Open 670: Near Vanilla (Over)
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Toto Mafia Scum
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I really really dont want sesq at lylo and we only have one ml left. Id rather we use it on him. Hawk is an easy ML and leaving sesq after him makes me paranoid about people pushing for hawk first.
Hikari you have been pushing Sesq all game why change now?
The only concern I have is that Magna was defending sesq so hard on d1 and d2 it makes trading himself with nebula a dubious play given the obvious associations. Effectively it would make his play a 2x1 trade which seems silly, specially since elena was still a viable counter wagon.just because you get evil player role doesn't mean you are a evil person at HEART - KainTepes!!!-
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Music Box Goon
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My scumread on Sesq isn't based on the association with Riley.In post 1545, hapahauli wrote:@Toto and MB
If part of the reason you think Sesq is mafia is an association with Riley, shouldn't you guys be voting Riley?-
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Creature Solve This Game
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Hawk Mafia Scum
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Hey guys I'll catch up in a second. I'm town don't throw our ML away on me because you guys will be in a world of hurt tomorrow if you do that.
Hapa I understand my logic was very poor and my reasoning wasn't solid. Unfortunately as town I have a very bad habit of second guessing myself mid post and so my analysis comes off very lack luster. Just check here in http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=69733. I have similar problems d2 when I have a good feeling about scum bussing and then second guess myself and end up leading town down a mislynch. It doesn't help things compound later that led us to a f3 where me, one other town read player and a confirmed townie are stuck and we lose because of sloppy play on my part.
Honestly I'm not sure where scum are and need to revalue. I was fairly certain Nebula was scum d2 but I was trying to be open minded that maybe Sesq and Nebbie were both town because it wouldn't have been the first time I was fooled by TvT.-
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Music Box Goon
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Music Box Goon
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See 1532. My read on you wasn't based on a link with Sesq.In post 1572, Riley Cake wrote: MUSIC BOX AND TOTO!!! Dontcha think it's wayyyy to early to say I'm scum because i'm partners with Sesq when Sesqy hasn't even flipped yet?? THAT'S JUST SILLY!!! You'll find yourself barking up the wrong three!!!!-
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Elena Fisher Mafia Scum
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Hiraki Survivor
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Because a Sesq lynch isn't happening today but a Hawk one will.In post 1575, Toto wrote:Hikari you have been pushing Sesq all game why change now?-
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Toto Mafia Scum
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Hiraki Survivor
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Correct - also note that ISO 63 is Hawk flipflopping for strange reasons onto the Nebulla wagon during D1. With the Nebula flip, it doesn't look pretty.In post 1579, Music Box wrote:@ Hiraki: I'm trying to work out why you switched to scumreading Hawk, from your links in 1558, and as far as I can make out it was because of his switch to calling to calling Nebula town in 1334. Is that right?
@Toto - Hap already wants Hawk to flip before Sesq. I am very sure that both are scum - if it makes you more comfortable to lynch one more than the other than this is something we should collectively discuss.-
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Toto Mafia Scum
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Yeah. So my point is that a Hawk ML doesn't really tell me anything, while a Sesq ML tells me Neb and Sesq were TvT and tells me a lot of what was going on D1.
So if it is just between Sesq and Hawk, I'd rather lynch Sesq today. That said, I think it is important we take it easy today and try to let everyone participate a little bit. We have 12 long days ahead before we need to make a choice.just because you get evil player role doesn't mean you are a evil person at HEART - KainTepes!!!-
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Hawk Mafia Scum
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Why won't we lynch Sesq today? Riley I also don't like.
I'm okay with Riley or Sesq at this point.
MB and Elena are still ? marks for me but I need to go over things from before and make my case against them.
VOTE: Sesq
I'll post again soon.
I promise you guys if you lynch me it will bring you guys no closer to finding scum. I am town.-
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Elena Fisher Mafia Scum
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Elena Fisher Mafia Scum
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Elena Fisher Mafia Scum
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Toto Mafia Scum
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Elena Fisher Mafia Scum
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Toto Mafia Scum
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Elena Fisher Mafia Scum
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Toto Mafia Scum
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Elena Fisher Mafia Scum
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Toto Mafia Scum
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This is an interesting post.In post 1040, MagnaofIllusion wrote:If I had the mystic power to kill myself and every player on a wagon I'd use it in an instant here.
Nebula,Lowelland Hiraki are all scummy as hell.
LUVis low key sliding by and would be a secondary pick for me (along with Elena) if I was wrong about any of the first three.
Music Box andBBTwould most likely be collateral damage based on my reads right now.
But I'm confident at least 2/3 scum are here and I'd make a 2-5 trade any day of the week leaving Town in a 6 on 1 advantage if I didn't net all three scum with my move.
If Sesq is scum, no one bussed?
If Sesq is town, was this a 100% town wagon?just because you get evil player role doesn't mean you are a evil person at HEART - KainTepes!!!-
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hapahauli Goon
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@ Elena
What in particular about the MoI/Hawk interaction has to be SvT? I've read MoI's filter - while he pushes suspicion on Hawk, Hawk is never in danger of being lynched. Also, Hawk is very clearly a secondary suspect to Nebula/Hiraki. Scum bus all the time.
@ Toto
I think some of MB's posting today is pretty townie. For example, him pointing out Sesq's contradiction about Riley...In post 1569, Toto wrote:Hap whats your read on Mb?
... probably doesn't make Sesq scum, but is requires a lot of very careful reading to pick out. Stuff like this makes me think he's actually looking through filters carefully rather than just forcing suspicion on a player.In post 1537, Music Box wrote:It was posts like 306, 310, 884 that made me think they weren't partners when I originally read them and it was those rather than the later posts that I was thinking of when I wrote that. But there's other posts like 885 that could be either coaching or buddying so they could just have been distancing.
But while going through their ISO's to check that I spotted this:In post 402, Sesq wrote:Riley Cake - acts in a way that's kind of... well, an act. Probably someone's alt, I don't really care.
In the first quote Sesq is trying to disassociate herself from Riley. In the second she admits knowing her. I don't see any reason for her to do the first unless they are both scum.In post 528, Sesq wrote:She's a friend on Discord, me and a few others told her about this place. I don't want to say anymore as I don't want game stuff ending up there at all.
MB is also hard to pair with a scumbuddy. MB/Riley is the only team that I can piece together with MB in it, and I really don't have evidence to call Riley scum. I think Sesq/Hawk is much more likely.A TeamLiquid Mafia journeyman.
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hapahauli Goon
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@ Hawk
Can you walk me through the post of yours I analyzed (about the Neb/Sesq wagon being SvT). As straightforward as possible. I want to know what you were thinking specifically, because the post is just very jumbled, poorly edited, and hard for me to really grasp.In post 1578, Hawk wrote:Hey guys I'll catch up in a second. I'm town don't throw our ML away on me because you guys will be in a world of hurt tomorrow if you do that.
Hapa I understand my logic was very poor and my reasoning wasn't solid. Unfortunately as town I have a very bad habit of second guessing myself mid post and so my analysis comes off very lack luster. Just check here in http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=69733. I have similar problems d2 when I have a good feeling about scum bussing and then second guess myself and end up leading town down a mislynch. It doesn't help things compound later that led us to a f3 where me, one other town read player and a confirmed townie are stuck and we lose because of sloppy play on my part.
Honestly I'm not sure where scum are and need to revalue. I was fairly certain Nebula was scum d2 but I was trying to be open minded that maybe Sesq and Nebbie were both town because it wouldn't have been the first time I was fooled by TvT.A TeamLiquid Mafia journeyman.
Need a replacement for your game? Shoot me a PM.-
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Sesq Mafia Scum
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At the end, I was very much against a hammer on him. I still leaned scum on him, but I wasn't that confident. Also, I don't really care about self-image as much as I do about finding the people who are murderers.In post 1574, Music Box wrote:
It doesn't necessarily. That part was more about Riley than you.In post 1544, Sesq wrote:Also, even if this is a good point on her, how does that make me scum?
Maybe you thought it would look town? Or were still hoping for a Nebula lynch? I don't know what was in your mind there but to me it looked like you were nudging the wagon along.In post 1544, Sesq wrote:What else would "I don't feel comfortable with this, everyone should move over to nebula" mean? If I were scum, what reason would I have not to go on Lowell's wagon?
I can't tell if this is terrible defense from town or scum. It almost feels TOO terrible to be coming from scum...In post 1578, Hawk wrote:Hey guys I'll catch up in a second. I'm town don't throw our ML away on me because you guys will be in a world of hurt tomorrow if you do that.
Hapa I understand my logic was very poor and my reasoning wasn't solid. Unfortunately as town I have a very bad habit of second guessing myself mid post and so my analysis comes off very lack luster. Just check here in http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=69733. I have similar problems d2 when I have a good feeling about scum bussing and then second guess myself and end up leading town down a mislynch. It doesn't help things compound later that led us to a f3 where me, one other town read player and a confirmed townie are stuck and we lose because of sloppy play on my part.
Honestly I'm not sure where scum are and need to revalue. I was fairly certain Nebula was scum d2 but I was trying to be open minded that maybe Sesq and Nebbie were both town because it wouldn't have been the first time I was fooled by TvT.
This feels really scummy, but Hawk does too... hmm.In post 1582, Hiraki wrote:
Because a Sesq lynch isn't happening today but a Hawk one will.In post 1575, Toto wrote:Hikari you have been pushing Sesq all game why change now?
Or he wanted to get a quick lynch on nebula (whom he knew was town, and must have thought was easier to ML) by hard-defending me, because if you had more people going after me, there would be less people going after him. Also, in the case that he died, he could have planted that in order to guarantee me a lynch. He planted down that apparent doctor claim, after all.In post 1588, Elena Fisher wrote:VOTE: Sesq
The hard defend from Magna makes Sesq look like scum
The scum team is in sesq/music/riley for me
Well, I already know for a fact that was TvT happening D1, and as for how it's impacted my reads, it made me realize that scum... well, I don't know. Were they all going against nebula or some against me? While Nebula's play was ultimately worse, I think there are a few good points about me, but those are almost always derived from me being not very good at this game.In post 1585, Toto wrote:Yeah. So my point is that a Hawk ML doesn't really tell me anything, while a Sesq ML tells me Neb and Sesq were TvT and tells me a lot of what was going on D1.
So if it is just between Sesq and Hawk, I'd rather lynch Sesq today. That said, I think it is important we take it easy today and try to let everyone participate a little bit. We have 12 long days ahead before we need to make a choice.
I don't think picking stuff out necessarily makes you townconf, Magna felt like he was delving pretty deep into the logic of things. Also, mislynches look more appealing if you have "evidence" to back it up.In post 1597, hapahauli wrote: ... probably doesn't make Sesq scum, but is requires a lot of very careful reading to pick out. Stuff like this makes me think he's actually looking through filters carefully rather than just forcing suspicion on a player.
MB is also hard to pair with a scumbuddy. MB/Riley is the only team that I can piece together with MB in it, and I really don't have evidence to call Riley scum. I think Sesq/Hawk is much more likely.1312
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