the team. I'm along for the ride, but this is clearly YOUR game here. I'm here to help, I'm here to assist, I'm here to trounce the town, but I'm not here to show my strongest scumgame.

This team's just too strong for me to show it, ironically enough. By you being all awesome, I can't show off my full awesomeness because

I can't be in the spotlight

when among equals. Which you are. So, among equals I'm not at my STRONGEST scum game. I'm more like...medium-strong.

Strong enough to survive.