Open 218: Two-fold C9 - Game Over

[Mr.Sandman]

vote Elscouta

For failing to dream up an illegitimate reason why anyone could be scum

[Mr.Sandman]

Surely Chrono of all people doesn't want to bring other games into this

[Mr.Sandman]

Defensive much? I didn't bring it up for the purpose of meta, more for my own amusement because you'd brought some other game into it ha. Why wouldn't it count as meta though?

[Mr.Sandman]

I wasn't saying don't bring other games into it. I wasn't trying to make a point when I said it. I agree that meta is a useful tool. And I also don't see why first game meta should be discarded as meaningless

[Mr.Sandman]

inHim uses someone trying to come out of RVS as a reason for voting, then says:

I probably am, but I saw fit to try this hard given my personally perceived pace of the game. I would very much like things to pick up.

unvote, vote in Him

[Mr.Sandman]

'Scummy bandwagoning propoganda' sounds very much like you don't like his vote because it attempts to start a bandwagon out of the RVS. Just because you chose to explain it by using the second part of what you said doesn't take away from that. Hence, the two are closely related - you say he's scummy for finding a reason to come out of the RVS and then you say you were annoyed at the pace of the game being too slow. They seem to me to be contradictory

[Mr.Sandman]

As in you thought he had a weak reason for starting a bandwagon, and that the bandwagon he started was therefore just the same as an RVS bandwagon?

[Mr.Sandman]

Sorry should've anticipated this but V/LA till Monday

[Mr.Sandman]

Alright, this is silly, and I won't continue this muddying of the waters. I won't drop my vote, though, because such an attack on my vote of ODDin is intriguing given the setup.

...because if what I said was the case, then I could've understood what you were getting at...

In response to said questions:

1. How long have you been playing Mafia? (inside and outside MS)
2. How would you describe your meta?
3. What's your win/loss record?
4. Favorite setup?
5. What do you think is the biggest scum tell?
6. How do you make your decisions?

1. Played about 4 years ago on another forum, had a break then came here. Never played IRL
2. Don't know how to describe it. Chrono's seen it as scum, he could probably describe that better than me
3. W2/L1
4. Humungus themed games
5. Weak pushes
6. I ask my mum

@Beefster :
* Could you sum up your case on easjo? After a reread, I still don't understand.
* What do you think of inHim?

Sorry questions hijacked

1. easjo gave two bs responses to questions XS asked on p.3. Since then he's been saying it was a joke, but says he already answered the questions.

2. Neutral atm.

WHy are you answering someone elses questions? What is it about the questions that you saw the need to jump in and respond to them?

Beefster's introduction of RQS at a point when it was barely needed looks like an attempt to come across as pro-town. I don't see what was to be gained by the RQS. The only thing it seems to have achieved is that beefster picked up on the fact that we should look out for chrono because chrono admits to having anti-town meta. Interesting that chrono should say such a thing because it could be an implicit attempt to defend whatever his style he may be seen to be using in this game. On the other hand, it may not. Just because he said that, doesn't mean we need to look out for him. I don't think we gained anything from the RQS.

]* What do you think of inHim?

Didn't I already discuss this?...
For clarification, I think he's playing village idiot, and that he's scum.

Village idiot and scum? Both at the same time? I think that is a highly unlikely scum strategy and a misguided accusation to make so early in the game.

Ah. Never mind. Someone misquoted you, so I thought it was on the same post.
(it was on the need to change votes->no reason to change votes.)

You still appear to prolong the RVS, along with inHim. Surprisingly enough, the RVS ended on page 2, on ODDin's vote.

You accuse inHim and easjo of prolonging the RVS. You were the one that decided to follow up the RVS with RQS.

FoS: Beefster

Your play is full of contradiction.

[Mr.Sandman]

XScorpion (1) Chronopie
inHimshallibe (3) Elscouta, Mr.Sandman, Beefster
Chronopie (2) Toon Fighter, ODDin
easjo682 (3) Scott Brosius, XScorpion, Mr. Chaos
Toon Fighter (1) Slepz
ODDin (1) inHimshallibe
(No vote) easjo682
12 alive; 7 votes lynch.

@Sandman: What's so unlikely about VI and scum? It seems pretty viable to look like you have no idea what you're talking about and be scum. Maybe I just used the wrong term. I'm suspicious with the way InHim been responding to questions as well- it's definitely not my only reason. I just thought that was a good way to summarize/clarify an earlier post. *shrugs*

As for the late RQS, I didn't really think of it earlier. The RVS ended really quickly, and I didn't really catch that until I looked in hindsight.

The chances of an experienced player playing VI don't seem particularly realistic. It would be obvious they were scum, because if they were town, then they wouldn't be trying to play stupid. What makes you think he's playing VI?

I noticed a couple of people who haven't contributed as heavily (ie: not at all) who showed up to post their RQS before promptly dissipating into the mist. I really don't like that.

Agreed. Like Chrono and Scott Brosius.

Then there are those who have yet to respond to the questions or contribute anything substantial instead - yourself, Toonfighter and slepz.
I can't see any reference to an inactivity limit in the rules but Toonfighter deserves a prod soon

[Mr.Sandman]

I just realized that VI was entirely the wrong term. My Bad.

A recap/reclarification on my case against inHim:
I didn't like his propaganda argument on ODDin. And I'm not at all happy with the fact that he attacked the first person to have a somewhat serious vote. (even if it wasn't for that reason) I never liked how he attacked ODDin based upon word choice and how he faded into the background when actively attacked. He's not playing like a 6th year townie would. (And I guess that's how I came up with the (invalid) VI argument- Mind you the argument I indended to convey is still valid, but no longer improperly termed.)
A potential train of thought: inHim sees a potential ending to the RVS and tries to blur it by finding a stupid reason to vote on the first somewhat serious vote. He then tries to prolong it more by saying that his defense of the attack (better than random vote = dishonest) was just "casting for nibbles." Then when he realizes that the end of the RVS is inevitable, he fades into the background.

Scummy if I ever saw it.

I don't like this for the fact that this is the second or third thing beefster has said where, when pressed on them and his arguments found wanting, he's backtracked.

Hmm, noticed some things I've missed yesterday.

Sandman, you've been accusing beefster of discussing a possibility of VI-scum. But Scorpion has been talking about that even earlier, and he even said he'd used the tactic of VI-scum himself.

Also, this:

The chances of an experienced player playing VI don't seem particularly realistic. It would be obvious they were scum, because if they were town, then they wouldn't be trying to play stupid. What makes you think he's playing VI?

is WIFOM.

Scorpion, how long had you been on the sight when you played VI as scum and were you successful?

Fair enough, I can see why that looks like WIFOM. I suppose it all depends on how people interpret the village idiot. But seriously, if someone is town, they're not going to intentionally play the village idiot and it should be obvious. Do experienced townies ever come across as the VI? I think that is highly unlikely as they're going to know what they're doing when playing the game.

[Mr.Sandman]

Apologies. Was away over the bank holiday weekend.

I take back what I said about VI and scum, given that it seems like about half the players in this game have got evidence of playing it and it working ha.

Which of course, doesn't account for WIFOM.

I honestly can't say I agree with your approach, but after this game if you manage to catch scum and I don't then maybe I'll adopt your method.

I don't like this post. It comes across as xScorpion claiming to be town, as well as knowing ODDin's alignment, both of which are scummy. The fact that there are two scum groups clouds this slightly, however, given that scum can catch scum as well and therefore everyone in the game is essentially scumhunting.

Having reread the thread, I dislike the way that mr. sandman jumped on Inhim for jumping on oddin's use of 'better', its sounds, to me, of either a) Chainsaw defence of a scum buddy, or b) scum defending a townie, to earn town cred. (or at least someone not of his faction).

I think you're picking and choosing your targets. I don't like the inconsistency in your play. Why do you dislike the way I 'jump' on inhim, but you have no qualms with the 3 players that raised similar points before me? My point was that I saw a contradiction in what he had said.

Confidanon gave very little reason for placing inhim at L-3, only stating that he disliked inhim's use of word choice as a vote reason. I don't really see why there's much more to say.

Why's it so scummy to place someone at L-3? He did give a reason. Do you have to give more indepth reasons for lynching someone the closer to the lynch they get? I don't see what's any different to ConfidAnon's reason for voting for inHim as anyone elses reason for voting him.

unvote, vote Chronopie

Contradictory arguments are scummy.

[Mr.Sandman]

I don't like this post. It comes across as xScorpion claiming to be town, as well as knowing ODDin's alignment, both of which are scummy. The fact that there are two scum groups clouds this slightly, however, given that scum can catch scum as well and therefore everyone in the game is essentially scumhunting.

I assume that even if ODDin is scum, he's scumhunting too, so at the end of the game I guess we'll see if he manages to discover who his enemies are.

I think there is scum on Inhim's bandwagon. Beefster's argument is absolutely horrible yet people have been flocking to push it.
@Mr. Sandman: any particular reason that you haven't voted beefster despite your many suggestions that he does scummy things?
@Confid: What's your opinion on Beefster and his attack of Inhim? Do you have any reads on people other than Inhim?
@Elscouta: Do you share ODDin's opinion of evaluating strategy over scumtells? If so, why does Inhim's play constitute scum? If not, what scumtells has he given besides the obvious "he voted for the first person to leave RVS?"
@Beefster: Do you care to make an argument against Inhim that isn't filled with hypocrisy?
@All four of you: If Inhim is scum, who is scum with him?

Of the four, if I had to guess at one being scum, I would say Elscouta. I don't like his sudden unvote of easjo, his coaching of Beefster, and his relentless assault on Inhim.

unvote
Vote: Elscouta

No, there is no reason. I don't actually know why I left my vote on inHim because I think my particularly point against him had been cleared up and that people were starting push things unnecessarily. My vote would be on beefster now if my gut wasn't getting a stronger scum vibe coming from Chrono right now and he needs the pressure because he's barely contributing. I would like to push beefster further however, especially given his last post - further evidence of backtracking, admitting his case was weak, and saying that he was surprised that anyone actually believed him. Also, his confession of tunnelling. It's like he admits all the scummy things he's done. I think he's trying too hard to appear as townie and cover his back with all these apologies about his play.

In response to your last question, I don't think inHim looks particularly scummy anymore

[Mr.Sandman]

XScorpion (1) Chronopie
inHimshallibe (2) Elscouta, ConfidAnon
Chronopie (3) ODDin, Mr.Sandman, Mr. Chaos
ConfidAnon (1) Slepz
Beefster (2) Scott Brosius, easjo682
Elscouta (1) XScorpion
(No vote) Beefster, inHimshallibe
12 alive; 7 votes lynch.

Why? I don't see it.

[Mr.Sandman]

Some of the assumptions Beefster is making seem very innocent/genuine. Also, the way he thought about his argument, and even rescinded some of it, seems town. I think Elscouta is town for trying to get people to focus (even if it was on me) and that XScorpion is actually town because of the way he was attacking easjo when no one else saw fit to do so. He kept an attack even after he was chided, I believe, and that's definitely townlike.

I think the way beefster rescinds his arguments sounds anti-town. I think it sounds like a scum player who realises that the reasoning he has given is wafer thin, particularly when put to the test, and has thus backed down. If it had happened once, yes, it could be genuine town. It's happened more than once though, making it less likely

[Mr.Sandman]

So have we reached that point of the game where we all just fling four names out there, with no particular reasoning and hope we come to a lynch? Helpful as a reference point in the future perhaps, but I'd like to see some arguments behind players lists. Particularly Chrono's list.

[Mr.Sandman]

My scumlist:

-inHim for attacking substance, prod dodging, low-substance posts, and weak responses (I still feel he's suspicious, but I don't have a solid case on him yet.)
-easjo for having voices in her head
-Sandman for following suit with me yet continuing to vote on inHim riding my weak arguments.
-Scott for being confusing (i would give a better reason if I had more time right now.)

Where have I been riding your arguments? I wasn't voting inHim riding on your arguments. I just didn't unvote because I didn't have anything particularly strong on anyone to change my vote too at that time. I don't know why I didn't vote you earlier because it was you I grew suspicious of, not inHim

[Mr.Sandman]

I'd like to see some links to Scott's completed games to see if he's this reluctant to say anything as town

[Mr.Sandman]

I think you're picking and choosing your targets. I don't like the inconsistency in your play. Why do you dislike the way I 'jump' on inhim, but you have no qualms with the 3 players that raised similar points before me? My point was that I saw a contradiction in what he had said.

Well, in much the same vein, why do you accuse chrono of saying that, while inhim said that much earlier?

inHim picked and choosed his targets from those who were on his wagon and ignored those who made the same case?

And for the people on the Scott wagon, does he really look more like an active lurker than Elscouta?

I'm not on the either wagon but the longer this game goes on, the more Elscouta actively lurks

FoS: Elscouta

Also, having looked at the links Scott provided, from those, I think his play style at least seems roughly comparable.

Scott really only has active lurking and confusing posts against him. If I had more time to actually take a look at him before, I probably wouldn't have put him on my scumlist. There isn't enough evidence against him.

Just noticed some flawed reasoning. Active Lurking is an anti town action. I don't really see how lack of evidence = less scummy. If anything, it should make him look even more scummy.

Agree with this. I don't see how beefster would come to that conclusion after taking into account those reasons.

[Mr.Sandman]

responses in italics.
XS, could you do a little more than ask questions? I know you mean well by it, but it comes off as avoiding scumhunting to me. Maybe a vote will coax you into analysis.

Vote: XScorp

The hell is this? It's not like you've been the paragon of scum hunting here, bud.

Crono's recent posts are giving me a decent townish vibe, but Beefster's style has been crashing hard. I would rather see Beef try and actually hunt than vote ignorantly.

Without wishing to detract from your vote on beefster which I aslo think is quite warranted, where is this townie vibe in the last couple of chrono's posts coming from? I fail to detect it

unvote

that is all.

What? 

unvote, vote beefster

That makes no sense. Xscorpion's last post was a defense that good?

[Mr.Sandman]

Mr. Sandman, is there any particular reason why you suddenly left Chrono alone? You chastise Mr. Chaos for claiming that Chrono has begun to behave like town, yet you take the same action he does. And Chrono is also on the same wagon...you don't find this suspicious at all?

Beefster's latest move was ridiculous. At this stage, I'm now fairly happy that he is the best lynch for today. I still think Chrono is scummy and my scum read on him hasn't diminished any, however the scumminess coming from Chrono is overshadowed by beefster. I'm not chastising Mr Chaos. I'm asking exactly what in Chrono's last couple of posts are giving him a town vibe because I don't see it.

And no, both scum want other scum dead. I don't think it's unrealistic to think there is the possibility they could be on opposing scum teams.

[Mr.Sandman]

One thing about Chrono, anti-town at best, is the complete failure to respond to or even acknowledge the points myself or anyone else has brought up against him all game. I've used that tactic as scum before

[Mr.Sandman]

Beefster, I can't believe after all the attention you gained from it and ridiculousness of it, you've still completely ignored the fact that you failed to explain your unvote on scorpion.

What about Chronopie has made him town?

His last post before I unvoted gave me an oddly town vibe, while I kept noticing Beefster being generally unhelpful and pinging my scum radar quite a bit more. TL;DR I thought Beefster looked more scummy at that point.

That still doesn't say anything about what it is that looks town about Chrono.

[Mr.Sandman]

When I'm satisfied with the day's activities, if voting for beefster is the only way to ensure a lynch, then I suppose I'll vote for him. However, if Chaos ends up being scummier than him in the end, and I can get enough people supporting a lynch of him, then I think he is a reasonable lynch alternative.

Unless 7 people vote for a no lynch, we'll have a lynch no matter what happens, will we not?

Why are you saying the only reason you'll vote for beefster is to ensure a lynch, as if to suggest you don't find him particularly scummy but you'd vote him anyway to end the day?

[Mr.Sandman]

Ah, ok ha thanks for pointing that out. In a similar vein to your post then... at the moment, if that is put upon us, I would be happiest voting for Beefster first and as a second alternative, Chrono

[Mr.Sandman]

I unvoted because I was getting frustrated at how much I sucked at explaining myself. Just because I'm an easy target to attack doesn't mean I'm scum.

I'm afraid you're going to have to try and explain this one further to me. I don't see the connection. How does you not being able to explain things influence your read of another player/make you want unvote?

[Mr.Sandman]

lrn2read kthxbai.

Ironic coming from you, given your failure to answer questions as well

[Mr.Sandman]

I've answered that, although a bit implicitly. There is no connection. I felt hopeless and gave up by doing stupid things.

While I'm at L-1, I might as well claim. I claim Vanilla Townie.

So you still think scorpion's scum?

[Mr.Sandman]

Beefster has to be

asked

to scum hunt, says it all

Sorry about my inactivity. Exams, study, other games in more interesting phases (Such as Massclaim, my own lynch, etc.)

Given Beefster's flip in the other game he's in, and the similarity in playstyle, I'm going to:

Confirm Vote: Beefster

<-- If I had another vote to place, I'd ready the hammer.

In any case Beefster, it's claim time.

Don't worry, it's ok to be scummy if you're not really concentrating on this game? Is that what you want us to stay that?

Karma, I can't see any strong opinion from you on beefster. Just some neutralish comments. Are you leaning scum or town?  

[Mr.Sandman]

Firstly, I don't particularly like the hammer from Karma, given that he had given no previous indication as far as I can see, that he found beefster scummy. He'd been on chaos's case and only really made neutralish comments about beefster, suddenly, when asked his opinion, he drops the hammer.

My opinion of Chronopie hasn't changed any. I still think he's likely scum.

On Chaos, from day 1, the scummiest thing about Chaos was the sudden change of heart about Chrono for no apparent or yet explained reason (I would still like a proper explanation), even when prompted, onto beefster (following chrono's vote on beefster also). I'm not averse to a Chaos - Chrono scum team at the moment. I don't particularly like the way karma is pressing so hard for a Chaos lynch at the moment either, without supporting it with any reasoning. I actually agree with part of karma's reason yesterday for voting Chaos I'd like to hear what it is that's making him quite so certain.

[Mr.Sandman]

Meh. It's a strategy I thought I'd try this game.

But I have talked about other players, if you do notice.

You haven't. You've pretty much not suspected anyone other than Chaos, apart from your beefster hammer

[Mr.Sandman]

You've mentioned his name, yes, but you haven't said anything about him.

I think these are your two mentions of him.

ODDin + Chaos as scumbuddies. Discuss this possibilty.

Heh. XScorp knows who I am. No telling.

But there's no need for opinions on anyone else today. We need to lynch Chaos and that's that.

Still feeling ODDin + Chaos scumbuddy vibes, with ODDin knowing that he's going to have to bus eventually but keeping his distance for now.

Why's he scummy? Why do you think he could be a Chaos scum buddy? Do you really think people will be influenced by your opinion and vote for them just by you mentioning his name?

[Mr.Sandman]

vote karma

Your assumption that you'll still be alive tomorrow is a huge scum tell. I don't see any pro-town benefit in waiting a day before you come out with a case.

[Mr.Sandman]

Even more reason to suspect an ODDin + Chaos scumteam.

And I see what you're calling a slip on me, Sandman. But there's two things wrong with it:

1. It was a simple mistake. Hell, I don't know if I'll be alive tomorrow.
2. In a game with two scumteams, the scum can't assume they'll be alive tomorrow. So your point is invalid.

1. If you don't know if you'll be alive tomorrow or not, if you're town, why wouldn't you do the pro-town thing and put forward your case today? That part wasn't a mistake. You seem to genuinely not want to reveal your reasons about ODDin till tomorrow.

2. Not necessarily, I think it's all the more significant, given that there is the possibility that one or both scum team's have protective forces.

Okay, reread chaos, and I don't find him worthy of a vote.

Isn't it telling that all 3 confirmed dead townies had Chaos on their scumdar though?

I agree with this. Genuinely motivated scum hunting detected this, therefore it's likely more reliable than other suggestions and it shouldn't be written off.

[Mr.Sandman]

This is basically appeal to popularity. I have a brain of my own, thank you very much, and I don't think chaos is especially scummy, and thus I'm not intending to vote for him unless my opinion changes. (And logical fallacies, such as appeal to popularity, aren't what's going to change it.)

It is noted, however, that scott is still applying pressure trying to get people to vote for chaos (using logical fallacies, too), and it is also noted how mr sandman has joined this wonderful, helpful and pro-town trend. (Yes, that was sarcasm)

How is it not significant? It's not a case of woohoo let's all go and vote Chaos now, because in itself, it's not reason to vote him, but I don't think you can completely discredit the fact that 3 town players identified Chaos as a threat. Given that there are 4 scum remaining, there seems to me to be a high chance that there are 4 players who are not going to care particularly strongly who gets lynched, as long as it's not them or their scum buddy, therefore the 'scum-hunting' of 4 players is seriously undermined.

And Chrono's post pretty sums up how he has played so far.

[Mr.Sandman]

Ok, I do think Chaos is scummy for the his sudden reversal on Chrono for no reason, but I think Chrono is even scummier at the moment, and that if Chrono flipped scum, then it would make it more likely that Chaos was also. What do you think of Chrono?

I'm assuming if Chrono got prodded that easjo and Chaos did too, but if not,

mod: request prods on easjo and Chaos.

[Mr.Sandman]

Ok, I do think Chaos is scummy for the his sudden reversal on Chrono for no reason, but I think Chrono is even scummier at the moment, and that if Chrono flipped scum, then it would make it more likely that Chaos was also. What do you think of Chrono?

Neutral-leaning-scummy. He's been lurking since D1, but I get the impression he's just being lazy and not purposefully lurking.

I get the impression the whole 'I'm busier in other games so I can't give this one much time' and 'I forgot about this game' nonsense is just a convenient excuse.

[Mr.Sandman]

Why? Do you think they're linked on a scum team or just scummy in their own right?

[Mr.Sandman]

I'm here too

[Mr.Sandman]

vote Equinox

Just because karma was replaced, it doesn't take away from the fact that karma was scummy. I think it's up to equinox to prove that otherwise, not for give all replacements a clean slate and essentially, start again.

I'm not getting a particularly good feeling from Taz. I don't remember that player slot being overly scummy before but I don't see where all this reluctance is coming from. The vote and then unvote was ridiculous, especially given that he wants to be more 'reserved' this time round. If he hasn't finished reading the thread as he says, I don't see where this need to post his indecisions is coming from.

I remain suspicious of chrono and would support a lynch there also

[Mr.Sandman]

Equinox (2) XScorpion, Mr.Sandman
drmyshottyizsik (3) Scott Brosius, Hinduragi, Tazaro
(No vote) Chronopie, Scott Brosius, Equinox, ODDin, drmyshottyizsik
9 alive. 5 votes lynch.

Regarding the votes: I cannot explain Karma's actions, for I am not Karma. If you feel this slot is the correct lynch for the day, I will not object. What I ask is to give me a chance to at least post my impressions and pressure whomever I feel needs pressuring, and when I'm done collecting data, I'm fine with being lynched to give the rest of you the confidence to go on with the game. kthx

I don't like this at all. I understand the first sentence. Most of the rest seems illogical. If it will give you confidence to lynch me, then go ahead? That looks like an attempt to appear pro-town but misses the vital point, that the town don't actually want to lynch a townie, therefore it would be a much more townie thing to do if you defended yourself rather than giving yourself up for a lynch.

Oh, hey. I just realized something.

9 players -- 4 scum, 5 townies -- 5 to lynch.

One vote on a townie, and you'll have 4 people from both scum teams jumpin' on.

Excellent...

I'm not actually certain of this, as those 4 will go under fire tomorrow assuming town isn't decimated overnight. Still, it's something to think about.

Unless you are absolutely certain you are comfortable ending the game day right now, I suggest unvoting. If you're town, you want to hear me out; I know you do. If you're scum, well, stay there and wait for Animal Control to come pick you up. <3

You say noone's going to quick lynch... and then you ask people to unvote you in case they do. The chances of a quick lynch right now are limited.

Tazaro follow's up Hindaguri's suspicion of Chaos nicely, with that vote out of the blue, as pointed out by Equinox, ironically. Steals one argument from Hinduragi, and the other one about L-3 isn't even that scummy to me.

I look forward to seeing shotty's views when they eventually come and I would be up for putting more pressure on Chrono soon if he fails to get 'engaged' with the game soon.

[Mr.Sandman]

Just because scum is bussing other scum (because they feel that the "other scum" are necessary liabilities to target) doesn't mean that we shouldn't vote for the scum that is being bussed. I didn't talk about easjo when I was discussing the individual who was giving me a disturbing gut feeling (Karma) and the individual who was giving me intellectual suspicion (Mr. Chaos), easjo is more of a second rate suspect. But since Hinduragi replaced easjo and Hinduragi just made a case against Mr. Chaos, I think that easjo/Hinduragi being a suspect who is bussing Mr. Chaos is a real thing to ponder.

Did you come across any other reason to suspect Hinduragi on your reread other than his bussing?

[Mr.Sandman]

No, I think it's normal to keep you at L-3. I think everyone should vote for who they wish to vote for at the moment, providing it doesn't put someone in immediate danger of a lynch, and that will aid discussion. I don't think you're in danger of a lynch at the moment.

[Mr.Sandman]

And even then, if someone wants to put someone else in danger of a lynch, that will provide discussion in itself.

[Mr.Sandman]

Mr.Sandman: That was not the question I asked. I asked, was it normal for Tazaro to unvote Equinox out of some chivalrous intent and deny drmyshottyizsik that same benefit? Tazaro's vote would have put Equinox at L-3; Tazaro's vote put drmyshottyizsik at L-3. There's a double standard here.

XScorpion: I'm not done reading the thread. I have my suspects (ODDin and Mr. Chaos), but as it's based on an incomplete picture, I'd rather not vote. I'll still question however I feel is necessary, though.

Tazaro: I apologize if my questioning is irritating, but I am not singling you out specifically. I question where I feel I need to push for more.

Ah I misunderstood. No, it is a double standard. His unvote of you was ridiculous. I don't like the way he keeps presenting the option today as a straight choice between you or shotty either.

Why do you talk about yourself in the third person?

[Mr.Sandman]

Yusssss! ODDin, a genuine pleasure to work with you. I felt like we had a gameplan as scum for once. I genuinely thought scorpion was town right up until that last day.

[Mr.Sandman]

Yeah haha when I looked through on that last night, seeing scorpion bussing easjo did make me wonder

Just as it worked out, I didn't manage to post since before the doctor claim :-/ Worked to my advantage though

I would like to hear from dr why he claimed doctor...