InuYasha Mafia (Game Over)

[AngryIcerink]

Hello we did it.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

All our posts as Iecerint are listed below for future iso adventures:

I looked at at the player list and immediately wanted to vote that monstrosity, but now it feels silly.

VOTE: ActionDan

Guys let's all vote for ActionDan please thanks.

I know you are scum iece but help me pl Abomination. You'll be furthering your wincon!

Lost interest at the 4th vote or whatever.

I know you are scum iece but help me pl Abomination. You'll be furthering your wincon!

Lost interest at the 4th vote or whatever.

you only had 3 votes on him.

and now 5

Who's counting?

Well. You, I guess.

Tbf I suspect that basically all the players in Abomination will flake out and we will deal with at most 2 people in that slot.

I am pretty sketched out by people who thought that reading difficulties would be a legit reason to vote them tbf.

lolsuchhydra is a reason that makes sense to me tho.

Unvote; Vote: kdowns

For some reason that post makes me want to lynch Clyton a little.

No idea why, really, because I was curious about the same thing as him.

Well that is a dumb reason.

I will let you have scummy reasons for wanting to lynch Abomination though because it's you.

XOFELF.

CHAMPION OF JUSTICE.

Majiffy can i be town?

I think you are town so that is why I am asking you.

When I was thinking about Abomination for just a second, it occurred to me that most of them would probably flake or feel like they could rely on hydra-mates to do all the work. This has always been my experience in playing with hydras that start with more than 2 people.

Because that was my take with very minimal introspection, I decided that the particular "let's lynch this due to reading being hard" people were for one reason or another not caring to think about things very carefully (especially in a game that already has a million hydra).

Katsuki is probtown; policy lynches are bad.

-B_E

Whoa, whoa whoa.

Kasuki, you come in here, make 24 posts of ABSOLUTELY FLUFFY NONSENSE over the span of two pages...and WE need to be lynched? Bullshit.

Vote: Kasuki

Good lord, please at least make an effort.

Bulbathing's post has dichotomies that don't make sense to me.

Dan is town unless Katsuki is scum.

I don't like TSO except for him questioning all that softclaiming.

Has mastin/always done

anything

worthwhile yet?

(this is another head of this hydra checking in )

~MTD

The fact that this is the first post of a hydra head makes me uncomfortable. I think if I were town in a hydra like this I would lurk the fuck out as long as someone else was doing things. If I were scum I would feel like I had to post.

Abom can you explain why BE left? His last few posts seemed town.

Erm, possible exception is if BE was the one carrying the entire hydra and he left.

Oh shit you're right. I am mixing Majiffy-posts up with someone else because I thought he was pushing for an Abomination lynch. I have a feeling there's some kind of avatar fusion happening in my head. Rereading some stuff.

Town

I thought Always was town until I remembered that it was Mastin.

I'm confused by the 'lolsuchhydra' bit though. I can't actually tell if he supports a policy lynch or not >.<

I obviously do not support it; however, if someone wants to lynch the hydra just because it is funny to run up the person with 5-8 members or whatever on page 1, I think that's a pretty standard town reaction. I think that because I thought it.

On the other hand, I think that the "rational" reasons people gave for wanting to lynch the hydra and bullshit. I think they are bullshit because I considered them and decided that they were bullshit with very very minimal effort.

I understand Actiondan's Iec vote more than Iec's Actiondan vote.

Ongoing.

Iec's post 85 looks like trying too hard to appeal to an influential player (asking Majiffy if he can be town).

lol

@ mastin xofelf's post about being nervous because a previous game ended badly was kind of scummy I guess, but I explained it away to myself using logic that I can't remember.

Caught up now.

Scumhunting.

Wow, Mastin is bad at this game.

@ Nati or whoever that was -- I feel like anyone who knows how I play at all should think that I am town right now. I guess this isn't necessarily really true of Mastin, whom I think I've played with exactly once and it was 2009, but I find her combination of vacuity, pomposity, and verbosity grating.

However, people's reads on me have been pretty RNG early game for the last several games I've played I think. There's usually a burst of anti-Iec sentiment sometime either D1 or D2 that never goes anywhere. So I'm trying not to overinterpret it.

I don't play games as frequently anymore, and I think the meta has shifted enough that there's not much correlation between how I perceive how I'm playing in a particular game and how I'm perceived.

I don't have any read on Clyton at all, really, but I figure he's probably town if that many people are so sure of it.

OK.

Don't kill Majiffy. :[

Also usually when lots of people think someone is town with relatively little controversy ala Clyton that person is usually town. Scum feel awkward dethroning people, especially when the throning is caused by such ambiguous things.

This is also why Dan is probably town unless Katsuki flips scum (i.e., he said he didn't find Katsuki particularly town after 3-4 people called him soso town after his activity burst).

I think Klick is town too.

Sakura Hana literally has yet to post, so I dunno what's up with that one.

Scum can do cheap distancing by voicing vague suspicion or uncertainty on a well-liked scumfriend without intent to follow-up on it. This is the cheapest, freest way to distance ever.

This is why Dan's behavior is no longer town if Katsuki flips scum, as his behavior could be an instance of that if Katsuki flips scum.

Tbh I might have a different take on the dan stuff if I wasn't also kinda not sure what was up with the Katsuki stuff as everyone started to praise it.

@ Nero -- I'm replying to this:

I don't agree with this. First, ad populism is stupid and is the 'cause of 95% of all mislynchs. Second, if Clyton is scum but getting town read...why would scum try to dethrone him?

Though I have to admit that in my head I was responding to Mastin having typed that, but I now see that it was indeed you. I brought up the Dan situation because I know that Mastin didn't really understand my thoughts on Dan earlier, so it would mean something to her and would provide extra context for how this assumption on my part has colored my reads on various players.

I am so bad at tense good lord.

I'm not townreading Katsuki at all. That is part of the point of all of it.

Other scumreads are MDT, Beast, and Venmar. I think at least one of AD/Mhork is likely scum. I also think there is at least 1 scum on the Abomination wagon.

-Bulba

Hi Bulba, this is what I was referring to ^

When I read this i was like wtf where does this AD/Mhork foolishness come from. Sounds made-up.

As for my own dichotomies, I unpack them later when Mastin doesn't understand anything and Nero thinks I am wrong but that's the way love goes.

By the way my slot may transition into a hydra with AngryPidgeon.

We need to choose a name first.

@ Bulba OK. I was thrown off because you first listed MDT/Beast/Venmar in one set and then listed AD/Mhork in a separate set. I do remember the multiscum discussion, though it doesn't really follow that one of them is scum AFAICT, so that is why that didn't occur to me.

Iecerint

, I feel you're being passive aggressive towards me (reading me as scum passively). Why?

I am not reading you as scum, so this is a mistaken impression on your part.

My comment about your take on Abomination being scummy but it being OK meant that I did not think it was scummy specifically coming from you.

Egg is town. No need to discredit the wagon on me otherwise.

Iecerint

, I feel you're being passive aggressive towards me (reading me as scum passively). Why?

I am not reading you as scum, so this is a mistaken impression on your part.

My comment about your take on Abomination being scummy but it being OK meant that I did not think it was scummy specifically coming from you.

Oh yeah okay that makes sense, it's just that for some reason I thought you said Mastin was bad at this game for calling me town.

No, I said Mastin was bad at the game after calling me scum after my series of catch-up posts.

Way too narcissistic to pay much attention to any other aspect of Mastin's posts given that tbh.

[AngryIcerink]

Hey mastin. So word on the street is that you are misreading Iecerint. Lets talk about that; because now you are misreading someone who won't handwave you away in frustration. Spill it. You've got like 2 posts to convince me you aren't multi-scum this game (I am correct in stating this is multiball?; for some reason I think it is but UI havent really read).

[AngryIcerink]

AP why don't you care if I'm voting you?

I hold mastin to some amount of BoP. I haven't read much of anything except some very vague description of what happened from Iec.

[AngryIcerink]

I would like it to be understood that I did not endorse this tomfoolery.

I understand he wants to make up for missed time.

Carry on.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

That should do temporarily.

[AngryIcerink]

You try pinning your scummy-ass BoP on me, I'm speedlynching you.

I just had to be sure of your alignment, mastin, chill. I recalled thinking you were townish for that one opening post and Iec thinks you are too (I think? lol). This response is a little soothing. Apparently I came across differently than I intended to. I told Iec that I thought you were town as I replaced in and he accused me of lying in the post I made because I was hinting you were scum. Not my intention, was merely trying to interject myself into the game as fast as possible . Also I was apparently mistaken that this game is openly multifaction, there was just a post from someone saying it probably was.

And, the slot became far more dangerous if scum with the addition of AP.

<3. I do swear I'm not scum though. Has all this been Natirasha or fferyllt? Actually, I guess I don't care; at first I thought that your recent posts looked town if from ffery, but I think its just town either way in all probability. I also sort of like Y&B on this page.. I need to revisit that a little, but I do like both people involved in the mastin debate. I see passion, I see hard-headedness, I see decent points being made on both sides that would be a bit ... pedantic? (not exactly, but something along those lines) for scum to be making.

TSO is not someone I think is town after reading the last page. Not scum either. Well ok, maybe a little bit. Everything he is doing is sidelining right now.

P-edit: Dan you are gonna have to be super obvtown for me if you wanna play that card btw.

[AngryIcerink]

I just read P1-6. I'll give some feelings about my read through every few pages as I catch up (wont be all at once here).

Spoiler:

Townish:
Dan - I liked his soft claim, doesn't feel overly direct, appears to be playing the game. Doesnt feel like L4D.
mastin - soft claim, appears vested in scum hunting. My ONLY concern here is that this game being multifaction makes my read on mastin way less valid than it would otherwise be. Buuuut I think shes town nonetheless. I do want her to explain why she wanted scum in this game though.
Majiffy - Feels open, posts don't feel over explained, doesn't radiate defensiveness or guilt.
---GAP---
Katsuki - Well then. I'm not exactly sure what to say about that entrance. Is activity a scumtell for you? . Seriously though, it feels a little town to me.
Venmar - Eh.
Clyton - Mechanical as always, but I he feels different than what I've seen of him before and I've only seen him as scum before. Kinda bad description, but its there. Weak read.
Mhork - hesitant to list him as something other than null, but I did like his post where he voted Dan. Well, not really. It read really bad, but bad in a town way. So weak read.

------
Scummy (weak reads, but eh): Klick, Xofelf, NeroCain, TSO, Kdowns

[AngryIcerink]

I just read Shos's ISO. I don't really want to lynch him right now. I mean I guess I wouldn't be so violently opposed that I start convulsing everywhere, buuuuut still lets not lynch him and pretend we did.

[AngryIcerink]

I have no idea? I'm probably going to wait until after I've read everything before I try and figure out who we want to compromise on.

[AngryIcerink]

I have no idea? I'm probably going to wait until after I've read everything

before I try and figure out who we want to compromise on

.

The bolded looks like you've made up your mind that you are going to disagree with Iec's reads. Predetermined reads before reading the thread aren't something town has.

AP and I have already discussed a lot of people and he's done isos and such. It's not true that he hasn't read the thread. I think he's also at least skimmed the first 10 pages or so.

So far our views are actually pretty similar from what I can tell, so I don't know what disagreement his compromise language is intended to reference. I suppose I'll find out soon.

Our main difference is that we have different approaches to the game. That's the only thing where syncing might be valuable from my POV. But I suppose I'll get used to it either way.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

^ Oh, I just logged over to comment on that Egg quote.

That is pretty contrived there, Egg. I don't have any jarring disagreements with Iec that I can think of, but the word compromise still is an appropriate word for this situation. "Compromise" does not necessarily imply that there are strong divergences in opinion, rather...that its a joint effort to turn multiple frames of mind into a unified action.

[AngryIcerink]

Point of regard, can we nip the "No U don't have any content!!" posts in the bud? Seriously it doesn't really lead anywhere relevant. Lurkers will lurk. Some are town. Some aren't. Telling them they are lurking won't make them post more.
P-edit: I might support Nero after I get caught up and depending. What is mastin's read on Nero?

[AngryIcerink]

I find it very strange that AP posting scummy things makes people think we are town.

Oh brave new world that has such people in it.

AP thought Nero's page 2 stuff was pretty unnatural almost immediately upon replacing in, particularly re: Abomination. I found his list ala what abom just mentioned above had funky people on it, but I have some irrational affection for Nero, so I don't like lynching him til later. /iecnerofeelings

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

I find it very strange that AP posting scummy things makes people think we are town.

Oh brave new world that has such people in it.

Who are you referring to?

Venmar, mastin, your slot, off the top of my head.

[AngryIcerink]

Someone talk me through where I should be looking.

Because I'm looking at Rhaego.

You are on the right track as-is.

[AngryIcerink]

Spoiler: I read through P17, playing some league with BRO wrap this up in a bit. Random quotes that I respondd to, got a little lazy at points.

On a more serious note, I do think shos is scum.

- b -

This could be mafia. I don't like the overly explicit switch from wanting to PL Abomination to expressing scumread seriously without explanation. Reads overly cautious and self aware.

Also that little exchange with TSO afterwards made me vomit a little bit (but mostly the TSO part of that).

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p5979406
; ya this doesn't look town like Majiffy said it does. The only town thing I see here is jumpiness of vote despite being a hydra. The reasoning for the vote is rather scummy imo.

Mastin you are vastly overestimating my play. Everyone knows I'm shit town.

Scum claim.

Venmar, I might explain it to you later, but for the time being, trust me; beast townslipped hardcore and thus, is town.

No he didn't.

I'm not seeing the obvtownness this game.

Get new glasses.

Wow, Mastin is bad at this game.

Ya that reads list was on the atrocious side of things just now.

Mastin you usually at least try to explain your reads.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Wait, you are serious. Oh man thats embarrassing.

[AngryIcerink]

'cause its a 28 player game so there's going to be a butt load of scum and there's no traction for lynching abomination but just LOOK at Shos and he's really doing nothing. Why do you have a town read on him?

Nero, posting scummy things and then having people get town reads on you only works if you are us.

Unvote; Vote: Nero Cain

I'm going to assume that AP would be fine with this for right now. We may alter things after we touch base.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

You think we're scum? Or do you mean someone else?

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

lol ok.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Spoiler: Random responses, finished catchup

Having caught up, I'm definitely seeing some town in MDT, Mhork, and Abom.

Eesh.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5984907
Ya this is scum.

----

So, mastin's got a read which no-one agrees with.
I ask her to explain it.
She flat-out says no.

On a more serious note, I do think shos is scum.

- b -

why?

Because *smooch* :*

- b -

good enough for me.

Wow TSO, these double standards are pretty atrocious. Mastin doesn't explain a read and you call her out. Y&B doesn't and they are cool people? Are you even pretending to have a town win con?

If shos flips scum, mastin is his partner.
Reasoning: Soft defense of shos, attempting to dispel the wagon as a third-party. Now take into account that shos "claimed" sesshomaru. This is obviously fake, probably to bait and counterclaim the real sesshomaru, or to seem town to fakeclaim a power role in future. No real sesshomaru, considering the flavor+power involved, would ever claim. This lets me infer that shos is a scum PR. Mastin's defense makes a ton of sense.

I have no words for how this post makes me feel.

It's probably a good thing that I seem different to N's AAA.

Subtly implying hes town. Scum.

[AngryIcerink]

Town: AI, mastin2, ActionDan, Majiffy, Molla
Meh-Town: Sven, shos, Rhaego, Katsuki, Egg, Prohawk, geists, Clyton (kind of)
---
AP's initial hazardous and unrefined venture into scum..
Scumheap: Nero Cain, Xofelf, Klick, Abomination, Venmar, TSO, Mhork, MDT, Mist

[AngryIcerink]

"Subtly implying you're Town, scum!" is terrible. I can quote at least 10 examples where I've seen town say it.

Yes, nothing is a surefire lolomng scumtell. Town is capable of doing things that scum often do. In this case, I think it was scummy because you went out of your way to bring up Another Awesome Alliteration Adventure for no real reason. Instead of trying to figure out what Egg was seeing about you that felt weird, you throw up some scum meta and imply that you must be town here because of Egg's feeling. Which makes it scummy. Also your defense that town is also capable of saying this is scummy and kind of stripping the context away and focusing on defending the case on you.

\o/
~Kazooie

[AngryIcerink]

overreaction....

The only overreaction I see is you ignoring SG's main point (it was odd that you didn't acknowledge Abom when Iec asked you who was scum on your wagon) and misrepping the rest of her post by use of the word 'impossible'.

[AngryIcerink]

I'm fully aware that you clarified that on the followup.

[AngryIcerink]

"lol nero is such a scumbuttt"

~ texts from AP

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

In the post I quoted you literally said that you unvoted Abomination because you couldn't get him lynched and you switched to shos because you were lurker hunting.

Tbf I more voted you because of the stuff AP and I had already discussed (your early push for Abomination, questionable reads and pushes in general), but that post was so egregious that I couldn't help myself. (I had been in favor of holding off on any push on you today before that on the belief that you would be hard to lynch and that you were such a cutie, so I figured he wouldn't object if I went ahead and voted you.)

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

And I was asking if you were talking about me as the "scum who loves trying to mislynch you." I didn't think you had a scumread on us at the time particularly, so I was even more O.o at the quick turnaround. But your iso does have bits where you had suspected me, so I suppose they just didn't stand out to me, probably because you engaged with me throughout the early game, which come to think of it is relatively consistent with you being scum and knowing my alignment (vs. actually thinking I am scum).

[AngryIcerink]

Like, it's true that I didn't explicitly say ON THE WAGON, but it stands to reason that when someone is upset about PEOPLE TRYINA LYNCH ME those lynchin-people are probably on the wagon. It is a pretty basic inference.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

That is literally what you said. You are embarrassed scum or have extremely poor language skills.

'cause its a 28 player game so there's going to be a butt load of scum and there's no traction for lynching abomination but just LOOK at Shos and he's really doing nothing. Why do you have a town read on him?

1. Your stated rationale for no longer voted for Abomination is that there's "no traction" for lynching him -- nevermind that that in no way makes him more likely to be town.

2. Your emotional appeal to lynching Shos is that Shos has "really do[ne] nothing" and OMG YOU MUST HAVE A TOWN READ ON HIM IF YOU DONT' WANT TO LYNCH THIS DO-NOTHINGER [AKA LURKER]

I mean I [departing from AP, who was more meh] had more of a scumread on Shos anyway and I found this bad.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Other people can judge whether AP really "blatantly misrepresented" you. I requoted everything.

You are correct that sometimes it is OK to not vote a scumread simply because they are unlikely to be lynched. This is why I didn't really want to push you, after all. You are also correct that sometimes scum can active-lurk, though that isn't actually what you accused shos of, even if that was your intent. Though even if you had done that/did intend to do that, it reads like you're indicating behaviors rather than alignments. Like, THIS MAN VIOLATED THE LAWS OF PLAYING MAFIA GOOD. LET'S LYNCH HIM! vs. LET'S LYNCH THIS PERSON WHO IS SCUM DUE TO X.

I had/have scummy feelings from Shos because I've only played one game with him before, and IIRC he was scum and pretty similar to this. I don't remember the game, though; I only remember because I recognize his avatar. Nice deflection. :p

I'm wary of voting/lynching shos mainly because his wagon was disproportionately easy.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

You are scummy for indicating "basically doing nothing" as the reason for voting him. That is a scummy reason to select a target to vote (or at best a very poor way to express yourself). Full stop.

Your decision to recontextualize this as active lurker hunting -- subsequent to taking exception to being called a lurker hunter, which makes me pretty skeptical that your original reasoning was as you now claim -- is just that.

I think town Nero or town anyone would have a different reaction to this kind of pressure. You would still take exception to being scrutinized like any normal person, but you would also acknowledge that your language is absolutely inviting an interpretation at odds with how you're claiming you're intending it.

I have already indicated that the difference between Shos and others today is that Shos's wagon was very low-resistance, which is correlated with a town alignment. You know -- basically, the opposite of the reason you unvoted Abomination. EDIT: You even explicitly indicate that you understand the difference. Please attempt to deflect to Shos more, btw.

PS: Please never say "multiball" ever again good lord. (Yes, I'm aware that AP used it earlier.) But it doesn't really change things if present, as there would still be half as many scum opposed to scum.

lol @ "yelling and screaming"

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

ActionDan claimed his role PM implied the game was multiscum. Mhork subsequently argued that this made ActionDan scum. Then Bulba said at least one of them was scum.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

I think you're voting for shos because you think he is mislynch bait based upon how you responded when you were asked about it. That's what I find scummy.

OK @ the second/third. It sounds like you think that scum are different from townies in that they vote for scum more than town do, which I find to be a little bit bogus! But OK!

Contrary to how you characterized it, the Abomination wagon actually had plenty of traction up until several pages in. By then I had a little bit of a town read on Abomination already, due in part to the number of sketchy people pushing his wagon. But I know AP has a scum read on Abomination for some reason, I think because he thinks your interaction with him on page 2 was suggestive of early distancing (i.e., because the wagon was so dumb that it would obviously dissipate). But I think it's on the unlikely case and not worth considering until several days from now.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

1. I am showing the scumNero interpretation of your words to make my perspective as clear as possible, though, since you feigned not being able to understand why I found it scummy in your previous post. It goes without saying that I think the scumNero interpretation is valid.

2. You attempted to argue that because the Abomination wagon had poor traction, by my logic, he would be more likely to be scum. (Again, a super curious deflection, and an irrelevant one, as lack of consistency, even if applicable here, isn't a scumtell, blahblah etc.) My response explained why his wagon was different -- there was great traction that dissipated, which is very different from the converse of Shos's wagon.

3. I explained why I didn't vote for Abomination at the start in literally my very first post in this game. It's basically the same reason as I've just articulated above.

4. I already addressed the Shos thing multiple times and I will not repeat myself. Please rephrase the question if I am somehow answering a different one.

5. @789, for the first sentence, thinking someone is town has nothing to do with mislynches. So that part sentence is kind of non sequitur and irrelevant to what I am talking about. For the second sentence, that is the perfect time to distance, as it is distancing that will be forgotten until isos come into play late game. Distancing doesn't entail "dethroning;" it just means something like the AD->Katsuki interaction I explained earlier.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

@ NC - No, I think that AD is town unless Kat is scum, in which case AD may or may not have been distancing from Kat (hence the word "unless"). This was clearly articulated.

I do not think Abomination is scum. AP does, though, so I can understand this point being confusing for you, which is why I spelled out that AP was the one who had this thought and that I did not think it very plausible in a previous post to you.

We may be using the word "traction" differently. What I mean is that the wagon was extremely comfortable to people early on and it got uncharacteristically big pretty quickly (similar to shos's wagon, but much quicker). This sort of comfort-wagon occurs more often on town I think.

Clyton and AD-Kat are different things. They're only similar in that Clyton and Kats both had lots of posts that made players reflect on their townieness afterward. I think they were linked together in my mind because I used one case to contextualize my thinking about the other at some point a long time ago -- I think with mastin maybe.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

There was so much Kats-town talk after their activity burst that AD popped in to indicate that he disagreed with it (i.e., he instead found Kats null). It was pretty salient.

Maybe you skimmed a few pages.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

I don't have any thoughts, really, but literally the first two things AP texted me when he started reading the thread were "lol nero is so scum" and "i can tell that clyton is town from just like two posts." (At least, those were the first things he said that I hadn't already said to him first.)

I had in the back of my mind to evaluate Clyton because I didn't have a read and everyone thought he was town so I figured he probably was, but wanted to confirm, etc.; but I never went back to look into it again after AP seemed so sure about it.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

I don't have any thoughts, really, but literally the first two things AP texted me when he started reading the thread were "lol nero is so scum" and "i can tell that clyton is town from just like two posts." (At least, those were the first things he said that I hadn't already said to him first.)

I had in the back of my mind to evaluate Clyton because I didn't have a read and everyone thought he was town so I figured he probably was, but wanted to confirm, etc.; but I never went back to look into it again after AP seemed so sure about it.

- Iec

Having just read Clyton (lol), yeah, I guess people just found the second post townie. It's kind of shocking how glowing the town praise was, though. No wonder I noticed that he didn't stand out to me like he did to other people. ^^;

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Read where AngryPidgeon come in and how he interacts with Mastin.

I understand why you think this (I think). I also think you wouldn't feel the same if you considered the entirety of what we've done.

Why is your read on Nero whatever it is?
Also, Rhaego, really? Skimpy posts isn't a scum tell.

[AngryIcerink]

Read where AngryPidgeon come in and how he interacts with Mastin.

FWIW, I totally facepalmed when AP replaced in and did that and can understand why anyone would find it objectionable. To me it looked way disproportionately defensive at pressure from a player whose posts people will mostly not read.

Apparently, AP likes to engage Mastin near the start of the game and get an idea of her alignment that way in all the games they play together.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Wow, the Rhaego iso.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Well, to your credit, I found accidental crumbs in your iso that were way clearer than that.

Namely, "This is Inuyasha."

So I think you probably did at least intend for that post to be some kind of crumb, since you would have just claimed this as your crumb otherwise.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Y&B's posts seem really vacuous to me. I would be OK with voting them. Not sure on AP's opinion.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

@Egg, will have to agree to disagree. I thought that post was so terrible that it overwrote my thinking that Nero was not a wise push even if somewhat scummy.

I would like to emphasize that part of it is how he expressed the idea rather than the idea itself. The idea that you would apply pressure somewhere new or supplement existing pressure to make it do something where you had suspicion is fine, but his language was really just egregious. YMMV I suppose.

I think it's relevant because scum and town can take the same kind of action for different reasons, and language can be relevant to the actual reasons for why they do whatever.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Yes, I read your previous post.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

I think we shouldn't speculate too much on whether Inuyasha could be scum in flavor. People's biases on this point could potentially out likely PRs.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

I was responding to beastcharizard's question about whether Inuyasha could be scum because he was occasionally evil, etc.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

The only undead person I know of in the flavor is Kikyo, though I don't know the flavor very well. I don't think Kikyo really has enough people associated with her to make a scumteam, and she's as likely to be neutral or town as scum I think.

I point this out because it may be that the undead stuff may be a characteristic of particular players regardless of alignment. Or there may be an undead faction I'm not familiar with in the flavor.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

"Other scumteam" is pretty sketch tbf. I do not know AP's opinion on the issue.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

You would naturally tend to say "one scumteam" or "the scumteam" rather than "other scumteam." Town shos had to read AD's inference and believe it and trust in it and refer back to it without and explicit re-reference 20+ pages later.

In other words, he never made a reference to the Naraku team in the vicinity of saying "other scumteam," so I think it's less likely that he was contrasting waaaaay back to AD's claim.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Naraku is apparently the one who created the Seven, anyway, so a naive person wouldn't necessarily even infer that they were a separate team.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

This is why I think Rhaego is scum.

Nothing you've described here makes Rhaego likely scum; it makes him a lurker who replaced out. Who else is scum?

Also I'm 100% sure we have a cop.

Fascinating. I can't believe you are trying to pass a townread on Iec with "he thinks like I do" and then also talk about how you dislike me but not enough for that to swithc your read. Welcome to the special position of "Undesirable #1" on my shortlist. That isn't natural thinking; that is a fabricated read made to look like natural thinking. Klick was scum; you are scum.

this is not the reasoning of someone with a legitimately town inuyasha role pm. You shouldnt have to imo your alignment. Shos doesnt believe his own claim.

Wrong. Shos is being open and honest. Hes town, leave him alone. Can I interest you in High Shroomish or Mist?

Can confirm, made Walter White a fake claim in Breaking Bad Mafia, and a lot of Main-ish characters in TWD Mafia.

This is pretty much the definition of active lurking.

No. It's a 27-Shot Vig unlimited BP Unlychable claim.

Still cheeky and scum.

If Rhaego is scum, so is Egg for this post. It subtly says only the worst offender at a particular transgression can be scum and searches for another player to make worse than Rhaego.

No it doesn't, its a very good inquiry into beastcharizards really bad tunnel on someone who probably isn't scum.

No, it doesn't explicitly say Miller but I'm a town-aligned Demon, so I'm pretty sure that means I'm a miller.

I didn't claim in my first post because the whole miller thing didn't register at first but then I realized it and was like holy fuck I'm a miller.

This post gives me mixed emotions. Let me think about what this means for my desire to lynch you.

but if it's a hydra, why is it inactive?

Wow. You are just looking for any excuse to scumread mastin and it stinks.

Guys. SHOS SAID OTHER SCUM TEAM.

Until someone can come up with a plausible reason why A) he said that and B) he has refused to acknowledge that, he's basically confirmed scum in my eyes.

A) He said it because he has reason to believe that flavor name is in the game and he sucks at phrasing things. The end. Hes actually town for it.

w/e. it's so spurious. I'd say 'other scumteam' anytime I'd have mentally pictured a standard scumteam, no less a scumteam containing naraku in it, the main villain. meaning I could say 'other scumteam' whenever I damn well please.

You are the hero this thread deserves. But not the one it needs right now.

~AP

[AngryIcerink]

Wrong. Shos is being open and honest. Hes town, leave him alone.

Can I interest you in High Shroomish or Mist

?

Why would you want to interest someone in a wagon that you aren't on?

My guess is that he doesn't feel comfortable changing the vote without talking to me first. I know that as of a few days ago (via a phone call on the 4th actually) his position was that you were scum who legitimately believed we were otherscum. So I could imagine him kind of rotating into thinking about other things to vote (i.e., NeroScum -> NeroScumScumhunting -> NeroTown?!).

But we've only talked about Shos today. He basically said he's very sure Shos is town and will let me be angry at him if he is wrong.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

You are bad at critical thinking, or else you are just trying to annoy me.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Could be. Just idk....you're town and you have your vote sitting on your #1 pick as scum...so you (your slot) think the #1 wagon is a mislynch but doesn't sell his #1 scumread? But the last he told you that he thinks I'm scum so I don't really get why he'd "start thinking about other things"

But here's a question to you, obviously 1030 was written by AP and you don't know AP's thoughts...why do you feel the need to respond instead of just waiting for him to reply or for him to tell you what he was doing?

1. Why not? I have some limited insight into AP's thoughts because we text/talk daily and talk about this game sometimes. No reason not to clarify when I have context.

2. Tbf AP sometimes has a posting style that I would find scummy if I were naive to our alignment. He was annoyed at Egg, for example, and thought his posts were disingenuous, but I would probably have raised an eyebrow at some of the same things that Egg did.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Iec+AP, what do you think of majiffy and neros push. Is it worthy of a scumread? I already haveone on NC but maybe maj is tickling kagome with a sword too.

I think Majiffy is town for the negative town utility claim; AP may have a different perspective.

FWIW Majiffy likes to find perceived slips and stick to them when town. He did this in Teen Wolf mafia relatively recently, where I was scum and he caught a scumfriend with reasoning that I found bogus, but he stuck with it through like 3-4 days of content. I don't know whether he does this as scum, too. I know I'm more likely to do it as scum personally (cf., Dynasty Warriors mafia), but that's just me.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

@ Nero -- FWIW, the shos from the previous several pages is 0% similar to the scum shos I played with previously. The lurky shos before that was similar to the earlier shos, though.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

I am town human unpoisonable townie. I can do flavor too if you would like but that doesn't actually matter. This means that there is a way to poison in this game. This might be the way to kill in this game which would be the weird mechanic.

Thanks! I am sure your poisonproofness will now be a huge help!

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

I think AP has more enthusiasm for XofelfScum than I do, but neither of us thinks she is town.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

^ Yes, Xofelf is scummy. I dislike her posts about Abomination. In particular, I disliked her saying they 'could possibly be town'. I mean, everyone could possibly be town. It was such a weird defense because it wasn't very forceful; it looks protown for the sake of being protown imo. I don't really see anything in her posts that look like shes pursuing things that will help her solve the game or that she thinks are interesting.

[AngryIcerink]

Ok but half her votes are from RVS

Ok? This doesn't mean someone is not a good lynch.

being in a poor state to deal with the game

Ok? This doesn't mean someone is not a good lynch.

She's a solid null to me

What she has posted is scummy and that makes her a good wagon.

shos is sketch as fuck and is here to respond to pressure and wagons

I'm pretty sure he already HAS responded; are you not noticing his posts? The 'slip' case that is being shoved on him is really pretty weak.

[AngryIcerink]

Iec+AP, what do you think of majiffy and neros push. Is it worthy of a scumread? I already haveone on NC but maybe maj is tickling kagome with a sword too.

I think Majiffy is town; he feels open and his soft claim is more town than not. I'm wavering a little on my NC scumread; he at least has some amount of zeal this game. Im not sure how much the suspicion of multi0faction is throwing me off. Counter-question: What do you think of TSO and Shroomish?
~Bird.

[AngryIcerink]

You are silly and sharpest is gone

VOTE: Rhaego

For serious what are you doing with all your holding questions?

Also Mastin isn't difficult to read, guys ._.

How do you feel about the Rhaego wagon then?

[AngryIcerink]

Can't figure out why AngryIec is voting Nero instead of xofelf.

Because Iec has spent more time in this game than I have and we haven't talked about moving our vote; if I do move it, it'll be after I talk to him. I don't know how good he feels about Xofelf and I don't want to be the dominant voice in this hydra.

[AngryIcerink]

You're trying way too hard to dismantle a wagon that isn't even leading the pack atm.

What is your read on my slot and why?

[AngryIcerink]

Really? The shos wagon seems pretty 'easy' to me. Half the pressure on him is because he 'slipped'.
-AP

[AngryIcerink]

Can't figure out why AngryIec is voting Nero instead of xofelf.

Because Iec has spent more time in this game than I have and we haven't talked about moving our vote; if I do move it, it'll be after I talk to him. I don't know how good he feels about Xofelf and I don't want to be the dominant voice in this hydra.

Unvote; Vote: Xofelf

I'm fine with that.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

He slipped and to the best of my memory he hasn't adequately explained it. That's sketch as fuck.

He's said that he had it in his mind that it was understood that Naraku was one team based on what AD said plus that there were multiple teams, so he was indicating that the other team whose flavor hadn't been discussed already was undead.

It requires you to infer closereading on shos's part, which is at odds with his previous lurkiness. I think that's the main point against it. But he's seemed relatively town since the nameclaim and AP says I can blame him if he flips scum, so w/e affective consequencees successfully mitigated for me.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

And re: other scumteam: someone said that one scumteam is Naraku & assistants or something. So the othrt is undead.

[AngryIcerink]

IM SAYING ITS EASY TO VOTE HER FOR PRESSURE AND SCUM CAN HOP ON AND COAST

Ya this isn't remotely comparable to voting Shos for 'slipping'. Thats not an easy vote at all.

[AngryIcerink]

SquirrelGirl doublevoted and they are both represented in the vote count.. How did everyone miss that?

Didn't think it was super relevant. Being able to vote two separate people at once isn't necessarily a town role.

If you're hoping to convince us of you being town, you're gonna have to give us more than that.

So you think Shos is scum? Why? I see you defaulted to thinking he is without really saying anything about it.

Woah, Egg. You really seem to be gunning for me and yet none of your reasons seem very legitimate. What's up with that man?

What reasons? Why are you calling Egg out over anyone else on your wagon?

[AngryIcerink]

On Mhork, I think he's townish. As I know him fairly well, the only time I've ever seen him get so fired up about things is when he feels people are doing things that are wrong or unjust. If he's scum he wouldn't put as much into it, and he wouldn't have defended me as hotly as he did.

Then, if Mhork is being Mhork right now, why did you post this:

@Mhork, I thank you for your defense on me while I was gone. I'm not entirely sure why you felt you had to do that though.

It sounds like you already knew the answer.

[AngryIcerink]

If you don't understand the case, then why re you vehemently attacking the votes on her rather than trying to figure out the case??????????
~AP

[AngryIcerink]

I have good reason to know that Clyton was town. Lets not wagon him today.
~AP

[AngryIcerink]

After their latest post, I think they might just be scum mad at all the townies getting cleared for dubious explanations.

[AngryIcerink]

We should probably be lynching Mhork TBH.

[AngryIcerink]

TBF, I kinda thought Mastin was town, (and I'm trying out a new tell, btw I read Mastin correctly as scum in the last two games) but Mastin's reads are really bad and he's just being a lot of noise. She is correct that I think she looks really scummy for defending probs scum....so utility lynch Mastin by day 5?

Trust me, she's town. I'm almost 100% on that.

[AngryIcerink]

no. she's being really deliberate and over-the-top arrogant; it's just a facade. Don't let her psych you into believing arrogance only comes from Town-mastin.

Lol. What makes this from scum then as opposed to town? Yes, mastin can be arrogant as scum but she is just so genuine in this game. I can't even describe why that is, its simply too unabashed to be scum. Too unashamed. Too out there.

[AngryIcerink]

Even in my opacity I have transparency.

Maston, I don't there is any reason for you to be doing this right now though.
And I know that you are frustrated, but seriously this is overreacting a bit. Stay on track - I like that Y&B, Xof, Mhork, Mist group right now. One thing at a time. No need to be all over the place and pandering to potential scum (TSO) like you are.

--

I can do my best to cover for you though : P

[AngryIcerink]

Actually I think y&b look townish after recent posts.

Gym post.

-Bird, obv

[AngryIcerink]

Mastin can I ask as a favor that you keep playing Shroomish as null at best?

[AngryIcerink]

Err playing was not supposed to be in that sentence. Phone post

[AngryIcerink]

Uhm...okay. I guess. I mean, that IS a bit of a favor since Shroomish was a fairly decent townread, but sure.

I know; I think I know why you find Shroomuish town. You quoted the same post that made me hesitant about him (the one about being a demon). I'm getting wary of all the soft-clears for claims/flavor in my head. I could be 100% wrong about Shroomish but I really get off feels from him and I don't trust him. I even tried to convince myself that the Demon=Miller tidbit was reaching but Iec told me he thought it made sense. So I'm not saying Shroomish is scum, but I would definitely not put him anywhere near my town circle.

[AngryIcerink]

I'm tired, but I figured I should start working on the catchup.

Hm. I dislike this phrasing for some reason. The 'tired' excuse feels like preemptive shrugging people off of you for being behind in the first place or whatever may come in the post. 'The catchup' isn't really something I would focus on as a concept in general; feels like you are needing to justify your activity...if that makes any sense. It does in my head.

So how could you want to draw scum to outplay them if they weren't playing?

"Birds of Prey" hydra. Iec thought I might be in it when he cautiously asked if I wanted to hydra, so its not a stretch to think I was in it.

I anticipated daytalk existing this game.

How do you know daytalk doesn't exist again?

Line of inquiry: vetoed. Nobody is permitted to talk about daytalk anymore.

~Fawkes

[AngryIcerink]

Majiffy's posts amuse me.

Is anybody opposed to lynching Mist? The few posts that exist are scummy as balls. If anybody thinks Mist is town they should challenge me to a children's card game over it.

~Tobias

[AngryIcerink]

please don't try to brush away mastin's comment, AI, it doesn't happen that easily.

Ok so lets say mastin isa neighbor. Or maybe she was just speaking in vague general terms like she often does. Lets stop potentially rolefishing her and in return I'll give my 100% guarantee that she is town, feel free to lynch me if she isn't. I will self vote. Coolio?
~Birdman

[AngryIcerink]

What do you guys think about lynching Y&B?

I don't know what Iec's read on them is; I am apathetic leaning towards "meh ok I guess".

[AngryIcerink]

@Angry - what's your take on my Nero case as presented last page?

Well I just spent like 15 minutes trying to parse your ISOs for that exchange in question. Then I spent time looking for why he simply quoted your post and addressed it to Shos and Mastin and couldn't really figure oy what they may have said that triggered that.

I think NC is scummy, I don't know if this point is exceptionally salient; I'll give you that it was still a little weird that he didn't respond to your follow up for a couple days.

[AngryIcerink]

Does Majiffy tunnel as town?

yes

[AngryIcerink]

Right now I'm thinking scum is somewhere here:

Xofelf, shos, Beast.

Leads with a conclusion and then follows up with analysis; this post was premeditated.

Abomonation wagon was really dumb (but understandable)

So let's look at who was on it and I'll poke them with sticks

Talks about the abomination wagon, but adds a disclaimer "(but understandable)" to it to avoid explicitly calling it scummy. Avoiding hard opinions.

1.1: Abomination 5 (shos, Venmar, kdowns, Nero Cain, Young and Beautiful)
1.2: Abomination 6 (shos, kdowns, Nero Cain, Young and Beautiful, T S O, Rhaego)
1.3: Abomination 7 (shos, kdowns, Young and Beautiful, T S O, Rhaego, Katsuki, Nero Cain)
1.4: Abomination 6 (shos, kdowns, Young and Beautiful, Rhaego, Katsuki, Nero Cain)
1.5: Abomination 5 (shos, kdowns, Young and Beautiful, Katsuki, Nero Cain)
1.6: Abomination 5 (shos, kdowns, Young and Beautiful, Katsuki, Nero Cain)
1.7: Abomination 5 (shos, kdowns, Young and Beautiful, Katsuki, Nero Cain)

Information dump that fluffs up the post; IIoA.

Whoops Unvote

Why doesn't Mist vote for someone in her shortlist in this post? Afraid to take a stance; timing of unvote and lack of vote feels unnatural.

shos was a RVS, how do you feel about that vote placement now that it's your wagon everyone's flocking on?

Young and Beautiful placed this vote as an RVS vote, but it become serious? With comments like, "lynch this abomonation." Yeah, but you do think shos is scum, so why haven't you changed your vote? Scratch that, question was already asked. I currently have a null read on you right now though.

Nero Cain, I'm reading your ISO and did you actually change your vote to Clyton, and it was just never counted? Or was that a joke...?

Arbitrary call outs given that Mist doesn't really think the Abomination wagon was all that meaningful in the first place (just dumb). Question to Shos is about as softball as it gets since Mist gives him an excuse for being on the wagon in the first place. Question to Y&B is softball since Mist has already decided they are a nullread before they even answer (why declare that, there is no point). Question to Nero is mostly just asking for information that can be found in the thread if Mist bothered to look.

There is no follow up on any of these questions except the Nero one where Mist blindly asserts that Nero moved his vote because of her pressure (what pressure?) some 250 posts later.

No but it gets funnier when he is still calling Abom scum and wants his slot dead. Why did you switch your vote to Shos Nero, you didn't give an explanation in the post you did it.

It took Mist 4 minutes to craft this masterpiece. I want to emphasize that that IS scummy.

No content other than this; I found a scum, can we lynch her? She turned me into a newt.

[AngryIcerink]

Can we talk about my Mist case? I want attention, god damn it.

~Pajaro.

[AngryIcerink]

'cause 928 or w/e post # isn't townie and I have no clue why you think it is.

FTR I agree. I looked up the post in question and was a little weirded out that someone thought it was town, especially since I personally don't see how there was any danger of outing PRs, but -shrug, I know some people are suckers for objectively protown thoughts even though scum is capable of them too.
~Hedwig

[AngryIcerink]

If we want to talk about useless fluff and comments, you have plenty, such as your comment about Walter White.

Actually that comment was relevant?; I remember it being in response to Shos's incredulity about Inuyasha possibly being a fake claim.
FTR, I'd defo lynch TSO. I don't know how good I feel about him flipping scum compared to other people, but I'd count it as policy for a bonus.

[AngryIcerink]

@AIR I agree that Mist is scummy but if you think 702 is scummy then why are you not scumreading SG for sheeping that awful "logic"?

When did SG mention Mist at all?

[AngryIcerink]

Why should we lynch Mist first?

-Mist is not doing anything protown so I won't miss her even if Im wrong.
-Mist is probably scum (IMO) based on that post and her air in general.
-Nobody in this game thinks Mist is town, so there shouldn't be much opposition to doing it.

[AngryIcerink]

what would Venmar's mod meta have anything to do with Cephrir's mod meta?

Jesus christ, who cares?

Do you think Shos is town because he claimed Inuyasha and hasn't been CC'd?
~Big Bird

[AngryIcerink]

Are you seriously going to nitpick the exact relevancy of Venmar's observation?

Shos was arguing that he was town for being Inuyasha.

Venmar stated that that is BS and supported his stance by referencing a game where the main character was a fakeclaim.What on earth is scummy about that? Right, nothing.

[AngryIcerink]

I honestly do not think InuYasha's in the game.

Can we not base our reads on mod meta and D1 flavor spec? Lets actually vote people who are doing scummy things, not people who are claiming main characters as their role, because that is a NULL tell and will always ever be a NULL tell. The end.
~You know who this is.

[AngryIcerink]

What's the difference here?

You didn't quote the Mist quote right above that one. The one where Mist says you are scum because you switched your votes in response to being called out for voting Abomination (by her). She then follows up in that pos you quoted to say that your vote hop is even MORE scummy because it wasn't explained and that you are still calling Abom scum.

SG, on the other hand, had her vote on you before any of this happened. SG voted you in 689, Mist in 701. In the post you quoted, she reasserts her vote on you (which was there before mist made those posts) and implied that it is scummy that you are OMGUsing your wagon (I am inferring from the structuring of her sentences a little bit here, but the part that reads "Do you honestly think it's 2 scum and 1 town currently on you?" makes it sound like she finds you to be OMGUSing, which Mist never mentioned.

--

So how is SG even remotely sheeping Mist?

[AngryIcerink]

My theory is that shos played intentionally badly, got run up, because he knew he had the main character claim, and thought he'd be conftown from there.

This isn't something scum would actually ever do.

[AngryIcerink]

But majiffy xof didn't answer her wagon before her internet cut out!

Mhork is town and wrong. This is what people do when they are town and think something about the game is obvious and perceive that someone finally sees it their way, whereas scum would veer on the side of letting other people take up the mantle of whatever they were trying to get going. Also irrelevant here as Majiffy already had the mantle, etc.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

TOS is scummy.

As of a few days ago AP had a theory that TOS was scum with a particular player. I can't remember who he thought it was, though. But that made me read TOS's posts more critically than I would otherwise.

Re: Y&B, I have found them to be a non-entity so far. They would not be a tragic mislynch in the WCS.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

rofl Mhork is so bad at mafia.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

I guess AP may do something silly in the next 10 pages, though.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Limit wagons? Let's limit our wagons and go from there?

Yes.

To yourself, Y&B, and xofelf.

I endorse this product/service.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

After their latest post, I think they might just be scum mad at all the townies getting cleared for dubious explanations.

AP, please clarify whether this referred to TSO or Y&B.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

We should probably be lynching Mhork TBH.

K, so this is why Mhork got sassy. No real surprise.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Maybe but I mean...(ala Tommy Lee Jones) I DON'T CARE!

really bad reads + noise=utility lynch

though I'd still lynch a ton of folks before her.

Deprecated criticisms.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

guys, we should shelf the Mastin might be scum talk and lynch SG.

Random alternatarget. No recent content from them. Suggestive of at least one Nero scumfriend being run up at present if Nero ever flips scum.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

After their latest post, I think they might just be scum mad at all the townies getting cleared for dubious explanations.

AP, please clarify whether this referred to TSO or Y&B.

-Iec

Y&B. I am waffling on them though. They had a little freakout at one point and talked about being mislynched that made me lean a little town on them. They certainly aren't my preferred lynch Today, but I could see them being scum.

[AngryIcerink]

I'm really confused. When did YB have a spine?

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Actually I think y&b look townish after recent posts.

Gym post.

-Bird, obv

I agree with this, though it's hard to say without knowing who they are.

Before that they had basically no identity at all in my mind.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Neither.

You show passion and frustration trying to solve.

Sven is town.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

"I am conflicted about TSO, leaning town" ---> "vote: tso"

see, this is why you're scum.

1. Hypocrisy is not a scumtell.

2. You've posted a lot of content recently that could significantly modulate anyone's perspective about you.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Does Majiffy tunnel as town? Or is he death tunneling a scumbuddy? Hmmm? Idk, he can be town for now, A+

He has done it at least once as town.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Does Majiffy tunnel as town?

yes

Make that at least twice.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Right now I'm thinking scum is somewhere here:

Xofelf, shos, Beast.

Leads with a conclusion and then follows up with analysis; this post was premeditated.

Abomonation wagon was really dumb (but understandable)

So let's look at who was on it and I'll poke them with sticks

Talks about the abomination wagon, but adds a disclaimer "(but understandable)" to it to avoid explicitly calling it scummy. Avoiding hard opinions.

1.1: Abomination 5 (shos, Venmar, kdowns, Nero Cain, Young and Beautiful)
1.2: Abomination 6 (shos, kdowns, Nero Cain, Young and Beautiful, T S O, Rhaego)
1.3: Abomination 7 (shos, kdowns, Young and Beautiful, T S O, Rhaego, Katsuki, Nero Cain)
1.4: Abomination 6 (shos, kdowns, Young and Beautiful, Rhaego, Katsuki, Nero Cain)
1.5: Abomination 5 (shos, kdowns, Young and Beautiful, Katsuki, Nero Cain)
1.6: Abomination 5 (shos, kdowns, Young and Beautiful, Katsuki, Nero Cain)
1.7: Abomination 5 (shos, kdowns, Young and Beautiful, Katsuki, Nero Cain)

Information dump that fluffs up the post; IIoA.

Whoops Unvote

Why doesn't Mist vote for someone in her shortlist in this post? Afraid to take a stance; timing of unvote and lack of vote feels unnatural.

shos was a RVS, how do you feel about that vote placement now that it's your wagon everyone's flocking on?

Young and Beautiful placed this vote as an RVS vote, but it become serious? With comments like, "lynch this abomonation." Yeah, but you do think shos is scum, so why haven't you changed your vote? Scratch that, question was already asked. I currently have a null read on you right now though.

Nero Cain, I'm reading your ISO and did you actually change your vote to Clyton, and it was just never counted? Or was that a joke...?

Arbitrary call outs given that Mist doesn't really think the Abomination wagon was all that meaningful in the first place (just dumb). Question to Shos is about as softball as it gets since Mist gives him an excuse for being on the wagon in the first place. Question to Y&B is softball since Mist has already decided they are a nullread before they even answer (why declare that, there is no point). Question to Nero is mostly just asking for information that can be found in the thread if Mist bothered to look.

There is no follow up on any of these questions except the Nero one where Mist blindly asserts that Nero moved his vote because of her pressure (what pressure?) some 250 posts later.

No but it gets funnier when he is still calling Abom scum and wants his slot dead. Why did you switch your vote to Shos Nero, you didn't give an explanation in the post you did it.

It took Mist 4 minutes to craft this masterpiece. I want to emphasize that that IS scummy.

No content other than this; I found a scum, can we lynch her? She turned me into a newt.

I am proud of our goodpostings.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

'cause 928 or w/e post # isn't townie and I have no clue why you think it is.

FTR I agree. I looked up the post in question and was a little weirded out that someone thought it was town, especially since I personally don't see how there was any danger of outing PRs, but -shrug, I know some people are suckers for objectively protown thoughts even though scum is capable of them too.
~Hedwig

Never make this kind of post again thanks.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

No I'm saying that cephrawr interacts more with me than you >.>
He hears my mafia theory rambles more.

Say that to my face you hardcore gamer, how dare you call me a casual without lubing me up first and proving your thumbs in the arena?

rofl <3 venmar

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

My theory is that shos played intentionally badly, got run up, because he knew he had the main character claim, and thought he'd be conftown from there.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

My theory is that shos played intentionally badly, got run up, because he knew he had the main character claim, and thought he'd be conftown from there.

This isn't something scum would actually ever do.

Common sense OP.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

see, this is why I get mad.

Firstly, I cannot even take you seriously when YOU CANNOT SPELL MY NAME CORRECTLY. IT'S TSO, FOR FUCK'S SAKE. NOT TOS.

But then, after misspelling my name, you talk about AP's theory of me being scum with someone... someone... and then you don't even say who it is!

And then you finish it off by saying you've been reading my posts critically, and well, um, that's it. You never give your opinion on them, or point out flaws... nothing at all.

Sorry. Everyone calls me icerint, so I can understand that frustration. That's why I sign everything Iec now.

I've been mostly ignoring you all game, so I wanted to provide context for why I paid more attention to your posts. I honestly don't remember who he thought it was. Anyway, it was before the last 15 pages of content, so it's probably a deprecated theory. AP comes up with new theories and discards them pretty rapidly.

I'm sorry it bothers you that I find your posts kinda scummy. I did find it kinda townish when you got angry at someone or other and said you were ignoring their posts after having said that something (can't recall what) was behavior you reserved for people terrible at the game or something. That seemed like a sequence of emotions I have experienced before as town, but never as scum.

Part of the reasons I tried to be quick is that I have to leave where I am at 8:35 PM EST or so and then I won't be able to post again until probably late Thursday, so I wanted to make sure I got through all of the thread before I lost access.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Also no the mist case feels lazy. She's obviously not here right now and she's not a serious hardcore player

....

Nobody ever said she is scummy for lack of content; I said that the content that exists is scummy.

Why on earth do you whiteknight lurkers so aggressively, I don't get it.

~AP

[AngryIcerink]

guys, we should shelf the Mastin might be scum talk and lynch SG.

Random alternatarget. No recent content from them. Suggestive of at least one Nero scumfriend being run up at present if Nero ever flips scum.

- Iec

I'd say that it's, y'know, indicative of Mastin being scum, seeing as he is

directly fucking impeding her wagon progress and deflecting onto SG.

But, sure, whatever. Nero's subtlety is clearly beyond my ken and he's dissing the mastin wagon to subconsciously trick us into not voting that OTHER wagon! You know, that one! The one we can't identify at all! THAT wagon is scum. Mastin is simply an innocent.

Mastin is town.

I am not saying that the random alternatarget makes Nero scum -- just that IF he is scum, there is probably a tactical reason for the alternatarget.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

"I am conflicted about TSO, leaning town" ---> "vote: tso"

see, this is why you're scum.

1. Hypocrisy is not a scumtell.

2. You've posted a lot of content recently that could significantly modulate anyone's perspective about you.

- Iec

1. Hypocrisy is when you accuse someone of doing something you do yourself.

Shos voted me for no reason with no showing of why he did it.

I have never done that.

2. like what? go on

1. Hypocrisy is saying one thing and doing another, or that's how I meant it in this case. I apologize for the confusion. "Lack of consistency" if you prefer.

2. Shos already followed up on this a page or so after I posted this and confirmed that that was why. I guess look at all the posts in your iso in the apparent 7 pages between your "catch" and his vote on you?

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

the problem is my level of enjoyment in this game has been sinking down, down, down, and I'm more inclined to just be sarcastic and show everyone why they're wrong rather than actually quotewall, which is usually the key to looking town.

if you think I'm scum for that, so be it; it's not like I'm emotionally invested in this game.

On the contrary, my impression is that you are extremely emotionally invested. The question is the relevance of that point to your alignment, which may be nothing.

Quote walls certainly aren't a towntell.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

I don't know how many people are scumreading me and no-one has given me a solid reason. no-one.

Shos: refuses to give it.
Iec: You don't know it.
Y&B: thinks she's captured the d1 of a scum game of mine I mislynched her in. also scum.
mastin: says that me thinking the slip is why I'm scum when Majiffy did also and he's conftown??? her whole case is just her doing her best to misrep me because I'm the only one who tried to push her.
Venmar: I have no idea why Venmar is scumreading me, straight up.

If you are town my recommendation is that you play the game so that it will become obvious that you are town. Your preoccupation with a handful of voteless suspicions on you is easy to read as scummy, for example.

Relevant if this is generally how you live your life, e.g. I don't think I've ever played with you before.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

I am pretty satisfied with Xofelf right now. Comeback post is weird (thinks we're town, but thinks the Mist case is on a townie -- vague fencesitting on shos -- townread on maybe-scum 3rd tier TSO -- pivot to YB who while not stunning is relatively an entity of late).

If Mist is the same Mist who was in FFVI Mafia ages ago, scummy Mist is just kinda scum. But I've never played with town Mist.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

People I am very sure are town: Always, Venmar, Neil, Dan, Majiffy
People I don't really feel inclined to lynch Today: TSO (Ya I know, I actually am reading his emotion as town a little here), Squirrel, Geists, Sven, BBMolla, Y&B, Katsuki, Shos
---

People I want to lynch: Birds, Egg, Mist, BulbaFenix, ...Mhork, Nero, Xof

~AP. Up to date opinions for me.

[AngryIcerink]

Mastin's attempted to limit lynches today to {Y&B, xof, TSO). If I was following this, I'd obviously vote Y&B, as I'm townreading xof. However, I hate this plan and think it's shit, so that's another reason not to vote Y&B yet.

Why are you letting mastin rustle your jimmies so much? Are you seriously going to avoid voting someone you think is scum and who has a wagon on them just to spite mastin? Stop being a punk.

@Iec: Ellipses indicated that I am kind of seeing 2 scumteams because I don't think some of those people make sense as scum together (Mist and Xof, for instance). Ellipses didn't mean a whole lot.

[AngryIcerink]

And Nati likes Birds of Prey in the top group. Good enough.

Really, why? I've actually been disliking most of their stuff. It kind of hit me subtly, not any one thing, but I started thinking about them and I guess (without looking at any posts right now) I'd say they are being kind of a non-presence. They are sort of around but not really stirring the pot.
~AP

[AngryIcerink]

We are V/LA until Monday BTW.

In Seattle. We should still be around to post and stuff, just limited access.

[AngryIcerink]

We are back from V/LA now, but I may not be able to post until late Monday.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

We are back from V/LA now, but I may not be able to post until late Monday.

- Iec

Ya, I'm just checking in. Been busy with work related things since getting back from Seattle, I'll catch up on break or after work. In case I'm unable to do that, I'll just cheerlead a little intermittently!!

(Also I told you guys Y&B lynch was meh, I saw their claim : P)
~Falco

[AngryIcerink]

Really, I'm usually the lowest poster in a game. I don't care how big it is, having over ten posts less than me is an outrage. Especially for having been in the game since the start.

VOTE: PROHAWK

I'm interested to see where this vote goes. The case behind the vote is bad, but this is still an interesting development.

The setup speculation is gross and should really stop.

Then stop asking mastin why she thinks there is daytalk
Mastin is towntowntowntown, so I don't care if you think this might be a scumslip.

[AngryIcerink]

AP catchup post....

This wagon on Y and B does not happen without us.

Good job with that; can we go back to wagoning people who aren't just upset town now?

Y and B is a scum wagon.

This just reads like fake confidence. In the sense that you didn't want to show doubt because you might get called out fir hedging or something so you are just faking it. IMO.

Nati's pressure on Lemonskate looks really town. It feels like something I would do as town if I had a gut feel that someone was nervous or something. I would support the Lemonskate wagon atm. He isn't my favorite lynch but its decent enough that I would do it.

196 does have town intent.

We have an additional power that we can forfeit to stop being a miller.

So will you use it?

Calling this post town-motivated is a stretch. A really really big stretch. Like my mom would slap your wrist for reaching so far across the dinner table if you did that around her.

Vote: BBMolla.

He's not being town.

Point of regard, I have a gut townread on BBMolla and I fully understand why you think he isn't being town. Further, can we not waste everyone's time with useless votes? Thanks!

Add in AP's sudden scumread on me after the Y and B wagon takes off...

This is adorable. Yes my townread on Y&B was correct and the wagon on them sucks. Get dunked.

holy fucking shit, Hs is town. there's no way scum would go through all the trouble to make such post.

Shroomish? Disagree strongly. All that post was was a PBPA wall, 90% of which was just calling Y&B posts useless in different ways. Thanks for playing; try again.
/68

[AngryIcerink]

Pbpa of all posts is a red flag and not that town of hs.

AP <3 Dan. You are the voice of reason this game.

Why is this?

Because PBPA posts are really easy to make. They don't really require or demonstrate any original thought to make which is perfect for scum since they can appear busy and opinionated by making them without having to conjure up content that is difficult to fake. The conclusion of PBPA posts is predetermined when someone goes to make them and there is almost no logical flow or internal feelings/thoughts that can be traced when reading it. For example, when you read HS's post about Y&B, what does it tell you about HS? Nothing. All it tells you is that HS has decided that Y&B are scummy and he went thorough their posts and called them all useless. It looks like a lot of words (because it is), but its all very superficial and not really giving us anything as to why HS is focusing on them in the first place (other than "trolling is scummy" which is pretty easy and cheap).

I am a credible source on this because I definitely have committed similar sins (PbPA walls surrounding a certain point) as scum that follow a similar format.

You're a scummy little shit that goes for easy mislynches and throws flak from the sidelines.

because just floating and not doing anything is inherently scummy, but it's not my main case.

Could have fooled me.

After the past couple of pages, I'm okay with this direction.

After this post, I'm okay with lynching Lemonskate.

Nobody, nobody at all, has townread Y&B this game

Actually I think y&b look townish after recent posts.

Pardon me, but I do want some street cred for calling this.

The constituency of the wagon is awful. Of the 11 names there, only geists, TSO, shos, and mhork are townreads. Does anyone seriously believe this is a town-driven wagon? I considered the possibility that this is all a big bus on a liability, but even that seems unlikely, because it's a hard-counterwagon to xolf, which makes little sense regardless of her alignment.

This reads really contrived to me. Can you go over your partial claim again (or better yet just full claim in your next post?).
/73

[AngryIcerink]

BoP's reaction to the Y&B claim looks scummy to me. Its kind of overdefensive and pointed and I'm not seeing any frustration which I know I would experience if town in that situation. The shotgun list of questions (including pointless ones like "Why would Y&B not give reads???") just feels like an attempt to take a new course that looks natural; I don't think it is very natural.

The way he went about the wagon, SG. It feels more like town trying to hit obvscum and being frustrated afterward

Uhhhhh, literally nothing in BoP's posts post-claim suggests that they are frustrated. The closest they come is being snarky towards Squirrel Girl which is fairly independent of the claim anyways. Their post after the claim still calls Y&B probable scum, so I don't see where you are getting that they are frustrated about leading a wagon on town. Lol.

this vote [BoP vote on Moigle, sic] is lolzy

The paranoid part of me thinks its a random bus.

The Y&B wagon is disbanding in an unnaturally slow way that makes me think that players who were on it don't have a good wagon to jump to.

Wow this is very interesting, tell me more. No seriously, tell me more. I want to know precisely who on this wagon is scummy for not knowing where to put there vote after the claim. Full claim in your next post please.

AP speculates wildly (and inaccurately) on scumteams:
Undead scumteam: Birds, Egg, BulbaFenix, ?MDT/Mist?
Other scumteam: Xofelf, HighShroomish, ?LemonSkate / Nero / ?? ?

P-edit: I don't see the case on him other than the "other" scumteam comment which I think actually makes him more town than not, especially his recent post about how we are all wasting time on it which would be a bit bold for scum to post head-on like that.

[AngryIcerink]

Xof or Lemon today please and thanks. We have 4 days left. Im about 36 hours away from sheeping the largest wagon blindly and I'd really rather not mislynch Shos over some horseshit slip case. I may or may not read his ISO later.

[AngryIcerink]

He's probably a cop that works only on demons IMO. My skim of his ISO suggests that he is a strong town PR.

[AngryIcerink]

Seriously read his ISO. He makes a big deal about not claiming his role and gets really OMGUSy at people he perceives are rolefishing him. Scum wouldn't be doing that bullshit sense they would be trying to appease someone. His 'other scumteam' comment is because he only investigates Demons and probably has something in his role PM that suggests the scum he can't investigate are undead. He then tried to cover up his role-slip by referring to AD's comment, so that was a lie but a town one. He is genuinely convinced that Inuyasha claim makes him town and his incredulity that he could be scum is partially because he is a strong town PR so he sees al the accusations of Inuyasha=scum really far-fetched because he is the opposite of that and sees main-character = strong town PR from his perspective. Also note that he was interested subtly at at least one point about who counts as a demon.

He specifically mentions he wasn't lurking intentionally to distance from his PR. He doesn't want to fullclaim because he is a cop. He is hoping he can coast off the pressure for a few days and use his strong PR.

Jesus. Its all pretty obvious to anyone paying attention to why hes being weird as opposed to blindly scumreading him for it. Can we lynch off the current shos wagon?

[AngryIcerink]

I would think this would be pretty easy for you, since you've got them all in your scumlists: {BoP, xof, lemniscate, mist}. They have the option to either jump on shos who is clearly town, or their buddies, or do nothing. They've chosen the latter.

I'm not going to hold your hand; you made a very blanket statement about people on the the Y&B wagon not knowing where to go. You

implied

this was scummy of them but didn't say it. I dislike blanket statements like "Oh X is town because the wagon on them is so fast", but I can sort of see it. The point you made, however, should DEFINITELY have been aimed at individual people that you observed doing this rather than simply throwing a general off-handed accusation out there that requires parsing of individual posts to validate on an individual level for everyone on the wagon. TL;DR: This point looks like you are making baseless generalizations and not really putting thought into it.

In your followup, you mention that this is explicitly scummy because people don't want to vote shos (why?) or bus a buddy (seriously these are the only options?). This is a false dichotomy. A player's options are unique based on what they have posted so this generalization continues to be bad.
~I'm out of celebrity birds to sign with.

[AngryIcerink]

it

I think this sentence was a little confusing. By "it" I mean I can at least understand SOME general statements like the one I provided as an example.

[AngryIcerink]

The awkward resistance to the shos wagon

This is mostly just me and mastin chanting about how Show is town loudly and repeatedly. I'm pretty sure you trust mastin at least.

[AngryIcerink]

Counterpoint: can we compromise lynch someone?

[AngryIcerink]

Already disappointed by NS. Let him read for himself.
~AP

[AngryIcerink]

Looks like I was wrong about TSO being town. Oops.
~AP

[AngryIcerink]

NS is being intentionally oblivious; would lynch. Efforts to appear town are also half-hearted and tragic, would put him out of his misery.

[AngryIcerink]

IME people who have scum reads usually mention them all.

I was trying to figure them out from who you quoted in that post and what you responded to and it wasn't very edifying.

You still think Lemon is scum? I thought his little outburst here was townish. I agree with Molla though, mixed opinions. Is it bad that Molla is becoming my best townread?
@NS: I have mislynched you before and I've mislynched bigger names than you; you don't look town here. You really, really don't. Stop stirring up horseshit with Majiffy that is not going to accomplish anything and propose a compromise that is reasonable in the time we have available. Y&B is a claimed friendly neighbor.

[AngryIcerink]

Go back and look at that townish post. It was 99% yelling at Nati. Not about his scum reads including who he voted.

I think this is more likely to be from town than not? His lack of explaining things makes me think hes just town and along for the ride rather than nervous and trying to fit in. The bit about not being able to defend himself read a liiiiittle scummy to me though.

townreaded

We're gonna no lynch aren't we?

Probably. 3 days to deadline.

why can't we lynch mhork

3 days to deadline. 15 to lynch.

3 DAYSTO DEADLINE. IF YOU ARE VOTING A WAGON WITH < 4 VOTERS ON IT, CHANGE THAT IN YOUR NEXT POST

[AngryIcerink]

I'm 24 hours away from voting the largest wagon indiscriminately. Make shit happen you freaking sloths.

[AngryIcerink]

Abomination 1 (Katsuki)
Always 1 (beastcharizard)
BBmolla 1 (Always)
Moogle Dance Troupe 1 (Birds of Prey)
Majiffy 1 (shos)
Lord Mhork 1 (notscience)

15 to lynch.

Not Voting 3 (The Goat, xofelf, HighShroomish)

Holy shit, what are you morons doing?

[AngryIcerink]

Remember, shos had voted me for thinking he was a softclaimed pr but ignores the shit of AIR when he speculates he's a cop?

Damn you chep for only giving me 3 shots.

He also ignored me posting in all caps that people need to get off vanity wagons and calling him a moron for being on one.

Woe is me.

[AngryIcerink]

Vote a leading wagon please, I don't care i you decide you want to switch to another leading wagon later. I don't trust you to actually vote before deadline.

[AngryIcerink]

well what, you want me to just go inni mini miney mo who's the next motherfucker to go? randomvote on a leading wagon?

Alternatively you can shake a magic 8 ball, pray to god for advice, sacrifice a chicken, or use a ouija board. I really don't give 2 shits how you go about deciding which actual wagon to vote.

[AngryIcerink]

Stop posturing on probscum Moogle and put your vote somewhere useful, thanks.

P-edit: Good for you. I get scumread all the time for my deadline freakouts. Now shutup and vote a leading wagon.

[AngryIcerink]

Seriously read his ISO. He makes a big deal about not claiming his role and gets really OMGUSy at people he perceives are rolefishing him. Scum wouldn't be doing that bullshit sense they would be trying to appease someone. His 'other scumteam' comment is because he only investigates Demons and probably has something in his role PM that suggests the scum he can't investigate are undead. He then tried to cover up his role-slip by referring to AD's comment, so that was a lie but a town one. He is genuinely convinced that Inuyasha claim makes him town and his incredulity that he could be scum is partially because he is a strong town PR so he sees al the accusations of Inuyasha=scum really far-fetched because he is the opposite of that and sees main-character = strong town PR from his perspective. Also note that he was interested subtly at at least one point about who counts as a demon.

He specifically mentions he wasn't lurking intentionally to distance from his PR. He doesn't want to fullclaim because he is a cop. He is hoping he can coast off the pressure for a few days and use his strong PR.

Jesus. Its all pretty obvious to anyone paying attention to why hes being weird as opposed to blindly scumreading him for it. Can we lynch off the current shos wagon?

[AngryIcerink]

People I hate: Thegoat, VFT, Shos

[AngryIcerink]

Oh my god. I just can't stand the playerbase anymore. People won't even sacrifice pride for objectively good plays.

[AngryIcerink]

I mean BFP i just scum. But some of you idiots letting it get to 3 Days to DL whilst on solo wagons are town.

[AngryIcerink]

Epic fail. Titus please. I know for a FACT you were in Street Racers where I did the same damn song and dance.

[AngryIcerink]

AP's usually not paranoid over wagons being cut shorter, so I'm thinking all the wagons are town and AP doesn't want any other wagon to develop

> It takes 15 votes to lynch someone
> There is < 3 days to deadline
> People are lurking and being stubborn as hell in this game

We are not no-lynching Today, the end. That is literally all I care about at this point.

[AngryIcerink]

Giests, ignore goat this is a large reason why I scum read him in that nexus game. He's a red herring!

Can we at least threaten to PL him if he doesn't pick it up?

[AngryIcerink]

Can you define the term?

[AngryIcerink]

Soooooooooo?

[AngryIcerink]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: shos

[AngryIcerink]

Mhork is scum bit I'll let that one simmer. Iec thinks he's town last I heard.

[AngryIcerink]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: shos

Can you explain this vote plox?

Xofelf claimed PR. Shos or Lemon. Meh.

Pedit: joat claim isn't a town claim by any means but irrelevant.

I agree that titus is scum.

Ppedit: it was a true claim obviously lmao. It doesn't mean it's town though.

[AngryIcerink]

So ap you disagree with ice that shos is town and weren't you guys speculating that he was a cop? So a person claims joat and you move your vote cause pr claim but are voting a person you still think is a pr? I dun get it.

I don't know what Iec thinks about Shos atm. My gut reaction to xofelf post was that it looked faintly town and her role claim makes me want to give her a Day at least. The only other votes I'm entertaining are shos and Lemon. Lemon is a gut town feel lightly based on recent posts. Shos growing more meh.

[AngryIcerink]

Unvote; Vote: TheGoat

I will vanity wagon TheGoat for 24 hours and switch to probably xof after that time passes if it hasn't taken off.

I have not discussed this with AP.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

My god, if I acknowledge your case will you stop being a whiny little bitch about it?

Okay? What about it? My vote was exactly what it appeared to be.

I was sheeping

the YandB wagon because

nobody was listening to any other wagon that was trying to form

at that moment and

I just wanted to get past Day 1.

So from my analysis, there was no one to sheep exactly from the last couple of pages (Votes were static), nor any other wagon was even being attempted to be pushed (Even Majiffy was being quiet about Shos at that point). From the statement "After the past couple of pages" leads me to believe that there was something IN the pages that led you to that conclusion, yet you say it was just a sheeping vote and you do not comment further on the question I asked.

This is not a town-response to these questions. Am I all alone in my reasoning here?

This case is pretty shitty. You are nitpicking the use o the word "sheeping" when Lemon clearly said that she was sheeping THE WAGON and not any particular vote/case. You pretty much AGREE that nobody was 'listening to any other wagon' by pointing out that no other wagons were really getting pushed in the first place. Of the 3 wagons you quoted, 1 of them was on Lemon, and that one and the Xof wagon combined had less than the number of votes on Y&B. The assertion that she just wanted to get past D1 makes a fair amount of sense in this context and how long and tedious this day is (which she also pointed out in her opening post). Its not unreasonable to think that Y&B posted something in the last few pages that made Lemon less opposed to lynching them.

your only other accusation is that she isn't following up on your question...which she did and the response feels genuine-ish to me. Even if she didn't point out exactly what changed her mind in the posts in question.

Lets face it, this votehop of Lemon's is basically low hanging

fruit

lemons and you are probably scum for this crappy push. \o/. Read on Mhorky?

~Tweety Bird

[AngryIcerink]

My god, if I acknowledge your case will you stop being a whiny little bitch about it?

I regret being this pointed, please forgive my being caustic.

[AngryIcerink]

Oh, and when Leminiscate flips scum, I will spend all of D2 rubbing it in your face AI.

I love it when you talk dirty to me .

At this rate I'll probably be voting there soon for lolz and wagons. My read on the slot really is not that strong and I won't be that sorry to see her go anyhow. Don't think for a second that a scum flip from Lemon makes you probtown though; feel free to rub it in my face with that in mind should she flip scum.

[AngryIcerink]

Maybe not, but it does legitimize my case after you see me flip town.

Uhhhh, except Lemni is pretty much going to get lynched and flip today which makes your opinions on her alignment rather moot.

[AngryIcerink]

Ap is so scumy, wish we could have lynched that todAY

You still suck at reading me and have never actually read me as anything other than scum. Im not going to count WWE because I was barely in that whatsoever.

[AngryIcerink]

look now AP is trying to discredit me, so scummy

I made the same point in GoW mafia and I was town there too so suck it.

[AngryIcerink]

Nero wanna vote Lemni so I can hammer?

[AngryIcerink]

Scumteam 1- Nero, AP, Abomination

Hahahahaha.

Ok Nero, why is PH town?

You don't have to townread me to vote for Lemni; Im not going to make a case for myself being town right now.

@Ffery: ok, and?

Re Lemni claiming: Im over it We already have multiple PR claims today, frankly I don't see a Lemni claim giving us any time to wagon anything meaningful and I dont see the claim mattering at this point.

[AngryIcerink]

I'm not above it. You haven't given me anything to work with.

Shes done more than post
Shos is satan Shos is hitler Shos is scum Shos is evil Shos is mafia Shos is a Nazi Shos has a gun Shos scumslipped Shos should die
on loop.
Ffery: Why did you point out the speed of the wagon on Lemon? Does it matter to you?

[AngryIcerink]

And I don't like AP trying to push a lynch on a newbie without giving her a fair shot

lmao. There is so much wrong with this sentence.

[AngryIcerink]

You've repeatedly said you don't give a fuck if she has time to claim, and tried to get nero to vote her so you could hammer without so much as giving that fair shot.

Yes. Because we don't have enough time to wagon another person, we already have about 4 or more PR claims, and I strongly doubt any claim from Lemni will change anything significantly. We should have lynched someone 5 days ago. The end.

[AngryIcerink]

Thats all just

just

peachy but we have < 48 hours to deadline and Lemni is far from a beacon of townieness and is a good lynch in this circumstance.

[AngryIcerink]

Nothing useful has happened in the past few pages except votes on Lemni which are putting an end to all this crap.

Majiffy, can we just end this CF already? Who really cares if ffery gave you a reach around this game or not.
Ffery, stop antagonizing Majiffy.
NS, you seem to not really understand practicality as a concept. If you think I'm playing ANYTHING like Tales then I can't help you.

People refuse to let this Day end for absolutely baffling reasons. Its dead, Jim.

[AngryIcerink]

I have a novel idea. Lets lynch someone before 100 pages just to break tradition.

[AngryIcerink]

Whatever. I'm making AP do it, though.

It feels super awkward when I adjust my read on someone partially for the sake of dissonance (i.e., I would not have read Lemniscate as critically or with the same perspective if AP hadn't made his posts about her) only to have AP do a 180 within 12 hours.

grumblegrumble

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Iec who do you think should be lynched, given the claims.

I think they are all town. Probably Lemniscate is the best bet. I do like her iso fairly well though. I would honestly prefer a flashwagon on a non-entity, but I guess Lemniscate is close enough to a non-entity that it bothers me less than shos or xof.

If I were not

Despite being the same slot as him, I am quite peeved at AP for basically preventing this from happening by freaking out 4 days before deadline when it was no big deal. I wish I had posted more, but I was traveling Sunday and am in classes 9-6 or so and then raid til 9 PM every day this week and then I have to prepare for the next day, so I've had to really sneak in my catch-up and posting times and have had low presence as a result, so I feel responsible for what I consider to be poor tactical choices, etc.

The situation with shos particularly pisses me off because I've read him as town all game and there was no reason for him to claim and I feel like our slot played a role in that, but I kind of went along with it anyway.

Xof gets an A for effort I guess. I would feel stupid for lynching her prematurely given the level of episodic detail in her claim. Leaving lemniscate. But I didn't really townread her until I was catching up and saw that AP had had read whiplash on her.

I am a little concerned that my annoyance at the situation is partly related to my discomfort with AP's approach to the game the previous few pages. I normally get annoyed when people read me as scum in games, and it becomes a game event for me, and then I can help get oriented. But in this game I basically agree that AP has posted things that would make any rational person kind of read it twice, so I can't have my normal reaction when someone reads us as scum. I am worried that it is messing up things.

The more I think about it the less annoyed I am about lynching lemn I guess. I am more annoyed at AP.

Sorry I love you. <3

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

I'm still wondering odds of Iece calling to hydra with AP because he rolled scum and was having trouble with it. Wasn't iece under massive fire in the beginning?

Oh dear.

1. "Still"? When have you expressed this opinion?

2. I have never done that in my life. The only other time I have hydraed in my life is when I asked Sapo to hydra with me in Game of Thrones, and it was because I knew she liked the flavor and I thought it would be fun, and we got lynched because I mis-posted something in the game-thread. We were scum.

I asked him to hydra with me because I knew he was kind of following it because mastin and I were in it and I felt awkward not talking to him about it, so I decided to just ask him to join. I also felt awkward because I didn't know if he was in one of the secret hydrae or whatever.

I was never under "massive fire" (lol) in this game, but some players vaguely thought I was scummy early on. As I just stated in a previous post, this normally leads me to get extremely indignant and helps me get early reads from the ensuing fallout.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Iec who do you think should be lynched, given the claims.

I think they are all town. Probably Lemniscate is the best bet. I do like her iso fairly well though. I would honestly prefer a flashwagon on a non-entity, but I guess Lemniscate is close enough to a non-entity that it bothers me less than shos or xof.

If I were not

Despite being the same slot as him, I am quite peeved at AP for basically preventing this from happening by freaking out 4 days before deadline when it was no big deal. I wish I had posted more, but I was traveling Sunday and am in classes 9-6 or so and then raid til 9 PM every day this week and then I have to prepare for the next day, so I've had to really sneak in my catch-up and posting times and have had low presence as a result, so I feel responsible for what I consider to be poor tactical choices, etc.

The situation with shos particularly pisses me off because I've read him as town all game and there was no reason for him to claim and I feel like our slot played a role in that, but I kind of went along with it anyway.

Xof gets an A for effort I guess. I would feel stupid for lynching her prematurely given the level of episodic detail in her claim. Leaving lemniscate. But I didn't really townread her until I was catching up and saw that AP had had read whiplash on her.

I am a little concerned that my annoyance at the situation is partly related to my discomfort with AP's approach to the game the previous few pages. I normally get annoyed when people read me as scum in games, and it becomes a game event for me, and then I can help get oriented. But in this game I basically agree that AP has posted things that would make any rational person kind of read it twice, so I can't have my normal reaction when someone reads us as scum. I am worried that it is messing up things.

The more I think about it the less annoyed I am about lynching lemn I guess. I am more annoyed at AP.

Sorry I love you. <3

- Iec

What non-entities would you flash-wagon?

Please literally read my post from yesterday on this topic or refer to the VC.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

It really isn't.

I mean I can understand someone finding AP's ridiculous read whiplash very distracting, but please do not post your own stupid distracting things thanks.

Distracting means when town ppl/reads have developmental disabilities.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Also I'm gonna point out how defensive your response is. How outraged and indignant

That is legit a towntell for me for reasons I most recently articulated in my response to geist above, anyway, so thanks I guess.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

[quote="In post 2490, AngryIcerink"developmental disabilities./quote]
This was inappropriate; I apologize.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

It's the only post I made/signed. I can see that it would be easy to miss in the wake of all of AP's posts pushing a wagon on townreads 4 days before deadline, though.

Unvote; Vote: TheGoat

I will vanity wagon TheGoat for 24 hours and switch to probably xof after that time passes if it hasn't taken off.

I have not discussed this with AP.

-Iec

From my POV it was my most recent post.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

(I said xof at the time because I had just aligned a lemni-town read after AP's switch and I've always read shos town.)

(And I mean AP vetoed my shos scumread ages ago while voting him slightly before that too at the end of the day.)

(So I mean, yeah. Annoying to me.)

-Iec

I also find BoP/Shroomish kinda scummy, but they are not the sort of wagon I am as comfortable flashing as I suspect they will have some kind of elaborate claim if scum.

Well, I suspect BoP will.

-Iec

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Mastin has 0 gravitas at mafia. No one even reads her posts until they have to. I am less than 0% threatened by mastin of all people scumreading me.

I think this so much that I was annoyed when AP entered the game and attempted to engage with her.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Fuck you and fuck your wagon

What are you actually referring to here?

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

It really really really bothers me when people I think/know are town appear to do things based on beliefs that are objectively probably false.

Examples: AP pushing wagons on people I thought we agreed were likely town simply due to perceived deadline crunch, you thinking that I would want to hydra with my boyfriend due to anxiety at being scumread by MASTIN (wtf?! you seriously can't think of way more likely reasons for this?!).

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Lemniscate is literally the only leading wagon that we have yet to vote.

Rhetoric aside but.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

I also find BoP/Shroomish kinda scummy, but they are not the sort of wagon I am as comfortable flashing as I suspect they will have some kind of elaborate claim if scum.

Well, I suspect BoP will.

-Iec

I was debating going for a really awesome gambit that would've had an elaborate claim, but then I falsely realized I was a miller...

Oh, I forgot that that was you.

You can be town, then. I just remembered disagreeing with AP about this, but not who it was about.

-Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Hey iece hey
Hey
Hey iece

I don't care. I want you dead

Please don't pretend to make arguments, then, or at least don't make them poorly. It is distracting to players who are actually trying to ascertain other players' alignments.

-Iec