Newbie 1882 - Game Over

[Completly Trustworthy]

Hello everyone, glad to start my first game
VOTE: WhyReadThis

[Completly Trustworthy]

There is a higher chance the IC will be town than scum, there is no reason to vote for them before they have done anything suspicious.

[Completly Trustworthy]

I wasn't criticizing you for random voting, only voting for Zito because they are the IC. I've seen IC's fall under suspicion multiple times in newbie games I have read through with the justification of "they would be better scum players than anyone here." I think that is faulty reasoning because they are more likely to be town than not and even one vote on them for that reason could provide scum a bandwagon to support.

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Also, xRECKONERx, why did you vote for Zito with no stated reason? Was it random or not?

[Completly Trustworthy]

EBWOP: I don't oppose a random vote, I just want to know whether you are voting randomly, suspect him because he's the IC, wish to put pressure on him by increasing the number of votes to 2, or have some other motive.

[Completly Trustworthy]

My EBWOP was about my question to reckoner over his motives for voting Zito, but it's good to know yours was random.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Can everyone answer these questions:
1. What is your experience at Mafia
2. How do you play as town
3. How do you play as scum
4. What do you think gives away a player as scum or town

My answers:
1. Little, this is my first game, I have looked at some completed newbie games however.
2. I will try to post a lot, seem confident(because nervousness makes someone seem guilty), and advance the game quickly.
3. In general, I will try to emulate my townself as much as possible and attempt to avoid having a preset plan(like attempting to lynch someone), because taking advantage of the opportunities other players give me to question and suspect them seems more town-like.
4. I think that defensiveness and contradiction of stated beliefs are the biggest scumtells. I will be less suspicious of a player that tunnels someone than a player who is open-minded and then tunnels.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Do not worry, I will have an avatar soon. I'm trying to find a suitable one. Anyways, can UglyDuck, Papa Zito, and Chardev reply to my questions?

[Completly Trustworthy]

In 18, what made you suspicious of Zito? Was it the vote for you?

[Completly Trustworthy]

^The above post was a question to reckoner, I forgot to add his name.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Also, Zito, why did you switch your vote to UglyDuck? Was their one post suspicious?Also, this came right after Reckoner said he voted for you due to a post where you voted for him, so that seems a little odd to me.

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Why was that a little odd? What did you expect him to do?

I thought that it was odd that he voted for a second person with no evidence against them(in my opinion) after already doing a random vote. I didn't see the point of it. I thought that perhaps the conflict between Reckoner and Zito was an early-game bussing attempt or Zito retracted his vote to avoid further scrutiny from Reckoner because he found out the vote for him was because he voted for Reckoner to start out. Therefore; I would love to hear why Zito thought that Duck's post was suspicious, he never explained the reason for that opinion.

[Completly Trustworthy]

I think that keeping my vote on WhyReadThis is the best decision for now, especially since they confirmed, but have not posted so far. This seems like intentional lurking, especially since they are aware a game is going on. Without any explanation for their absence, I have to suspect them.

[Completly Trustworthy]

iChronicDemonic, what do you think of the game so far? Do you have any opinions about the players?

[Completly Trustworthy]

Zito, I have three questions for you.
1. Why was UglyDuck's post suspicious?
2. Do you suspect the lurking is intentional?
3. Are games this slow common?

[Completly Trustworthy]

Papa Zito, you still have not answered what was so suspicious about UglyDuck's post. This will be the third time I have asked you about it, why have you not said anything about it?

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Not explaining your reasoning and making comments that ensure it is hard to determine whether you are just joking or scum deflecting a question hardly help the town. As this point, with most people either not posting(making them null) or generally trying to be helpful, you are my biggest scum read.
VOTE: Papa Zito

[Completly Trustworthy]

Two typos on post above, I should have checked before sending it.
As should be at
help should be helps

[Completly Trustworthy]

I have little to no experience, is this just something to pass the time or does it link back to the game at hand?

[Completly Trustworthy]

VOTE: iChronicdemonic
Jumping on a bandwagon to put someone at l-1, making a naked vote, not presenting opinions, taking the low hanging fruit, and not posting until someone else is being accused all highly indicate demonic is scum.

[Completly Trustworthy]

UNVOTE: IChronicDemonic
It now looks like Demonic is simply new and doesn't understand all the facets of the game. Therefore; I would encourage there not to be a wagon on them at this point in time since it would be easy to pressure a new player for a relatively talented scumteam.
Teacher, you are right, some of my posts were forced. I was among the only active players for a while and wanted to get the game going. That is why I suspected Zito, he did something suspicious, didn't answer my question straight-up, and I had insufficient evidence to suspect anyone else. As for my question to Reckoner, I added the phrase "was it random to not" to ensure I didn't get questioned by him over my hypocrisy when it comes to random voting. I suspect others when they do it, but think its fine myself. Chardev had already called that out and I wanted to make sure that Reckoner understand my true question. I did not intend to load the question, it was mere clarification of what I truly wanted to be answered.

[Completly Trustworthy]

My Reads so far:
Chardev-Slight town for being active and helpful throughout the entire game. I believe his questioning of me over the debate over whether IC's should be lynched was merely a case of him not understanding what I was asking as he later took back his comments.
UglyDuck-Slight scum for not posting that often, voting Chardev for weak reasons in my opinion, and only focusing on a question made at the beginning of the game instead of advancing the game state further.
iChronicDemonic-Null because he could either be bad scum or new town, time will tell in this case.
Papa Zito- Null since his refusal to answer my question was annoying and time-wasting, but that could just be part of the way he acts. Zito has made a variety of helpful and useless posts, so I have no strong read on him.
Sunlit Diamond- Diamond gave me the most thorough answers to my questions and most of their posts(though still relatively few) contain important information, so I think Diamond is slightly town at this point.
Teacher- Teacher's rapid posting and good points earn him a slight town lean, but I still think some of his questions are about relatively inconsequential things. However, since town members are naturally inquisitive, it makes more sense for a town member to make a deal about a minor point than for a more defensive scum to do the same.
Lefty-I think of Lefty as slightly scummy at this point due to their theorizing about a scumteam with little reasoning.
Reckoner- Reckoner is slightly scummy to me because most of his posts have been unhelpful and 76 is weird, why did Reckoner not ask for an explanation from lefty instead of expressing relief he was accused. Nobody wants to be thought of as being in a scumteam, so that post was unneeded and forced in my opinion.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Can someone who has played with Reckoner tell me whether the mindset he is expressing now is normal? I don't want to think someone is being scummy purely because of the way they play.

[Completly Trustworthy]

I have some questions for various players(and the mod)
Uglyduck:
1. Why do you suspect Chardev and Demon?
2. Why did you call my list of reads a charisma list?
Teacher:
1. If you are good at townhunting this game, who do you townread?
Reckoner:
What is your opinion of various players so far? Telling that could help with your lack of content.
Brassherald:
Why did the last vote count say I'm voting for Demon even though I unvoted?

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Teacher, the reason why I focus on obvious things like Zito not answering my questions is playstyles where people go with their "gut" or don't offer information when asked help scum in my opinion. It is easy for a scum player to justify a mistake by saying they were going with their gut or they play "lazily" in a game with many other people doing the same thing. Therefore; I try to discourage such behavior.

Meanwhile, there is something in the thread I previously overlooked, 120 features Chardev giving a FOS to me for posting a lot and asking questions. That is odd since he's really hesitant to commit and says there is a good chance he might be wrong, but doesn't explain why he felt the need to post that and why my questions have been suspicious. Also why does posting a lot lead to the conclusion that I'm just newbtown or scum? Perhaps I'm just a good proactive town player.

[Completly Trustworthy]

What were you trying to teach me, Papa Zito? I never found out.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Demonic, here are some articles that can help you get into the game.
A Beginner's Guide to Being Awesome At Mafia
Commonly Used Abbreviations


As for how to get reads, it depends on personal preference, everyone has different opinions. However, a rule of thumb is that the town members will be looking for scum using various strategies while the scum themselves try to fake such activity and distract the townies away from members of their group. Finding people who aren't helping the game advance and don't seem to be that invested in discovering scum can be used to identity people who are part of the Mafia.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Currently my best lynch candidates are Chardev and Uglyduck. The odd things Chardev has done have recently been pointed out to me and I've noticed times wheres he seemed a bit too quick to jump on a wagon or start an argument with little reasoning involved and then quickly leave if it doesn't pan out. However, UglyDuck's tendency to ask other people for opinions rather than giving their own and fixation on one question at the beginning of the game make them my best scumread. Therefore; I would prefer Duck to get lynched and if that doesn't work out, Chardev. I eliminated Reckoner and Lefty from my lynchpool for now since their suspicious activity might just come from their playstyles and I just have more evidence against Chardev and Duck.

[Completly Trustworthy]

EDWOP-VOTE: UglyDuck, I meant to do this in my last post.

[Completly Trustworthy]

To be honest, Teacher, I don't really have a process at this point, that is why I have focused on obvious things so far. I think I am poor at noticing hidden motivations behind posts and calling them out, I am still somewhat inexperienced. The reason I suspect Chardev is because of his initial reason for voting Zito(I wouldn't have cared if he just said it was random), misunderstanding of my point about IC's(which I felt was obvious), and weird finger of suspicion at me in post 120, which I mentioned earlier. I don't really have a solid case against him, the only person I have a good scumread on at this point is UglyDuck, with Chardev a distant second and Reckoner in third.

[Completly Trustworthy]

The reason why I thought Chardev's post about me was odd is that he said I was either scum or newbtown, which has negative implications. How does asking questions a lot result in those being the only possibilities? Then the finger of suspicion placed toward me was also not committed to and he suggested he could wrong shortly afterward. Finally, Chardev was also echoing Teacher's sentiments that I was dominating the thread instead of proposing a new idea. These three things were not that suspicious on their own, but together they made me think the post was worth looking into.
UglyDuck, the reason I scumread you for now is because of the following posts.

In 25, you ask why I didn't want anyone to vote for the IC after I had already explained it.
You bring it up again in 80
Only to agree with me totally and support the IC in 82
In 113, you give an explanation for your change of mind, but many people had clarified what I had meant by the IC comment earlier, so I find it odd you did not realize by post 80.
In114, you admit that you have done jack, but don't seem to try harder afterwards.
In 115, you ask for reads from two other people rather than yourself
In 118, you suggest Chardev,Demon,or both are scum, which are reads with no reasoning involved as to how you got them.
In 141, you say it is acceptable for people to not post reads list in response to your question, which makes it seem as if you do not care much about hunting for scum and gathering information.
In 151, you do not argue that you are not scum or ask for more information about why you are scumread, but merely ask Lefty who they also scumread. I know this point may not be too strong, but the question still seems weird coming from a town member.

That is why these two players are my two main lynch targets. I have little on anyone else.
Lefty and Reckoner seem to have odd playstyles that make it hard to read them, but are not suspicious outside of that.
ChronicDemonic is probably just new and shouldn't be lynched on day 1
I read teacher, zito, and diamond as either town or null, so I can't support lynching them
Overall, the person with the best argument against them should be lynched.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Since I've given information about my lynchpool and reads already, can someone else elaborate on theirs. I'd like to see Reckoner, Diamond, and Zito give their take on the players so far.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Lefty,Papa Zito,and Reckoner can you comment on something,like your opinion of UglyDuck? I don't want to be the only active player. If nobody starts talking soon, the scum have the game in the bag.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Here are the answers to the questions in 171
I thought that he was saying I was new to being town or a member of the mafia because I was asking a lot of questions. I didn't understand why asking a lot of question would make me a noob. I thought that he was framing my behavior negatively in a way that didn't make sense. Doesn't questioning people advance the game? That seems to be what good town players do.

The reason why I thought Chardev not being strong in his assertion was strange is because that left him a way to retract his statement later by saying something like "I was not that certain I was correct." I know this is pretty weak, but I believe that if he really thought my behavior was scummy, he would try to put pressure on me instead of merely telling others to pay attention to whatever I do.

Using another's argument is scummy because it allows for someone to justify their vote for a town player using information that has already been given, which also means that no new information is added to the game and the resulting wagon can gain momentum.

Here are some questions for other players:
Zito-Why is posting a list of reads not beneficial?
Zito-Are my points against Duck good or not? You mentioned my post was long, but not your opinions on it.
Reckoner- Why are you still voting for Demon if you think my case against Duck is good, do you scumread him or not? Any other reads would be appreciated
Skygazer- What do you think of the players besides me and Duck?

[Completly Trustworthy]

Sorry, Reckoner, I got distracted by Skygazer's first posts and didn't notice your vote change.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Chardev, don't lynch Duck before this day is over, we need to give them time to respond. I too am suspicious of this wagon being scum-motivated and wish for there to be further discussion. There are still a few days left before time runs out, we shouldn't get too hasty.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Teacher, is Jailkeeper a good claim for scum to make? Do you think it's more likely Duck is telling the truth or lying?

[Completly Trustworthy]

I just looked at the setups and noticed that jailkeeper is a terrible fakeclaim. Only setup c3 does not feature a cop, jailkeeper, or neapolitan, so Duck should be believed. I'll unvote while trying to figure out which wagon to join or start next.
UNVOTE: UglyDuck

[Completly Trustworthy]

My read of Zito has transitioned from null to scum, here are the reasons(apology for the long post):
In32, Zito votes for UglyDuck(who I believe is really jailkeeper) because of one post without any questioning beforehand, it feels opportunistic.
In 36, Zito does not give an answer to the question of why he voted UglyDuck, which hardly helps the town
In 46, Zito says people need to post more often but spends 48,50,53,55, and 64 doing nothing to advance the game.
In 69, Zito questions Demonic about what a random lynch would accomplish without saying why that is a bad idea or wondering whether Demonic is a new player with little knowledge of how the game is played.(I don't think Demonic is scum because he would have been coached by the other mafia player so such a mistake would not be made.) It feels like he concludes Demonic is being scummy without considering the possibility he is new.
In78, Zito says Diamond's conclusion about Demonic was an assumption, but wasn't his too?
79 Is another post that added nothing to the game, why did Zito feel the need to post this?
In 97, Zito goes on for paragraphs about how the wagon on Demonic should have been kept, but ends the post by suggesting UglyDuck needs to be suspected. That feels really abrupt and odd, not at all fitting with the rest of his points.
In 122, Zito does not ask Reckoner for reads on everyone or multiple people, instead he is only concerned about opinions of him. This also seems weird, Zito just asked for it out of the blue.
In 190, Zito asks for Demonic to vote for someone, this may not seem suspicious, but that request seemed to be intended to bait Demonic into doing something scummy.
In 217, Zito says posting reads is a bad idea(which I don't get since it it usually rather obvious who is really hard to lynch) and asks for a fullclaim.
In 230, Zito doesn't like the unvoting of Duck despite my argument that he is probably Jailkeeper, which makes it seem as if he is still pushing for him to be lynched for a reason that is currently not fully explained.

Because of this information and my insufficient case against Chardev(most of my evidence against him comes from one or two posts), I will put my vote on Zito for now.
VOTE: Papa Zito

[Completly Trustworthy]

Teacher and UglyDuck, what are your thoughts on the case I made against Zito? Do you believe any of my new information I supplied was relevant?

[Completly Trustworthy]

UglyDuck, he was saying you should try to jail people who are scummy to ensure you are not killed.
Teacher, what made you so suspicious of me early on? I would like some sort of explanation for curiosity's sake. I still don't fully get why you were distrusting of him initially.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Reckoner, what is your opinion of Zito? You scumread him in 128 and 137,but now you are refuting various arguments being made against him. Did you change your opinion or just believe the points being made are bad?

[Completly Trustworthy]

Where's Sunlit Diamond? They said they would be back early monday morning and now it's tuesday. It seems odd that such an experienced player would disappear without an explanation for the extended absence. There was not even one post saying I can't post until tuesday or something like that.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Since even Teacher said he doesn't believe much of the case I made against Zito consisted of genuine points and now it seems that the conflict between them was a clash of beliefs, it makes little sense to keep my vote against Zito. My new lynchpool consists of Sunlit Diamond, Reckoner, and Ceejay since they are the players who have contributed the least. Everyone else has acted towny enough that I bet there is at last one scum in that group. I'd like to see more content from all three of them like reads or lynchpools with the reasons they suspect those players.
UNVOTE: Papa Zito

[Completly Trustworthy]

Teacher and Zito, what do you think of the Chardev wagon? I'm not sure whether to include him in the lynchpool or not because of the possibility that the wagon is scum-driven and two of the people in my lynchpool are on it. Do you believe he should be a suspect or think that the votes should be moved elsewhere?

[Completly Trustworthy]

Here are the reasons I have been somewhat suspicious of Chardev throughout the game:
In 7, 9, 10, 12, 16 and 20, and 27, he talks about what his suspicions levels mean and has an argument about a minor point with me, there was little new content created during those posts.
In 44, Chardev says something is NAI, which does not lead to any conclusions.
In 65, Chardev gives advice to Demonic about what is right to do and merely says he is a little more suspicious.
Then in 68, he goes ahead and votes for Demonic despite his previous post, which seemed sudden, almost as if he was hopping onto a wagon.
He unvotes in 85 defensively and posts reads which most people probably agreed on at that point.
96 is merely a repeat of his question in 85, which does not add more content.
120 features a question about Lefty's reason for suspecting Sunny even after Lefty said it was mostly gut and there was little logic involved. Also, he gives a FOS to me out of the blue which I have talked about in my previous posts.
In 146, Chardev indicates he believes that Demon and Lefty were misunderstanding earlier when they made reads and are new players.
In 168, he goes ahead and votes Lefty despite his previous post indicating his opinion was changing for the better.
214 is merely a prelude to post 216
216 may seem like it adds to the game, but my post by post analysis of Ugly Duck and Zito's comments on it probably supplied much of the information he used there. Also, this came after a two day absence, why did he return only to give an intent to hammer Ugly Duck, a town player? I think that Chardev could have supplied much more content than he has based on his early posts and is only posting to put town players under suspicion.

[Completly Trustworthy]

I really need some comments from Sunlit Diamond or Ceejay now, I know too little about their slots right now. With only a few day until the deadline, I need to have a clear picture of all the options.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Chardev is at l-1 everyone, do not quickhammer! I would post intent to hammer but I prefer to listen to Chardev's response to this pressure and get more information on Diamond's slot first.

[Completly Trustworthy]

My lynch pool now consists of Ceejay and Chardev. I've already said why I suspect Chardev. Ceejay's slot I know little about and the few interactions that I have had with it were negative. For instance, Demonic contributed nothing to the game and Ceejay joined the largest wagon immediately with a case very similar to mine. As teacher said, it is hard to get five townies to vote for a scum player on day one. So right now, I would prefer Ceejay over Chardev because of the pressure being put on Chardev.

[Completly Trustworthy]

I have not cleared sky of suspicion, but apart from pushing for UglyDuck, I have very little when it comes to making a case against them.Their arguments about your l-1 policy were well thought-out. Even you said that she was voted for merely because you liked the other players more. I may change my pool to include her if sky starts behaving in a scummy way. I believe that scummies should always be lynched first no matter what.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Well, that's enough to increase my willingness to see sky lynched. Haven't I made it clear throughout this thread that naked votes are unwanted? I would like to know why you thought putting Chardev to l-1 was a good idea.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Also Sky, did you really have nothing to say about Ceejay and Zito's latest posts?

[Completly Trustworthy]

I've been busy lately, a family member underwent surgery. I will comment on what has happened in the game since I last logged in later today.

[Completly Trustworthy]

I cannot support the wagon on Chardev with both of the players in my lynchpool (skygazer and ceejay) on it. I will not vote him unless something major changes. I"ll go with sky for now because I want elaboration from her. Why are naked votes useful? Why is a lynch on someone you don't want to lynch better than not targeting them or trying to start an alternative wagon? Also, sky has done other things that have given me pause like repeating other's arguments. In 336, , sky states the same beliefs as teacher to justify putting Chardev at l-1, In 348, sky defends zito in a similar manner to reckoner in 255, and 301 sounded similar to 351. Also, she did same thing as ceejay, she scumread the player with the largest wagon on them and null or townread everyone else in 196, then jumped on the largest wagon once UD claimed. Anyone who has played with sky, let me know if she has expressed such beliefs before.
VOTE: Skygazer

[Completly Trustworthy]

HeWhoSwims, can you elaborate on your opinion of sky? How did their reads change, they mostly suspected UglyDuck, then claimed the claim was true, and moved to the ceejay wagon. Right now pretty much everyone believes Uglyduck and thinks Ceejay is suspicious. Their reads have mostly developed the same as everyone else. I don't understand your slight townread at this point.

[Completly Trustworthy]

I still suspect Ceejay and know that skygazer's move onto the ceejay wagon seems townish(didn't notice the unvote in the first post), but I want some answers before moving on. If they are good enough, I will move my vote elsewhere. Also, UglyDuck, what do you think of the three wagons? Answers from a confirmed townie(or at least close to it) would be valuable around now. Finally, mod I think you are miscounting votes.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Skygazer, I used the wrong post when I claimed one of yours was similar to336, I thought that you were using a convenient excuse to jump on the largest wagons without suspicion. However, you are right that Ceejay has not explained his reads well and has been incredibly opportunistic. His vote on you after I expressed suspicion was the final nail in the coffin. I would give Ceejay time to claim now, but he will probably get lynched no matter matter what he says since there is no longer any time left. Plus a fakeclaim could draw out another pr, so it is best to just finish him now.
VOTE: ceejayvinoya

[Completly Trustworthy]

I believe in what Teacher said earlier, there was almost certainly scum on the Ceejay wagon. Before I review how it formed, I'll give my opinions on each of the players on it.
Me-confirmed town from my perspective
Teacher-I townread him harder than everyone except myself and many of his pushes(like the one against Papa Zito) don't seem likely for scum to make.
Papa Zito-I slightly townread him at this point because he has been casting needless suspicion on himself(such as when he refused to answer my questions) and even some of his most suspicious moments(such as asking for a full claim from UglyDuck) probably resulted from his beliefs. Most scum would not bother making a big deal about a minor question or say they have different beliefs than everyone else, they would be cautious and try to act as a normal townie. He is hardly cleared of suspicion though.
Skygazer-I have already stated my reasons for being cautious of her. If Chardev turns out to be town, I'd say she is 100% scum, since she would have participated in three wagons against townies in succession and switched to Chardev for no reason other than to avoid a no lynch(which rarely happens day one.)
HeWhoSwims- Has fewer posts than any of the other players on this list, I still don't understand why he is confident in Skygazer, but what he has posted so far has consisted of some good points that nobody else had made. For instance, his comment on 29 feel like his honest feelings rather than something meant to look towny. Overall, I have to suspect him because I don't have enough content to get a hard townread, but Sky is clearly more scummy.
VOTE: Skygazer

[Completly Trustworthy]

Mod, are people told if they are roleblocked? If they are, it can be confirmed doctor exists. If not, then the person who was jailkept by Duck may become a suspect. In that case, I would like opinions from people. What is more likely, a doctor figured out who would be attacked, or Duck jailed the member of the mafia who was going to attack?

[Completly Trustworthy]

HeWhoSwims, if you believe scum was on the Ceejay wagon, who do you think it was? Do you agree with me that Sky is the most likely candidate?

[Completly Trustworthy]

In Newbie 1881, Skygazer said she was having a depressive episode as well, so I don't think her statements about rl troubles are lies. Right now, I think I may be scumreading someone who is just off their game. I should look more into Reckoner and Zito before tunneling on her, I"ll decide what to do next after reading their ISOs. Zito, can you give reads, you said you would do it after scum made a decision on their night-kill. I would be interested to know what you think of the players.
UNVOTE: Skygazer

[Completly Trustworthy]

Even if there is a doctor, Sky could still be scum. In the setup where there is a doctor and jailkeeper, the mafia have a roleblocker. That means UglyDuck would have been roleblocked during night one and sky could have performed the kill despite being selected by the jailkeeper. Regardless of the setup, there is nothing that can prove sky as town and there are two setups where she is definitively scum. If she flips town(which is unlikely given how scummy she has acted), then Reckoner will become my new strongest scumread. He was the first to vote after the jailkeeper revealed who they had picked and then made a relatively long post about why she should be lynched, which was uncharacteristic for him. I will vote for Sky later on, but I will abstain for now because I prefer discussion over a quick lynch, we need to make use of all our days to talk about our thoughts on the game.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Also, I am beginning to suspect Chardev. After the first day, in which Chardev posted six times, he has only made thirteen more posts. It seems like he's deliberately trying to fly under the radar in a way that seems fishy. I would really like more content from that slot, with little to go on, I just can't stop feeling uneasy. In addition, there were pushes on UglyDuck and Ceejay around the time when wagons were developing on him during day 1,it makes me think that perhaps those two wagons were counterwagons to protect Chardev.

[Completly Trustworthy]

I slightly townread HeWhoSwims at this point in time. His entrance was filled with comments on random things that had not been discussed much like in 364,384,386, and 418. I feel like he's adding new content instead of sheeping other people and is really trying to solve the game. He could be a good actor with his level of experience at the game, but his contributions seemed like things that scum would not bother giving and he could have easily gotten away with not posting as many opinions as he did.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Sky, why did you ask me for my opinion of HeWhoSwims? Are you suspicious of him?

[Completly Trustworthy]

I meant that I was starting to suspect Chardev for those reasons, not that I had not suspected him before. My case previously was based on his posts being scummy, in this case I am saying he is scummy for not supplying information in his posts and suddenly vanishing from the thread day 1.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Sky, in 485, I included links to four of HeWhoSwims posts.I have already provided examples of posts he made which I have liked. The only reason I can think of for you questioning me further about my opinion of him is that you want me to suspect him instead of you. I did say I was going to vote on people from the Ceejay wagon and that you and HeWhoSwims were my biggest suspects in 408. So I believe that you are scum using my prior stated suspicion of him in a last ditch attempt to save yourself. I'm so confident in my scumread of you that I will vote you and not move off your wagon from this point in time.
VOTE: Skygazer
However, townies, remember to continue talking until the deadline even if the lynch is already determined. I would like some further discussion of Chardev and Reckoner so i can get more solid reads on them.

[Completly Trustworthy]

I believe that no power role(Tracker or Doctor) should claim in this day phase unless it would reveal a person claiming another pr is lying.
Since the lynch is all but determined, and I need to wait for Chardev's replacement to arrive before becoming willing to have sky hammered, I would like to ask some questions of the various players.
UglyDuck, what is opinion of Teacher? You alluded to having some suspicion in 235, but never explained why. Did he do something weird you picked up on?
UglyDuck, can you give your take on HeWhoSwims and Papa Zito?
Reckoner, did you scumread Sky before it was revealed who got jailkept or are you only voting for her because of what UglyDuck said?
Papa Zito, what are your scumreads? Also, do you believe UglyDuck is telling the truth? If not, then please list your reasons.
Skygazer, in 512, you imply that UglyDuck is scum, why do you believe that?
HeWhoSwims, can you post a readlist?

[Completly Trustworthy]

Zito, I phrased the question badly. I meant to ask you whether you still think there is a possibility that UglyDuck is lying and we are in a tracker/doctor setup as Sky said. In 287, you said many points still stand against UglyDuck. Therefore, I am curious whether you still have doubts. I want more discussion about UglyDuck because this lynch is revolving around his comments. Its not unthinkable that he is lying, given that if there are two mafia goons, claiming jailkeeper has a one third chance of being cc'd instead of a one ninth chance. I don't want to treat someone as confirmed when they may have just gotten lucky when fakeclaiming.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Reckoner, why do you assume a Tracker is even in the game? It feels like you're trying to get pr's to claim. I'm going to review your iso to see if you've done anything else that could be suspicious. Between being the first to vote Skygazer and this post, you're starting to become scummy in my opinion.

[Completly Trustworthy]

After reviewing Reckoner's ISO, I found one post that made me think he might be town. In 381, he defended Ceejay, who turned out to be town. I think scum!reck would probably have taken the opportunity to express suspicion of him and try to get him lynched. Given how little information Reck had given about his reads at that point, I think it would have been easy for him to get away with that. As for UglyDuck, I believe he is probably town, but I wanted to get people talking about their views on him. Its a bad idea to discount the possibility he's scum, but its looking less and less likely. Now that I've heard cases from Zito and Reckoner. I think its safe to assume he's town for now.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Teacher, do you think the quickness with which everyone is agreeing to lynch Sky means she's not scum? I remember you saying that in 210, lack of a counterpush often indicates scum are satisfied with the situation. Is the case against sky just too good to argue against or is it likely that the scumteam is satisfied with the way things are going?

[Completly Trustworthy]

Given that the only good target to track was UglyDuck and there has been no claim that he's lying, I would assume we are not in a tracker-doctor setup. At this point, even with my belief that the lack of a counterpush is odd, there is a two/thirds chance that Sky is definitively scum(setups c2 and b2.) There simply isn't a way to justify another lynch.
As for Eragon, I slightly townread him because his entrance was full of unique opinions and commentary on posts that had not been covered yet. Not sheeping is always a good start. However, I think a lot of his points are based on flimsy reasoning, like the argument that I was helping my scum buddy through asking whether jailkeeper is a good fakeclaim. I believe that he's reading too much into minor things and making arguments based on his interpretation of the intent behind posts. I'm not saying he's scummy because of that, only that his process is a little flawed. Its far too easy to make points against someone if you consider reasons why they would make their posts as scum. There are town-motivated reasons for asking questions and scum ones as well, its best to consider both sides.

[Completly Trustworthy]

I hope that UglyDuck and HeWhoSwims answer the questions I gave them in 524, that might get people talking again. We need to get as much out of this day 2 as possible. In addition, I would like Eragon to give their opinion of Sky, they are the only player that Eragon has yet to talk about.

[Completly Trustworthy]

This silence is weird, everyone had a lot to say earlier, but now nobody is posting. Perhaps the players don't want to reveal information or they feel there's nothing left to talk about, but I still can't shake the feeling that perhaps the scumteam is happy about this day's outcome. Anyways, Eragon, can you give your thoughts about Sky? You said you would do that. Also, my reason for questioning you about Sky was because I thought it was weird you had nothing to say concerning the most promising lynch. I figured you would have at least some read on her, that was why it seemed odd when you had so much to talk about concerning me, Papa Zito, and Teacher, but not her. Why did you not review her ISO initially?

[Completly Trustworthy]

Eragon, UglyDuck can't be scum. Claiming to be jailkeeper as scum only works in setup c3, where there are no mafia power roles and it would be impossible to do anything at night without revealing he is scum to the tracker surely on him. Also, I want elaboration on one of your reads, why is HeWhoSwims so scummy if Sky is town? I don't understand how you got to that conclusion. Discrediting the reads of a town member is not scummy, town members can be wrong and there is no real incentive for scum to go out of their way to ensure they aren't believed. Your opinions on both of these players seem to have come from nowhere and rely on flimsy evidence, right now you are my top scumread, especially since you came from Chardev's slot.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Eragon, you simply did more of what I disliked at first, making flawed theories with flimsy evidence to support them. I know playing bad is not a scumtell, but at this point it seems like you aren't realizing even obvious facts. For instance, your argument against UglyDuck happened after 577,in which I said that the only setup in which a jailkeeper fakeclaim could work was pretty much impossible. I don't understand why you would still suspect UglyDuck after that and bother making such a theory. Between Chardev(who I found suspicious for reasons stated earlier) and you, your slot just seems scummy.

[Completly Trustworthy]

You are being very defensive and not answering my questions. For instance, you have not further explained your read on HeWhoSwims or why you suspect UglyDuck so much, and are instead attacking me with another weak accusation. If Sky is town, we know we are in setup A2, something which there was a one/third chance of and I already said was possible. Many other people had this thought as well, that is why she was lynched. I don't see why it is so bad that I said that. This seems like something a scum player desperate to discredit their attacker would do. As for why I was so suspicious of Chardev, I think that 293 covers that well.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Eragon, can you give an ISO review of HeWhoSwims? I don't share your opinion and want to know why you think it is so likely he is scum. I'll be voting you for now since I think you are the best choice out of the three suspects for reasons explored in my earlier posts and case on Chardev.
VOTE: Eragon

[Completly Trustworthy]

Eragon, the way you are acting is weird and I can't understand where you are getting your reads. In 556, you criticized 17 of my posts and seemed to think I was in league with UglyDuck(which was a tinfoil theory you abandoned really quick). Then, you made conclusions about HeWhoSwims from 506,which is only one post. Why am I not as scummy as HeWhoSwims? Is it because I'm not a good mislynch candidate? Also, the logic used to suspect HeWhoSwims is bad, reads made by town members can be wrong, there is no need for scum to cast shade on them.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Eragon, you are once again being overly defensive by attacking me instead of explaining your feelings on HeWhoSwims. In addition, I do not claim that my case on Chardev is great, it just shows that my suspicion of his slot has been around for a while. I did not change my feelings on you suddenly. I townread your initial entrance to the game because of your unique opinions, but your behavior has been very scummy ever since.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Also, what would a no lynch accomplish Teacher? Wouldn't the scum just try to kill people who are not likely to be suspected like you and UglyDuck? That would just leave us with the same pool of suspects.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Finally, I am the doctor and protected Teacher night one, I will explain why I did that tomorrow since I'm sleepy.

[Completly Trustworthy]

I'd expect the scum to cc at this point, me and Teacher becoming locktown would be bad for them since it would leave only one mislynch left. If I'm right about Eragon being scum, then Papa Zito would be the likeliest to do that since HWS is probably not his teammate.
I protected Teacher night one because I figured that it was the best thing to do in both possibilities. If Duck was lying and happened to be scum, I would not want to guard him. If he was telling the truth, the jailkeeper claim and roleblocker would ensure the scum knew about the doctor in the setup, making him unlikely to be targeted. I figured that since Teacher was universally townread and had participated in the game more than other player, the scum would likely go for him, I was correct and stopped the kill.
I also protected Teacher night 2 as well because I thought Teacher was the more valuable player(Duck was almost certainly roleblocked on both nights, so I thought of him as a vt) and didn't want someone I knew was town dying in place of a player like Reckoner who was formally a suspect.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Teacher, why do you think HWS and Zito are scum? Can you show what made you suspicious of them being together when going through ISO's?

[Completly Trustworthy]

However, I can agree on lynching Zito since both of us believe he is scum.
VOTE: Papa Zito

[Completly Trustworthy]

UglyDuck, do you think that you stopped the nk? Sky was someone suspected during the end of day 1, trying to kill her would make little sense for the scumteam. Also, are you willing to vote for Zito?

[Completly Trustworthy]

Teacher, what about the voting patterns of HWS and Zito made you think they were a scumteam?

[Completly Trustworthy]

It is almost impossible that we are in setup C2 since UglyDuck is not dead. One reason that could explain why he has not been attacked yet is because the scum fear a doctor saving him. Also, in order for there not to have been a nk night one, Sky must have been attacked. However, why would the scum try to kill Sky over Duck if there was no doctor?
Of course, there is a possibility that I am scum and my team didn't kill n1 in order to claim doctor and have intentionally left UglyDuck alive to ensure a win in MyLo. However, as teacher said in 468, scum thrive in possibilites and the town should play on probabilities. What is more likely, me being the actual doctor or scum faking doctor?

[Completly Trustworthy]

Also, Teacher, I thought you had a case on Zito and HWS from VCA. I would like to see it so I can decide whether HWS or Eragon is Zito's teammate.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Response to Papa Zito's case:
I made 226 when I had not memorized the setups and therefore had no idea whether Ugly was likely faking or not.
229 was made when I had taken a look at the possible setups and noticed that jailkeeper was a bad fakeclaim, therefore I believed him.
After day 2 started, I believed that I had stopped the kill and knew that Sky was not guaranteed scum. Since I could not stop the lynch without claiming, which would not prove Sky's innocence as I stated in 482, I decided to ask people questions and put pressure on those I suspected of being scum. That was why i made the comment in 530 about Ugly potentially being a liar, I knew there could be a tracker-doctor setup and didn't want to give him a free pass. Even though I still believed him to be town, I wasn't going to rule out the possibility that we were in C3.
In 534, I questioned Reckoner because I thought he might be scum trying to lure out the doctor and tried to put pressure on him because I was wary of him just slipping under the radar all game because of his lazy playstyle.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Zito, why are you suspecting me instead of HWS and Eragon? As I explained in 713, there are essentially two possibilities now, setups C2 and A2.
In order for us to be in setup C2, the following must have happened:
I would have had to intentionally let the jailkeeper live two nights
I would have had to not have killed night 1(because why would sky be targeted?)
I would have had to risk Duck jailing me or my hypothetical scumbuddy, which would have probably gotten us lynched
I would have had to come up with the idea of not killing night one without teacher mentioning it(Teacher first mentioned the possibility in 453, which was on day 2)
With all this said, why are you so adamant in believing I am not the doctor while giving HWS and Eragon a free pass?

[Completly Trustworthy]

Teacher, can you review Zito and HeWhoSwim's Iso's and use VCA to make your case for them being a scumteam? I believe it is likely that is the case since I agree that 549 is towny and HWS has seemed like he's been trying to remain unnoticed in the background for a while. However, I would still like more evidence than just intuition and a few posts potentially being read into too much before making a final decision.

[Completly Trustworthy]

UglyDuck, please lynch Zito before going after Eragon. I think he is certainly scum and Eragon is possibly scum. I would be willing to vote Eragon tomorrow with enough evidence, but right now I want to ensure that a mislynch doesn't happen. I got suspicious of Eragon because of his playstyle and tinfoil theories before, but most of the time acting weird and making false statements is not a scumtell. My plan is to get Zito today and then debate over whether Eragon or HWS is his partner tomorrow. The very fact that Zito has not been hammered yet proves he is scum(at least in my eyes). With both teacher and me voting Zito, a scumteam of HWS and Eragon could have won the game by quickhammering. Since that hasn't happened yet, I am 100% sure Zito is not town and will not move my vote.

[Completly Trustworthy]

GG everyone, I learned a lot of lessons this game about how to play and thankfully managed to help the town win.
The scumteam did well, I only figured out who they were through process of elimination, not noticing scummy behavior from them.
Sorry for lurking near the end of day 3 Teacher, had rl issues.