Mini 414-Anime Mafia | GAME OVAH!

[Skruffs]

Shanba should get a cookie for not bussing his cohorts.
Too bad you can't eat cookies when you are swinging from a noose.

[Shanba]

SHanba, you are strawmanning me here.

Skruffs. How is that a strawman? It wasn't referring to an argument, but a statement. It cannot be a strawman: a strawman is the act of substituting someone's argument with a weaker one, and then knocking the weaker one down.

Scum did not want to lose their roleblocker (thrawn) MORE than they would would not want to lose a regular mafia member (Zu Faul) because Zu Faul is just an ordinary goon

Ok. I got this. I don't think it's particularly relevant, tbh: there was only a claimed cop left, who most of the town had proffessed belief in, so he wasn't going to be lynched (plus if he had been rbed, suspicion would have tripled on the claimed rber). In fact, the only thing scum would achieve by defending a doomed scumbuddy is putting themselves under suspicion. I'm not saying a scum wouldn't do that: every living scum is necessary, and WIFOM applies here as ever. But it's somewhat of a null tell here.

BUT WAIT! you say HOW WOULD SKRUFFS KNOW THAT ZU FAUL IS JUST A GOON AND NOT A GODFATHER? (I'm assuming that's what your fos is on)
Well, we know that Mert was a sane cop, based on his investigations that he claimed to have made. He got an innocnet on me so I am either a townie or a gofather, and he got a GUILTY on zu faul, which means he's a GOON or a miller.

I cannot see your thought process. I am trying to work it out. Is it more likely that you are a scum godfather who let out a freudian slip, or a townie who worked out that Zu Faul was more likely to be a godfather by a logical thought process? If the latter, why didn't he state his thought process, rather than letting slip that he thought Zu was a goon?

If you think that the mafia had two power roles (Role blocker, maybe cop or doctor?) than it's really unreasonable to think that therewould ALOS be a godfather as well as those two power roles, thus, you STILL have no reason to suspect me.

FOS : SHANBA

Bwuh? You fail to note one very important fact: if Zu isn't a goon, the whole argument is moot anyway. Which means this whole last section is moot. The reason I suspect you is because you seem to have inside knowledge that Zu is a goon, not that Zu is a power role.

Another thing. Have you ever played with me as scum? I assume not. In my games as scum, I have absolutely no qualms about bussing my scumbuddies. I refer you to Newbies 297 and 319.


Skruffs, I have news for you: you're no confirmed innocent. There is still the possibility that you're the godfather. The fact that I suspect you, or that I question your motives, doesn't make me scum. Wake up, smell the coffee.

[Skruffs]

Do you think Zu Faul isn't a goon?
Go on - keep defending him.

[Skruffs]

Skruffs. How is that a strawman? It wasn't referring to an argument, but a statement. It cannot be a strawman: a strawman is the act of substituting someone's argument with a weaker one, and then knocking the weaker one down.

I fairly agree with that rendition of it. Basically someone makes a point you don't want to deal with - or you think is too strong, so you find something about that point that you can bring to light which effectively draws attention from the main point itself in an attempt to distract town. OR, by proving that smaller point, the original point is ignored by town as the person becomes more suspicious.

Let's look at my post and how you responded to it.

I agree.
I am suspicious of those not eager to discuss.
Make sure to read yesterday a few times - townies - to get a good read on what everyone was trying to do.
I'm pretty suspicious of everyone who was trying to get Zu Faul lynched over Thrawn, now that we know Thrawn is a mafia roleblocker - and thus more important than a goon.

Wait, what? Zu Faul is a goon?

FoS Skruffs

My point was that town should read any attempts to divert town from the goof-up scum claim scum - which could be salvaged with enough work - thrawn, to the cop claim or to the claimed scum. I'll extend this point to give you another chance to respond to it. Scum had a chance with getting zu faul lynched instead of thrawn because if we had lynched zu faul we don't go to the next day with a known scum just waiting to be hanged. So taking that risk on thrawn worked to town's advantage immensely - and even though the cop was killed, his death condemned a second scum.

Your response was that I somehow knew that zu faul was a goon, and that this was a freudian slip. You didn't acknowledge any other part of my post.
so... yeah.

[Skruffs]

Things to do before Zu Faul is lynched :
A) Skim back and take note of everyone's opinions on UT's horrendous claim day one and who defended THAT.
B) Take note of who defended UT yesterday.
C) Take note of who defended Thrawn yesterday.
D) Take note of who's pushing for existence of Godfather.
E) Take note of who was early on AndrewS, Cubs wagon but not on Thrawns.
F) Take note of who attempted to discredit cop claim yesterday.
G) Look at who buddied up to townies shortly before those townies were nightkilled.

If all of those things are done, I'm sure someone will show up on at least half of them, and that person will be scum.
If we don't do that, I'm going to suggest town kills shanba tomorrow because scum would be stupid to hope they can get a godfather lynch on me when it would raise their own chances of being lynched to 50%.

[Shanba]

Do you think Zu Faul isn't a goon?
Go on - keep defending him.

^_o

This post is so wrong it's not even funny. But never mind.

[Shanba]

Skruffs. How is that a strawman? It wasn't referring to an argument, but a statement. It cannot be a strawman: a strawman is the act of substituting someone's argument with a weaker one, and then knocking the weaker one down.

I fairly agree with that rendition of it. Basically someone makes a point you don't want to deal with - or you think is too strong, so you find something about that point that you can bring to light which effectively draws attention from the main point itself in an attempt to distract town. OR, by proving that smaller point, the original point is ignored by town as the person becomes more suspicious.

Let's look at my post and how you responded to it.

Ah - I see what you mean now, and I concede the point. But I have now responded to that

I agree.
I am suspicious of those not eager to discuss.
Make sure to read yesterday a few times - townies - to get a good read on what everyone was trying to do.
I'm pretty suspicious of everyone who was trying to get Zu Faul lynched over Thrawn, now that we know Thrawn is a mafia roleblocker - and thus more important than a goon.

Wait, what? Zu Faul is a goon?

FoS Skruffs

My point was that town should read any attempts to divert town from the goof-up scum claim scum - which could be salvaged with enough work - thrawn, to the cop claim or to the claimed scum. I'll extend this point to give you another chance to respond to it. Scum had a chance with getting zu faul lynched instead of thrawn because if we had lynched zu faul we don't go to the next day with a known scum just waiting to be hanged. So taking that risk on thrawn worked to town's advantage immensely - and even though the cop was killed, his death condemned a second scum.

Hrmm... I don't think this holds water, tbh. For one, at the time Zu messed up, Mert hadn't claimed cop results. So that would have meant that trying to divert attention from thrawn to zu would have been diverting attention from the scum with a death sentence to the scum who looked fairly scummy.

Besides, that's not what you said originally: you said scum were trying to save thrawn because he had a power role.

Your response was that I somehow knew that zu faul was a goon, and that this was a freudian slip. You didn't acknowledge any other part of my post.
so... yeah.

Again, I concede the point.

I have a question for you Skruffs. If I am scum, and your theory holds, how do you justify my jump on and off the thrawn wagon when you first started it? Incredibly sloppy play? Bad distancing? I just want an aswer, so I can understant your thought process a little better.

[Skruffs]

I don't think for sure that you *are* scum, Shanba. I *know* that Zu Faul is, though. I'd like to figure out who the last one is by the end of the day here, and I think anything said today will have to be very carefully worded - I'm hoping the slip ups already happened some time in the past. People who pushed for UT not to explain his role after pretty much every other role died.
I am honestly torn between the two of you - SV, if she is scum, is playing under the radar (As usual).

[Shanba]

Ok. What do you think of Yamahako, then, specifically his play yesterday? I note he's not even on your shortlist?

[Skruffs]

err?
There's three players that will be around tommorrow - you, Yama, and SV. You and YAMA are tied for scumminess, and if one of you are scum, you'll probably be vying for SV's vote.

Yama knows I have been on his case the Entire Game. I didn't like how he buddied up to Cuban Smoker - while accusing me of defending Cubs. Chubs turned out to be the SK, Cuban smoker turned out to be a regular townie - who was night killed. So I'm suspicious that maybe Yama nk'd Cuban smoker to try and help himself look more townie. That he pointed to dead town to try and clear himself (faiarly sure he did it) would only strengthen that argument. As it is, it's just speculation though and not helpful. HE was also gung ho about voting cubs (non-mafia scum) and not so much about lynching thrawn (mafia scum). I'll have to reread to see how he reacted to zu faul being caught too.

Quick skim through of Thrawn's posts:
Targets me (twice) day one, jaack, andrews, cubansmoker, hemisphere.
Gets into mock fight with simenon. (Not really a fight)
Jokingly replies to Abbott (who replaced simenon) with magic card? Odd.

day two, more general fussing over almost entirely all now-dead players. He votes UT, then moves it to Yama - but asks for others to build a case for him.

Abbott said he didn't caare if UT was town, he was useless - this was pretty much the first mention of UT he's made in his part in the game. HE ignored thrawn and UT the entire first day, focussing solely on dead players and me adn SV. Just like thrawn did with him. UT/OTU/Zu Faul were similar, of course.

Right after sayign he didn't care if he's town, and wants him lynched, he adds on that he thinks he's scum. But.. no reason why. BAcktracking? WHat is that? THen he drops the vote and puts it on thrawn, followed by guidance about how he almost screwed up 'as town'.


zu faul had no problem bussing thrawn but only reacted to shanba and mert, otherwise. Not yama. *grr*

more later. COMMENTS?

[Yamahako]

Shanba/Abbott/Simenon:

Vote thrawn1020 I really don't like his fishing for Jack's character or his possible post restriction. It seems like he's trying to get a little too much out in the open that I would care for.

Thrawn didn't fish for Jack's character. Distancing?

Well, I don't understand your argument. We've agreed that Jack doesn't have a post restriction a little while ago, and it seemed pretty likely that he had something or other until he broke the pattern. I don't know where cuban smoker has his vote currently, but it certainly makes sense to support a lynch on Skruffs without voting when not everyone was in the game.

Whether or not you like the fishing, I didn't receive anything for it, and I backed off once it was clear he didn't have one. Now that everyone is here and there is no scent of a post restriction, and I've apologized, I'm not sure why you decided to vote me over the schizophrenic postings that have been going around.

Unvote, Vote: Simenon

Same thing?

No, Thrawn!

Glitzy titles and an armada are no reason to join the dark side.

Unvote,Vote:Thrawn
For falling from the right.


Err... I mean. He wanted a bandwagon. Let's give it to him.
I seriously have nothing in this game. I don't know what to say.... so.... uh....
BLOOD!

unFoS

here's some more...

Thrawn: I can't read him currently. I'm a touch suspicious of his tendency to quickly vote and unvote a player and the way he's been a touch wagony.

There's some more ties between Shanba and Thrawn.

No... I don't believe that. All other characters have ben characters from a show, rather than shows themselves.

Distancing again from a mafia member (this one is really weak though) - it was in response to Zu_FAul claiming Pokemon.

Townies hash up their claims too. Admittedly I've never seen one claim to target a dead person, but it's not beyond possible. Also, Zu's claim is hardly spotless either, after his predecessor hinted power.

Defending Thrawn's claim. This is huge IMO.

Then Shanba starts moving toward Bussing Zu_Faul over Thrawn... We now know that Thrawn was the RBer of the group - if ZF died, Thrawn could have RBed the cop and we'd have been in a worse situation today.

SpectrumVoid hasn't said very much this game - I need to read her posts in isolation. Skruffs, you still seem scummy to me, but unless you're the Godfather you're pretty much cleared. I do want to point out one thing though:

Ha!
Yamahoko's Voting/Fossing History:
vote : jack (for vote hopping)
vote : skruffs
Vote : cubsfan
fos : andrews
vote : hemisphere
vote : cubsfan
-----------
Cubansmoker's voting/fossing history:
vote : ubertimmy (for not posting)
fos skruffs
vote : cubsfan
vote : hemisphere
vote : jack
vote : cubsfan

Cubansmoker has never refferred(sp?) to Yamahoko before, and Yamahoko's only reference to CUbansmoker was directing him to wikipedia.org so he could research some fake roles.
Okay maybe not for the last part, but still... I think they're similar mentality of following each other's leads without actually talking to each other is worth considering.

If you check this again, by the way, it's Cuban Smoker that always followed my lead - not the other way around. I had no way of controlling that, and Cuban Smoker is confirmed town.

And I have never once pointed back to Cuban Smoker and said anything remotely like his being town proves I'm town.

I'm out of time at the moment - I'll post more later.

[Skruffs]

good post - thanks.
SV is way under the radar - I need to look for ties to her, too.

[Skruffs]

VOTE COUNT PLEASE

[Shanba]

Shanba/Abbott/Simenon:

Vote thrawn1020 I really don't like his fishing for Jack's character or his possible post restriction. It seems like he's trying to get a little too much out in the open that I would care for.

Thrawn didn't fish for Jack's character. Distancing?

There's very little I can say about this. I didn't say it,I wasn't there at the time. However, I would like to know why you think this is distancing?

Well, I don't understand your argument. We've agreed that Jack doesn't have a post restriction a little while ago, and it seemed pretty likely that he had something or other until he broke the pattern. I don't know where cuban smoker has his vote currently, but it certainly makes sense to support a lynch on Skruffs without voting when not everyone was in the game.

Whether or not you like the fishing, I didn't receive anything for it, and I backed off once it was clear he didn't have one. Now that everyone is here and there is no scent of a post restriction, and I've apologized, I'm not sure why you decided to vote me over the schizophrenic postings that have been going around.

Unvote, Vote: Simenon

Same thing?

See above.

No, Thrawn!

Glitzy titles and an armada are no reason to join the dark side.

Unvote,Vote:Thrawn
For falling from the right.


Err... I mean. He wanted a bandwagon. Let's give it to him.
I seriously have nothing in this game. I don't know what to say.... so.... uh....
BLOOD!

unFoS

here's some more...

See above, again. Although I admit, this post by Abott is scummy all on it's own.

Thrawn: I can't read him currently. I'm a touch suspicious of his tendency to quickly vote and unvote a player and the way he's been a touch wagony.

There's some more ties between Shanba and Thrawn.

Mmm. At the time I was more worried about other players than thrawn. I think I was most suspicious of cuban smoker and sv at the time. The comment on thrawn was more of an afterthought oh well I guess I'd better look over as many people as possible.

No... I don't believe that. All other characters have ben characters from a show, rather than shows themselves.

Distancing again from a mafia member (this one is really weak though) - it was in response to Zu_FAul claiming Pokemon.

Meh. I wnted Zu Faul lynched. I've made this clear.

Townies hash up their claims too. Admittedly I've never seen one claim to target a dead person, but it's not beyond possible. Also, Zu's claim is hardly spotless either, after his predecessor hinted power.

Defending Thrawn's claim. This is huge IMO.

Then Shanba starts moving toward Bussing Zu_Faul over Thrawn... We now know that Thrawn was the RBer of the group - if ZF died, Thrawn could have RBed the cop and we'd have been in a worse situation today.
[/quote] Alright. viewtopic.php?t=4835&postdays=0&postord ... &start=900. This was what was going through my head when I made that post. Also, Zu_faul, my top suspect, had just put the third vote on thrawn (putting him at lynch-1). The two things combined gave me a sudden case of cold feet: I was extremely worried that Zu was trying to quicklynch him. My posting that day reflects this.

Also, I was partially right. He didn't mess up his claim because it was a fakeclaim. But that's neither here nor there.

Anyway, I contest your assumption that if the rber was alive we would be in a worse position. Say we lynched zu faul and someone, say, Skruffs, died at night and mert was rbed. For one, that would naturally place even more suspicion on the claimed rber. For another, I don't think anyone was seriously considering lynching Mert anyway (except possibly you). Or if instead, Mert had been nked: Thrawn's horrible claim isn't going to go away. Maybe a tiny benefit in that thrawn might still survive. But I don't see how that's worth getting my hands dirty protecting him.

SpectrumVoid hasn't said very much this game - I need to read her posts in isolation. Skruffs, you still seem scummy to me, but unless you're the Godfather you're pretty much cleared.

Hrm... at this point, actually, I'm more suspicious of Skruffs than I am of SV. I remember being suspicious of her weak attacks and seeming to follow the crowd, but I've since seen other games with her in and gotten exactly the same feeling where she's town.

[Shanba]

good post - thanks.

Because he agrees with you? Urgh.

[Skruffs]

Good post SHanba, thanks.
I like posts with more than one sentence in them - paragraphs rock.

After Mert clailmed i had no intentions of lynchign him - however, i did say that we should let the mafi kill him before we go after his claimed scum. it was lylo - the only way he could prove himself was by dying, whereas thrawn essenetially claimed scum.

SAme thing goes with me - if you guys are suspicious that i am a godfather, waiwt until tommorrow. I should, if scum are smart, be dead. They didni't take any risks last night by killing me and leaving mert - but perhaps they would have if they thought they could force a mislynch out of it.

[Yamahako]

Shanba, I know you can't explain the actions of your previous incarnations, I'm just pointing out to other people signs that point to scum behavior.

Many people tend to put votes on their scum buddies here and there as a way of distancing themselves from their partners - so they can point back and say "Ah ha! see I was suspicious of that person all along!" That's why I was pointing that out. Because while you did not necessarily use those tactics yourself, two of the people that were you in the past did. I can't ask you to defend those points - but they are still valid.

I just wanted to point that out, I'm going to do a more thorough analysis of SV and Skruffs later today.

[IH]

VOTECOUNT OF STATICITY

Zu Faul -1- (Shanba)

[spectrumvoid]

Can anyone provide a game reference to a mini with a mafia roleblocker and a godfather? (this is for my own knowledge mainly, I believe Skruffs is innocent.)

Things that I feel are important: Shanba defending thrawn's claim. However, I also like the way Shanba responded to Skruffs 756 (I'm referring to the 2nd para.)

I'm going to apply some WIFOM here. If Shanba was scum, why would she go after Skruffs? (who I've already said I thought was pro-town) It would be easier for Shanba to gun for yamahako instead.

[Shanba]

Can anyone provide a game reference to a mini with a mafia roleblocker and a godfather? (this is for my own knowledge mainly, I believe Skruffs is innocent.)

Things that I feel are important: Shanba defending thrawn's claim. However, I also like the way Shanba responded to Skruffs 756 (I'm referring to the 2nd para.)

I'm going to apply some WIFOM here. If Shanba was scum, why would she go after Skruffs? (who I've already said I thought was pro-town) It would be easier for Shanba to gun for yamahako instead.

Eh. That actually doesn't apply, as I've stated that Yama is my top suspect. Also, I'm male.

[Skruffs]

shanba got name-pwned again.
SV - in my own mini I had a role blocker and a goon - and they won. No cops though.
I think it's kind of fair to assume that in a game with a cop there is probably a godfather, and with a doc, switcher, vig, cop, and sk to compete with, half of the town being a power role of one sort or another helps me think that mafia may have a godfather that is either cop immune or kill immune.

I'm really looking forward to Yamahako's person by person response.

Zu Faul - how does that noose feel - is it comfy?

[zu_Faul]

You don't even think that he could be random, paranoid or insane? You're way too optimistic my firends. I'm not mafia and I know it. I'd say one of Shanba/Skruffs is scum (Skruffs could very well be if Mert was random/insane).

[Shanba]

No. That would require a Skruffs/Shanba scum group (after today's voting) which I know is impossible.

[Skruffs]

That makes an incredible amount of sense.
Does anyone else think that maybe Mert was insane?

[Shanba]

Who are you responding to there?