Mini 1604 -- Zodiac Mafia (Game Over)

[PeregrineV]

In terms of actual reading, Nacho is town regardless of his misreading of me, he is scumhunting early and like I said earlier, scumhunting and getting us out of RVS is always protown. SC slightly less, but still. Gemini is looking good too, based on the fact that I feel like STD would love to hop on my wagon based on my personality.

On the other side of things, I don't like Xay. All three votes of his have been bandwagons on Iec, WP, and myself, respectively. It just seems like trying to hiding behind the crowd on a mislynch.

Out of all the people on my wagon, Xay's and PV's votes are the worse. PV waits until Nacho tells him to hop on to vote, which seems as justified as Xay's reasoning. I think more pressure need to be put onto PV, Xay, or both.

Town:

Nacho/SC: I already explained these reads.
Gemini: I feel like STD would be handling my wagon differently if he was scum.

Null:

Juls (Aronis): If this was a micro, I would be sheeping her by now, but this is obviously not the case. She fakes a dayvig, not quite sure of the test she was trying to perform. Other than vigspec, hasn't been much out of her. Is the fake dayvig more townish or scummish in this game. (Leans town)

Iec: there may be a connection between him and Juls. I'm not sure. Against setup spec as well. Want to hear more from him now that I'm here and playing (null)

Burn (CTD): This "I'm voting people for setup spec" of his seems off compared to SC/Nacho. Says that I'm scum for dayvig spec and Juls scum because of her plan being complicated. Definitely want to hear more from him. (Null)

Witness/Toasty: Yeah... What was that wagon on him about other than Nacho showing he makes town his bitch. (null)

Elyse: what bugs me the most about her is that she is serious(?) voting Xay, but doesn't have any scumreads. So is Xay a nullread worth pressuring or what? Possible sitting around, but not enough has been said on her end to make me believe anything yet. (Leans scum)

Dry-Fit: I don't like him. His subtle "I am a dayblocker" joke was unnecessary regardless of the joke. Scumreads my townreads, and states strategy is a scumtell, where (IMO) I've seen it as town more than scum. (Leans scum)

Scum:

PV/Xay: Best case of scum on my wagon for reasons already stated.

Sal "reads" list.

There also seems to be a lot of Sal bitching about people sheeping Nacho, but him finding Nacho himself town.

[PeregrineV]

Somewhere between VC1-8 and 1-9, the wagon shifted from me to Sal. Need to dig in there to see what caused the vote shift. (2 has each VC)

[ToastyToast]

Why do you want to lynch Nacho?

The longer Nacho is alive, the more I want to lynch him.

No. Actual reasons plz

[RedCoyote]

Prodding CTD/Nacho

---

Vote Count 2 - 2

• PeregrineV (2) ( Iecerint - Nachomamma8)
  Aronis (2) ( Dry-fit -
  StrangerCoug
  - Xayzeck)
  
  Dry-fit (1) ( CrashTextDummie)
  Xayzeck (1) ( StrangerCoug)
  
  Not Voting (3) ( PeregrineV -
  Xayzeck
  - Aronis - ToastyToast)

With nine alive, it takes five to lynch.
Current Deadline:

(expired on 2014-09-28 15:10:00)

[Xayzeck]

Why do you want to lynch Nacho?

The longer Nacho is alive, the more I want to lynch him.

No. Actual reasons plz

I am not even joking.

The longer Nacho is alive, the more I want to lynch him.

[Xayzeck]

Please elaborate. If you're saying it's because he's not getting night killed, I think that's too much speculation at the time being. It's only been one night, so it's really hard to tell. For all we know there's an Sk and the mafia and a doc blocked a kill.

If you're saying his play is really scummy lately, I'm not seeing it.

I agree that 1 night is too quick to call him scum, but that'd explain why I'm not voting him at the moment, right?

I don't particularly think his play is scummy either, but unless it's just me, he's got a lot less game presence than I'd expect townNacho to exhibit.

Specifically play wise with alignmenttells though, I don't find him particularly scummy, and I used to find him towny, but for the past while he's just kinda of been there and around to me.

[Xayzeck]

This does not really tell us anything other than how long he's alive is a factor in how scummy he is, which is unreliable by itself in the first place. As Aronis said, support what you're saying.

lol ur quick with your votes

[Xayzeck]

The general idea with Nacho alive = I want to lynch him more is really just "there are certain players who don't make it to lylo" kind of tell, and the closer we get to lylo, the more I think that person is scum, because the only reason they aren't dead, is because they're scum.

And I have Nacho in that "certain players".

Is 1 night too quick to say "let's lynch Nacho"? Duh, but I never asked to lynch him now. I wouldn't mind though, don't get me wrong, and this point itself isn't enough for me to want to lynch Nacho. But who died instead? Gemini? I'm stepping into that NK Wifom zone, but I have no idea why Gemini died over other players, like Nacho/DryFit, who imo are higher up the townlist(in general, iirc).

So if Gemini died, probably someone who's generally more townread than Gemini would have made the kill, and that + the thing above has me considering a Nacholynch.

But I'd still prefer an Aronislynch.

[ToastyToast]

Is 1 night too quick to say "let's lynch Nacho"? Duh, but I never asked to lynch him now. I wouldn't mind though, don't get me wrong, and this point itself isn't enough for me to want to lynch Nacho. But who died instead? Gemini? I'm stepping into that NK Wifom zone, but I have no idea why Gemini died over other players, like Nacho/DryFit, who imo are higher up the townlist(in general, iirc).

So you want him policy lynched rather than scumread?

[StrangerCoug]

This does not really tell us anything other than how long he's alive is a factor in how scummy he is, which is unreliable by itself in the first place. As Aronis said, support what you're saying.

lol ur quick with your votes

And your problem is?

The general idea with Nacho alive = I want to lynch him more is really just "there are certain players who don't make it to lylo" kind of tell, and the closer we get to lylo, the more I think that person is scum, because the only reason they aren't dead, is because they're scum.

Assuming we have two scum left and mislynch every time until we get there, this kind of logic will also apply to you and three other players. If you are town and scum wants to lynch Nacho, you are playing into exactly the same trap they want you to fall for. Tell us what gives or die. "There are certain players who don't make it to LYLO" doesn't cut it.

[RedCoyote]

Starting to look for a Nacho replacement; CTD has a few hours left. Will suspend the deadline if necessary.

[Iecerint]

At first I was pretty confident that one of elyse/xayzeck would be scum, but soon after salamance dayvigged elyse and voted xayzeck. I'm trying to figure out his reasoning for this and I keep getting stumped.

My take on it is I think it was a desperate attempt to save himself. Elyse was arguably the town's biggest suspect after Salamence. So Salamence wanted to look protown by using his kill as a "second lynch" and killing Elyse. The reason I didn't vote Salamence immediately after he claimed cop is that killing Elyse was a protown move. It just seemed like bad scumplay. Salamence may have been relying on reactions like mine.

So I don't think the Elyse kill says anything about Xayzeck.

This sounds reasonable.

[Iecerint]

I don't really understand all the Nacho pedastal business. Seems really unnatural to me -- more focused on evaluating the threat of players to one's ability to avoid lynches than a genuine scumhunting attempt, especially on D2.

[Nachomamma8]

Starting to look for a Nacho replacement; CTD has a few hours left. Will suspend the deadline if necessary.

I thought I still had a couple of hours

[Dry-fit]

So we have less than three days here, though deadline extension is possible. We need a real wagon to emerge, and it should be on Aronis. He's dodged my question about why he didn't like my Salamence case. He hasn't brought anything to the table scumhunting wise today. Though he's not really the only one that applies to. And as far as I remember no one has a town read on him. Let's make this happen.

[Aronis]

Can I pick who hammers me then?

[StrangerCoug]

So we have less than three days here, though deadline extension is possible. We need a real wagon to emerge, and it should be on Aronis. He's dodged my question about why he didn't like my Salamence case. He hasn't brought anything to the table scumhunting wise today. Though he's not really the only one that applies to. And as far as I remember no one has a town read on him. Let's make this happen.

I can swing back at crunch time, but I like my Xayzeck vote better.

[ToastyToast]

Alright so I've concluded that Xayzeck is more likely town than scum because Salamence would have little reason to throw a scum buddy under the bus there. Killing Elyse destroys Xayzeck's credibility somewhat (That said his stance on nacho annoys the crap out of me)

Aronis lynch doesn't make much sense. I just don't get it.

People I'm willing to vote right now: Iecrint, CTD (who has been really under the radar and I should probably ISO them).

[ToastyToast]

Nacho, why is Aronis town?

Dry-fit needs to address the issues I had with his Salamance push, since the scum flip doesn't change how I feel about them. I'm miffed that he hasn't addressed them already, given the additional 3 days we got yesterday.

Is there a case against PV other than "Salamance loves bussing"?

Still have bad feelings about Aronis, but I'm hesitant to go back to that well after the way D1 played out.

Clearly I should say more, but I have another game I desperately need to catch up on, so it'll have to wait.

vote: Dry-fit

Not a huge fan of this post, for example.

1)With regards to Aronis town, innocent until proven guilty yo
2) Sorry but you are wrong about the Salamance push. Idk why you think Dry-Fit is scum.
3) Agree on PV
4) wishy washy on Aronis but also asking people why they have townreads on him (when he doesn't have a strong opinion one way or another)
5) Hasn't said anything since.

[ToastyToast]

So I'm willing to discuss Aronis read when I get to a computer but I'm also pretty disappointed by your dry fit read.

Then we can discuss both your Dry-fit and Aronis read and maybe you'll get over your disappointment.

Oh, sorry. He later made this useless, stand-offish comment.

[CrashTextDummie]

I'm still alive, will do something tonight.

[Aronis]

Wait, you're alive? I thought you were just a talking dummie.

[PeregrineV]

Spoiler: Vote changes between 1.8 and 1.9

Versatility is a great keyword for this dual sign. Expressive and quick-witted, the Gemini presents two distinctive sides to his or her personality, and you can never be sure with which one you're going to come face-to-face. On one hand, the Gemini can be outgoing, flirtatious, communicative, and ready for fun, fun, fun. Yet when the other twin is present, you can find this air sign contemplative, serious, restless, and even indecisive. Both twins are able to adapt to life's circumstances well, making them wonderful people to know. Things are never boring when a Gemini is on the scene.

Gemini's lucky numbers today: 25, 12, 8, 14, 18, 10

"What lies behind you and what lies in front of you, pales in comparison to what lies inside of you." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

---

Vote Count 1 - 8

• Salamence20 (4) ( Dry-fit - Nachomamma8 - Xayzeck -
  PeregrineV
  - StrangerCoug)
  
  PeregrineV (2) ( Salamence20 - Elyse)
  ToastyToast (2) ( Iecerint - PeregrineV)
  Xayzeck (1) ( ToastyToast -
  Elyse
  )
  burn_209 (1) ( Juls)
  Dry-fit (1) ( Gemini Blind)
  Juls (1) ( burn_209)
  
  Not Voting (0) ()

With twelve alive, it takes seven to lynch.
Current Deadline:

(expired on 2014-09-08 15:35:00)

I'm not explaining this in the right way.

You have two scumreads - Sala and me.

Your scumread on me is because I didn't have scumreads, so at that time (when I said I didn't have scumreads), your only scumread was Sala.

And I said I don't think Sala is scum.

So who was my scumread(s) supposed to be? I literally wasn't scumreading anyone, and you can't fault me for that because you weren't either - except for Sala who I specifically said I didn't find scummy. I wasn't going to make stuff up just to appease people.

UNVOTE: Salamence20
VOTE: Elyse

As I said, I don't care that you didn't, and still don't, think that Salamence20 is scum. I care that it took you this long to get a read at all, be it Salamence20, PeregrineV, Xayzeck—I wouldn't even care if it was

ME

if you had a good reason to suspect me.

You've demonstrated that you know I'm not here to decide your scumreads for you. Now knock it off with the misrep.

I'm pretty happy with toasty's catchup and salamence's catchup, which means intial reads weren't good.
Meanwhile...

Vote: PeregrineV

VOTE: Elyse

I'm extending the deadline by three days as I try to find another Cancer to preserve the theme. If I cannot find one by then, I have another player interested in taking the slot. Unfortunately we'll lose that part of the theme, however.

"Understanding" is a most appropriate keyword for this gentle, affectionate sign. Easygoing and generally accepting of others around them, Pisceans are often found in the company of a variety of different personalities. Their willingness to give of themselves emotionally lends to an aura of quiet empathy. A Pisces is comforting to be around. While not likely to be the leader, this sign's presence is strong and vibrant in any cause they put their hearts into.

Pisces' lucky numbers today: 24, 25, 19, 28, 34, 22

"There is nothing which can better deserve your patronage, than the promotion of science and literature. Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness." - George Washington

---

Vote Count 1 - 9

• PeregrineV (3) ( Salamence20 - Elyse - Nachomamma8)
  
  ToastyToast (2) ( Iecerint - PeregrineV)
  Elyse (2) ( StrangerCoug - Xayzeck)
  Salamence20 (1) ( Dry-fit -
  Nachomamma8
  -
  Xayzeck
  -
  StrangerCoug
  )
  Xayzeck (1) ( ToastyToast)
  burn_209 (1) ( Juls)
  Juls (1) ( burn_209)
  
  Dry-fit (0) (

  Gemini Blind

  )
  
  
  Not Voting (1) ( Gemini Blind)

With twelve alive, it takes seven to lynch.
Current Deadline:

(expired on 2014-09-11 15:35:00)

Nacho, Xay, and StrangerCoug all left the Sal wagon.
Stranger to vote Eylse
Xay to vote Elyse
Nacho to vote me.

Stranger voted because of misrep or slow reads or being slow to get reads.

Nacho voted for no reason given, but went from voting a scumread to voting with a (former?) scumread.

Xay voted Elsye for no reason given (but maybe 509?)

Really reluctant to do it, but a Sal townread and now seeing this.

Vote: Nachomamma

[Dry-fit]

Can I pick who hammers me then?

I'm not one for letting scum have things how they want them. Feel free to hammer yourself when the time comes though.

Wait, you're alive? I thought you were just a talking dummie.

Yea this is the kind of content Aronis is up to producing here. No desire to find scum. No desire to help he town. Kill it now.

@PV: I have my doubts about Nacho as well but he's not the lynch for today and it isn't going to get the support today.

[Iecerint]

PV's case is actually pretty OK, even though I was going into it being ready to start rolling my eyes.