Mini 1782 Game Over

[Nosferatu]

@Max: a person who cannot understand the game well enough for adequate play.

[Lowell]

Typically we see notice of intent to hammer, along with an explicit role claim (or lack thereof). Any reason we need to quickhammer here?

You and I have different definitions of quickhammer, guy.

[Lowell]

Someone hammer, please.

Why are you in such a rush to end the discussion Lowell? Don't want the replacements to get caught up?

So this is what you're trying now? GL to you.

[pisskop]

funnily enough, I do that kind of discredit a lot when Im scum.

When Im town I dont talk to the player so much as to the crowd.

[Huntress]

Sorry I wasn't able to focus on this yesterday, but I should be able to get to it this afternoon or this evening.

[Froot Loop]

Max, what's your interpretation of the Jake/FA fight?

Max - why are you reading the fights as TvT? Is there anything specific you can point to?

Also, can you clarify why you think Jake was close to getting lynched?

(my bold, on my post! haha)

What about this question?

[Maxous]

jake was L-2. That's what I would consider close.
plus the last 2 votes from lowell and pisskop were policy lynching votes, if he was scum he would of toned it down because his behaviour was certainly gonna get him hanged to keep the game civil if nothing else.

The jake-FA fight was a lot more personal than anything game related.

[Froot Loop]

Ok, I've also just seen Roshar's intent to hammer.

[Roshar]

@Max

What would you like to know Max?

you said you wanted time to talk.

I kinda agree regarding Shadowez, I wasn't stoked with him popping in with a wall full of questions earlier.

Oh, and Maxous was the first to unvote Clumsy. Hmmmm....

yeah, to prevent a quickhammer.
I would think you agree since you want the other replacements to catch up

besides from what i've seen you're case on me is you don't like me giving town reads on {FA,RC and yourself}
apart from the jake stuff

The other replacements promised to chip in by the weekend. They haven't kept that up.

It's not that I don't like the town read, it's that the term,'town arguing' is a sweeping statement. One that doesn't analyze individual slots for alignment.

And yeah, the Jake stuff. I was willing to lynch him prior to you entering the game. Your entrance did not change my stance.

not bothering to quote but Radiant Cowbells and Frozn Angel both having a go at each other and trying to figure each other out would point towards them being town considering they're friends.
If either was scum I would suspect the scum would try and appease and buddy the other to get an ally in the thread.
Neither did that and I would town-read the slots for it.



Frozen Angel was really really obvious town anyway and pisskop has been town too so I would be near 100% on that slot.
Maybe I could look to quote something from Roshar but she was pro-active and the arguments were solid so she came across as a town read.

Would agree that Frozen came out as really town, but the Frozen/RC argument clearing RC as well is a stretch. There's so much that went on after as well.

@Clumsy

If you're a meta person, feel free to peruse my first game on the site. I think Smith linked it above, or you could find it on my profile. I was scum in my first game, and I had no problem making cases for or against people. I'm having a hard time reading people in this game though.

Would you say the reason why there's little interaction from you is b/c you're having a hard time reading people, or being busy or little interest?
In terms of the pisskop read, I misunderstood your post with him. I thought you were addressing him, so scratch him off.

@Nos

DL is in 5 days and not all replacements are caught up and involved. No reason to hammer atm.

btw Nos, what are your current thoughts? Any current scum reads? You say you're ignoring me, but you're still voting me, so I'd like some clarification on where you stand.

I'm not completely rid of my suspicion of you, but it's an afterthought at the moment and I'm not actually reading your posts in detail. Lowell is pretty suspect right now. I didn't like his vote on me. His recent hammer request isn't as significant but is still not very good.

RC is making me double take too but I don't really think anything good will come of trying to analyze his posts.

What remains of your suspicions on Mhs? Do you find him scummy enough for a vote? Or does your vote on him sit idle b/c you find nobody else scummy? In that case would you describe yourself as

@Max: a person who cannot understand the game well enough for adequate play.

You say you're ignoring him, one would assume you're formulating town/scum reads in the meanwhile. Have you?
I didn't even notice Lowell's vote on you. Why do you not like it? (apart from the fact that we all don't like votes on us)

Alright. I'd recommend against consciously ignoring people, but there's been enough debating of playstyles in this thread.

Do you have any thoughts on Clumsy or his wagon?

Evaluating the likelihood of Clumsy being VI vs scum.

I like the fact that Clumsy's got some votes, but the wagon itself seems kind of shoddy and irregular.

On the surface it seems good, but wagon composition gives meh vibez

Can you point to reasons why you think it's shoddy and irregular? Quotes, motives, etc.

[Nosferatu]

@Nos

DL is in 5 days and not all replacements are caught up and involved. No reason to hammer atm.

btw Nos, what are your current thoughts? Any current scum reads? You say you're ignoring me, but you're still voting me, so I'd like some clarification on where you stand.

I'm not completely rid of my suspicion of you, but it's an afterthought at the moment and I'm not actually reading your posts in detail. Lowell is pretty suspect right now. I didn't like his vote on me. His recent hammer request isn't as significant but is still not very good.

RC is making me double take too but I don't really think anything good will come of trying to analyze his posts.

What remains of your suspicions on Mhs? Do you find him scummy enough for a vote? Or does your vote on him sit idle b/c you find nobody else scummy?

You say you're ignoring him, one would assume you're formulating town/scum reads in the meanwhile. Have you?

I didn't like how when we were talking he literally took every post and found some sort of implication that wasn't there and asked me about it.

I didn't even notice Lowell's vote on you. Why do you not like it? (apart from the fact that we all don't like votes on us)

Alright. I'd recommend against consciously ignoring people, but there's been enough debating of playstyles in this thread.

Do you have any thoughts on Clumsy or his wagon?

Evaluating the likelihood of Clumsy being VI vs scum.

I like the fact that Clumsy's got some votes, but the wagon itself seems kind of shoddy and irregular.

On the surface it seems good, but wagon composition gives meh vibez

Can you point to reasons why you think it's shoddy and irregular? Quotes, motives, etc.

It's super quick. It's odd that everyone suddenly came to the conclusion he was scummy. It's not that he made a scummy post and that was pointed out, it's that at around the same time, people just went "oh yeah Clumsy is pretty scummy, I should vote him".

[Clumsy]

@Clumsy

If you're a meta person, feel free to peruse my first game on the site. I think Smith linked it above, or you could find it on my profile. I was scum in my first game, and I had no problem making cases for or against people. I'm having a hard time reading people in this game though.

Would you say the reason why there's little interaction from you is b/c you're having a hard time reading people, or being busy or little interest?
In terms of the pisskop read, I misunderstood your post with him. I thought you were addressing him, so scratch him off.

A little of both, but honestly mostly the former. In every other game I've played, by day 1, there's been a few people I checked off as town, a few I suspected as scum, and a few undecided. Even if I was totally wrong, I still had reads. I don't know if it's because of who is in here being hard for me to read, or the replacements ( both number of people making things confusing and slight apathy because of them) , or what, but I'm not getting very many reads. I'm letting town down and I feel bad for it, but I don't know how to fix it. I've read back over things, but have gotten nowhere. I've thought about replacing so someone could play my slot better, but at this point, that'd be shitty to you guys, the Mod, and the replacement who has to recover from this.

[Clumsy]

I feel like shit because I'm a liability at this point, and even if I don't get hung today, I have to try to turn this around and get into the game, otherwise I'm a mislynch opportunity later. I haven't had this level of no points/content/whatever so far in any game, and I feel really guilty about it. I could try to tell myself that -someone- has to be lynched day 1, and most of the time (I believe) it's a mislynch, so it's not a big deal. But I'm better than this, and I'm not just letting myself down in this game. I'm going to spend some time re-reading (AGAIN) and see if I can actually contribute something to this damn game, because even if I get lynched, I want to help somehow. It's just feeling futile at this point though.

[Clumsy]

Fuck it, I'm going to go page by page and comment on any post that looks interesting.

[Clumsy]

Page One.

can we policy lynch kaintepes?

Not exactly out of common behavior of outspoken RC from what I know, but very arguably anti-town. Either:

Puts us a lynch behind (and a day of discussion, if done early, which I'm feeling was the implication)
-or-
Reveals a PR super early in the game.

can we policy lynch kaintepes?

Well, clearly we CAN, the question is whether we SHOULD. Or whether it'd just be fun to do for the lulz I guess

Not 100% sure what to make of this, seems either jokey and early game stuff (NAI) or noncommital to see how others react to the idea before jumping on or condemning (scum action).

You can try, but the games he's been in so far show Kain to be adept at slipping out of the noose.

This can read as a scum trying to defuse and early lynch on his buddy without putting himself too far out there.

Spoiler: These seem like just good funny openers.

can we policy lynch kaintepes?

Well, clearly we CAN, the question is whether we SHOULD. Or whether it'd just be fun to do for the lulz I guess

Thanks, coach.

pre-vote smith

Come, sheeple.

Good idea.

pre-vote mhsmith0

Let's get him all the way up to L+5.

can we policy lynch kaintepes?

Well, clearly we CAN, the question is whether we SHOULD. Or whether it'd just be fun to do for the lulz I guess

Thanks, coach.

pre-vote smith

Come, sheeple.

Guess it's to... roll the dice

pre-vote Jake from State Farm

forced, apologetic, etc. gogogo

No, RC, Jake is obvtown.

2. No provable randomness! This especially includes dice tags!

Guess it's to... roll the dice

Yet another reason why this needs pre-rope.

That doesn't count!
~Ircher

[Clumsy]

Spoiler: Page Two. (going to start spoilering walls)

VOTE: APF

Sketchy as hell.

I think RC is still joking here? Maybe?

Lowell's avatar is dice. Then again if I have to explain the joke there is no joke . Also should have been "guess it's time to..."

The missing word threw me off for a minute, but I really hope I wasn't the only one that actually got it.

Shaddowez is hard-defending and RC's scrambling to put up a pre-counterwagon.

Looks like we've got our scum team, fellas.

The two quotes above this one are the ones before APF's post here. There's absolutely nothing there. I read this as still joking in early game.

/confirming

Also, I wouldn't policy lynch. I've played with young players (Isn't Kein 13?) and I'd usually only jump the wagon if 1)it's later in the game and we don't have any strong leads and 2) said player is bringing the game down 3) if lynching them would clear up a lot of info.

Shaddowez is hard-defending and RC's scrambling to put up a pre-counterwagon.

Looks like we've got our scum team, fellas.

But you're hard-defending.


@Plain farmer, how old are you if you don't mind me asking. Trying to put things in perspective.

Was this as more joking, or did you take them more seriously here? Actually, furthermore, WERE you being serious APF?

/confirming

Also, I wouldn't policy lynch. I've played with young players (Isn't Kein 13?) and I'd usually only jump the wagon if 1)it's later in the game and we don't have any strong leads and 2) said player is bringing the game down 3) if lynching them would clear up a lot of info.

Shaddowez is hard-defending and RC's scrambling to put up a pre-counterwagon.

Looks like we've got our scum team, fellas.

But you're hard-defending.


@Plain farmer, how old are you if you don't mind me asking. Trying to put things in perspective.

/confirming

What a bad post

so you say he is a bad player but needs to live till the end to be omitted? policy lynches should happen as fast as possible or they will be tools for scum to just end game. I hate policy lynches anyway so...

Why is age even mater?

Pre vote Roshar

I feel like this was the beginning to either a misunderstanding or mkaing you look bad via Strawman.

wrt the policy lynch debate, did people think RC was serious with that suggestion on Kain? I read that as a joke/reaction test.

Could be, I think we're having a lot of misreads one way or the other this game.

But you're hard-defending.

Are you referring to 16? All I was saying there is that you can try to PL Kain, but he might deflect it like a blaster bolt off a lightsabre.

@Plain farmer, how old are you if you don't mind me asking. Trying to put things in perspective.

Twice as old as Kain, apparently. Does this help?

APF, how much experience do you have in games with Kain? (doesn't really matter much anymore, but interested in how sure he is that it won't happen)

Clumsy, I feel that your name should have a 'b' in it.

You can follow the wise precedent set by such words as "bomb" and "crumb".

It's probably not too late to create an account called Clumbsy.

I feel like this is so blatant that it can't be true. Or can it?

Only to the extent that shaddowez was absolutely going to the mat for his bud, smith.

Only to the extent that shaddowez was absolutely going to the mat for his bud, smith.

Lowell's avatar is dice. Then again if I have to explain the joke there is no joke . Also should have been "guess it's time to..."

The missing word threw me off for a minute, but I really hope I wasn't the only one that actually got it.

??? do you consider that "going to the mat"?

Yeah, I was very confused about this too. The more of these posts that happen, the less I think it's still joking, and the more I think that it's grabbing at things that aren't there to make an associative or case.

Ah, I see.

Pre-Vote: A plain farmer

Two reasons 1) it's an over-the-top rebuttal for a very weak case on mhsmith 2) I see no real conviction behind it.

I'm mainly feeling the first one. As of page 2, my top scum-read would go to APF.

[Clumsy]

APS is just branching around the bushes

he basically called half of the playerlist scum right now ...

Not sure APS is scum just yet. May just be weird. I suppose there's a meta read worth digging into there, but I'm not going to bother tonight. Maybe sometime over the weekend.

I was thinking the same thing when writing my last post. Did you ever go look into that? I know you looked into mine.

Thank you! It's from my favorite book series, "The Stormlight Archive" by Brandon Sanderson. I highly recommend it

It starts with Mhsmith's post 15. Lowell finds it suspicious and votes for mhsmith. Plain farmer agree's and jumps on the wagon in post 20. He later adds post 24.


All in all, no case at all. What was interesting though was that The plain farmer commented right after mhs's 'suspicious' post, so he obviously read it, but only found it suspicious after Lowell called it out.

I like this. I like this a lot. Very good point, I think it's pretty indicative sometimes.

All in all, no case at all. What was interesting though was that The plain farmer commented right after mhs's 'suspicious' post, so he obviously read it, but only found it suspicious after Lowell called it out.

This reasoning is bad for the record.
It's pretty common to just not think it was bad until someone points out stuff you hadn't seen.
That said, still think APF is scum for other reasons.

What did Lowell even point out? All he said was "Thanks, Coach" and then voted him. Nothing was called out that wasn't seen. And what are these other reasons?
This is why I'm starting to dislike playing with RC. He has a "I'm the best and have everything figured out already, but I'm not going to tell anyone, but everyone should just believe me because I'm RC" thing going on. Not to say he isn't a good player. I'm sure he is. Doesn't mean it isn't frustrating or annoying.

no one is voting anyone. this is pre game.

and what are you even talking about those posts are clearly RVS.

I thought so too. But it's just... too weird.

-All this stuff that happened down here-

I get the impression that RC was being serious and genuine, that he thought he caught a slip from his friend. After things were explained (I think there's a little bit of a language barrier there?), it seems to have been dropped and went back to normal. If there was any hidden meanings in there, or crumbs, I didn't see them. But I'm really bad at picking up on those anyway.

[Clumsy]

Oops, forgot to spoiler. Sorry.

[Clumsy]

Spoiler: Page Four.

Did anyone else read RC's 62 as him faking a town-slip?

Except there's no townslip in #62?

I -still- don't get this townslip thing. At all. Seems like more pulling stuff out of thin air.

@APF: Absolutly. Also, RC is obv scum for reasons too secret for me to publicly explain.

Yeah, totally thought this was serious... My bad.

WHAT IS GOING ON????????????? HELLO,,

my name is KAIN TEPES,, I like to play TOWN OF SALEM,, i hope we can all KNOW EACH OTHER VERY WELL............!!!

VOTE: RADIANT COWBALLS

I just... I couldn't stay in a pissy mood while I read this. As much as I kind of want to wallow in bad moods when I have them, I just... I can't read this without smiling and laughing. Cowballs... -snicker-
That really helped my mood, thanks Kain.

APF's pushes feel really disingenuous and the page 2 declaring people confscum shit is just awful.
If he's town and this is actually his scumhunting then I think town is better off without him anyway.

I really don't think FA's scum atm.

I agree that if this is actual scum hunting and not a joke, it's pretty bad. Not necessarily scummy though. What I find interesting is that while this isn't calling for a policy lynch, it's somewhat implied. Saying town would be better off without APF is essentially implying that it would be an okay PL. Which is the second time PLs have come up (albeit indirectly on the second) from RC.

...

Heh. Cowballs.

[pisskop]

hi, please dont do a page by page.

Just tell us your reads, highlight really bad/good posts/logic/etc, and do things to not be lynched.


But barfing up a page by page is mechanical, and it will create apathy

[Clumsy]

Spoiler: Page Five.

APF's pushes feel really disingenuous and the page 2 declaring people confscum shit is just awful.

If he's town and this is actually his scumhunting then I think town is better off without him anyway.

I really don't think FA's scum atm.

(my bold)

This is super weak. I haven't read APF's posts as close to a push, I agree with Roshar in 44 but that's why I'm basically disregarding what APF's saying. It doesn't seem to be meant to be taken seriously.

I'm more worried about the pushes against APF, particularly RC but also Roshar.

Yeah, pretty much my thoughts. Do you still feel this way Froot?

APF's pushes feel really disingenuous and the page 2 declaring people confscum shit is just awful.

If he's town and this is actually his scumhunting then I think town is better off without him anyway.

I really don't think FA's scum atm.

(my bold)

This is super weak. I haven't read APF's posts as close to a push, I agree with Roshar in 44 but that's why I'm basically disregarding what APF's saying. It doesn't seem to be meant to be taken seriously.

I'm more worried about the pushes against APF, particularly RC but also Roshar.

It's not about any

pushing

, it's about the way he's talking like an idiot suggesting that people are confscum on the second page.
Most games that I've lost as town have been either due to tunnelers who can't reconsider things or to scum disguising themselves as tunnelers and getting away with it.
I'm going to policy lynch anyone who does that shit.

So I was right about implying a PL. Interesting.

You were confident that he is scum

Now your saying your suggesting a policy on him ?

Ooh, this is a nice catch by FA I think. If he were confident that he was scum... That wouldn't be a policy lynch, would it? It would be a normal lynch, under suspicion of being scum. But if you were to know that they were town (by being the informed minority, for instance) then it would be a policy lynch... Wouldn't it? I think FA is onto something here.

I'm pretty sure APF is scum and it's only page 2.

I'm saying that being way too certain about reads is a scumtell and if they're not scum they're not people you want to have around.

In this instance I think that APF is scum.

Is this... implicating himself? Maybe not, because he seems to have a reason... but yeah.

can we policy lynch kaintepes?

Well, clearly we CAN, the question is whether we SHOULD. Or whether it'd just be fun to do for the lulz I guess

Thanks, coach.

pre-vote smith

Come, sheeple.

whats the case here?

Probably something about coaching. I'll let Lowell explain it.

"Probably"? Just probably? So you don't know what exactly the point is, yet you seemingly agree with it? This feels slimy as hell.

@APF: Absolutly. Also, RC is obv scum for reasons too secret for me to publicly explain.

how the fuck can someone be obviously scum in a way too secret to be explained.

I meant to address this earlier too. If you do have some magic way of knowing that, you'll have to tell us this "secret" reason or you won't be getting those votes.

Again. Oops.

[Clumsy]

Creates apathy for whom, the reader? Maybe. But if I get lynched today, you'll have all my thoughts logged here to look back on later.

I'm doing page by page less for you guys, more for myself honestly. I'm forcing myself to read and critically think about all of this, instead of giving somewhat empty reads without a whole lot of reasoning behind it. Me trying to do that before turned into those really bad posts that I would be highlighting.

I could do a recap every 5 pages or so, if people wanted to skip the pages and just read that?

[pisskop]

Are you L-1? because Id just as soon rope you and not have 2 pages of your pagebypage

[pisskop]

Creates apathy for whom, the reader? Maybe. But if I get lynched today, you'll have all my thoughts logged here to look back on later.

I'm doing page by page less for you guys, more for myself honestly. I'm forcing myself to read and critically think about all of this, instead of giving somewhat empty reads without a whole lot of reasoning behind it. Me trying to do that before turned into those really bad posts that I would be highlighting.

I could do a recap every 5 pages or so, if people wanted to skip the pages and just read that?

This is better, but, outside of the game, its better practice to not be so rigid in your content. It hurts you when you are scum, creates an inflexible pattern of play, and is a mark of sorts.

[Clumsy]

Yeah, but I think it's helping me at least here. I'm feeling my grip is a little firmer with this. Not something I would do all the time, but it might be good here.

I think I'm still L-1? What do you mean by this comment? You'd rather lynch me before letting others get caught up and in here than deal with my spoilered, honestly optional-reading posts? =/

[pisskop]

Right.

No.

Not at all.


Id rather lynch you and shut you up than deal with 2 whole pages of playbyplay from you. You arent sports center, and I dont watch that show.