Mini 1698: MDCXCVIII [C'est fini!]

[Bulbazoor]

I like how he decided to call two of the people that scumread him confusing. If we scumread you, we have an opinion that can be discredited. You are not helping me do much with my read.

[implosion]

Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean they're scum. Woody seems to understand that. I'm not sure if boon does, given a couple of the things he's said. His current Woody fos just looks like him fossing Woody for disagreeing... which is honestly just stupid. This post gives the same impression.

I have ardently townread my biggest detractors for the way that they have disagreed with me. I'm honestly not sure if Boon is looking for intent in Woody's posts or if he's just blindly decided that it's him vs Woody.

This entire thing is kind of turning into us vs them (namely, those on the mario wagon refusing to find any common ground with those off it).

[implosion]

Also because it might be unclear, I still think Boon is town (although i disagree with pretty much everything he's said in the last 5 pages). Even if he's just arguing without looking for intent in Woody's play, I think he's just getting wrapped up in the argument.

[GrayFoxxxx]

I like how he decided to call two of the people that scumread him confusing. If we scumread you, we have an opinion that can be discredited. You are not helping me do much with my read.

Should I care about your read? What is it exactly?

[implosion]

I think one of my biggest pet peeves is this, though...

I think your NE case is fine. I don't think the mario case should be immune to criticism, just not defended to hell. Like god damn. be open fucking minded, people.

People disagree with you. They are allowed to do that. That does not make them closed minded. People are allowed to review the evidence and come to a different conclusion than you from reviewing the same evidence. If people have strong opinions they will defend those opinions strongly.

[dragonspawn]

I am not trying to frame anyone.

Did some one day otherwise?

[WoodyWoodpecker]

I am not trying to frame anyone.

Did some one day otherwise?

Did you really just ask him that?

go read post 271 and I think you will find the answer to your own question.

and people accuse me of not reading?

[Bulbazoor]

I like how he decided to call two of the people that scumread him confusing. If we scumread you, we have an opinion that can be discredited. You are not helping me do much with my read.

Should I care about your read? What is it exactly?

Shazam scum.

[GrayFoxxxx]

wrote

So we all think each other is scum? What's your point? And what do you mean I'm not helping you with it?

[Bulbazoor]

I meant shazam.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Lol idk why it quoted like that

[Kublai Khan]

At what point are you all going to realize that scum doesn't generally work that hard on Day 1?

[Sméagol]

V

o

t

e

c

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u

n

t

Bulbazoor [

1

]

:

GrayFoxxxx

FA_Q2 [

1

]

:

pisskop

implosion [

3

]

:

dragonspawn

/

FA_Q2

/

TheDominator37

Necessary Evil [

1

]

:

implosion

Shazam [

2

]

:

Bulbazoor

/

WoodyWoodpecker

pisskop [

1

]

:

Kublai Khan

TheDominator37

< MarioManiac4

[

1

]

:

/

Shazam

WoodyWoodpecker [

2

]

:

StubbsKVM

/

Boonskiies

Abstaining [1]

:

Necessary Evil

There are 13 active players.
Absolute majority is

7

.
Majority has

not

been reached.

Previous vote count
Next vote count

Spoiler: Current player list

[01] Bulbazoor
[02] dragonspawn
[03] GrayFoxxxx
[04] FA_Q2
[05] implosion
[06] Boonskiies
[07]

(searching replacement)

< Necessary Evil

[08] Shazam
[09] pisskop
[10] StubbsKVM [

*

]
[11] TheDominator37 [259]

< MarioManiac4

[12] Kublai Khan
[13] WoodyWoodpecker

Black denotes active players.

Grey denotes dead players (or replacements).

(

V/LA

) denotes the player currently is on vacation or leave of absence.
[

*

] denotes a prod.

Deadline is

29-07-2015 00:00 CEST

.
(expired on 2015-07-29 00:00:00)

C

o

m

m

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s

Looking for a replacement for Necessary Evil, but probably already have someone.

did he now?

I did!

This game's boring and slow-going.

This game is boring (no offense mod)

[Boonskiies]

At what point are you all going to realize that scum doesn't generally work that hard on Day 1?

one of the towniest people in this game. He isn't posting all to much, and yet, he still says this. No way he is scum. I like how people just 'forgot' they scum read Khan too.

[Shazam]

Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean they're scum. Woody seems to understand that. I'm not sure if boon does, given a couple of the things he's said. His current Woody fos just looks like him fossing Woody for disagreeing... which is honestly just stupid. This post gives the same impression.

I have ardently townread my biggest detractors for the way that they have disagreed with me. I'm honestly not sure if Boon is looking for intent in Woody's posts or if he's just blindly decided that it's him vs Woody.

This entire thing is kind of turning into us vs them (namely, those on the mario wagon refusing to find any common ground with those off it).

I think this is an important post.

It's true and very important that disagreement =/= scummy. But I don't think Woody understands that. I disagreed with him on the basis that he doesn't even know how to make an argument for what he thinks, and that made me scummier in his eyes. But I agree that boon DOESN'T seem to understand that, along with many of the other players who have been distracted from Mario/Dominator.

Us vs them is sorta happening, except that I don't believe that I have refused to find any common ground. I haven't found any common ground, but not because I'm simply refusing. It's because Bulb and Woody have not been using logic and reason. Rather, they have been misreading, misinterpreting, and using extremely poor debate form to cover up the fact that they haven't really made a case at all. If someone made a real case about someone other than Dominator or me, I might find myself agreeing with it. Now if YOU want me to show that Bulb and Woody have been doing this, I suppose I would oblige, painful as it is. I haven't proved it yet, because I don't feel like giving a lecture on debate tactics to people who just want me lynched anyway.

[Shazam]

Can I just point out that Dominator's post rate has dropped significantly since fewer people have been voting him? Could it be more painfully obvious that he is more interested in self-preservation than finding scum?

[WoodyWoodpecker]

ok so since this is the hot topic, I wanted to see why exactly people were voting for mario and what they said later to add to the fire.

Vote 1 - NE

Spoiler:

NE voted in post 70 saying that we need multiple suspects like mario suggested was strange - I disagree 100% that it was strange. Town does better when multiple people get pressure so this vote on the surface looks bad.

NE says we are better focusing on 1 person at a time - I disagree with this also.

NE later says that mario's response was strange and not scummy but he voted him to apply pressure
NE says that he was tying to justify his vote but was unable to and now he's voting him for avoiding a question, this question imo has no real relevance to the game. The question was one of these "why are you voting this person instead of that person" questions.

also mario admits that he didn't see the question and asks NE to ask it again, but NE never does so obviously it wasn't that important to begin with.

SO NE's vote on mario didn't really have much merit behind it and he hops off to FAQ for his opportunistic vote on none other than mario.

NE now moves slightly up my scum list than before. I feel like his push on mario wasn't genuine, he even basically admits as much. He never had a real reason to suspect mario and to do a 180 and attack somebody else for voting mario is also very odd behavior

Vote 2 - Bulbazor

Spoiler:

Votes mario for being iffy and wants him to stop talking about RVS - personally don't think this s a strong reason to vote somebody but meh, it's early
Later adds that he has played with mario so he is using meta not a fan of meta either
Later admits that it is basically meta.

so not really a big fan of bulbazor's push on mario either. I also think this kind of proves what Boon was saying about bulba being one of the more vocal people wrong because I don't think bulba was one of the more vocal people on the wagon, not at all.

Vote 3: Boon

Spoiler:

Votes Mario for meta - not a good reason to vote anyone imo, what makes it even worse is boon admits to not knowing how mario plays as town. If you don't know a complete meta, you can't use it as a reason to vote

boon asks gray why he is tryin to derail a mario wagon citing "it's day 1" like that actually means anything.
Boon again brings up meta talking about how mario got replaced in another game as scum. but again meta doesn't make a good reason to vote somebody


So boon has literally no reason to be pushing a mario wagon. None of the votes so far have been any good and boon's reason wasn't very good either.

Vote 4: Shazam

Spoiler:

shazam votes mario after a discussion the two had. On the surface shazam looks to have valid reasoning but if you read the discussion shazam clearly distorts what mario is trying to say. post 79 mario says - town should grill their own scum reads instead of focusing on 1 player. post 81 shazam distorts that and says "so you say town gains info by focusing on 1 player but you want us to do something else" but NOWHERE in post 79 does mario say town gains info from focusing on 1 player. That is a blatant misrep in my opinion and his vote is just a continuation. It shows manipulation from shazam.

In post 249 he tries to explain why he's scum reading mario but it is very clumsy. The way I read it, he basically is still harping on the "focusing on 1 person" thing. Shazam is trying to argue that mario should actually be for people focusing on 1 person because it will ultimately give us info that the person is town or something. Again I don't really understand his logic and anyone who says they agree with him

Shazam claims he is also the most vocal person against mario, but his entire case is based on either a misunderstanding OR a misrep. I'm leaning towards misrep.

5th vote FaQ

Spoiler:

He votes sheeping shazam, which makes me really confused because the post that he sheeps is so bad. It is so obvious that shazam is twisting mario's words. The vote doesn't stay on too long though cause 2 posts later he changes his vote

So after looking at the reasons why people are voting mario, boon's reaction to people speaking out against a mario lynch really makes no sense. Only 1 person had a "legitimate" reason for voting mario. I put legitimate in quotes because imo the reason wasn't actually legitimate at all.

Shazam's entire basis of attacking mario was based off what I interpret as a blatant misrep so I am good with my vote. I have also moved NE up the scum list a little, nothing about his push on mario felt genuine.

p.edit - see that is another example of a manipulative post. Shazam has to be scum because no way town is this manipulative

[TheDominator37]

Shazam what is you read on implosion?
Please support with quotes and thngs

PEdit: yes I am modding on another site that does not have the widgets this site does. I'm also taking summer gym and am in another game. I'll try my best to stay active

[WoodyWoodpecker]

Bulb and Woody have not been using logic and reason.

I actually have been.

[Bulbazoor]

I use my onw type of logic.

[WoodyWoodpecker]

they haven't really made a case at all

you do realize that a player isn't actually obliged to make a case right?

[implosion]

At what point are you all going to realize that scum doesn't generally work that hard on Day 1?

one of the towniest people in this game. He isn't posting all to much, and yet, he still says this. No way he is scum. I like how people just 'forgot' they scum read Khan too.

I'm willing to call this a minor towntell but I can absolutely see scum-khan posting this.

Can I just point out that Dominator's post rate has dropped significantly since fewer people have been voting him? Could it be more painfully obvious that he is more interested in self-preservation than finding scum?

I have done this as town before. I've had countless town games where I needed the motivation of a fire under my feet to get me going later in the day.

And Woody's been pretty damn logical imo.

[implosion]

I'm looking at Shazam more closely. I think at this point there's a good possibility that I could be convinced to join the wagon.

[Shazam]

Vote 4: Shazam
shazam votes mario after a discussion the two had. On the surface shazam looks to have valid reasoning but if you read the discussion shazam clearly distorts what mario is trying to say. post 79 mario says - town should grill their own scum reads instead of focusing on 1 player. post 81 shazam distorts that and says "so you say town gains info by focusing on 1 player but you want us to do something else" but NOWHERE in post 79 does mario say town gains info from focusing on 1 player. That is a blatant misrep in my opinion and his vote is just a continuation. It shows manipulation from shazam.

In post 249 he tries to explain why he's scum reading mario but it is very clumsy. The way I read it, he basically is still harping on the "focusing on 1 person" thing. Shazam is trying to argue that mario should actually be for people focusing on 1 person because it will ultimately give us info that the person is town or something. Again I don't really understand his logic and anyone who says they agree with him

Shazam claims he is also the most vocal person against mario, but his entire case is based on either a misunderstanding OR a misrep. I'm leaning towards misrep.



Shazam's entire basis of attacking mario was based off what I interpret as a blatant misrep so I am good with my vote. I have also moved NE up the scum list a little, nothing about his push on mario felt genuine.

p.edit - see that is another example of a manipulative post. Shazam has to be scum because no way town is this manipulative

Post 81 used the word "admitted". I have already explained at least once why he was admitting that town gained information by doing what he didn't want them to do. He claimed that we would know scum were ok with the lynch. That would be information. He did not have to actually say those words to admit that. My vote is very clearly not just a continuation of this point, as I have very clearly explained already at least twice. My reason for voting him would hold whether he was right or wrong. I will not be going over any of the above again in this game.

RE: post 249
The way you read it is to me, and should be to everyone, irrelevant. You manage, however, to miss the second part of post 249, which clearly explains away every point that you are trying to make. Of course you don't understand my logic. If you think that my vote had to do with whether he was right or wrong about what we should all be doing, you haven't been paying attention.

Even if you thought I misrepresented him to achieve my goals, why can't you see that he attempted to change the context of the conversation, waffled, and then left the game because of what I was saying? Don't you think that this kind of caving under pressure is scummier than misrepresentation (since you can't determine for sure if it was intentional)? Again, I didn't misrepresent him, but seriously....

Please explain how a post of mine was manipulative. Since the goal of this game is to persuade others to do things (for both town and mafia) I'm really not sure what you mean.

[WoodyWoodpecker]

Can I just point out that Dominator's post rate has dropped significantly since fewer people have been voting him? Could it be more painfully obvious that he is more interested in self-preservation than finding scum?

this post is manipulative because you are implying that the only reason why his post rate has dropped is due to less people voting him and ignoring or not even considering other things like real life stuff.