Mini 1657 — Taylor Swift UPick — Game Over

[Aristophanes]

Hey Everyone!
Sorry I hadn't been here yet. Weekends I work a shit tonne and am usually pretty much V/LA for.

Endless Possibilities seems to be trying to get in Bookitty's good book.

soren is town. discuss

Because he spotted and commented on your shameless buddying?

I saw all that as obviously RVS playfulness, not shameless buddying.
Soren & Bookitty, what makes this buddying? It was just the posted picture, right?
Soren, do you get anything alignment indicative from EP's apparent buddying on Boo and yourself?

Piesonic, is your doublevote permanent or just for today as well?

Vote: Not_Mafia

Espionage, how did you know it was EP and not Lucian that was the doublevoter?
At the time of this post I see no way to have known that information.

Also, EST is my timezone. I saw someone (Soren?) ask that.

@MOD:

Could we have a gentle and kind prod on Aristophanes and Om of the Nom, please?

In other news, I'm pretty sure Endless Possibilities is town. Soren too.

Easy does it. I'm here!

[Aristophanes]

Why are a bunch of votes popping up on Lucian? Haven't seen anything scummy from that spot

[Aristophanes]

Soren is town as shit, Bookitty is probably town.

Can you elaborate on these reads please? What gives you town reads on them?
Does their recent butting of heads change this for you?

<snip>
do you have any scum reads at this point?

Slight read on Esp.
Slightly stronger read on Anti.
And the weirdest read on Elyse.

Wait, what kind of reads do you have on these guys?
I get that you think Anti scummy, right?

Was ESP a scum read too or a town read?

[Okay, so it was a scum read. What changed this, other than losing steam?]
Also, I don't think you ever elaborated on that read.
You kinda explained what your "weird read" was, but never said which alignment it was being attributed to.

Who do you think is scummy, Aristophanes?

I could see Soren being overly-active scum. He's said an awful lot, but his posts are mostly devoid of content. I had liked his tone while reading through originally, but on a reread he just seems to be floating by.
Also, pulling at something from RVS when we're 7 pages in is a little ridiculous and, as you pointed out, really had no point to it. Why not try to make conversation around something newer that might actually get a read?
Also, he followed it up with the following:

<snip>

Your question to me, however, I feel okay about answering. If you go back (way back) in the game and ask people (including me) about a post that is clearly a RVS joke, they're going to think you're reaching pretty far.

Okay I didn't really realise that it was a joke per se. I just found it odd and didn't really give it any further thought, thus I questioned it.

And I must have overlooked it or didn't really care about it in the beginning, thus I haven't said anything till now.

<snip>

What did you gain from my answer?

To understand if it really was a RVS vote.

Why did it matter that my vote on Not Mafia was OMGUS?

Because it shows a negative reaction to a simple RVS vote on you.
<snip>

In the first quote, he admits he didn't think it was a joke, and earlier seemed to not notice it was RVS.
He then goes on about how he was trying to figure out if it was RVS and make a negative read of you from it.
Seems contradictory, like scum weaving tales.

VOTE: Soren

Ninja'd I think, will read.

[Aristophanes]

Wait, why are people voting Boo again??
I don't get it...

[Aristophanes]

Oh, I'm just dumb and missed that.
Why does the "weirdness" from Elyse inspire a scum read? Wouldn't scum try to blend in a little better?

Also, you didn't really say why the vote on Boo.
Your post 152 doesn't really explain much other than an associative read with others who may or may not be scum. Wouldn't that kind of logic be better after we get a flip?

[Aristophanes]

That was then, but this is now.

Also, why not use that logic for lynching Boo right now?
I already have three scumreads.
Anti
Boo
Elyse

All three of them appear to be connected in someway or another, and none of them have voted for each other.

I mean, I think this logic is okay to note, but to scumread people based on it feels an awful lot like you're setting up lynches for later by connecting people now.
Like I say, without a flip to confirm one of them is scum, how can we scumread others based on it?

Plus, there are other reasons why they might defend each other or seem linked without being scummates.
It just seems like a stretch to me, especially D1.

[Aristophanes]

@Aristo In regards to scum "blending in," that's kind of wine-ish, but it is rooted in a common strategy.
Sorry, I thought you didn't read my post so I brought it up without elaboration.

pedit: What do you mean? When you scumread people, don't you make logical connections with the other people you scumread? If you want to out scum, you have to find those connections early so they don't disappear later. I connected all the people I currently scumread for different reasons because it was simple, and seemed like a simple thing to do. You don't need a scum flip to "confirm" one of them as scum in order to form cohesive scum reads on the others. Plus, I'm trying to lynch one of my reads right now, if they flip scum, then the rest will be easy.

Well, if it seems like a stretch, then you might want to blame it on nearly half the roster having less posts than the mod. I don't have a ton to go at the moment, and we aren't making a ton of progress.

Yeah, this is a bit of a quiet group. Sorry for being a part of that.

It's all well and good to look for connections. I just think at this point they aren't substantial enough to link a full scum team.
Plus, how often have you played a game where in D1 you can see obvious scum links and actually had them hold true?

I'm talking in circles I think, and this isn't really helping the game, so I'll stop.
I'm curious how strongly linked you feel these three are. If you get a scum flip from one today, will the others be definite scum to you?
If a town flip, does that absolve them of their guilt?
Basically, how interconnected are these three reads for you?

[Aristophanes]

Aristophanes
Empking
The Bulge

All three haven't voted each other. I found the scumteam guys.

Dat snark! lol

[Aristophanes]

@Aristo

, my scum reads day one are weird.
If one of them flips scum, I might pursue the others, that being the logical thing to do.
If one of the flips scum, I might not scum read the others as much.

Really, what I'm trying to do is to link together scumminess in order for our chances of lynching scum being higher. I've found connections among three people, and I scum read all three of them. The odds of lynching scum increase this way as well.

Okay, I can respect that.
[Also, I assume you mean "If one flips town" in the third line there?]

It just seemed like you made the link and were thus scumreading them rather than the other way around.
After reading your reasoning about 10 times I started to get it a but more.

[Aristophanes]

Hey all! I'm back!

I'll read up and see what I can do.

I see Anti is pretty close to lynch, but also hasn't been here.
Are these things related or did he do something before disappearing that was scummy?

[Aristophanes]

I've not read back much and for that I apologize.

I have limited meta with most players here but from what I can see Anti is just dodging any commitment in this game.
In the meta I have (and apparently a few others as well) Anti is way more active and forthcoming as town.

We've only got a few days left so
VOTE: Anti.

Honestly unsure how much I can be here for the next bit, but I shall do my best!

[Aristophanes]

Shit, I haven't posted yet today...
I'll do that right soon.

[Aristophanes]

I will he here tonight. I promise.
So so sorry for my activity levels here

[Aristophanes]

Wait, why are people voting DLA and Ika? I don't get it!

I'm kidding.

I totally agree with Boo here and don't honestly see why everyone is saying the vote reason is so shitty.
In Dawn on Arrival Ika clearly displayed the lurkerscum tendency, and is clearly doing a similar thing here. Boo and many others mentioned this, including Mollie, who Boo has quoted here. I like this wagon.
VOTE: Ika

Espionage
I haven't been active lurking at all. I've literally not checked the thread. At all.
What is your actual case on me!?
I see that you think I'm scummy for active lurking without a reason, you then say that my having a reason would be irrelevant. It makes zero sense.
Also, as I said, I don't see why Boo is scummy, nor why her activity has warranted a vote.

I see people questioning how I could vote Anti on meta reasons without having read the last bit of the thread.
He had been doing this same shit all through the day phase, and I did a very quick skim to see if it had changed in what little time I had.
We caught scum, so I'm happy with the outcome.

Here's a readslist, since apparently I have been unclear and stuff.
Strong Town-lean: Bookitty, EP, KillJester, Lucian
Town-lean: Elyse, Soren
Null: Empking
Light Scum-lean: DLA, NotMafia
Scum-lean: Ika, Espionage

[Aristophanes]

I mean, I don't think he intends to hammer himself.
The "Two more votes" post I thought was directed at myself, as in he would hammer whoever got to L-1.
Whether this extends to himself or not I don't know, but I have my doubts.

[Aristophanes]

I can only assume you completely ignored my case because I'm right.

What, that I was busy and didn't get why there were wagons on people I had strong townreads on?
That I then asked for explanations?

What, in my presence here, has led you to think I am lurking and not just a busy guy?
If I had had time to read all the cases, dissect the wagons, and respond, I would have. This was not the case.

If being busy is scummy, then lynch me now as I'm going to be busy most of this game apparently.

[Aristophanes]

Ika, dafuq even.
I Iso'd your few posts and have no clue what you're getting at.

[Aristophanes]

Antihero really shouldn't be being wagoned right now anyway, because most of the case is based on meta and disinterest, neither of which are good reasons to wagon someone. Voting has never been good motivator and I have never understood why people think it is.

I have to read the next few pages, so sorry if this was asked/answered already.
But is this supposed to show the difference I people's reactions between the Anti and Ika lynches? What does it tell us?
Or did you just say the wrong name?

[Aristophanes]

I've read up and am currently torn on the lynch options.
How sure are we that Ika is scum? This recent bit makes me really wary.
Ika, voting would be helpful to know where you're at. Are you against all the lynch options at this point? If so, who would be the best vote?
Is informed scum common on this site?

UNVOTE:

[Aristophanes]

Ohey! A Wagon!

I had no intention of making everyone else do the work for me...those were legitimate questions.
I found myself doubting Ika as scum post-claim.
Also, him voting would have been helpful and I am legitimately unsure how common Informed Scum is on this site.

I'm here for a bit, got anything you wanted to shoot at me?

[Aristophanes]

[ skip to next votecount ]

It hasn't really changed much from before tbh. I have kept up, but not really read back on anyone recently.

Espionage and Not Mafia are still the most likely scum from where I'm sitting.
I don't remember anything from Empking, so I'd definitely have to Iso to see where he stands.

[Aristophanes]

Can I get a quick readlist from you Aris. I would like it to have no explainations for any of the reads but I want it done immediately as you read this without overly thinking about it. This is not a trap of any kind if you have to put people in null then do it. We can go on from there.

I have yet to read past this point, but I just got here.

Town Lean: KJ, EP, LR, DLA, Boo
Null: Empking, Soren
Scum Lean: Not Mafia, Espionage

These reads vary in strength but are in their general categories.
Sorry for quick post.

[Aristophanes]

Whoa, I'm at L-1!?
I guess I should have seen that coming.

Hey all,
You're about to lynch your Town Compulsive Weak Informed Faith Healer.

That was why I unvoted Ika. I figured since faith healers have a 50/50 chance of healing, town might have two.

I know LR is town because I targetted him N1 and, being weak myself, survived it.
I tried to save Elyse last night, to no avail.

[Aristophanes]

I think we should just popcorn massclaim

Do I have to say someone? I have never popcorned before...

[Aristophanes]

Cool, then popcorn Not Mafia.
Is your name true?

[Aristophanes]

I can do that KJ
Will target Empking tonight!
I hadn't thought about how I could be used as a pseudo-cop, but I love it! brilliant!

Why did I choose Elyse?
She was a townread for me and had been pretty vocal on the Ika lynch while not really standing out too much overall.
Seemed like a target scum would go for, especially in the early nights of the game.

Waiting for EP to return, and I think Soren just stated intent, yes?

[Aristophanes]

You'll have the result that I'm town tomorrow. Lynching me today is dumb!

I did target Emp, and DLA, and am still alive, so they're cool.

Are you sure it's not one of the masons that's scum? Or is that too unlikely?

[Aristophanes]

I can indeed target kj tn.

Are we nolynching?

[Aristophanes]

Who do you think is scum Aris

I mean, I've visited everyone else, so it has to be either yourself or KJ, add NM if we're assuming a godfather, as he's cleared by KJ not myself.

I can't see KJ being possible, so I'd have to imagine it's one of the masonic pair.

[Aristophanes]

Because we're masons

Do you have a better solution here?

[Aristophanes]

Dodge which question, this one?

Are you scum Aris?

Because no, I'm not.
I figured that was rhetorical.

[Aristophanes]

Needing the reiterate that you're not scum twice sounds like you have something to hide.

Also how in the world did you interpret it as a rhetorical question? Or is actually the case that you didn't want to answer it?

How is answering the question you accused me of dodging construed as reiterating that I am not scum and likely have something to hide?

If I'd answered it at any point, regardless of alignment my answer would be the same. I don't see the point in this line of questioning.

[Aristophanes]

Do you even philosophise Aristophanes

I have been known to, yes

[Aristophanes]

Thoughts on Plato's symposium?

A wonderful read which I have recommended to many friends! My copy is currently lent out in fact.

Aristophanes' part was by far the most entertaining, but many had very good points to them.
Plato was great at portraying the characters of the various philosophers.

[Aristophanes]

We're not investigating a mason

I don't see why not...

[Aristophanes]

Would you inspect an Innocent Child?

Innocent Child is mod confirmed. You are you.

[Aristophanes]

Also, does No-Lynch count as a person in regards to voting? Is there a hammer associated with this, or does it have to be a unanimous decision?

If majority is reached a NL happens.

Also, VOTE: NL

[Aristophanes]

Emp was conf'd when I targeted him last night

[Aristophanes]

Emp was conf'd when I targeted him last night

Edit, 2 nights ago*
DLA was last night.
Didnt get to talk in the phase in between, my bad. Lol

[Aristophanes]

VOTE: NL

[Aristophanes]

That's what we call an optimist.

Well done for not giving up though, sincerely.

Haha thanks guys

Would anyone believe me if I said I was RB'd?

[Aristophanes]

Also, yumm? Fried chicken!

[Aristophanes]

I'll be home soon to share my thoughts, but for now...

Marquis, Amazing game!
I will echo that the flavour was fantastic and the stories, Serenity, were awesome!
One of the most fun games I've played!

Obviously KJ for town MVP.
I nearly shit myself when you started on me. That scumread you found was exactly perfect and I had to change it up asap.
If not for Ika's flip I'd have been boned.

Why'd it take so long to target me for the cop read?

[Aristophanes]

Huh, why would scum flip with a town version of their role?

They wouldn't.
It was a fakeclaim.

If I'd had any brains I'd have left the "weak" modifier out of my claim. I'd still have died, but maybe not so soon (not until I was I investigated probably).
Even if the invest had not happened at this point, it would be me or the masons as unconf, and I mean, masons...

[Aristophanes]

Okie dokie, here I am with some extended thoughts!

I know I shouldn't have claimed "weak". I panicked in the moment and it was my downfall.
The scum team had a lot of potential, but it never came to fruition. I'm sorry we were all minimally active.
I know that I, for one, was legitimately busy and posted whenever I could. I would never lurk, regardless of alignment, because it detracts from everyone's fun.

I knew I was dead yesterday when I was the night investigation. I considered just claiming and self-voting, but I couldn't take this game from you guys. Town was legitimately amazing and KJ was so on point that I felt I would be robbing you all of a well earned victory if I had.

If I'd gained that night kill, I may have had a longer run, but oh well. I can see why the modifier was nerfed and it makes a lot of sense. You did a great job trying to keep the balance Marquis!
And if anything I post sounds like me being bummed, it's not over townplay or the setup, but just me beating myself up over details a bit. I like to learn and grow in these games, but have a bad habit of losing it all (If you ever play with me and are scum, keep my in LyLo for the win ).

KJ, as I said, that read was spot on, as were most of yours throughout the game! I am extremely impressed!

Great game to all! The cat-and-mouse was invigorating

Now to read these threads you linked.

[Aristophanes]

Do you by any chance talk to Plotinus from this site, Aris?

I have yet to come across him(?) actually.
Should I?

[Aristophanes]

Do you by any chance talk to Plotinus from this site, Aris?

I have yet to come across him(?) actually.
Should I?

Oh he's just another greek philosopher head so I thought you may have spoken with him.

Haha not so far, but if ever I do, I hope it is glorious!

[Aristophanes]

Thanks Lucian!

Fun fact for you all
Had Ika lived through D2, I'd have died because I figured he was town once he claimed. I was floored that he too was scum!

You never know how the cookie will crumble in these games.

Also, @Marquis
Lemme know next time you host!
I would love to play another setup of yours