Mini 1368 (Game Over)

[killerjester]

Do you really think scum BBstar would bus Lupo D1 and then suddenly come up with a townread D2 because of Hellhound's flip?

Also..

I am therefore of the belief that someone must have been bussing Lupo either then or today.

Do you realize the most of the playerlist "bussed" Lupo so far? The only ones who haven't are you and Melmond.

[Cheery Dog]

Yes, I realise that, that's what makes it so true and actually me holding information probably isn't going to get anywhere - I'm just no good at keeping my investigations to myself. (fuck I'm going to suck when I actually get a scum pm)

so I'm an even-night cop, I investigated Melmond last night who turned up innocent. (though there is a chance they could be a godfather)
I investigated him because he was the only one who hadn't voted Lupo and he was one of my bigger scumreads.

Also where is this town read you say BBS gave of lupo? there was null after hellhound flipped vig, and then this post according to my 'crtl+F' skills.

Okay, a lynch for Lupo.

I bet he's scum.

[killerjester]

Lupo

:

So by me saying why each case was bad (a few times actually), I wasn't engaging?

Also, by me voting for someone else and stating why I wasn't starting a counter-wagon?

Also, me going against his case showed I had a town read on him. I didn't figure that the players would be so stupid to not understand that just because I don't exactly say "he's town."

Your argument is invalid. Try again.

The last sentence is what I would do if I was jester. I don't know about Lupo,

though I think town since Hellhound turned out to be vig

.

I don't think BBstar is a good lynch today.

Your information on Melmond is even more reason to select from my lynch pool. There's no way the

entire

Hellhound wagon was town-driven.

[basketballstar24]

@CheeryDog, That post was just a mere joke.

I actually thought Lupo was scum D1, more scummy that Hellhound, but after Hellhound flipped vig I thought he was null-town.

[Cheery Dog]

Your information on Melmond is even more reason to select from my lynch pool. There's no way the

entire

Hellhound wagon was town-driven.

Yeah I guess so, based off reads I've had in the past I'd be willing to do either I Am Innocent or idiotking from that wagon, but I probably do need to reread everyone again.

@CheeryDog, That post was just a mere joke.

I actually thought Lupo was scum D1, more scummy that Hellhound, but after Hellhound flipped vig I thought he was null-town.

You said they were about the same when you placed your vote on Lupo, and then were saying you should have placed hellhound onto L-1 after you were questioned about it being a mislynch.
Why did a town flip of someone who you thought was less scummy than someone else make this someone else less scummy?

[basketballstar24]

Since Lupo and Hellhound were clearly buddying, it seemed like Lupo has a town read.

I was about to hammer Hellhound because the deadline was almost over, I was willing, they were both scummy.

[triangle123]

Not much time to post, but in a semi-reversal of my reads, I think Melmond is town and pappums/Innocent is scum. I'm also inclined to believe CD's claim. Will post something more concrete tomorrow.

[Melmond]

After looking at all the players, and thinking about the flips, I'm really thinking bbstar is scum.
1. He seemed overly cautious about putting Hellhound to L-1 and then really seemed to want permission to hammer, just seems overly cautious.
2. Of course there's his really weird VT claim he made earlier.
3. Then he finally gives some reads and then stops giving his analysis because he says that we criticize him over it . That doesn't seem good.
4. I've said before that I didn't think the NS "lynch" was a scumtell, but I'm not sure, it might be.
VOTE: Basketballstar24 at least for now.

[pieceofpecanpie]

In light of what's been going on I'm inclined to agree on jester's scum pool. (Besides myself of course)

UNVOTE: Cheery Dog

Un momento por favor.

[basketballstar24]

After looking at all the players, and thinking about the flips, I'm really thinking bbstar is scum.
1. He seemed overly cautious about putting Hellhound to L-1 and then really seemed to want permission to hammer, just seems overly cautious.
2. Of course there's his really weird VT claim he made earlier.
3. Then he finally gives some reads and then stops giving his analysis because he says that we criticize him over it . That doesn't seem good.
4. I've said before that I didn't think the NS "lynch" was a scumtell, but I'm not sure, it might be.
VOTE: Basketballstar24 at least for now.

1. When I was cautious of put Hellhound at L-1, it was because it wasn't even close to the deadline. When I asked for permission to hammer, it was close to deadline, we had to lynch someone to get info.
2. Well, I thought I was going to get lynched before I got on the next day since many people got onto my wagon.
3. So? What's the point of my reads if all you guys are going to do is make no use of it? I was trying my best, so I guessed that I wouldn't do reads anymore. Fine, I'll do a read soon.

[Melmond]

1. When I was cautious of put Hellhound at L-1, it was because it wasn't even close to the deadline. When I asked for permission to hammer, it was close to deadline, we had to lynch someone to get info.
2. Well, I thought I was going to get lynched before I got on the next day since many people got onto my wagon.
3. So? What's the point of my reads if all you guys are going to do is make no use of it? I was trying my best, so I guessed that I wouldn't do reads anymore. Fine, I'll do a read soon.

It was more because of being cautious of putting him to L-1, it just really seemed like you didn't want to have anything bad come back to you later.
They will always ask you to claim before they hammer. And you've already said you'd give reads in post 456, which was a while ago.

[Cheery Dog]

If you're town then even if we don't listen too the readsstraight away, we can always refer back to them after you flip.
such as with pasch, was as far as I can tell suspecting killerjester and NS, which could indicate that killerjester is scum or that someone is wanting me to think that killerjester is scum.

[killerjester]

Please, Paschendale would've been all too easy to lynch today. It's more likely that the scum wasn't paying attention to the thread.

[Cheery Dog]

then it's NS, BBS or possibly IAI?

I placed myself into scum shoes to try and work out why that would could the case - yes he would have been easy to get him lynched today because of the chainsaw defence of lupo, however the problem would come when he flips town after a lynch.

but then maybe it was something he said and they thought he was involved in the no night 1 death.
I'm going to stop speculating on his death now.

[Nobody Special]

This is a shameless prod dodge.

I opened the daystart PM and truthfully got distracted and forgot. I just woke up from a Surprise Nap so I'll be up all night and I promise some form of content within about 12 hours.

[I Am Innocent]

Finished reading the thread. Still want to iso a few players, including Lupo, and I want to look at some meta of a player from a recent game I played. Will post thoughts, top suspects, and place my vote when I am done.

[Idiotking]

I placed myself into scum shoes to try and work out why that would could the case - yes he would have been easy to get him lynched today because of the chainsaw defence of lupo, however the problem would come when he flips town after a lynch.

I don't see where the problem would be for scum. There would have been an excellent reason for the town to push him, so there would be no way to tell whether scum or town motivations contributed to the wagon in each case.

but then maybe it was something he said and they thought he was involved in the no night 1 death.

Scum should let the town kill PRs, just because that lets them focus on others and let them maybe get another PR at night. So smart scum should still have let Paschendale get lynched. I'm still going with inactive/absent scum.

[triangle123]

Ugh, I'm in the awkward position where I seem to have town reads on practically everyone, and I actually now disagree with what I wrote before about suspecting pappums, so I'm going to use this post to re-evaluate my reads. I believe CD's claim because (1) he's been appearing townier to me since the start of Day 2ish and (2) his claim would be very risky as scum since pecanpie's miller claim implies there's a cop in the set-up. Even if pecanpie and CD are scum together, it's still quite risky to claim cop. If CD is town, Melmond is most likely town, barring bus driver or godfather or what-have-you. BBS, pecanpie, and killerjester are all fairly solid town reads of mine, so I'll eliminate them as well.

This leaves NS, Innocent, Idiotking, and KK.

A lot of NS' actual content strikes me as null just because he hasn't exactly been a huge contributor to the game or anything, and for a while I did suspect that his wagon was scum-driven simply because he seems like an easy target to jump on, but I agree with the analysis someone else made a few posts earlier in light of the flips about how NS' wagon was more town-driven. His interactions with Lupo seem to be mostly defensive since he makes statements like "I'm not really seeing the case on Lupo", but then later he flip-flopped a bit and called Lupo his second biggest scum read. That in conjunction with Lupo's interactions with NS makes me put him in the leaning town category.

As for Innocent, I did another review of pappums' iso and I'm not sure what I was thinking before but his iso strikes me as rather townish in that I agreed with a lot of what he said (at the time and in the context of the given post, of course) and his thinking processes felt very town and natural. From that, I'd say he's town, though I guess I'll have to wait for Innocent's vote and list of suspects to make a final decision.

Will finish up on Idiotking and KK tomorrow night and hopefully lay down a vote already.

[basketballstar24]

1. When I was cautious of put Hellhound at L-1, it was because it wasn't even close to the deadline. When I asked for permission to hammer, it was close to deadline, we had to lynch someone to get info.
2. Well, I thought I was going to get lynched before I got on the next day since many people got onto my wagon.
3. So? What's the point of my reads if all you guys are going to do is make no use of it? I was trying my best, so I guessed that I wouldn't do reads anymore. Fine, I'll do a read soon.

It was more because of being cautious of putting him to L-1, it just really seemed like you didn't want to have anything bad come back to you later.
They will always ask you to claim before they hammer. And you've already said you'd give reads in post 456, which was a while ago.

There was like a day left, and Hellhound was almost inactive. It was too late for a claim.

[Melmond]

There was like a day left, and Hellhound was almost inactive. It was too late for a claim.

no, in the first sentence I'm talking about when you didn't want to put him to L-1, because you thought someone would hammer him.

The second sentence I wrote was about when you claimed VT. They would have asked you to claim before hammering you, so you shouldn't have claimed.

[pieceofpecanpie]

We're not starting this BBStar finger pointing again, are we?

[I Am Innocent]

Lupo Analysis:

Post 21: RVS self votes, "j/k", votes KK
Post 47: will not commit to a town/scum read on Cheery*. does call him an intelligent player in past games
Post 51: defends hellhound**
Post 71: threatens Cheery* (his only scum read) with a vote, but wants to give him another chance. Does Unvote KK.
Post 94: responds to someone attacking NS and says "I feel that way on both Nobody Special and Kublai." Defense of NS possibly? And if he felt that way about KK, why the unvote?
Post 113: defends hellhound** again
Post 115: admits that Cheery* was the only lynch that he has pushed
Post 155: says about Cheery* "He was just an annoyance that distracted town from it's real goal." sugar coating at best
Post 158: says "The only things that jumped out was Cheery and NS/KK lurking"
Post 162: votes NS
Post 185: Continues to defend hellhound** while trying to explain why he didn't find NS scummy initially
Post 280: Continues to defend hellhound**
Post 373: Brags how he was right about hellhound being town
Post 421: votes NS
Post 545 (assume post hammer), he says NS is scum

* likely town
** confirmed town

The guy has 4 votes, an RVS for himself, and RVS for KK, and 2 for NS.

He defended a confirmed townie (hellhound), he failed to produce scum reads beyond Cheery/NS/KK, and yet did not vote his biggest scumread the whole time (likely townie Cheery), and KK only as an RVS vote.

I think Lupo was scared to make enemies. I think he took the safe road and voted his teammate, NS. When NS first started getting some heat, he said, wait, he is not the only one lurking, KK is too. Yet he then votes NS twice later. Only after receiving pressure himself tho.

I want to read my last game with NS. He was scum that game. I want to see if he voted any of his partners, because while Lupo voted NS twice, NS vowed not to vote Lupo unless a deadline was coming. Curious to see if this holds true in that other game too. I don't think NS is a busser...

My thoughts, I am pretty sure one of NS and bbstar are scum, likely NS.
Regarding the hellhound lynch, I would say pecanpie is the most likely scum, if not him maybe idiotking. Triangle is town.
Cheery is my biggest town read based on the claim/lack of a counter claim.

More to come, including my vote soon.

PS - NS, 12 hrs is a long time buddy, gonna post soon???

[killerjester]

Idiotking, can I get a link to two of your recent games? One should be scumplay and the other townplay.

[Idiotking]

I'll try and find two good ones, but they would both be two or three years old. This is my first game after coming back to the game.

This is Mini 951, which is both my best game and one in which I was scum. It's also the only game in which I think I did genuinely well, and was the last full game I played before quitting.

Mini 842 is my town game. I honestly don't remember this one, but since I was lynched D2 and I think the town lost, I apparently didn't do well.

[I Am Innocent]

Hmmm, NY157, NS did vote his one teammate twice (the Godfather actually), the first time was to put him at L-1 and draw a cop claim. The second time it was under much scrutiny "I am not tying to stop a Hayker lynch." (Post 795, and Hayker was the Godfather)

The interesting thing, 15 posts in a game that went 5 "Days" and over 900 posts total.

That's enough for me.

vote Nobody Special