Micro 768: Geriatric Grey Flag Nightless - Game Over

[CultOfAthena]

VOTE: RayFrost

Are you the reason it's so cold outside?

[CultOfAthena]

I like Jingle's posting so far – he's getting the game moving.

VOTE: Keychain
Why no vote?

[CultOfAthena]

Athena, why is getting a game moving towny, and how do you think he is doing so? I don't see as much forward movement as you seem to in their posts.

Well, to be pedantic for a moment I never called it towny – I said I liked it. Perhaps especially under geriatric rules, it would be easy to just let the game stagnate, or to just wait until something else pops up for you to respond to rather than starting something yourself. To already be getting into the game on page one is something I enjoy.

This is scumtacular too.
- Emptyreading someone for something non-alignment indicative.
- Voting someone for low hanging fruit.

Low-hanging fruit? I'm voting keychain to get her to respond – you know, using your vote as a tool, and all that cliché such and such.

In what ways has Jingle got the game moving? I see Jingle making 1 RVS post, 1 discussion-ny post and 1 'serious vote' with dubious reasoning.

Why is it scummy to not be voting atm?

To be pedantic again, I didn't say that it's scummy to not be voting – I asked Keychain why she wasn't voting. As for why it

could

be scummy to not vote, in general scum are more self-conscious than townies. They care more about their appearance and avoiding any sort of conflict. I don't see an explanation for not casting a vote at this stage in the game other than trying to stay out of conflict, hence my asking the question, to see if there's some motivation that I'm missing.

I am liking Reck for town at the moment. Townlean on Aristophanes as well.

Why do you think Aristo is town?

[CultOfAthena]

3) Sure, yeah, but I wanted to give him an opportunity to subvert expectations. That whole line of questioning was to get him to explicitly commit to the scum claim.

Why? What's the end goal of that?

Luca, while he is putting things in my mouth, is largely correct. As an explanation to the reck is probably town bit, the associative there is not that both of them are voting for me. The associative is that Korts appears to be piling on in direct response to reck voting for me. Especially given daytalk, there is absolutely no reason for Korts scum to tie himself to reck scum that early over such a trivial thing. If either of them flips scum, it's a fairly safe bet at this point in the game that the other is town, more so than anyone else in the game.

This is weak. If anything, this would be the time in the game where scum might associate themselves the closest, given the volativity of wagons and the ease of dissociating yourself from your partner in choosing which early game wagon to follow. A shift in opinion at this stage in the game is to be expected, meaning scum could easily partner up now only to shift away later – a large shift in opinion later in the game would be subject to far more scrutiny.

Also, Luca may be scum.

Mind explaining this?

[CultOfAthena]

VOTE: CultofAthena

I think she is scum. Her posts may seem lengthy but their content is extremely superficial.

I get this accusation a lot. What seems to you to be superficial is actually how I form reads. I hate to do self-meta, but you could look at Open 702 if you'd like an example of my play as town.

Athena asks questions. But they are very empty questions, they don't have any heat or intent behind them and she doesn't lend any of her own opinions.

Also, Luca may be scum.

Mind explaining this?

I am liking Reck for town at the moment. Townlean on Aristophanes as well.

Why do you think Aristo is town?

How do these not have intent behind them? I'm trying to get people to reveal their thought processes – trying to get a feel for if what they're saying makes sense or not, feels forced or not, et cetera.

Meaningless discussion about Mafia theory that doesn't contribute anything to solving the game. Athena doesn't even try to make an argument as to whether Korts or Reck are scum and whether they fit into her theory.

It does contribute something towards solving the game – I think that anyone going off of what Jingle said would be lead to false conclusions, so I pointed that out. What I was saying wasn't even mainly about Korts and Reck, it was about Jingle. I'm mainly looking to see how Jingle responds. If, for example, he continues to push his point and his reasoning doesn't feel genuine, that begs further questions about his motivations and why he might be pushing that narrative. If he responds and his thought process feels genuine, that indicates to me that he's probably town, even if I disagree with what he's saying – that kind of examinating of the game seems more likely to come from town than to be fabricated by scum, to me.

Even though I start the game without posting a lot of reads, I assure you I'm still attempting to figure the game out. If you'd like a read, however, I think you're probably town for this – in my limited experience scum seem happy to leave me be more often than town, and your push seems entirely genuine.

[CultOfAthena]

@Mod, the votecount is incorrect – insanity is voting me.

If you don't mind sharing what name I know you by, Jingle, it'd be appreciated. If not, tally-ho.

I'd like to note that I haven't actually been too busy to post. I waited.

LAMIST. Really, why bring attention to this? Just for the town cred?

Spoiler: Korts

3) Sure, yeah, but I wanted to give him an opportunity to subvert expectations. That whole line of questioning was to get him to explicitly commit to the scum claim.

Why? What's the end goal of that?

I dunno, just, an easy first wagon to get the town going, I guess. And then of course the competing wagon of those who think the first is bullshit. Huh, looks like it all worked out.

You already answered this question in 32. Did you feel there was something more to be said, or had you just forgotten?

Oh yeah, I wanted to unvote.

Thanks for the reminder.

VOTE: unvote

I'll be back in a couple hours, expect deeper thought then.

This is bad. Do you have nowhere else to place your vote? There's no reason to not have a vote in play at this stage in the game, or in any stage of the game really, barring LyLo.

Spoiler: Keychain

Why did you think that just asking the question wouldn't get a response?

The assumption is you're voting something you at least find partially scummy

, not just to show you mean serious business with your kind of arbitrary question.

Yes, that assumption is correct, as I made clear later. As for your first question, I would think that just asking the question would get a response, but there's a certain "demanding" effect that following something with a vote has. Anything with a vote attached to it obviously indicates more importance, the effect that I was going for.

At that point I was interested in voting Jingle to follow up on my post, but that would have put him to L-1, so I didn't.

What about him being put at L-1 stopped you? What I see in this is someone concerned with how it would look putting someone else to L-1 with their vote moreso than actually concerned about the risk of a quickhammer.

While I don't want to rehash insanity's post 36, I agree with most of what they've said.

I disagree that a lack of transparency as described in 36 is somehow scum indicative, 1 but being pedantic over details to the point of nitpicking tends to divert town away from scumhunting and 2 immediately using self meta to excuse superficial questioning is scummy.

1 Is that what you think I was doing? I wasn't (self-admittedly, I might add) being pedantic just to argue a meaningless point – I was clarifying points that I felt others had misrepresented me on. What's more, you say that it "tends to divert town away from scumhunting", but unless that's what you're saying I was doing, your suspicion isn't based on anything that I've actually done. In the post where I call myself pedantic, I made points directly relevant to scumhunting – there's no diversion of any sort, like getting into some meaningless argument over definitions.

I've seen meaningless pedantry before – I wasn't doing anything of the sort, and I'm not sure if you genuinely believe that I was.

2 What about my questions are superficial? Like I've made clear before, I gather information from every question I ask. Just because you can't imagine what's to be gained doesn't mean that there

isn't

anything to be gained.

Also, whether or not you believe it's scummy, do you believe it's a valid point? It's not so much self-meta of some specific game, it's just my playstyle.

At the risk of being accused of answering for other people again, I reeeally don't like Key's reluctance to vote me. Nor do I like the fact that it comes up in every part of 49.

Aristophanes expressed the same hesitance in 48 – do you feel the same way about that? I'm not a fan of the self-consciousness in either case.

What do you mean when you say "every part"? From what I gathered it only played a part in her response to me.

[CultOfAthena]

@CultofAthena, so Jingle's made quite a lengthy post in response to your theory questions in 40. You made a lengthy post in 51 where you didn't follow up at all. So, do you think Jingle's thought process is town or scum?

Reading his response in 40, I didn't get the feeling that these were all things that he had fully thought through at the start of the game. That's not to say that I think he's making things up, however – just that his explanation seems too in-depth to be something he was thinking about early on, which is mainly what I was looking for as a towntell. It seems to me that he believes what he's saying so I'm inclined to say that it's a town thought process, but I certainly haven't come away from this with the level of confidence one way or the other that I was hoping for.

I also disagree with his assertion that the strategy I was describing would be suboptimal play, but I didn't feel that continuing the conversation would be productive.

I'm not loving Korts's most recent posts. 44 and 46 feel very non-committal, just dropping in to answer questions and respond to people that are scumreading him.

Korts said that he would be returning soon with deeper thoughts soon so I'm interested whether he will say anything more.

I understand the point about just responding to those scumreading him, but where do you see Korts being non-commital there, except perhaps in the unvote?

[CultOfAthena]

CultOfAthena asking me about why I mention my availability - transparency's sake. I don't see how saying I haven't been too busy to do the thing could be for town cred given that jingle specifically said "I don't find ray suspect of doing thing because he's probably too busy to do the thing," though I'd like to see how you think it could be. Please, do explain.

Ah, there's been a misunderstanding here, on my part. I had a whole response typed up before I realized that what you were saying originally was in response to Jingle saying that you would be too busy to come up with some plan. That explains you bringing up how you weren't too busy, something that I couldn't understand. I still think, however, that the specific mention of how you've been waiting to make your posts is LAMIST. I feel that a townie who was actually intentionally waiting to make as comprehensive posts as possible would simply do so and let their posts speak for themselves, without feeling the need to make the strategy explicitly clear.

[CultOfAthena]

Korts, please respond to my questions in 51.

I should have more to say later.

[CultOfAthena]

There's the repetition, with everything else snipped. Granted, I was most of the content in the thread at the time in one way or another, but it rubs me the wrong way. Having everything be about me and still not being on my wagon is pretty .

I don't really see those quotes as being strictly about you, more related to the conversation

around

you.

It feels like you're reaching for something to scumread me for.

Why does Korts as scum feel the need to fabricate something just to scumread you?

[CultOfAthena]

Hopefully I'll be able to respond tomorrow. Apologies for the inactivity.