Open 634: Sharing is Caring (Game Over)

[drmyshottyizsik]

VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

This is not a omgus vote this is a vote for opportunism. I have re read and am working on a wall post, but for now I feel fine with this vote.
VOTE: persivul

[Persivul]

WTF is it with this game and people announcing wall posts?

[drmyshottyizsik]

WTF is it with this game and people announcing wall posts?

Been doing it for 7 years

[BlacleWorks]

I'm sorry Maxous, it's just now that I'm claimed and UnCC'd I kinda feel like I can get away with easier methods of manipulation to get reads that would normally be unacceptable.... I just kind of took advantage of the oppurtunity to kill two birds with one stone. I'm sure you can come up with something better than that to do what your trying to do. And I felt like he was gonna evade that anyway but do keep in mind that I'm with you on that suspicion after all I tried something similar earlier and he kind of already put up a wall of circumstance to it. Figured he'd do it again if you find a better um... "attack" lol

I love this game...

[BlacleWorks]

BtW Persivul that is an OMGus vote. LOL shotty you are a very interesting character and your Avatar really puts it all together so to speak.
I just dont get how it's working so well...

[drmyshottyizsik]

Alexcellent:

Spoiler:

There is not much in the beginning from him. The first 7 posts can be summated to "Oh L-3's not a big deal".
The a I'll catch up post, then a prodge, then a I'll catch up post.

Then this:

UNVOTE: Blacle

I'm not a vig. I think it's just Masquerade that we're waiting on now to see if there's a CC?

I just want to point out that all of us are confirmed town to scum. They actually don't want to have their kills directed by town. They would much rather prefer to kill who will best advance their scum!plot. In a way losing a confirmed town early on at least makes scum behave in a more predictable manner at night one time. They are aware of this as well and it will naturally raise their scum paranoia and could lead to a slip. So in the end not JKing me is always the best option for town to take at this point.

More votes on Wgeurts please.

I really disagree here. Provided there's no CC, you have both a PR and are confirmed town, which makes you a major threat to scum. Going into D2 with a confirmed townie still alive is pretty good for town/bad for scum.

This feels off, but I see both sides. On one hand if you don't JK the vig you have a chance of JKing scum and also a chance of vigging scum. On the other if you do JK the vig you may absorb the kill , the problem I have with this post and the following conversation is that it feels like some are trying to direct what happens, and truly we need to keep that as quiet and uncertain as possible. The only people who benefit from know what town is going to do is the scum.

Then he posted some more nothing and then unvoted..

SUMMARY: Waste of a player slot, scummy when he is here, but not enough to confirm. Leaning scum

Aneninen:

Spoiler:

He started out with empty posts, and threw in some empty and baseless reads.
Then in his sixth post(post 138) he votes for blackworks for the reason of

Terrible start, cheeky-appeasing gamestyle, some speculation, sheeping vote and WTFs like his 124. Probably scum.

He votes bw for no reason other than not liking his playstyle and for a post that bw saying he doesn't like some posts.
This is the worst vote I think I've ever seen.

Then he goes on with empty posts and complains about not having meta for everyone and then calls Clumsy town for one post(post 148).

He then mobiles posts and apologizes, and goes away for a while until the JK talk came up, and then he jumps in, become active, and tries to direct actions. This is scum. Through and through scum action. Town gains nothing from directing like this.

Then he goes back to a mobile post and an apology, and then this.

Welcome.
Let me post something both terrible and useless.

This is happening so.

Seriously!

SUMMARY: Would be a waste of a player slot if he wasn't such easy to read scum.

BW:

Spoiler:

I've read BWs ISO three times no and I just can't put anything together. I think he is just newbie town. I really have no read on him so quoting him a bunch to say that would be a waste of all of our time, but given the circumstances I believe the claim.

SUMMARY: Vig

Clumsy:

Spoiler:

Clumsy has been fairly distant, I know he had problems so I'm going to reserve my thoughts on him until he posts more and I can develop some. However off of gut I think he seems scummy.

SUMMARY: Not enough, but leaning sucm

KT:

Spoiler:

He has 12 1 or 2 line posts all of which have too many caps and !!!!!!!!!, I think he is an awful player, but I will wait for a replacement for real reads.

SUMMARY: 12 Posts and he is KT, let's get a replacement.

Kurio:

Spoiler:

I feel similarly about posting a bunch of quotes from Kurio as I do BW, except for instead of null newbie I get a strong town vibe. Not for any super town post(because those are typically scum trying to look town), but rather for the lack of anything scummy he's done.

SUMMARY: Town vibes

Masq:

Spoiler:

Again we have another wasted player spot. 16 posts of nothing. I feel like he is trying town for posts 347 and 169, but it is a very weak and substance less gut feeling mainly

SUMMARY: Awful, but town?

Max:

Spoiler:

Not a whole lot here but I get bad vibes from Max

Should we discuss how our town PRs are going to handle their X shots?

ok.
how do you think we should handle them?

This is awful, again anytime a direction of shots is being made it is scummy or stupid or a god complex.

Right now I have a very extremely weak null scum read on Maixmous, Kuroi, and Percival, and Kain Tepes. Each one of these slorts have attempted to push weak cases that no one else is being opportunist about at all.

Well, somebody has to do something to get the game going. We can't wait around for scum to offer themselves on a silver platter.
I know you said you're fairly new to this so I'll cut you slack here.

-

Kuroi if you're town please reread texcats post and take a really good look. That was not a scum over the top defense. Also defending ones self is once again also not a scum tell. It's going "over the top" in your defense displaying over-confidence and/or paranoia that is scummy.

I don't agree at all - Texcat

a) had a passive-aggressive dig at Kuroi

b) what does Alexcelent being indifferent to the wagon have to do with anything?

unvote,

VOTE: Texcat

This is bad too. The vote almost blind sides you. He had no real good reason, he just used the post as a platform to sneak onto a wagon.

Then the rest of his posts are nothing but spreading confusion and WIFOM.

SUMMARY: Not enough there to real get much, but if a gun was to my head I'd say scum

Pers:

Spoiler:

Let's start at the beginning

VOTE: Blacle

I'm really sick of people declaring themselves conftown, even if they're joking.

You are taking a RVS and trying to grab reason from it. The point of the RVS is to catch people like you reacting to things like that. I should have seen it from here, but let's move on.

Dude, you should go and IC some newbie games if you want to be a teacher.

This was much too defensive. This was only 23 posts into the thread and you are already taking thing to seriously and preemptively trying to react. Next,

Right now I have a very extremely weak null scum read on Maixmous, Kuroi, and Percival, and Kain Tepes. Each one of these slorts have attempted to push weak cases that no one else is being opportunist about at all.

Wow that was bad.

Why was this bad? This was actually good. In fact the only reason this "was so bad" is because your name was on it. Again you are being way to defensive. Instead of scumhunting thus far you have insulted people and got defensive. The only person who gets defensive in a RVS or at the above post is scum. Scum who is scared and doesn't want to get called out.
Next,

Wgeurts. Most posts about theoretical stuffs instead of scumhunting.

IIRC I've seen him do this as town before. I don't particularly like it but it's not a scum tell.

Why the WIFOM and not even about yourself? This is terrible. Now you are not only defensive of yourself, but you are creating WIFOM around others!

BUT WAIT! It gets scummier! His next four posts are all one line. One is pointless, one changes his vote with no reason at all just a vote, the next changes his vote again with no reason but does change it to the latest wagon I might add, and the next post just says hey bw claim, BTW neither of those two past votes were on bw, and he didn't ever vote bw. He has to be the most opportunistic scum I've ever seen!

Then the opportunism continues! After the claim he stopped even pretending to scum hunt. All he has done since is try and direct the night action. He is insistent on it. This is so scummy.

SUMMARY: Scum Scum Scum

SirCakes:

Spoiler:

I didn't get much from him. He doesn't seem to like me, but I still not sure why exactly. He talks a lot but doesn't produce much. He almost looks like scum trying to act like town, but not sure how. I'm leaning scum based on gut.

SUMMARY: Maybe scum trying o look town

TextCat:

Spoiler:

..... So hard to read. Uh,,, I can see why he is an easy d-1 lynch, I say we just wait until tomorrow to give ourselves the TC head ache.

SUMMARY: Uh....

wgeurts:

Spoiler:

Ok so he posts a lot and seems very town to me. Probably my #1 town read. I have to go to dinner with my wife now, but when I get back I'll go into more detail on him.

SUMMARY: #1 Town read, more on him later, off to dinner.

[KuroiXHF]

I'm going to agree with Drmyshozzyizsik and I'll also follow Persivul's advice.

VOTE: Persivul

I've explained my reasoning.

[Alexcellent]

Reads list in order of towniest to scummiest:

Spoiler:

Alexcellent

BlacleWorks - No CC so he's town.

Aneninen - I was fairly null on him until more recently, a lot of his posts after the vig claim come across as town motivated to me. And his suggestion that the JK flip a coin strikes me as an idea that scum wouldn't want to put forward. I like him as town.

Clumsy - I had a town read earlier on, I think because the way he was posting seemed close to how I was approaching the game. I like his 148 wall. I don't completely agree with his more recent posts, like not wanting the JK to jail Blacle, and I don't really agree with his scum read on Wgeurts. But overall I get a town vibe from him.

SirCakez - Not a ton here, but also I like his content. He's not being opportunistic, he's not just jumping on wagons and he seems to be genuinely going against the grain to look for scum.

KuroiXHF - Don't agree with a lot of his logic but he's been one of the most active in looking for scum throughout this game. Feeling pretty good about him.

Wgeurts - Lots of content and a lot of scum huntery. Don't agree with everything he's saying and there have been a couple of posts of his that I haven't liked based on vibe, but not enough to get any strong scum read off of.

Persivul - At most, I'd say he's playing anti-town, but I don't see a lot of scum motivation in his posting. Scum wants to blend in and he's doing the opposite of blending in. Even with pressure put on him, he's just drawing more attention to himself. It's just the opposite of what scum wants to do. The only thing that bugs me is that he's clearly self aware of his play:

Masquerade voted. And evidently thinks he can make every single one of my posts look scummy? No mention of L-1 with this vote.

Must I repeat a straight-forward argument that was made just a couple posts before my own?

Do you really think I would play like this as scum?

And that kind of adds a layer of wifom to my read on him. But his reactions to wgeurts and all the pressure on him reads as more town than scum to me. Right now, I'm not comfortable with him being today's lynch.

texcat - Probably focused too much on her early game stuff. I don't think her putting me at L-3 is scummy at all, it's just the way she left the wagon that struck me as off. Another slot where I don't quite agree with some of the stuff she's putting down, and I've maybe been incorrectly reading that as scummy. But her 338 and 339 reactions seem legit to me and I just don't like how all the votes piled on her. Granted, I was one of those votes. But I really didn't like Masq and KT jumping on board.

Maxous - seemed like genuine scum hunting and questioning in his ISO. 74 isn't great. He's sat on his Texcat vote for most of the game and 331 implies that his read on her may have possibly changed. Wouldn't mind seeing a readslist.

KainTepes - annoyingly hard to read, so I'm reading him based on his votes. He jumped on the Blacle wagon and the Texcat wagon as they were both building steam and I really don't like that.

drmyshottyizsik - His content is meh, pretty null. But his voting strikes me as opportunistic. He had his vote parked on KT for most of the day, which achieved nothing. His Anen vote seemed pointless because he really didn't push hard in that direction, it feels almost like it was just a placeholder, meanwhile he pushed for Blacle's claim, now he's sheeping Wgeurts and jumping on the Persivul wagon. Seems opportunistic.

Masquerade - Not heaps of content and a bit of fluff in his ISO too. But this stinks:

VOTE: Texcat

I'd need to make a quotewall to explain myself and I'd rather not do that. Instead, if you don't agree point me to a post you think is town and I'll explain why it's scum.

If there's anything anyone wants me to comment on, let me know. I think it's a good idea to stop talking about the PR's. My opinion is they should do what they see fit, and there's no reason to inform scum about anything.

UNVOTE:
I was lazy and just went to look into your iso and had a gutfeeling you were scum so I jumped the wagon. I normally check the votecount, no idea why I didn't this time.

It doesn't really add up to me. Confident enough that Tex is scum that he can make a big quote wall and infers that every post she's made has scum intent behind it, but then unvotes, says it was just a gut feeling and I guess just forgot to check the vote count.

VOTE: Masquerade I'd be fine with a Masq or Dr lynch today.

[Alexcellent]

Alexcellent

His first post 9 looks a bit odd and awkward however isn't too alignment indicative as people are claiming. What's more condemning is his personal-bubble he only reacts to; all his posts until 300 are reactions to things concerning him. He lacks any reads outside of this bubble and isn't discussing things either. The way he coasted on his BW read looks really shady as it was an RVS vote, which he never later justifies with further explanation. He also has a scum-read on Texcat which he explains in post 120, the reasoning there is weak and honestly just wrong. I want reads from him on other players as well as further explanation as to why he scum-read BW and is scum-reading Texcat.

I don't think my reasoning there was necessarily wrong, jumping off a wagon that people start questioning is a suspicious thing to do and it didn't seem to line up with her own logic at the time of the L-3 wagon being fine, so I didn't understand her suddenly jumping off. That followed by her PR question was just iffy for me. But the reasoning there isn't strong enough for me to want to see her lynched.
I was fine with leaving my vote on Blacle based on 95 and 100 being dodgy and not liking his Maxous vote at the time.

texcat

Despite all the hassle texcat placing Alex at L-3 and unvoting remains non-alignment indicative and it will remain so all game, possibly with the exception of some scum-flips.

Do you feel this way about all RVS actions or just this one in particular?

[Alexcellent]

Maxous - has your tex read changed at all? Who are your scum reads?

[Alexcellent]

The cases against Persivul are looking pretty flimsy to me.

[BlacleWorks]

Are there any cases that look solid to you alexcellent? Consider that this is D1...

[wgeurts]

Anyway, the fact that you don't actually replace-out if you're really busy (which I believe, but I don't think it's the explanation for your play) and aren't producing content or explaining reads is concerning.

Really? Why is that gurts? Because in my experience, replace outs are more a scum than a town tell.

If you're town pressured for time it's in town's interest to get someone who isn't, you're speaking absolute nonsense.

I played badly in that game, and it's been a few months since I've not been playing awfully.

Yeah, I can see how you've improved by the way you pushed a town PR...

A town PR who literally admitted to making himself look as bad as possible as well as admitting to making up pushes on people, it would have been worse if I didn't push him.

[wgeurts]

Alright well I'm gonna just park my vote and lurk until I find a reason not to do this.

Wgeurts here's a fun question, If the JK doesn't JK me. Do you expect to make it to Day2? Is that the reason you think the Vig needs to be Jail Kept?

I expect to make it to Day 2 regardless, you vigging me would end in you being under so much scrutiny that it would be suicide.

[wgeurts]

Alexcellent

His first post 9 looks a bit odd and awkward however isn't too alignment indicative as people are claiming. What's more condemning is his personal-bubble he only reacts to; all his posts until 300 are reactions to things concerning him. He lacks any reads outside of this bubble and isn't discussing things either. The way he coasted on his BW read looks really shady as it was an RVS vote, which he never later justifies with further explanation. He also has a scum-read on Texcat which he explains in post 120, the reasoning there is weak and honestly just wrong. I want reads from him on other players as well as further explanation as to why he scum-read BW and is scum-reading Texcat.

I don't think my reasoning there was necessarily wrong, jumping off a wagon that people start questioning is a suspicious thing to do and it didn't seem to line up with her own logic at the time of the L-3 wagon being fine, so I didn't understand her suddenly jumping off. That followed by her PR question was just iffy for me. But the reasoning there isn't strong enough for me to want to see her lynched.
I was fine with leaving my vote on Blacle based on 95 and 100 being dodgy and not liking his Maxous vote at the time.

texcat

Despite all the hassle texcat placing Alex at L-3 and unvoting remains non-alignment indicative and it will remain so all game, possibly with the exception of some scum-flips.

Do you feel this way about all RVS actions or just this one in particular?

All pretty much.

[wgeurts]

The cases against Persivul are looking pretty flimsy to me.

Care to point out where?
You're making such a sweeping statement without actually backing it up.

[Alexcellent]

It's not really my place to defend Persivul but

Persivul

I'll be blunt, I think Persivul is scum. He hasn't done any scum-hunting nor does he interact with people. He's coasting big time, the intent to hammer and his recent jump onto texcat look awful as he explains neither. Once. Nada. "Bad vibes and I like the wagon" is not a good reason to be lynching someone, I don't understand how a logical player like him can accept someone's lynch without providing his two-cents. I know persivul's town and scum game, as town he's a lot more pro-active. As scum he coasts and makes the best of what he gets. Guess which we're seeing this game?

Maybe I should look at more of his games to get some more meta on him, but I would expect a logical player to not openly coast like this as scum. Him not explaining his votes isn't a scum tell. I think it's anti-town but why would scum do that? It makes them a lynch target.

VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

My god I literally cannot think how people think you are town right now.

This one post literally is my entire push against you summarised into one line. Coasting, opportunism and the whole package.

Like this, if he's scum and he's already being called out for not explaining his votes, why does he keep doing it so blatantly?

And Dr's case on him largely points to defensiveness in the early game when there's no cause or reason to be defensive. Most of the points in that case don't actually seem to point out real scum tells aside from the possible opportunism of his votes (i.e. on Texcat).

[Alexcellent]

Dude, I fucking get it if you have emergencies with your pets or families or whatever but if you're not going to be able to play this game, you should replace out.

Only three people have more posts than me. A couple people with fewer posts probably have more real content, but still, I'm at least in the middle of the pack as far as contribution goes. Check Masquerade's ISO and vote him if you want to charge someone with not playing the game.

p-edit: take your head out of your ass and put your vote somewhere useful.

This is bad, now this is the "why me fry my tell" I thought I saw with Clumsy earlier. Also the whole "I wouldn't do this as scum is" not correct as he does this as scum. I'll get some games as evidence.

What games was he scum and played like this? The meta might change my read.

[wgeurts]

Because it creates a huge layer of WiFoM; "would he do it as scum, would he not?"
This becomes scummy when you realise he could have instead chosen to explain his prior actions as well as providing content explaining his thoughts on the game.

[wgeurts]

I'll grab some.

[wgeurts]

Curse you persivul for not having a wiki, I can't find the games I read in that ongoing game so I can't talk about it and I'm not going to sift through pages of your posts to find it.
Here's an example of his town-game though: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p7670092
Notice how here he actually give thoughts on stuff and doesn't just kind of float around ect.

[Alexcellent]

I'll read through, and I might just go hunting through some of his other games and I'll give it some thought.

[BlacleWorks]

Are there any cases that look solid to you alexcellent? Consider that this is D1...

Bwahaha. Wgeurts, You seem to think I am playing under the same conditions as you. I don't care what town thinks about my actions. Isn't that um... what scum cares about?
I am almost positive you will be in lylo uncleared and in a 1v1 with some cleared town picking between you and scum.

[BlacleWorks]

This might need to be said.
Dear cop you can only trust your inno results on players you are currently null reading.

[Maxous]

Then the rest of his posts are nothing but spreading confusion and WIFOM.

uhh no?
where?