Large Normal 247 - Day 5

[Thomith]

Dave put Snow at E-1 between 1.01 and 1.02

[Gypyx]

It was more of the people's reactions but sure, thanks

[Gypyx]

Greetings,

It has a major distaste for the idea that this thread was comfortable with putting a player at one vote to elimination prior to that player having ever posted. It is especially concerned with this from Dave, given that Dave was present for a quick hammer in quite literally a game that ended just yesterday. It feels like Dave can and should be more sensitive to that, and so must have truly wished to kill a player before a single post.

Dave, for what purpose?

for instance (was reading obv iso and this flashed up to me) this is a really weird post to open with considering the flips we've had now

[Thomith]

Greetings,

It has a major distaste for the idea that this thread was comfortable with putting a player at one vote to elimination prior to that player having ever posted. It is especially concerned with this from Dave, given that Dave was present for a quick hammer in quite literally a game that ended just yesterday. It feels like Dave can and should be more sensitive to that, and so must have truly wished to kill a player before a single post.

Dave, for what purpose?

for instance (was reading obv iso and this flashed up to me) this is a really weird post to open with considering the flips we've had now

Do we think it would immediately throw a scumbuddy under the bus like this? Just to look like it was trying to solve?

[Gypyx]

Ah yes, Ranger is topping the post charts with such hit posts as "Yet another list of names in which they change the order slightly without commenting on what altered the order in any fashion, allowing them to appear to come to a natural conclusion when in reality it can be used as a way to cover their intentions".

It honestly thinks that there is no surprise in this user moving it towards the bottom of their rankings after it indicated it had no reason to work with them and no good will to give them. These "reads" feel like they are fabricated to suit an agenda, so it just doesn't buy what they are selling.

In other words, it strongly feels like Ranger replaced into a scumslot and decided "I am the best scum player in this game, I must visable effort and escape this, and then we'll win for sure!" and so now Ranger has been posting ad naseum to Counter Signal themselves as scum. "Look how town I am, I'm the only one providing content! Look how powerful and useful I am!" It just feels like we're watching them put on a performance for our benefit and not one that actually solves or does anything of note or interest. Nothing that can't be faked, no actual interrogation of any player on their thoughts, just a soulless catchup that contains exactly 0 indicators of what Ranger's thoughts are, so if they are asked anything they can simply fabricate, but the gamestate is apathetic and dead so they probably suspect no one is going to challenge them.

It is of the opinion these actions are the actions of scum with a goal, the goal it described above, and that town would have come in seeking to work with others and solve, even if they were going to die, and get other players back in the game.

In the end, Lycanfire at least showed some desire to engage with it. It struggles to do so, but Lycanfire clearly wants town cohesion and growth.

Ranger was told that this manner of playing was harming the town and simply barreled through, because their goal IS the apathy.

Like, it can see it already, right? Closed setup meams fake claims are more viable, if someone is scum they will near always claim something. It just doesn't see a world where Ranger claims something and it believes Town PR Ranger plays this way. Or Dave, for that matter. It was Dave play a PR in PYP, an important one. It doesn't think those align.

So for it, unless Ranger claims a provable power role (like an extra kill or a Cop) it has very little interest in believing them.

Honestly, with how they played, I’d have expected Dave to be more likely to have a PR than Ranger. But since they’re the same slot…who knows. I’m heavily leaning towards no PR though.

Don't get it wrong. It has no interest in killing Ranger without a claim, certainly there are worlds where it is wrong and Ranger claims a Vigilante kill for example? Something provable that we can hold them to, even if it doesn't make them town by design it can be used for town value. (Though scum vig feels really strong is that normal?)

Either way, it will kill anyone in the game who kills without such a claim.

It is just saying right now, should Ranger claim tracker or doctor or one shot commuter or something, it is killing them regardless.

(all these were made with ranger in the danger zone)

So ok, y'all have heard about too scummy to be scum, be prepared for too towny to be town

i'm ok with oblivion being good at the game

but this kind of mindreading on ranger + predicting the fakeclaim seems like too much?

[Gypyx]

Greetings,

It has a major distaste for the idea that this thread was comfortable with putting a player at one vote to elimination prior to that player having ever posted. It is especially concerned with this from Dave, given that Dave was present for a quick hammer in quite literally a game that ended just yesterday. It feels like Dave can and should be more sensitive to that, and so must have truly wished to kill a player before a single post.

Dave, for what purpose?

for instance (was reading obv iso and this flashed up to me) this is a really weird post to open with considering the flips we've had now

Do we think it would immediately throw a scumbuddy under the bus like this? Just to look like it was trying to solve?

It doesn't accuse dave of anything and doesn't end up creating actual pressure (especially in the post following up on that, it spins it as "this is a bad way to catch scum !" not "this is scum !")

and yes, i don't think it couldn't do that

Daveslot is also the only person to invoke such strong reactions from oblivion, i wonder why

[Psyche]

think calling out the snow/davesaz dissoc yesterday is probably a good sign that thomith really is town

[Psyche]

Daveslot is also the only person to invoke such strong reactions from oblivion, i wonder why

oblivion did give some reasons for this in its post and at least the factual parts seem verifiable

[Psyche]

agree though that it's wrong to interpret 44 as potentially throwing dave under the bus; there's not enough pressure conveyed by the post to have that effect

[Gypyx]

Daveslot is also the only person to invoke such strong reactions from oblivion, i wonder why

oblivion did give some reasons for this in its post and at least the factual parts seem verifiable

Sorry could you elaborate on that one?

my point is that both ranger / davesaz got oblivion to react strongly, these are the only players to have caused this shift in oblivion

[Psyche]

I'd argue that oblivion also pushed Naeyrs reasonably strongly. Lines like "Naerys needs to be the elimination for today. Bottom line."

[Gypyx]

I guess i might be getting a little too attached to my oblivion SR

would love opinions on massclaiming once again, and perhaps who else even is scum

[Psyche]

Now, I did kind of find its basis for pushing Naeyrs kind of weak when I first looking at the wagon...I remember being fascinated by its strong hostility reaction after I critiqued this basis. But in retrospect, it just looks like a symptom of tunnel vision plus a chip in its shoulder about being ignored for some reason.

It notes they popped in only to defend themselves and are now scrambling to find alternative targets.

imo this is close to consistent w my play atm (i guess i'm asking questions sometimes too) and i'm just busy town with thread email notifications turned on

naeyrs has admitted to lurking because of other interests

so isn't this null since it could be honest from either version of naeyrs?
or do you see signs she's lying?
or do you think it doesn't actually matter?
(if so, why'd you bring it up?)

[am not at all closed to joining the naeyrs wagon. just think these questions will help assess (and document) your vote basis/confidence]

Then it has no interest in answering your questions. Your posts already read like they are trying to setup onto voting it, and if you're never changing your mind, then it has no interest in wasting its breath with you.

Either you're town and so wrong it will never convince you, so it's efforts are best spent elsewhere.

or you're scum and chainsawing Naerys, which would require some thought processing from it, but is solvable just from that.

In either case, answer your questions provides it with exactly zero value, and given your stance on it already it doesn't feel it owes you even a lick of effort in trying to show it is town. It frankly doesn't care.

[am not at all closed to joining the naeyrs wagon. just think these questions will help assess (and document) your vote basis/confidence]

Then it has no interest in answering your questions. Your posts already read like they are trying to setup onto voting it, and if you're never changing your mind, then it has no interest in wasting its breath with you.

Either you're town and so wrong it will never convince you, so it's efforts are best spent elsewhere.

or you're scum and chainsawing Naerys, which would require some thought processing from it, but is solvable just from that.

In either case, answer your questions provides it with exactly zero value, and given your stance on it already it doesn't feel it owes you even a lick of effort in trying to show it is town. It frankly doesn't care.

this is a pretty oddly hostile response to some pretty solid qs imo

It isn't hostile, it's just correct. It sees no benefit to itself in answering the questions of someone who doesn't ever plan to change his mind, nor does it see a reason to pitch itself as town to such a person when they clearly already scumread it.

Why would it waste its energy on that conversation... ever?

well then what's the stance you think i'm resistant to changing? i haven't said i scumread you and i've specifically said i'm open to voting naeyrs

but idk not seeing much sortable in this exchange. at least nothing that goes against baseline guess that slots that push early to get scum limmed and keep pushing until the lim succeeds are usually town.

[Gypyx]

but idk like... that day, it kinda felt like ranger was fine with being limmed?

she did a lot of stuff that while it could be passed of as towny, was also goading people into wagoning her

[Oblivion]

What it sounds like to it is that you are uncomfortable with it having been right on Hu Tao, Snow, Ranger, and several other reads it has beyond Naerys, and that your ego isn't comfortable with its methods working.

Which is a frustrating thing for it to interact with because it can't be less than it is.

[Oblivion]

but idk like... that day, it kinda felt like ranger was fine with being limmed?

she did a lot of stuff that while it could be passed of as towny, was also goading people into wagoning her

This is such a wild take, it literally cannot fathom this. Ranger entered and immediately tried to upend the game to save herself, and nearly succeeded being down to two people on her wagon at one point before it started hammering home the issue.

Do you really think if it comes in and declares "Ranger looks much more town than Dave" Ranger dies that day?

[Psyche]

massclaiming would be a good call i think. still feel reasonably committed to stance that oblivion's not the one for today.

[Oblivion]

As an example, this is its 125th post in this game. It has now been alive for 4 days.

Ranger was alive for less than one day, and this post will mark it finally catching up to her in post count.

The assertions that Ranger was okay with dying are so ludicrous to it, it's beyond its understanding.

[Oblivion]

massclaiming would be a good call i think. still feel reasonably committed to stance that oblivion's not the one for today.

It has wanted to massclaim since Day 2, personally, so it is fully behind it.

Popcorn method? It is even willing to be the first to claim.

[Gypyx]

that one point was because of the claim though right?

and also that's kinda my point? Like, that's what a well executed bus is supposed to look like, especially since it's not like ranger was in any way out of the woods, today she would've been under so much scrutiny

[Gypyx]

for clarity

but idk like... that day, it kinda felt like ranger was fine with being limmed?

she did a lot of stuff that while it could be passed of as towny, was also goading people into wagoning her

This is such a wild take, it literally cannot fathom this. Ranger entered and immediately tried to upend the game to save herself, and nearly succeeded being down to two people on her wagon at one point before it started hammering home the issue.

Do you really think if it comes in and declares "Ranger looks much more town than Dave" Ranger dies that day?

that one point was because of the claim though right?

and also that's kinda my point? Like, that's what a well executed bus is supposed to look like, especially since it's not like ranger was in any way out of the woods, today she would've been under so much scrutiny

[Gypyx]

As an example, this is its 125th post in this game. It has now been alive for 4 days.

Ranger was alive for less than one day, and this post will mark it finally catching up to her in post count.

The assertions that Ranger was okay with dying are so ludicrous to it, it's beyond its understanding.

Posting a lot doesn't = want to live

[Psyche]

What's the way to distinguish a well-executed bus from someone having a scumread and pushing it over?

[Gypyx]

context?

Like, i think it's pretty universal that scum don't like to bus on a base level

But ranger came in a pretty rough slot, with no PRs flipped, surely, someone is going to have to go deep to win it, and, you know, there's oblivion right here who's already pretty TR'd...

especially, what i think is the most damning is ranger just claiming and... whoops, gone, zero capitalization on some people's reactions

[Enchant]

VOTE: Lycanfire

I’m going to drop out of school and become a wandering sorcerer, traveling around the world, accumulating knowledge of lost and ancient magics. Through the use of blood rituals and the arcane power I amassed, I will become near god-like in status. Then, once my life is near its end, I will take on a singular apprentice, unto whom I will impart all of my knowledge through a long a difficult training regimen. Once I pass away, my faithful student will revive me through his powers in necromancy, and I will live on forever, collecting more and more knowledge, having an infinite undead “life”, and control the entire world from the shadows. But my student will betray me, believing that I have become to powerful for the world to be able to fight against me, should I choose to destroy it on a whim. He releases the spell that would have kept me alive for thousands of years more, and I will dissipate into nothingness. Only my consciousness will remain because of the extent of the rituals I have performed. I will float throughout the universe, and explore planets, but will cease to have any interaction due to only being a consciousness and not having a body. The lack of interaction will drive me insane, and until I find some way to end my misery, I will not rest.

VOTE: Lycanfire