Newbie 1625: American Spring - Day 5 (DL - 08/31)

[StubbsKVM]

That's the shortest RVS I've ever seen.

I'm leaning town on notscience.

VeeGee, do you have any mafia experience?

[StubbsKVM]

Thoughts?

I'm not a newbie.

Does green mean "town" and is yellow "null"? On your read of Joram, you say: no reason to think scum. However, you give no reason for reading him town.

Other than that, I am amazed at how fast you develop reads.

[StubbsKVM]

StubbsKVM

NEWB shines through this slot, marking hesitantly as town

What makes you think he's a one? Why would that make him more likely to be town?

Honestly, his random chime in asking about experience is something I have only seen from a player who will attempt to justify a lynch. I hate when people try to make a claim based off. Its an annoying newbie thing to do, although he is kinda lurking so im watching him at this point.

I asked about his experience because I wanted to relate it to notscience's criticism about the "Hello" post.
Most people just come in and Random vote. So NS is right about the "nervous" entrance.
However, as he admitted being new, this probably means nothing.

[StubbsKVM]

Thespio-
Re: Veegee- Why would scum be stressed after 2 votes in RVS, the second of which everyone else jumps on? In fact, he had a very subdued 'yeah, what he said' comment after it. That looks rather stressed.

Nah, he didnt freak out, so it wont strike against him.

Re: Me- Sharing reasons for voting someone makes me scummy? And being defensive is null, it's a matter of playstyle. But, whatever.

This 'Playstyle' is anti-town, and also unproductive, so more scum then town.

re: Akuseru- Why do you keep calling it a random lynch? I've repeatedly stated my vote is serious. What about his play seems "genuinely town" and what makes you think hes only scum if veegee is scum?

I said if he is scum so is veegee, not the other way around, he jumped to veegee's safety immediately, he is also more cautious which is pro town.

Re Micc: "too calm?" He only has his generic IC intro and a promsie to catch up. I don't see how this can even be a thing.

Are you vouching for him? because i didnt call him scum, but his posts make me nervous, more gut feeling than anything, as I stated.

If you arent opposed to HenryCabotLodge then lynching him shouldnt be an issue.

more cautious is pro town? Doesn't scum tend to be more afraid of being lynched, and therefore more cautious?

[StubbsKVM]

Veegee reads? anyone wanna actually post reads?

can you respond to 46 please?

[StubbsKVM]

@Akuseru, what are your scum reads so far?

Don't really have any definite scum reads atm, tbh . I've been excusing (what I consider) a couple of scum slips as possible newbie behaviour. Hopefully, as they post more, I can make a better decision on where they lie (ie: Mafia or Just New).


I would also appreciate it if StubbsKVM would post more. I was kinda disappointed when, after a wait, you only posted some comments and disappeared again.


@VeeGee: You're lacking in presence, dear.

I was also disappointed that Thespio had completely ignored all of my points. This raises a few question marks... Care to comment on it, Thespio?

[StubbsKVM]

Thoughts?

I'm not a newbie.

Does green mean "town" and is yellow "null"? On your read of Joram, you say: no reason to think scum. However, you give no reason for reading him town.

Other than that, I am amazed at how fast you develop reads.

Yellow is suspicious, red is bad, Green is nuetral.

Thanks, I think.

which color is town?

[StubbsKVM]

Generally yea, but caution is only a sign of scum when they shift to it when under pressure.

I did...

you did. I am posting as I read through, so if I look back, I can see what I was thinking at that time.

Anyway, I think the case on Henry is a bit thin, but considering there is not much else going on, I suppose it's fine for now.

However, Joram makes some really questionable posts. I think he's not yet fully aware of this site's habits though, so I will play nice.

UNVOTE: notscience

im not gonna vote untill i see something thats really scummy/suspicious my vote on not science was because he voted on someone for no reason at all. but my vote should probably have been on HCL

vote tags fixed - f

Why have you not commented about anything HCL had done up to this post. Even in this post, you're mentioning your vote should have been on HCL, but you don't even say why.
Additionally, you unvote notscience. Why? Is it because of his posts, or because he wasn't "scummy enough to vote"?

After this post, you start discrediting HCL, but it still takes quite a long time before you effectively vote for him. Why didn't you switch your vote to him in this post?

[StubbsKVM]

I can think of a 5 letter answer~

Scum is 4 letters... what is are the 5 letters?

OMGUS

[StubbsKVM]

Oh My God You Suck
(Redirected from Omgus)
OMGUS stands for "Oh My God, You Suck (for voting for me)!". it is sometimes used as a shorthand to indicate that you are voting for someone primarily because they voted for you.
Why Do This?

It can be used as an "excuse" for a Random Vote near the beginning of the game, or as a retaliation when someone is close to being lynched, as a vent against the frustration (even if the player being voted for has no reasonable chance of being Lynched).
Occasionally a Scum player will use it to cover a strategic vote, feigning outrage to get someone else closer to a lynch.

For the newbies, this is from the wiki page.

VeeGee, why are you voting NS?

[StubbsKVM]

VOTE: HenryCabotLodge No but everyone focusing on you allows people to lurk, you still have no actual reads, just generalizing someone who is clearly town as town. You are indecisive, change opinions like none other. If you want me to support your lynch then thats fine I will, the only reason you have to vote me is because I unvoted you? Thats fine, D1 Lynch will be you or I, because at this point you are a hindrance to town, and I dont see you ever helping because your view changes with the wind.

Can you explain the "change opinions" part? I don't see it.
Your push for a policy lynch is pretty bad, especially because this is a newbie game. We're on page 5, give him some time to get in the game and develop some reads.

[StubbsKVM]

I personally feel like thespio and HCL are both town. At this point, I find it more likely that scum is amongst veegee, stoz, notscience, StubbsKVM, and Micc.

You did not include Joram in your scumlist, doest this mean you are townreading him, or have you simply forgotten him?

[StubbsKVM]

So i read through all the posts. I voted for HCL cause i dont trust him. He started the game with a random vote but later on tells us that he thinks random votes and bandwaggons are bad and should not happen. so he changed his opinion on random votes in 2 pages time.

Also im playing a newbie game cause this is my very first game. i dont know a lot about maffia and came here to learn. some help would be amazing instead of omg he is guilty cause he didnt do this little thing like all other players do. I dont know how maffia is being played on this site. i still need to learn all of that. so sorry if i dont do things like you guys want me to..

Joram, can you respond to my previous post please:

Generally yea, but caution is only a sign of scum when they shift to it when under pressure.

I did...

you did. I am posting as I read through, so if I look back, I can see what I was thinking at that time.

Anyway, I think the case on Henry is a bit thin, but considering there is not much else going on, I suppose it's fine for now.

However, Joram makes some really questionable posts. I think he's not yet fully aware of this site's habits though, so I will play nice.

UNVOTE: notscience

im not gonna vote untill i see something thats really scummy/suspicious my vote on not science was because he voted on someone for no reason at all. but my vote should probably have been on HCL

vote tags fixed - f

Why have you not commented about anything HCL had done up to this post. Even in this post, you're mentioning your vote should have been on HCL, but you don't even say why.
Additionally, you unvote notscience. Why? Is it because of his posts, or because he wasn't "scummy enough to vote"?

After this post, you start discrediting HCL, but it still takes quite a long time before you effectively vote for him. Why didn't you switch your vote to him in this post?

[StubbsKVM]

Thing is, there isn't much fixation on HCL (besides thespio), and he could have let his vote remain on you as he analyzed/question/or accuse other players. Further more his actions don't dictate the rest of us, so he doesn't have to take his vote off just so WE can direct our attentions to others. I'm leaning more towards that being just the way he plays (new?).

I was right though, all talk of veegee and other lurkers/afks have been dropped while we examine HCL and accusers. Its not that im new i just see that this is the way we are shifting. Though looking at HCL's previous part game, he plays just about the same now as he did in that game, and in that game he was town. While its not a good way to play, shifting views so freely, it seems on par to his previous town play. What are your guys thoughts on the other less active players?

VOTE: VeeGee

Let's do this then?

[StubbsKVM]

VOTE: VeeGee

Let's do this then?

Is that a policy lynch? Or are there reasons you think he is scum?

Thing is, there isn't much fixation on HCL (besides thespio), and he could have let his vote remain on you as he analyzed/question/or accuse other players. Further more his actions don't dictate the rest of us, so he doesn't have to take his vote off just so WE can direct our attentions to others. I'm leaning more towards that being just the way he plays (new?).

I was right though, all talk of veegee and other lurkers/afks have been dropped while we examine HCL and accusers. Its not that im new i just see that this is the way we are shifting. Though looking at HCL's previous part game, he plays just about the same now as he did in that game, and in that game he was town. While its not a good way to play, shifting views so freely, it seems on par to his previous town play. What are your guys thoughts on the other less active players?

VOTE: VeeGee

Let's do this then?

if you want to jump to lynching thats fine but I was more wondering what your opinion on him is.

Prod Request: Veegee

There's nothing to read. Maybe some votes will get this guy talking.

[StubbsKVM]

@Micc: I'm not pushing for a lynch, I'm pushing for content.

You might start giving us some reads yourself.

HCL and NS are in my townpile.

Bulbazoor's entrance is okay, but not getting those warm fuzzy feelings yet.

I want to see more from Joram, but I fear he has abandoned the game.

UNVOTE:

for now

[StubbsKVM]

@Micc: I'm not pushing for a lynch, I'm pushing for content.

You might start giving us some reads yourself.

HCL and NS are in my townpile.

Bulbazoor's entrance is okay, but not getting those warm fuzzy feelings yet.

I want to see more from Joram, but I fear he has abandoned the game.

UNVOTE:

for now

So you voted in order to pressure the slot when it was empty, but now that the player has been replaced you unvote and remove the pressure? Hows that make sense?

Ill post reads as i have them. Ive hardly done any real analysis besides having posts I like and posts I dont. It wont all come together until i do a better read through.

Bulba already posted and I am not scumreading the slot, why do I need to keep voting?

[StubbsKVM]

i want to know why youre answering questions that aren't addressed to you.

because it's a waste of time, he just said it.

I already explained my vote and why I retracted it. Are you going to actually scumhunt this game or are you going to keep asking questions that have already been answered?

VOTE: Joram

Third time: Answer my question please...

[StubbsKVM]

Thing is, there isn't much fixation on HCL (besides thespio), and he could have let his vote remain on you as he analyzed/question/or accuse other players. Further more his actions don't dictate the rest of us, so he doesn't have to take his vote off just so WE can direct our attentions to others. I'm leaning more towards that being just the way he plays (new?).

I was right though, all talk of veegee and other lurkers/afks have been dropped while we examine HCL and accusers. Its not that im new i just see that this is the way we are shifting. Though looking at HCL's previous part game, he plays just about the same now as he did in that game, and in that game he was town. While its not a good way to play, shifting views so freely, it seems on par to his previous town play. What are your guys thoughts on the other less active players?

VOTE: VeeGee

Let's do this then?

VOTE: VeeGee

Let's do this then?

Is that a policy lynch? Or are there reasons you think he is scum?

Thing is, there isn't much fixation on HCL (besides thespio), and he could have let his vote remain on you as he analyzed/question/or accuse other players. Further more his actions don't dictate the rest of us, so he doesn't have to take his vote off just so WE can direct our attentions to others. I'm leaning more towards that being just the way he plays (new?).

I was right though, all talk of veegee and other lurkers/afks have been dropped while we examine HCL and accusers. Its not that im new i just see that this is the way we are shifting. Though looking at HCL's previous part game, he plays just about the same now as he did in that game, and in that game he was town. While its not a good way to play, shifting views so freely, it seems on par to his previous town play. What are your guys thoughts on the other less active players?

VOTE: VeeGee

Let's do this then?

if you want to jump to lynching thats fine but I was more wondering what your opinion on him is.

Prod Request: Veegee

There's nothing to read. Maybe some votes will get this guy talking.

How did I not explain my vote?

[StubbsKVM]

In case my phone posting isn't clear...

Stubbs is scummy because he hasn't been able to explain what he was trying to accomplish by voting Vegee. The only explination I can think of is that it was a popular opinion at the time and that he wanted to blend in and look busy. All things I find scummy.

Really? My post literally says "maybe some votes will get this guy talking".

[StubbsKVM]

Anyway, this entire thing is just not going anywhere and is not moving this game forward. So I'm moving on. Fortunately, I don't need Micc's approval to play my own way.

Joram, are you going to start playing the game or are you going to keep providing 0 content throughout this entire game?(yes Micc, I checked when he last visited this time, so I don't get yelled at again)

Akuseru, do you have any scumreads?

HCL, where are you??

[StubbsKVM]

Micc's accusation is that I've not explained my vote. I have quoted my reasoning. I don't really see the point in having this discussion over and over again.

I don't see any question I've missed, which one are you talking about, Thespio?

Next:

Bulbazoor: I am "he". Thanks. Do you consider not answering questions "noob plays"? Why?

[StubbsKVM]

my vote was on VeeGee before he was even prodded... So I'm not allowed to vote anyone for posting no content, unless he has posted within the last 24 hours. Is that what you're saying?
This argument is ridiculous.

Akuseru, who are your scumreads and why?

[StubbsKVM]

I mean it would fit if you found that sort of stuff scummy, but you wernt scum reading the slot, so it doesn't make sense to vote.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then.

[StubbsKVM]

"The kind of defence [stoz] would expect to see from town" O_O? For someone so big on clarification, one would imagine you’d be appalled at StubbsKVM’s No-I-don’t-want-to-elaborate behaviour.

Tell me how I don't want to elaborate.

[StubbsKVM]

I don't see any question I've missed, which one are you talking about, Thespio?

NVM I see where u answered it, sorry, why are you all still drilling him? It seems like he has reasoning behind his vote, pressure to cause a statement from veegee, what about that is inadequate?

Are we gonna ignore the fact that Akuseru says he has reads but wont post them...?

StubbsKVM:

Spoiler:

Leaning scum, quick to vote, slow to answer questions.

thoughts?

This doesn't add up. First you admitted I already gave reasoning, now you're scumreading me for not answering. Please explain.

[StubbsKVM]

And i see reads from akuseru so im not sure what you issue there is either. As far as i remember he never actually dodged a question about what his reads were.

Akuseru, do you have any scumreads?

I do.

I understand you want to move on, but when will you address Micc's accusation?

Yes he did.

[StubbsKVM]

This doesn't add up. First you admitted I already gave reasoning, now you're scumreading me for not answering. Please explain.

U answered it, it just took a while, and im not scum reading you, or you would be red, im just cautious of you.

What do you mean it took a while? The only thing that took a while is you seeing it.

[StubbsKVM]

And i see reads from akuseru so im not sure what you issue there is either. As far as i remember he never actually dodged a question about what his reads were.

Akuseru, do you have any scumreads?

I do.

I understand you want to move on, but when will you address Micc's accusation?

Yes he did.

Do you not consider post 206 to be a post of what his reads are?

I do, but I had to ask again, after he failed to give them.

[StubbsKVM]

Tell me how I don't want to elaborate.

Okay, lets review what happened:

Spoiler:

Im more curious to know

why you voted

in the first place. Can you

explain why you bothered pressuring the slot when it was empty if you didn't see it as scummy?

I already explained my vote

All you've said was you voted to "get [Veegee] talking". Micc is clearly asking you to explain why you wanted to get Veegee talking, but you refuse to elaborate by clearly dodging his question.

No you haven't explained why you made the vote in the first place

. From your recent posts I have gathered that you are not scum reading the slot. I don't understand what the point of pressuring an empty slot to post is, if you don't actually find that sort of thing scummy.

How did I not explain my vote?

You then post your quote once more. You didn't have to repeat yourself; Micc got you the first time. He understands you voted Veegee to get him to post. By repeating this answer, you've been dodging the underlying issue: Why did you want Veegee of all people to post?

---------------------------------------------------------------

@StubbsKVM: you could have easily answered that question with anything. I can personally come up with a couple of reasons why a townie would want to vote Veegee, however I can only guess what's going on in your mind. Even HCL came up with a possible reason:

I can see Stubbs' reasoning for the vote. The game was at a standstill and there were a lot of lurkers. He didn't necessarily scumread VeeGee, but the lurking was irksome and putting some pressure on him wasn't a bad way to get somebody in the game who hadn't said much yet but was still in an interesting (remember VeeGee was the subject of the first bandwagon).

^StubbsKVM, if that was the reason, you could have posted something along those lines to appease Micc. But you didn't. Instead you drew out the interaction by repeating the same answer (disregarding the different questions/requests for elaboration) and making it appear that Micc keeps asking you the same question resulting in a unproductive back and forth.


My analysis:

1. If you voted for Veegee because it was the popular opinion at the time:
- Town would just answer with the truth. Townies don't self-regulate as mafia do, because they don't have to worry about accidently scum slipping.
- Scum (imo) know that if they gave that answer, their action might somehow be associated with mafia. They're more likely to go that extra mile to distance themselves from anything that can possibly shed a negative light on them.

StubbsKVM,

1. You chose not to answer.
2. You also didn't acknowledge or dispute any of Micc's implications surrounding you (repeating your incomplete answer doesn't count).
3. You drew out the interaction by repeating the same answer - this makes the exchange seem pointless, making it more acceptable for you to...
4. ...direct the conversation away from this topic.

See what I mean by going the extra mile?

Okay, I can see where this went wrong. Read Micc's first question: "Why did you vote?". I did not read "Why did you want to get VeeGee talking?", because that's not what he asked.
Then the second time, he says "No, you haven't explained why you voted?". He does not ask "Why do you want to get VeeGee talking?"

But fair enough, I'll play along.

VOTE: VeeGee

Let's do this then?

Is that a policy lynch? Or are there reasons you think he is scum?

Thing is, there isn't much fixation on HCL (besides thespio), and he could have let his vote remain on you as he analyzed/question/or accuse other players. Further more his actions don't dictate the rest of us, so he doesn't have to take his vote off just so WE can direct our attentions to others. I'm leaning more towards that being just the way he plays (new?).

I was right though, all talk of veegee and other lurkers/afks have been dropped while we examine HCL and accusers. Its not that im new i just see that this is the way we are shifting. Though looking at HCL's previous part game, he plays just about the same now as he did in that game, and in that game he was town. While its not a good way to play, shifting views so freely, it seems on par to his previous town play. What are your guys thoughts on the other less active players?

VOTE: VeeGee

Let's do this then?

if you want to jump to lynching thats fine but I was more wondering what your opinion on him is.

Prod Request: Veegee

There's nothing to read. Maybe some votes will get this guy talking.

Both Thespio and stoz(see bolded questions) ask for my read on VeeGee and why I am voting him.

I immediately explain my vote. And I give my read(nothing to read=null).

So if you haven't figured it out:
Why did I want to get VeeGee talking? Because he wasn't contributing anything.(as there was nothing to read!)

[StubbsKVM]

Well, I fell asleep yesterday before I was able to get online. Whoops . I apologise!

anyway, to the game!

StubbsKVM, you asked me if I have any reads and I gave you the answer: "I do".
What do you mean by you had to ask "again"? When was the first time? Where have I failed to give reads when asked?

I don't know how you would read this question, but to me it sounds like micc wanted you to explain why you wanted to get Veegee talking

Well then. Looks like you didn't understand what I was asking and I didn't understand what Micc was asking. You said it yourself: "To me it sounds like". Well to me it doesn't.

However, I'm not sure why you're telling ME this

Because everybody has moved on, but you still keep going on about it.

Town-
Jora

You're going to need to explain this. I can't believe nobody else asked for this.

That's L-1.

And joram's above post bugs me.

notscience, stop reading my mind

Stoz, any last words? sorry if your town but you played pretty bad so far.

This also bothered me. But I like Thespio's push on Joram in 322

I still think he is town. Do not judge him because of other sites.... judge him as a newbie in his first newbie game.

This needs to die if Joram flips scum.

Thespio goes from "I can lynch both Joram and Stoz" to "I'm not lynching either of them" and starts pushing for a lynch on notscience. Looks like he's stalling the game.

Ill answer the question when i have time to look through 350 posts so ill probably look at this when this game turn to night and post it day 2

Oh come on... How is he still alive? He isn't even attempting to cover up his lies.

[StubbsKVM]

of course you'll apologise when caught on a lie.

VT claim is a safe claim. It doesn't mean I have to believe it though.

[StubbsKVM]

I have asked to be replaced, as I am really having trouble keeping up. Sorry...