Star Wars Rogue One [GAME OVER]

[Nero Cain]

But after they flip scum. Not before.

I DON'T SUSPECT YOU NOW AND I NEVER HAVE YOU FUCKING MORON.

Your holier than thou attitude is just pissing me the fuck off.

[Nero Cain]

Like I'm just saying that if/when Titus and/or Mastin flip scum I might suspect Infinity as being a scum buddy. Like I don't know if he's just kinda upset that I'm not bowing at his knees and telling him how good he is or what but IMM its the correct play to think that Infinity could be a scum buddy with Titus and its not a hard concept to grasp so I dunno why he's struggling with it.

[Nero Cain]

In other news, lets flip scum Titus.

[Nero Cain]

I'm really sorry that you got annoyed by this, I wasn't try to insult you personally. I was trying to lay the groundwork so we can cooperate later on. I guess I misunderstood your position in 2167 and took it to mean you were considering lynching me now simply because I townread your scumreads, which is what I took issue with. Sorry about that.

fair enough. I'm sorry too. I can be...zealous in my efforts. So lets rap about your Titus and Mastin town reads.

[Nero Cain]

PV, talk to me about your Titus read.

[Nero Cain]

PV, talk to me about your Titus read.

Sure. I think she's town at this point.

why?

[Nero Cain]

or nm

[Nero Cain]

thoughts on DP claiming the exact nature of the guilty?

[Nero Cain]

Yeah I'm not really buying into the whole "no way would I bus Pine since we are besties from way back." I think you'd bus him/he'd want to be bussed if it gave scum a tactical advantage. As soon as he used his ability he was very likely to get lynched and scum would have known this day 1.

[Nero Cain]

Like Pine had a role that publicly outs his action.

Yes. Which...he would only need to use if there were no scum on the rogue crew.
If there was a scum on the rogue crew, suddenly, Pine doesn't need to use his power at all.
And then, all of a sudden, Pine never gets the suspicion on them.

That. simple.

Heartless

DID

state who she wanted in the crew.

Heartless wasn't the only candidate for Rogue Leader. Infinity and I believe Desperado were also D1 candidates. Notably, I was voting for Infinity as Rogue Leader--NOT Heartless.

infinity if you were rogue leader would you put pine on the rogue team?

Probably not.

I'd probably do me mastin desp or me desp and a scummish/null player

.

^This, and this alone, would be incentive enough to NOT assume Pine would use the ability.

Infinity, at the time of 780, was the vote leader for rogue leader. I was voting him. And he was interested in placing me in the rogue crew.
By that point, I had already made it clear I had a hard-on for a Pine lynch.

So again.
Fuck you.

My point about chronology stands.

Rhetoric. The fact that Infinity was up for RL at one point and wanted others has shit all to do with anything.

nfinity, Nacho, Desperado, and Aeronaut are my choices.

this is the only post that's even relevant here b/c you know, that was the RL.

[Nero Cain]

in our first game together in over two years

So you haven't played with Pine in over two years and you just remember everything about his play?

[Nero Cain]

Like zefiend has been... slightly more high key about his alignment with his flailing.

I'd argue that flailing is 10x more likely to come from town than scum.

Like ok, I can understand the argument that he's fence sitting scum but its just meh since I think that's fairly null. I do kinda like Heartless' thing about him being so quick to rethink his Mastin read but idk...I'm on the fence. Can you guys nom me for a scummy? I think I'm the first scum player with a green pm and that's maybe Kodak moment worthy...

[Nero Cain]

If efiend gets lynched and flips town then you guys are going to be sheeping me on Titus and if I'm dead you guys are still going to be lynching Titus.

[Nero Cain]

Heartless if you think zefiend is scum shouldn't both of your votes be there?

[Nero Cain]

What a skrub mod.

[Nero Cain]

Are you full? Who'd you keep last night?

[Nero Cain]

she is playing just like Street Fighter huh?

[Nero Cain]

No she's playing differently from that, but she's still scum

I see parallels. Like how she lurked until there was major heat on her/PV and how she tunneled one player exclusivly early game (Jackrito/Infinity) but I guess it doesn't really matter. We both know she's scum. Let us be united in our efforts against the galactic republic.

[Nero Cain]

This. So much this.

VOTE: SireCakez

you spelled Titus wrong.

[Nero Cain]

Cakez is town.

Mastina I've been hard pushing and I can't fathom that a town you that's active and engaged wouldn't know this.

[Nero Cain]

Molla I'm kinda fence sitting on. I'm weighing the whole AJ is a keeper and can that exist with Bollas role if the vanilla thing is a scum gambit. Though its a marathon not a sprint so we'll see how flips go.

[Nero Cain]

refuse to engage me but continuously take potshots

I don't see how this is any different than you.

Can you talk to me about your scumreads because you seem to go back and forth between scum and town all the time.

[Nero Cain]

Now, I have asked you three times for a coherent story about this Mastina/Pine/BBMolla nonsense you are spouting. Each time you deflect.

yeah this whole *not listening* thing only wants me to see you dead.

[Nero Cain]

You don't see how my behavior is different than a 5 game long vendetta that you must emulate as scum? Ok, Sherlock.

Its not like all of our last 5 games I've been town so I'm obviously fake scumhunting you. You and AJ using games where I was scum to "prove" that I always scum read you ia pretty fucking stupid but I expect that shit from you.

[Nero Cain]

Not counting the ongoing.....

WWE Smackdown-was town, you were scum. I didn't have a strong scum read on you.
Gitsou-was town that thought I was a 3p SK. You were town, I scum read you and misvigged you on night 1.
Street Fighter-was town, you were scum. Scum read you.
Borderlands-I didn't remember my read on you in this game so I took a look. I wasn't hard scum reading you, there was something in my ISO about you and Varsoon being scum or town together or faking...so masons?
Denmark-was scum so my scum read on you was obviously fake.

Where is this fucking vendetta? There is none and this clearly shows that. However, I do understand whats going on...whether you'll admit it or not. I think you, and alot of scum in general, will just sorta wave off scum reads. When I was scum reading you in Street Fighters I am I am 99% sure that you claimed I was trying to vendetta lynch you or some shit like that. So I think you've kinda decided that you'll say this regardless of alignment even when you know it isn't true.

[Nero Cain]

and look at this game, I was

NOT

scumreading you. I was even fucking defending you.

[Nero Cain]

Like I realize that I am fairly likely to scum read you so I think you've kinda decided that you are going do the same things that I find scummy from you (writing my scum read off/ignoring me, pretending like I'm not giving reasoning etc.) all the time and build a "I react to Nero the same way all the time!" So at the risk of you continuing to pretend like I have not given any reasoning I'll use more words and REquote my posts (wich proves that I you know, I had reasoning)

this Klingon lynched seeming preplanned without me worries me.

like this is too dumb to come from town Titus.

This still looks like trying to gain cheap town cred/lynch off of the possible Kling wagon. Like Titus is experienced enough to understand that Kling would have been ran up for that hammer. I feel like her saying that she is worried about it is fake as shit.

ANYONE

would have understood that the Kling wagon would be a thing after her hammer so her implying the scum planned this seems super manipulative.

Her reaction to me voting her today was "ZOMG NERO IS CHAINSAW DEFENDING INFINITY!" and I thought it was pretty weak. I was scum reading her since the end of day 1. Why did it take her a whole fucking day if she thinks my scumread on her was a chainsaw defense? Yes, she was V/la part of d2 but this delayed OMGUS thing was p fucking scummy.

The only slight misgiving that I have is that scum voted her but I really don't think her delayed OMGUS and her incredulity at the Kling wagon doesn't seem town like at all.

still proving Titus wrong. And I know she saw them b/c she's replying to them in 1834

And speaking of the reply

So being right when everyone else was wrong is a reason to scumread me?

Like this was obviously not my point so why would townTitus misrep my position on her?

but not why there is an absolute refusal to listen to alternatives.

there wasn't?

And this is really a misrep of events. I mean obviously Kling wasn't quick lynched or anything so...

I lack the data and interactions to know if there was scum as opposed to bullheaded pride.

I felt like this is wank. Like If Titus actually felt like Kling was pushed by scum (as she implied earlier) then I don't feel like this is consistant with that thought. I mean she did later on claim that I was the one that was pushing the Kling wagon by discrediting her which IDK WTF that means.

oh look, more quotes of my giving reasons.

I think Titus' avoiding me until today is pretty scummy.

Why does someone that thinks I'm scum ever say

Dude, name a game where you haven't pushed me day 1 for being me?

or

So being right when everyone else was wrong is a reason to scumread me? Really Nero? You can sit down and shut up.

I still don't think that any of this makes sense from town that thinks I'm scum. She is scum that knows I am town.

If you fuckers are going to lynch Molla, that will make this game unplayable for me in most regards

I think this

AtE

would make sense as a Molla scumbuddy. Obviously scum wouldn't know there was a guilty so her "he wouldn't claim before the guilty" makes like zero sense. Will she fall back onto her "I'm known for moonlogic, so its not scummy that I'm saying something that doesn't make sense!"?

It's not like anyone needs it anyway, so I am outright protesting the stupidity of this group. If you insist on me voting for Rogue Leader, I will vote for myself. But I refuse to reward stupidity.

Also not a huge fan of this.

[Nero Cain]

AJ why did you never give us these reasons that you are scumreading Titus for but are totally different from mine?

[Nero Cain]

I think this is how I feel about this game right now.

all my rebels

Drunken Piper
TheWayItEnds
SirCakez
Heartless
ɀefiend
PeregrineV
Infinity 324

should be donations to sarlacc pit.

BBmolla
mastina
Titus
Aj the Epic
BBmolla


Also Colonel Reb isn't racist.

[Nero Cain]

Gitsou-was town that thought I was a 3p SK. You were town, I scum read you and misvigged you on night 1.

just to clarify, I was hunting mafia so yea, I misread you but there's still no vendetta here.

[Nero Cain]

vote:Molla

[Nero Cain]

I do not think its outside the realms of possibility that Molla fakeclaims that his buddy targets him

Also you are doing shit all.

[Nero Cain]

can we talk about your worries about me and figure this shit out so we don't need to waste a lynch

this is a scum win so I think I'll just vote anyone that's not voting Titus. I prophesize that at some point a stupid town or scum is going to say something along the lines of "Nero is doing nothing but sheeping, he must be scum!" and get mislynched for doing nothing but sheeping. But I don't think I'll really care at that point.

[Nero Cain]

I don't see anything in nero's case that can't be explained by titus just not thinking clearly for one reason or another. Tunneling makes townies do very weird things, and I think that's what's happening to titus.

So me tunneling Titus makes her try to get cheap town cred from the Kling wagon?

[Nero Cain]

You aren't doing ANYTHING besides be defensive and complain about the people pushing you. No scumhunting.

this but then Infinity will just defend this by saying that her being tunneled is making her act this way.

[Nero Cain]

Oh, I didn't even notice at first but going from this to "oh yeah you might be right" without citing any specifics is very scummy

he did or atleast I did give reasons why I believed why I do and he changed his tune but then you and Titus are the little "deny it ever happened party"

[Nero Cain]

Whereas you were scumreading for OMGUS at the beginning of today

I was never scum reading her for OMGUS....I mean her

DELAYED

OMGUS doesn't give me town vibes or anything but that was never part of my original case.

[Nero Cain]

Ok, well thank you for detailing in why in the past 5 games (excluding ongoing) that you scumread my slot. I just see the end result every time and go Nero is scumreading me again, as always. I am not going to deny I was scum sometimes but still I just felt like you were doing that.

I get it, its a sympathy thing regardless of alignment. Its ok but you are still scum this game.

[Nero Cain]

Another issue I have with the molla!scum narrative is why pine would risk dying before using all his shots given the day1 wagon thing and him joining the rogue crew.

HE HAD A ROLE THAT PUBLICLY OUTS HIM USING AN ANTI-TOWN ACTION. AS SOON AS HE USED IT THERE' BE HEAT ON HIM.

I mean, ok, yeah, there's a universe where Molla is scum with Pine and fakes being targeted for town cred and another universe where Molla is town and is turned into a vanilla. I think both are plausible. I don't really understand your thing that scum would intentionally wait a night for Pine to use his second vanila shot and risk being blind on n1.

[Nero Cain]

I don't see anything in nero's case that can't be explained by titus just not thinking clearly for one reason or another. Tunneling makes townies do very weird things, and I think that's what's happening to titus.

So me tunneling Titus makes her try to get cheap town cred from the Kling wagon?

and makes her wait a whole day phase for her to claim I'm chainsaw voting her.

[Nero Cain]

vote: zefiend

I'm voting this until he votes Titus

[Nero Cain]

ok, so she's tunneling you and thinks you are scum. So when I ask her who was scum pushing the Kling wagon why does she say "I lack the data and interactions to know if there was scum as opposed to bullheaded pride."

instead of talking about how scummy you are and how you were the scum that was pushing the wagon?

[Nero Cain]

What do you think of my (and I guess Cakez confirmed it) point that how in Street Fighter she tunneled Jackrito almost exclusively much like she did here?

[Nero Cain]

ok, so she's tunneling you and thinks you are scum. So when I ask her who was scum pushing the Kling wagon why does she say "I lack the data and interactions to know if there was scum as opposed to bullheaded pride."

instead of talking about how scummy you are and how you were the scum that was pushing the wagon?

like it seems like she is specifically leaving the door open so that she can hop on anyone from the Kling wagon and cite the "

THEY

were the scum that was pushing Kling"

[Nero Cain]

this is a scum win so I think I'll just vote anyone that's not voting Titus.

Please don't be like this

Why does this matter to you? I am voting your scum read. You should be overjoyed.

[Nero Cain]

I'd expect him to use his vanillize n1 in order to avoid dying with unused shots.

I see no reason to believe he didn't unless you think he can't use both actions in the same night.

[Nero Cain]

I'd expect him to use his vanillize n1 in order to avoid dying with unused shots.

I see no reason to believe he didn't unless you think he can't use both actions in the same night.

but lets just say he couldn't. If the n1 crew was all town do you think scum would go "oh hey lets use not use Pine's action that puts him in the crew, so we can see what they are doing tonight."

and we could just you know, ask. He may or ma not tell us but meh.....

can a player use more than 1 action in a night?

~Yes

[Nero Cain]

I don't get exactly what you're saying here, but the first part is exactly my point. Since there'd be heat on pine

and if you agree that there'd be heat on Pine once he used his action why is my belief that Mastina would bus him so lol silly?

[Nero Cain]

I wasn't in that game

ok and? Why does that matter?

[Nero Cain]

I think she assumed it was clear she thought I was scum

I don't think you shouldn't assume things. Let the words speak for themselves not what you think they mean/want them to mean.

[Nero Cain]

I wasn't in that game

ok and? Why does that matter?

I'm not gonna bother to read it anytime soon, sorry

ok? I'm not asking you to read. I'm saying that we (Cakez and I) are presenting evidence from another game that makes me (and I guess him) think Titus is scum. So I'm not understanding why you not being in that game/not wanting to read has

ANYTHING

to do with anything.

[Nero Cain]

I can't trust you on it if I don't see it for myself

You don't think I'm scum so why do you think I'd lie about that as town. Cakez was in that game, as was Anti and PV and TWIE. So explain to me what I would get out of lying? And SC has already kinda confirmed it, or atleast didn't deny it. So are me and Cakez scum together? If this wasn't true why did you think Titus didn't start yelling at me that I was lying?

[Nero Cain]

Unless you think pine actually vanillized scum!molla, molla has to be town if pine used the shot

and why exactly can't Pine have used his shot elsewhere and Molla is just lying?

[Nero Cain]

can a player use more than 1 action in a night?

~Yes

so knowing that he could use both of his actions n1...does that change anything for you Infinity?

[Nero Cain]

So we know that Pine used his ability to join the crew, and he may or may not have used his vanilla shot.

[Nero Cain]

Why exactly are you voting zefiend?

[Nero Cain]

I have been right all game

Calling town town is p easy regardless of alignment. It is SUPER eazy if you are scum and know that everyone but you and your team are towm I will only be impressed with your "being right" when you flip scum.

[Nero Cain]

and she's OMGUSing everyone scumreading her

she does that regardless of alignment. The delayed OMGUS venge vote on me is more telling of her alignment.

[Nero Cain]

Is it just the inconsistency?

yes

[Nero Cain]

What do you think of her "oh hey guys I've been right all game!" (with the implied we should listen to her) but has yet to flip scum?

[Nero Cain]

vote:Sircakez for RL

[Nero Cain]

Ok titus, explain why you voted nero for voting you on d3 but not earlier.

better late than never...

[Nero Cain]

and she's OMGUSing everyone scumreading her

she does that regardless of alignment. The delayed OMGUS venge vote on me is more telling of her alignment.

I don't remember her doing this as town but I haven't played with town!her in a while

oh boi do I have a game to show you...once its over.

[Nero Cain]

TWIE is likely scum actually. This is the second time he's questioned a townread on himself, he may be going for the easy towncred

The not having reads thing is very annoying but NAI I think

Yeah, I think he just has one of those "lets be useless" playstyles. He

could

be scum but its just a shot in the dark I think.

[Nero Cain]

you shits are sheeping me when zefiend flips town.

[Nero Cain]

unvote

[Nero Cain]

I'm just going to sit back and let you and Heartless mislynch the whole town

[Nero Cain]

Says the guy the thinks I'm town but wouldn't put in in the RK b/c you don't agree with my reads. That's no different than me not agreeing with your reads and realizing its futile to get scum lynched until you and Heartless mislynch a ton of folks.

[Nero Cain]

Its gut mostly. He was scum in in WWE Smackdown and I ended up skimming one of his scum games and he just seemed so confident. Here he's waffly and paranoid. I also felt like his "I spent hours reading this game!" felt p genuine. Maybe its

ATE

and its working on me.

[Nero Cain]

and I'm just not a big fan of the cases(s) on him. So he's fence sitting. I do it all the fucking time. Other players do it all the fucking time. So his town read on Mastina was shot to hell. Maybe I'm just...getting pocketed...idk.

[Nero Cain]

One of the points I brought up against Mastina is...basically Mastina was arguing that the scum had no clue who was going to be in the crew. I countered her point that Heartless made it very fucking clear who they wanted in the crew. Yes, I get it it that town can miss things but I think its suspicious that she did. Maybe he thought it was a good point and changed his read...idk man.

[Nero Cain]

vote:Sircakez for RL

nero whats the point of this

he's town and I'm vengeful.

[Nero Cain]

I mean obviously I'm not 100% accurate and I realize that but I mean, I dunno. I think a Mastin/Titus/???? team makes so much sense.

[Nero Cain]

that's just how I feel.

[Nero Cain]

if you want heartless to not have it you could vote for someone who has a shot at getting it.

Who has a shot at getting it that's not DP?

[Nero Cain]

Its gut mostly. He was scum in in WWE Smackdown and I ended up skimming one of his scum games and he just seemed so confident. Here he's waffly and paranoid. I also felt like his "I spent hours reading this game!" felt p genuine. Maybe its ATE and its working on me.

thoughts on this?

[Nero Cain]

why dong you want DP?

I don't want anyone that wasted a vig shot on Kling.

[Nero Cain]

I also felt like his "I spent hours reading this game!" felt p genuine. Maybe its ATE and its working on me.

I meant mostlt this part. I realize that its not impossible that we have two different interpretations but IDK he felt genuine to me, did he not to you?

[Nero Cain]

What did the Rogue Crew or whatever do night1?

What did they do night2?

N1 heartless gave a vig shot to someone who shot kling N2

N2 heartless gave someone an ability to be used N3

would like to put forward again,
I should be rogue leader, reasons are plain.

I think you should actually starting doing shit. Having control over the hood and handing out night actions is prob fun and yeah there are scum that get caught by them but I think the day game is mostly important.

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: zefiend

[Nero Cain]

kling was shot, kling was town. It was a waste. Why exactly is that a difficult concept?

[Nero Cain]

Wait

Isn't jk just a roleblock + doc?

yea

[Nero Cain]

kling was shot, kling was town. It was a waste. Why exactly is that a difficult concept?

why do you think I had the vig?
because I didnt...

.(DP take s swig)

ok then. I guess it was desp.

[Nero Cain]

if AJ jailed cakez, I could not have gotten the RESULT I did.

spell this out, if your result was "he went no where" or "he targeted no one" how does a roleblock make that impossible?

[Nero Cain]

this isn't a normal game....

[Nero Cain]

Ok titus, explain why you voted nero for voting you on d3 but not earlier.

[Nero Cain]

what excuse is now current?
your lack of vote for me is leaving me burnt.

you're pushing to hard to be leader and I don't want you. :/

[Nero Cain]

so Heartless is a better leader why?

if I thought that I'd be voting her.

My reads list isn't in any particular order.

What are your Mastin and Titus reads looking like?

[Nero Cain]

I think it goes back a little to d1. I had kinda mentioned that you were not a town read from me and in your next post you had a little push back on me and I wasn't super fond of that.

I had thought the vig shot was a collective decision (or it should have been)

[Nero Cain]

ok tell me who I should vote for RL if I don't want either you or them as RL?

[Nero Cain]

vote:Titus

This is still scum so going to let my vote sit here. I think zefriend is pretty town but if that gets lynched and flips town then ok.

[Nero Cain]

Titus had a really interesting vote change to me there... Like y'all have known my claim for a couple of days, what the hell was that delayed reaction?

So vote her with me?

[Nero Cain]

I like the slot when it belonged to Aero.

Zef filling in makes it look shitty, and nothing like a hero

.

please be more specific.

[Nero Cain]

ok....

vote:DP

now why am I voting him?

[Nero Cain]

your welcome?

[Nero Cain]

vote:Titus

[Nero Cain]

I was ISOing Infinity......

One of my favorite scum tactics, making it seem like the arguments against you are ridiculous.

If you think this often comes from scum why were you hard ton reading Titus while she was doing this to me?

[Nero Cain]

the whole "Nero just is vendetta "scum" reading me. He has no reasons"

[Nero Cain]

infinity, can you do me a solid and find the post where you said wh you wanted in the crew.

[Nero Cain]

I knida feel like 2 town JOATs is a possible thing. So AJ might be the scum in that group but then like 2 JOATs/full JK doesn't seem impossible either. Even if there's one scum between those 3 there's still 2-3 more. Lets lynch Titus.

[Nero Cain]

but then AJ being shit with his actions does kinda bother me.....

[Nero Cain]

vote:Drunken Piper for RL

[Nero Cain]

heresy! BURN THE HEATHEN!

[Nero Cain]

DP what was the nature of your guilty on Pine?

[Nero Cain]

this is why the RNG never makes me a vig.

[Nero Cain]

but the only way I could see Titus town is if Cakez is scum. I mean I did like zefiends stuff about Cakez defending Pine but Infinity was also kinda defending Pine. He was voting for him for awhile kinda goes back and forth.

[Nero Cain]

Like I still believe her (Titus) saying that she was worried that Kling was being pushed and the subsequent "I'm not sure who is scum!" was actually super manipulative. Like Titus is experienced enough to understand that Klings hammer the day before was going to putting her on the chopping block and he acting like that wasn't the case was super dumb. As much shit as I give her I do not think she's an idiot so why is she playing so badly?

[Nero Cain]

and the whole "I've been right all game, I'm calling all the town town" like really? Do you know how easy it would be to call town town if she's scum?

[Nero Cain]

I mean anyone can defend scum.

I agree. How do you think scum react to their buddies getting wagoned?

[Nero Cain]

Do you think Cakez is scum Infinity?

[Nero Cain]

but I find it hard to imagine her being intentionally obtuse there as scum.

Why?

So if Cakez were to flip town you'd think Titus is scum?

[Nero Cain]

Like Titus' actions recently are fine,

can you go more in depth on this?

[Nero Cain]

I do have another reason why I think Titus is scum and why I think efiend is town but I'm not ready to share with the class.

[Nero Cain]

I think what happened is that she just felt suspicious when everyone including me voted kling right at the start of d2.

sure ok, that's somewhat possible I guess but I think its equally as possible (possibly even more) that she's scum that was trying to get cheap cred and then power lynch off the Kling wagon. But at the same time

EVERYONE

knew Kling was going to be a thing so why would she be suspicious when the defacto thinking would have been "Kling quickhammered so she must be scum." So to me it looks like she went against the grain b/c she knew Kling wasn't scum.

I mean I realize that I'm not going to get to lynch Titus until the playerbase gets whittled down but I don't feel like she's town.

[Nero Cain]

Her posting isn't advancing any objective.

Shouldn't that be cause for concern by itself? Like maybe I'm misrepping your point here but if she's just sitting there and doing squat all wouldn't that be perfectly reasonable scum behavior?

[Nero Cain]

I've been town reading him lately b/c he was voting Titus with me. Remember d1 when Cakez was getting wagoned and my reasoning was that his vote on Titus was shit? Well Titus came is and basically calls him bad town. So idk. Maybe Infinity is right here and its one of Cakez/Titus.


Why are you pushing on me?

[Nero Cain]

So if zefiend flips town

molla, cakez, titus
cakez, twie, molla
mastin, twie, titus
^
that is what you'll think?

[Nero Cain]

vote:TWIE

lets lynch scum

[Nero Cain]

HOW HEARTLESS WASN'T EVEN CLOSE TO BEING THE ROGUE LEADER AT THE TIME.
At the time, Infinity was the Rogue Leader vote.
And Infinity had me as a pick.
The chronology doesn't fit. So no. Not rhetoric. That'd be YOU, bringing up an irrelevant point.

ok. lets look at your original statement.

Pine would only make sense as a bus if scum are powerful!

, she yells. Which ignores the whole point that Pine would get a major assload of heat as soon as he joined the RK without getting invited. B/c why the fuck would

TOWN

do that? Woman please.

Okay.
I 'bussed' Pine D1.
Pine entered the crew N1.

How does that work on your timeline?

It doesn't.
What's to stop Pine from having been a part of the crew?
What's to stop scum other than Pine from having been a part of the crew?

With the benefit of hindsight, that is, knowing who the crew picked was, you can safely assume the picked crew T1 was all town, yes.
But that's only with the benefit of hindsight, knowing Pine forcefully joined the crew N1.

In other words: saying I knew Pine would join the crew N1 and thus bussed him D1 doesn't work as an explanation,

because on D1 I would have no way of knowing that action would be needed.

Basically, you've got a chronology problem on hand.
It wasn't: The crew was picked-->No scum were on the screw, thus Pine joined-->This made Pine suspicious, so I bussed.
It was: I went after Pine-->the crew was picked-->no scum were on the crew, thus Pine joined-->I continued pushing Pine, following through from D1 with new information strengthening a read that already existed.

Unless scum didn't talk at all, the mafia team would have known Pine's role, yes? Once Pine used his role there'd be pressure on him and a very big chance that he gets lynched. Pushing him early (b/c you knew his role) makes plenty of sense and thats what I've been accusing you of this whole time, not that you bussed Pine once his action was used. But even if thats what you believed for some odd reason I am outright challenging you on the bolded.

Heartless surpassed Infinity as RL around the 1k mark. Heartless was confirmed the RL at EOD. Nothing anyone else said mattered.

Like I think you are prob scum here b/c I have a very very hard time seeing someone of your experience and understanding fight tooth and nail against something that is easily proven. Like I said before, I'm not going to get you to admit that you are scum but Infinity wasn't the RL so it matters not what he said. I'll be around to lynch you once the mislynchable town are flipped.

[Nero Cain]

HOW HEARTLESS WASN'T EVEN CLOSE TO BEING THE ROGUE LEADER AT THE TIME.
At the time, Infinity was the Rogue Leader vote.
And Infinity had me as a pick.
The chronology doesn't fit. So no. Not rhetoric. That'd be YOU, bringing up an irrelevant point.

ok. lets look at your original statement.

Pine would only make sense as a bus if scum are powerful!

, she yells. Which ignores the whole point that Pine would get a major assload of heat as soon as he joined the RK without getting invited. B/c why the fuck would

TOWN

do that? Woman please.

Okay.
I 'bussed' Pine D1.
Pine entered the crew N1.

How does that work on your timeline?

It doesn't.
What's to stop Pine from having been a part of the crew?
What's to stop scum other than Pine from having been a part of the crew?

With the benefit of hindsight, that is, knowing who the crew picked was, you can safely assume the picked crew T1 was all town, yes.
But that's only with the benefit of hindsight, knowing Pine forcefully joined the crew N1.

In other words: saying I knew Pine would join the crew N1 and thus bussed him D1 doesn't work as an explanation,

because on D1 I would have no way of knowing that action would be needed.

Basically, you've got a chronology problem on hand.
It wasn't: The crew was picked-->No scum were on the screw, thus Pine joined-->This made Pine suspicious, so I bussed.
It was: I went after Pine-->the crew was picked-->no scum were on the crew, thus Pine joined-->I continued pushing Pine, following through from D1 with new information strengthening a read that already existed.

Unless scum didn't talk at all, the mafia team would have known Pine's role, yes? Once Pine used his role there'd be pressure on him and a very big chance that he gets lynched. Pushing him early (b/c you knew his role) makes plenty of sense and thats what I've been accusing you of this whole time, not that you bussed Pine once his action was used. But even if thats what you believed for some odd reason I am outright challenging you on the bolded.

Heartless surpassed Infinity as RL around the 1k mark. Heartless was confirmed the RL at EOD. Nothing anyone else said mattered.

Like I think you are prob scum here b/c I have a very very hard time seeing someone of your experience and understanding fight tooth and nail against something that is easily proven. Like I said before, I'm not going to get you to admit that you are scum but Infinity wasn't the RL so it matters not what he said. I'll be around to lynch you once the mislynchable town are flipped.

[Nero Cain]

Heartless is confirmed RL

Mastina: Scum wouldn't know who was in the crew

Nero: Heartless made it clear whom she wanted (also didn't Pine join late anyways?)

Mastina: But Infinity!

and I'm just like...ok he wasn't RL why does what he say matter over what the RL said?

Mastin/Titus and one of TWIE/AJ?

[Nero Cain]

atleast I'm the north side of null

[Nero Cain]

Did you review Smackdown Heartless?

VOTE: Cakez

could you talk about why you were paranoid that scum was pushing Kling?

[Nero Cain]

Who do you get internet from?

[Nero Cain]

I am so sick and tired of you pretending like you are better than you really are. I'm not sure if its all just an internet act, selective memory or what. I mean yeah, in X-men you got ran up and policy lynched. Yes it really was a PL, even AP, who was hard town reading you, wanted you dead. TBF, you

DID

have a (as in one) correct scum read but you were just so wrong about everything else. I'm sure there was a little "look at how many posts she has...NO MORE" but I think it was mainly you were just so wrong about everything.

We've already been over my "tunneling" you every game and I think its pretty clear that I'm not. Like in two of those games I was scum so I was obviously fake scum reading you, i was town reading you in two and misread you in one. That really doesn't sound like tunneling. What it does sound like, or atleast similar to, is how in Smackdown you were whining about me whining about you...when I wasn't. Ditto the thing about me, Cakez and Infinity keeping you from talking to ppl or whatever.

Maybe I'm giving you too much credit here but I don't see someone with three years of experience basicly act like they are surprised that Kling was getting ran up after hammering without a claim. You are prob scum here but its going to take Infinity and Heartless to lynch a bunch of other players before the lynch you.

[Nero Cain]

other than the fact that I'd kill Titus if the crew gets another vig shot what is your hesitation about? Like I was pushing Cakez and Mastin d1 and you said they were trash reads but you aren't town reading either of them right now. So what are you just upset that I called you out on you not wanting to put the maximum of 4 players in the hood n1 and you wanting to put a "scummy" player in?

[Nero Cain]

it took Mastin to point that out for you to think about that....meh.

[Nero Cain]

There's one pr that I doubt but its not Molla.

[Nero Cain]

...And you think that would pass as balanced against just a 2x Vanillaizer?

no one is arguing this.

[Nero Cain]

Once Pine used his role there'd be pressure on him and a very big chance that he gets lynched.

Yes, but my point there is: how would the scum know that Pine would use his power?

Your counterpoint?
"Heartless was the rogue leader, and posted a very public list, which scum would know. Therefore, scum knew that Pine would use his power, and therefore, you knew to bus him".

Yet you're refusing to address the very simple chronology problem with that.
Heartless posted the rogue leader list in the 1k mark, thereabouts. You yourself admit this, yes? (Because, well. It's in the fucking thread.) At this point, scum would know that there were no scum in the rogue crew. Sure! That's true enough!

Seems like there's no problem...

...Except I was pushing for Pine's lynch since the 500s.

So again.
You're not addressing my basic point. How the fuck would I know that Pine was going to use his power,

at the time that I started pushing Pine

?
I wouldn't.

You're pushing a narrative which simply could never have actually happened.

To use your own words?

I have a very very hard time seeing someone of your experience and understanding fight tooth and nail against something that is easily proven.

You're fighting against something easily shown.
I'm stating the facts, as they are in the thread.
You're stating a narrative, which relies on assumptions which have been shown to be inaccurate.
The only difference is that I know you're capable of doing this as town and in fact it's the very infuriating thing which lets me know you actually are.

If my original argument was that Pine was only getting pushed b/c it looked like him/other scum weren't being included in the hood then yeah you'd have a point.

My thing has been that Pine's role outs him using anti-town action and it would put heat on him thus he makes sense as a bus/distance from.

I've been debating whether or not the mod would put an automatic scum role like that.

Though if he is scum then Mastin would know his role and be pushing that

.

Given that Pine's role basically confirmed him as scum it would make plenty of sense as a bus.

and there are others.

TBF, I don't think there's any defense against my paranoia/point that Pine would make sense as a scum push so all this "but how would scum know he'd use his power" "but I was pushing him before Heartless made their list!" and my favorite one "Pine would ony make sense as a bus if the scumteam were POWERFUL!" seem pretty scummy.

[Nero Cain]

I assume something really bad is currently happening if Titus is saying something I agree with. Maybe she's distancing from you...idk.

[Nero Cain]

I assume something really bad is currently happening

like a nun getting mugged or poachers killing baby seals

[Nero Cain]

vote:ɀefiend

[Nero Cain]

vote:ɀefiend

You little shit

rude

[Nero Cain]

And my thing has been that Pine's role is not something the scumteam would use unless it was necessary.

I agree but pushing Pine in advance so you could go "but I was pushing him before he used his ability, I'm so town for it" make perfect sense.

[Nero Cain]

ftr if a Titus wagon ever got going I would un-votepark asap

I was sitting on Titus for fucking ever and even threaten to vote everyone that wouldn't vote Titus...why no vote then?

[Nero Cain]

Smackdown is over. You don't have to wait for Raw to finish to talk about Smackdown, if this is what you're referring to.

its not.

[Nero Cain]

Then why are you voting me?

So...your 100% and you rather die instead of Titus? If your answer to this is no then vote her and I'll unvote.

[Nero Cain]

So...your 100% town and you rather die instead of Titus? If your answer to this is no then vote her and I'll unvote.

[Nero Cain]

If Ttitus were town she'd be doing shit me thinks. I also got pretty sick of your "lurking". I know you were V/La part of it but how do I know if you are using it to lurk or not?

[Nero Cain]

What does the SB have to do with whether or not you had time to play?

[Nero Cain]

Maybe you ignored/skimmed over her points about that. If you have something relevant to share then do so

I had felt like your wagon was just sitting there for days so I had felt like scum were comfortable with your lynch. I guess you could argue that the Cakez wagon is the counter wagon to you scum so idk...I sorta feel like, if Titus were town why is it so fucking hard to wagon her? I mean they got my big arrogant ass leading the way and they aren't sheeping me why? I doubt anyone agree's with this but yeah...

[Nero Cain]

Can't believe I have to defend against someone trying to suggest I strategically V/LA'd to lurk.

And why shouldn't I think this is possible?

FTR I don't think either you or Cakez are scum. I think its like Titus, Mastin, AJ. What should I be doing if neither of my preferred lynches are getting lynched?

[Nero Cain]

As for Titus, fmpov if she were scum she would have already found a reason to vote me.

I feel like Titus is going for the towncred angle in this game. She did it with Kling and someone else. Why does she have to vote you to be scum?

Nothing has really changed WRT Mastina. Like I still think its plenty reasonable to suggest she'd early strong arm distance from her buddy who had a role like that. I don't necessarily feel like "but I wouldn't know to push him" and "scum would have to be powerful for it to be a bus" doesn't really cure my paranoia...quite the opposite.

[Nero Cain]

What should I be doing if neither of my preferred lynches are getting lynched?

[Nero Cain]

Nothing has really changed WRT Mastina. Like I still think its plenty reasonable to suggest she'd early strong arm distance from her buddy who had a role like that. I don't necessarily feel like "but I wouldn't know to push him" and "scum would have to be powerful for it to be a bus" doesn't really cure my paranoia...quite the opposite.

Ironically though, I do agree with Titus that it sounds Mastin is fussing about the lack of scum power.

[Nero Cain]

vote:Mastina

vote her or die

[Nero Cain]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=4875

I was scum in that game. Scum were 2 goons, a loved traitor and a motion detector. Town was a full vig, a full gunsmith, a full vanilla cop, a mason and a mason that was also a bodyguard. I thought it was pretty townsided and mhsmith0 defended said game as balanced. mhsmith0 also reviewed this game so this being a town sided game and Mastina complaining about it seemed like a plausible situation.

[Nero Cain]

lol

[Nero Cain]

YOU

were the one that was defending him from me on d1.

[Nero Cain]

you can lynch Cakes without me.

[Nero Cain]

no. I just want you dead.

[Nero Cain]

[nero, piper, infinity, mastina, aj]
[titus]
[molla, twie]
null line --> [pv]
[cakez, zefiend]

gut says PV is scum. Still not real sold on cakes and zefiend. Titus and Mastina still seem p scummy to me but we'll see how that goes.

[Nero Cain]

So you're saying both wagons are being DRIVEN BY SCUM on TOWN Zefiend and Cakez? And you say Titus moonlogics.

this is a horrible fucking reaction.

[Nero Cain]

intent to hammer

[Nero Cain]

Piper, the cakez/titus thing was that they've had scumreads on each other since early d1 and they didn't interact very much.

this isn't true btw. Titus was calling Cakez "bad town" while I was pushing Cakez.

[Nero Cain]

could you be a peach and show me your d1 posts where you mentioned suspecting him b/c I really don't remember that.

[Nero Cain]

vote:Cakez

[Nero Cain]

I don't buy that Mastina suspected Kuroi when she replaced in at all.

The RC was Infinity, Heartless and DP right? What was Infinity saying last night.

[Nero Cain]

Scum?

Such confidence!

[Nero Cain]

vote:AJ

[Nero Cain]

explain.

[Nero Cain]

Since when do you ever reset?

[Nero Cain]

Since when do you ever reset?

Unless the mod included only two scum in a large, I have to.

can you remind me who was your third scum read?

[Nero Cain]

Like seriously Nero, how could you NOT know that?

So why aren't you sticking with your trash reads like usual and then just adding someone else?

[Nero Cain]

Scum?

Such confidence!

The evidence is there. You said I didn't suspect Kuroi. I pointed out a post where I did.

And if you pretend you don't know that me saying "Scum?" is an actual fucking declaration, I'm calling bullshit and voting you straight out, because you damn well KNOW from MANY games playing with me that yes that is an actual accusation. The only thing stronger than "scum?" is "scum.", with a period instead of a question mark.

I suspected Kuroi. I did not suspect Kuroi as strongly as I did others, like Pine and SirCakez.
But I did in fact

hold

that suspicion. It's also evident in my initial readslist: In 529, where were you?

Nero
Molla
The Thinker
SirCakez
Pine

...Yeah. Fifth from the bottom. Out of sixteen players, you were the fifth-most suspicious to me at the time.

This is what you should have been doing on d1. You are free to argue that I am changing the narrative but I'm not. Yes, I was aware that you slightly suspected my slot but it was unsupported. But if we are going to play the game of "we know each other well enough"...you

KNOW

this is townNero so why would a presumably townMastin pretend like she doesn't know that?

[Nero Cain]

why not tell me where I went wrong?

you didn't policy lynch yourself d1.

[Nero Cain]

I just think its very unTitus like and it feels like you are changing your game to a "pro-town" style b/c you rolled scum.

[Nero Cain]

Nero you're making some weirdass moves this game.

explain.

[Nero Cain]

DP how do you have more than 1 track?

[Nero Cain]

vote DP for RL

[Nero Cain]

I'm not really sure. Aren't all of Molla's JOAT abilities one shot? If so why aren't yours?

[Nero Cain]

Nero you're making some weirdass moves this game.

explain.

[Nero Cain]

Nero you're making some weirdass moves this game.

explain.

Why are you avoiding me AJ?

[Nero Cain]

ok. I expect an answer later.

[Nero Cain]

no you weren't

[Nero Cain]

but lets say you were and then when I got @ you you had decided to sheep Heartless. Heartless is voting PV so exactly why aren't you sheeping?

[Nero Cain]

oh Titus there's an outstanding question to you.

[Nero Cain]

but lets say you were and then when I got @ you you had decided to sheep Heartless. Heartless is voting PV so exactly why aren't you sheeping?

[Nero Cain]

...............................................................

Heartles wants PV lynched...and a 2nd vote on PV isn't going to lynch them....even if Heartless wasn't ready to end the day like....I just...what the hell?

[Nero Cain]

generally you vote who you think are scum. Why is that a bad assumption to make?

A 2nd vote on PV doesn't do anything and I'm not sure why you are pretending like it does anything.

[Nero Cain]

ok why is PV town?

[Nero Cain]

ok why is PV town?

Not saying he is. I'm saying I need help on my reads. No amount of needling or prodding will get me to say something that I just don't know on.

Well when you said you weren't going to randomly vote town and since we were talking about you voting PV it made it look like you had a town read on PV. What "help" are you expecting if you aren't just going to sheep?

[Nero Cain]

but you aren't sheeping :/ and I want to know why.

[Nero Cain]

all I'd get is Nero is blocking me at every turn.

I haven't "blocked" you. So I've had a scum read on you. Want some cheese with that whine?

[Nero Cain]

if you want me dead vote me. If you want to sheep Heartless vote PV.

[Nero Cain]

I don't reread for a reason. Rereads just reinforce my opinions I already have.

[Nero Cain]

ok, how am I stopping you from shepping me om AJ?

[Nero Cain]

I...don't think I ever called you bad. I am unclear why you are not voting for PV after reaching out to Heartless and claiming that you were willing to sheep...but not sheeping.

[Nero Cain]

Want some cheese with that whine?

this is the closest I've gotten to calling you bad. I know that you want someone to "explain" where you went wrong and jazz...and I just don't really understand what you want. You are just all over the place...idk.

[Nero Cain]

vote:PV

[Nero Cain]

Just wanted to point out that Titus isn't replacing in and "I don't reread for a reason.

Rereads just reinforce my opinions I already have.

" allude to this game so Titus talking about replacing in seems shifty.

[Nero Cain]

I think Titus' frustrations are genuine. Don't see this slot being scum.

scum can also be frustrated. Don't really think its a towntell and honestly....I don't even get what she's fussy about either.

[Nero Cain]

[Nero Cain]

but PV is confirmed tow now.

vote: Mastina

[Nero Cain]

mastina, AJ, MOI?

[Nero Cain]

so what...you think its a bastard game and mafia has a power to fake confirm scum?

[Nero Cain]

that's not bastard

yes it is. Like its directly lying to the player if PV isn't town. That's like the definition of bastard.

[Nero Cain]

vote:PV

[Nero Cain]

I assumed it was legit (like an IC or public cop report) since the mod posted it. I also haven't seen the new movie yet.