Mini 1651: One Flew Over The Monkey's Nest(Scum Wins!)

[eektor]

Sorry guys, yesterday was a long day for me. I'll be catching up and posting later today.

[Taly]

Due to the Elyse VS Taly snatch-weave brawls, I think re-directing our focus off of one another is pretty good - she said it herself in 694, our stances DO in fact speak for themselves.

What is UtE and AtE? ._____.

With this said:

I mean, I don't mind where this is going, >> but we all know he's just bad town after all. <<
...

OK, who are you to just say for EVERYONE else that Metal is just bad town? Do you know that he is town? Plus, if you really were town, why would you pass up the idea that he is just bad town and not consider him scum? Also, if he IS bad town - why would lynching him be any different than lynching scum - if he is that much of a problem it seems?

This is a really sketchy comment, I don't know if mykonian is avoiding reasons to go after Metal(inadvertently buddying), or if mykonian is just being dismissive on him since he isn't getting his way with me.

That's fine. So since you are the only one here right now do you believe my claim? If I am the lynch, and assuming that you are town, after I flip town who do you look at?

My vote is running in an 8 formation, and you and mykonian are the circles.

I'm back to reading Taly as scum thanks to Elyse's long post on her. Some stuff got pointed out that I hadn't noticed.

Then maybe you'd want to reassess that idea because I've made just as many valid points as she has. (In a sense)

Taly and I have had very little interaction this game and has been either a null read or weak scum read. At the time of the top 4 he was weak scum at the time of that post null. Even in the top 4 list I said I wasn;t really interested in him to much.

How about we change this.

UNVOTE: mykonian <<< Since this currently isn't going much anywhere.
VOTE: Metalcyanide

1)

Since you've said that lynching me is more alignment reasons than actually getting information - Can you elaborate on this?

I personally think the idea of lynching me is solely based on getting information, plus - you haven't given us a recent update on why you think this. Other than agreeing with Elyses current post regarding the topic and not really saying much about what I have said.

2)

Who else is in your top 4 scum list, and why? Who do you most want to pursue?

3)

Why do you think IL is probably town right now?

He hasn't been very active the past few days, or said much info. other than a big readslist before Odds death.

[RadiantCowbells]

But ya VT here, RC has now pushed two town wagons.

Which makes me scum and not bad town... why?

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean given the entire argument around not lynching you is predicated on you being bad town I would have assumed you'd have thought to apply that label to others.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like yeah, I've seen what you're seeing WRT Metal actually being just DerpTownyMcGee but the honest truth is that I'm happy with him being lynched town or scum.

He's clearly not reading the thread, his votes are ridiculous and his positions are unsubstantiated in thought as well as in thread, and there's no one I really want to lynch today.

since he isn't getting his way with me

OK Star Fox.

[RadiantCowbells]

It does bear noting that I still consider him the scummiest player alive though, just to make sure people don't read that as "RC wants to policy!"

[mykonian]

I'll be sad if this day somehow doesn't end with a taly lynch.

[RadiantCowbells]

Taly lynch is not in the cards for me.

I'm on the fence about you and willing to support a Pisskop lynch, but that's about it right now.

[mykonian]

that's the day killer.

hmm. I see a pattern in your lynch choices.

[pisskop]

support a Pisskop lynch

che?

[mykonian]

your number came up <3

[pisskop]

Apparently. And here I thought I could be lazy.
. What exactly is the pattern to RC's votes? It seems to me she is supporting anything lurky.

[mykonian]

You know my opinion of RC. I think she's always a detriment to the town. I'm not going to try to understand her. Too dangerous for me, I'm not paid well enough to go down there.

[Metalcyanide]

Lets see recap between bed and now blah blah blah Metal scum or bad town blah blah blah
Taly jumps on the wagon
RC is interested in a Pisskop lynch???

Oh ya forgot to mention Boons vote on me is his second sheep vote for someone RC was after.

I find it as a possiblility for the enitre scum team to be already voting for me

[Metalcyanide]

Of course that's assuming we only have 3 scum to kill

[Metalcyanide]

willing to support a Pisskop lynch

Seriously explain this batshit insane comment

[toolenduso]

Upon further reflection, I feel more comfortable with a Taly lynch than a Metal lynch today. While Metal has done some pretty scummy stuff, I find it easier to explain those actions from a town perspective than I do explaining Taly's actions from a town perspective.

Spoiler: Metal_Examples

-#244 through #282 reads a little manufactured to me. Like he's coming back into the game after taking some time off and trying to show people that he's scumhunting by asking a bunch of questions/giving directives to people. The reason it looks this way is because some of the things don't really have a lot of substance to them ("how do you feel about lurkers?" "I want some reads out of you") and therefore seem like he felt obligated to put them there as opposed to really being interested.

Scum explanation:

He's trying to look like he's scumhunting, which makes him feel obligated to ask questions even if they don't really do anything.

Town explanation:

He's trying to get low post counters to post more, and as a newer player, this is just the most obvious way he can think of to do that.
-In #529, he accepts RC's ridiculous claim really easily.

Scum explanation:

As scum, he has no reason to disbelieve a townie's PR claim.

Town explanation:

As a new player, he doesn't have enough experience yet to know how ridiculous that claim was.
-In #563, he re-votes RC because of his "fakeclaim," after I call it "a bit of silliness."

Scum explanation:

He's trying to move the spotlight away from himself, or maybe he's just looking for a spot to place his vote?

Town explanation:

As a newer player, he sees something he doesn't understand (a joke claim) and jumps on it as weird/suspicious behavior.
-In #606, he gives about as noncommittal a stance on Taly (the other leading wagon) as it's possible to give.

Scum explanation:

Leaving open a reason for him to jump on a Taly wagon later. Possibly distancing from a buddy.

Town explanation:

Doesn't buy the cases against Taly.
-Claims VT prematurely in #714.

Scum explanation:

Is nervous and therefore claims early to avoid town lynching him.

Town explanation:

Doesn't know that town usually waits to claim until L-1.

Spoiler: Taly_Examples

-In #31, he more or less tells Elyse he might be persuaded to vote for Aqua if she can make a case.

Scum explanation:

Either he's having a hard time coming up with reasons to scumread people or he's afraid to do the dirty work himself, so he approaches another player about it.

Town explanation:

He's trying to keep an open mind about which players might be scum. The problem with that is that he's trusting another player, Elyse, who he should have no reason to trust.
-In many posts throughout his ISO, Taly provides long, detailed explanations of what he's doing and why he's doing it. However, he misses out on things other players are doing in the game like pisskop saying he's not able to take his second shot today and thinks that other players are talking about him when they clearly aren't.

Scum explanation:

Taly is very concerned with the way he looks and is trying as hard as he can to convince people he's town.

Town explanation:

Personality/playstyle.
-In #239, we learn that Taly partially hid his reasons for unvoting mykonian earlier in the game.

Scum explanation:

Taly didn't want to look bad, so he left out the part of his reasoning that made him look bad.

Town explanation:

Taly's given explanation (here) is that he was rattled by Elyse's pressure and was afraid of making himself look bad. Which is possible for a townie to do, but is really more indicative of scum IMO.
-In #259, posts a readslist where his only scumread is RC, who he lists as slightly leaning scum. Not much reasoning is given as to why this is.

Scum explanation:

He's having trouble faking scumreads.

Town explanation:

He's having trouble developing reads.
-In #288, he uses another player as his reasoning for scumreading mykonian again. Later he re-votes mykonian.

Scum explanation:

Again, having a hard time faking reads.

Town explanation:

OddMusic's words genuinely swayed him.

I could go into some other stuff in both ISOs, but I feel like those are the major points. I just have an easier time seeing metal's play coming from town than I do with Taly.

VOTE: Taly

[eektor]

@Mod: Can we have an updated vote count?

I had to go back 5 pages but I believe its at 4 votes for Taly and 4 for Metal.

Is it just me or is Boon just following everything that RC says and does? It makes me wonder if he is scum trying to latch onto an aggressive townie.

@Boon What makes you so sure RC is town or is right in his reads?

@everyone Have you seen a town roleblocker in a normal game before? From my personal experience (albeit limited) all the roleblockers I've seen where mafia.

@Elyse and mykonian If Taly flipped town, do you think there is a scum on his wagon? Who is a possible scum buddy for Taly if he is scum?

@RC Do you think pisskop is scum?

[eektor]

@metal Who do you think is the 3 scum on your team?

[Metalcyanide]

@metal Who do you think is the 3 scum on your team?

RC, Boon, Taly

[RadiantCowbells]

Not lurky, Pisskop.

Your post count is massive but you've contributed nothing to town, asked a bunch of odd things and never followed up, and a day 1 shot coming from your apparent role, especially without a claim, looks like a bid for towncred as opposed to something that comes from a town mindset.

I think you're more likely SK with a single day kill than anything, most likely also getting single shot bulletproof but not investigative immunity which would explain why you'd shoot D1; it risks the Mafia shot, which is something that you'd be pretty reasonably OK with, but it avoids getting investigatives on you.

This would coincide fairly well with Taly being a role blocker of either faction, which usually only pops up in PR heavy setups meaning we're looking at a 3 scum game with PRs on both sides, which makes a SK with both bulletproof and a day shot seem fairly reasonable.

[eektor]

@metal Who do you think is the 3 scum on your team?

RC, Boon, Taly

You don't think aquanim is scum?

[eektor]

Not lurky, Pisskop.

Your post count is massive but you've contributed nothing to town, asked a bunch of odd things and never followed up, and a day 1 shot coming from your apparent role, especially without a claim, looks like a bid for towncred as opposed to something that comes from a town mindset.

I think you're more likely SK with a single day kill than anything, most likely also getting single shot bulletproof but not investigative immunity which would explain why you'd shoot D1; it risks the Mafia shot, which is something that you'd be pretty reasonably OK with, but it avoids getting investigatives on you.

This would coincide fairly well with Taly being a role blocker of either faction, which usually only pops up in PR heavy setups meaning we're looking at a 3 scum game with PRs on both sides, which makes a SK with both bulletproof and a day shot seem fairly reasonable.

Are you saying this could be a 3 scum game + 1 SK?

[mykonian]

am I the only one disliking eektors last couple of posts?

[pisskop]

Not lurky, Pisskop.

Your post count is massive but you've contributed nothing to town, asked a bunch of odd things and never followed up, and a day 1 shot coming from your apparent role, especially without a claim, looks like a bid for towncred as opposed to something that comes from a town mindset.

I think you're more likely SK with a single day kill than anything, most likely also getting single shot bulletproof but not investigative immunity which would explain why you'd shoot D1; it risks the Mafia shot, which is something that you'd be pretty reasonably OK with, but it avoids getting investigatives on you.

This would coincide fairly well with Taly being a role blocker of either faction, which usually only pops up in PR heavy setups meaning we're looking at a 3 scum game with PRs on both sides, which makes a SK with both bulletproof and a day shot seem fairly reasonable.

Nonsense. I've done more than you.